Falconer gone now too. That really isn't surprising, as he is an actual Blairite.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
- Thread starter unchanged_lineup
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I don't care whether it was deliberate or not but his referendum performance was a disgrace. He betrayed a significant core of his support who wanted to remain.
Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
The prime minister's resigned. No-one knows who the next occupant of No 10 will be.
And today, some of the most senior figures in the Labour Party are trying to push their leader out too. There have been concerns about Jeremy Corbyn's performance for months and months. But it was his role, or lack of role, in the campaign to keep the UK in the EU, and his sacking of Hilary Benn in the middle of the night, that has given members of the shadow cabinet the final reasons to quit. Several have already gone; as many as half will be gone by the end of the day, I understand.
And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".
One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".
A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.
The documents show concern in Labour HQ and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says: "What is going on here?" Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.
Mr Corbyn has insisted publicly that he campaigned hard to keep the country in the EU and that he made a number of speeches around the country, and attended many campaigning events. But many shadow cabinet ministers believe his performance in the campaign has shown that he is simply not capable of leading the party. One senior figure told me: "People have just had enough and are embarrassed to be part of it." Jeremy Corbyn's team are adamant that he will stand again for the leadership, and they believe the party's members would back him again.
He has had persuasive and vehement backing from the party's members who he energised last summer. But as the Labour Party reels from Thursday's result, it is not clear that support will be as solid as it was. MPs report that some of their members are contacting them to say they've changed their minds about Mr Corbyn. We'll see. It's possible that within days, both of our two main political parties will be looking for a new leader.
A spokesman for the Labour party said: "The leaks of these emails within the Labour Party are self-evidently politically motivated. This is the action of people who want to de-stabilise the leadership by attempting to demonstrate negative activity in the leader's office.
"The leaks themselves show no such thing, simply demonstrating the views of those whose emails are quoted.
"On the process of letter writing, of course it is normal practice in politics that drafts are amended. Any communications in the name of the Leader of the Labour Party are authorised by the leader's communications team and ultimately by the leader himself .
"Both Jeremy and his team worked hard to deliver his message of remain and reform. Given that the Labour Party was the only party that delivered a majority vote for the remain campaign among its own supporters, the criticisms of Jeremy Corbyn make little sense."
Just like the remain camp underestimated the strength of feeling amongst leave supporters during the campaign, so do you now about the strength of feeling amongst remain supporters. Most of whom are young with minimal political affiliation either way.
Won't survive Watson turning on him. Looks like he'll go.
What Ubik is saying is that Labour voters in previously 'safe' Labour seats voted for Leave. Shows they're already losing a lot of support and to promise to overturn the referendum result would result in losing even more.
By the time the next election comes round they will have realised (surely) that the Leave campaign promises on immigration were out and out lies.
I think it depends on when the election is, if it's straight after the new Tory leader is installed and before the exit is negotiated, there's nothing to stop them just lying about it again. Plus, whatever Boris and his bunch do, Farage will always be around to stoke anti-immigrant sentiment with whatever UKIP now becomes. It'll be perfect for his "establishment stitch-up" routine.
That's not to say I don't think there's a way for the centre-left to salvage a way forward out of all this, I just think it requires a longer game than purely deciding to ignore the referendum result.
There is definitely a big gaping space for a credible 'progressive' party though.
Yeah, I think this is probably the likeliest explanation actually. By the looks of it, the potential candidates have a meeting with the NEC in the coming days, doubtful he wants to rock the boat.
Give it 4 months as the fallout of Brexit really bites and many of those will no longer be leavers.
In order to wrestle back control from Conservatives after so long in the deep wilderness I think Labour'd do what it takes.
Absolutely, just think it's hard to see how we get to it with the current state of the party system. Realignments do happen in politics and this referendum is a big enough event to trigger one, but it would be difficult to put together and even more difficult to prevent breaking apart. We'll have to wait and see I suppose, first step is for Labour to actually become a credible alternative government...
The disconnect between leadership (and other potential leadership) and the base is huge in Labour, bigger than for the UKIP, SNP, Lib Dems, and the Conservatives are split within both the base and leadership.
It sums up all quarters of the Labour Party that on the weekend following David Cameron throwing the hopes and futures of the young and educated in this country under a bus, and then shooting himself in the head, Labour still manages to dominate the headlines by loudly shitting itself to death next to him.
The Blairites are all leaving? No. Please. Come back.
Roll on the Chilcot Report.
Roll on the Chilcot Report.
This is what no one is talking about. Ten days.
Few people on my twitter suggesting that thats why Labour have moved so fast to oust Corbyn, because he's going to call for war crime charges for Blair.
Ugh.
The sooner this guy gets the hook, the better. We need a strong opposition party to keep the Tories in check and potentially reverse the madness going on in the country.
It is easier than listing them all and a lot more catchy than 'backstabbing, self-serving wankers'
I'm sick of these politicking cnuts within the party, they're no better than Boris. Several of them were prominent members of the remain campaign and clearly failed to win over the Labour voters so I hope they rule themselves out.
Can't see him resigning mainly because he's still got the backing of the unions and the membership. That alone will be enough for him to at least think it's worth carrying on until an early election or worst case be there when the party splits. Have to image(Although it's just a guess on my part) Corbyn and maybe more importantly the Unions(The members will go else where if Corbyn leaves)see this as a battle for the party future and more important than an upcoming election.
If Labour MPs can successfully resign a Left wing(Still think this part is massively important) Labour Leader who recently got elected with one of the biggest mandates in British history and backed heavily by the unions that's quite a win for the MPs and if they can do once then what's stopping them doing it again and again and again.
As for the Zoe Williams article it's decent but guardian writers(Well one but I'm sticking to it as it help my point) have a history of jumping the ship when the going gets tough.
Edit- I said the word important at lot there.
I think it's playing a part, but in no way wholly responsible. That referendum was a gift to many Labour MPs who've wanted to oust Corbyn since he became leader (more or less).
Have heard he will call for war crime charges as well, though.
I'd love to know who they think will win back all the disenfranchised voters who voted Leave. These defectors have all been calling them idiots and denying immigration is an issue.
But yeah we need a 'strong' leader who can throw out zingers against the tories at PMQS
But yeah we need a 'strong' leader who can throw out zingers against the tories at PMQS
Shadow attorney general gone now. Another one that was in "core group positive".
They do what every recent center/right Labour MP has done in the past which is to pandering to the disenfranchised voter by saying mildly pointless tough talking statements while appearing slightly xenophobic(Labour immigration coffee cup comes to mind)while at the same time giving a cheeky wink to the center/left which says ''come on you know we don't mean any of this, it's just we have to say to appeal to these idiots to get their votes'', thus appealing to no one.
If Corbyn really is planning to call for war crime charges then he's a bigger idiot than even I thought.
This will only disenfranchise the young even further. The one section of society to have solidly backed Remain and still be largely pro-Labour. Not that the alternative is any great shakes, but it's quite genuinely a literal omnishambles now.
Why would a coup that leads to a genuinely pro remain Labour Party disenfranchise the young? If they are switched on as everyone says (most young people didn't vote) they will realise that Corbyn has let them down badly. Personally I think this whole mess is an opportunity to form a credible opposition now the Tories are really on the ropes.
Not sure why?
Because they voted him in. With a record number of new memberships in the wake of the GE. And in a climate where Brexit was in part a (misguided) democratic revolt against the political elites and their perceived rejection of the average voter's views, I don't see how the Labour Party seeming to do the exact same thing, to one of the few sections of society that still largely support them, is going to suddenly ring in a new dawn of cohesive harmony. They never forgave Clegg for his "betrayal"
However much you/I/we may personally agree with ousting Corbyn, ideologically (or even tactically) the timing and manner of it looks terrible. Especially as this should be the perfect time to be grilling the backtracking bullshit of Gove, BJ & Farage, rather than creating another, self made, internal crisis, and ESPECIALLY (all caps) as there's no real stand out alternative to ring in this supposed new, strong, Labour dawn. Again, omni-shambles.
Last edited:
Love the way Hilary Benn said:
hmmmm what would i prefer a decent man who may not be the best leader, or a great leader who isnt a decent man? a decent man every time!
we've had loads of people who have been good leaders in charge of this country, but far to few decent men!
hmmmm what would i prefer a decent man who may not be the best leader, or a great leader who isnt a decent man? a decent man every time!
we've had loads of people who have been good leaders in charge of this country, but far to few decent men!
My friends who are Corbyn supporters say they will not forgive him for his no show during the referendum campaign.
A decent man who isn't a leader will never get elected so the point is moot.
sadly you are probably right, we will end with just another slug who knows how to work the media.
Then there's no reason to block him from another leadership ballot. Another vote is fine (albeit chaotic) but trying to force his outright resignation isn't, IMO. At the very least from a PR point of view.
I still think he will win but with a much smaller margin.
Another warmonger gone and we're still over a week away from Chilcot 
Corbyn may actually be so principled he'll fall on his sword for the good of the party.
Part of me thinks so. I don't think he'd want to destroy his party out of spite...which would ironically benefit his opponents.
If go as far as saying he's a decent man but not a decent politician.
He's more suited to a protest party than the main opposition.
It's a sadder reflection of politics than the man himself.