I think they're trying to fight back against the narrative and draw attention to the issue; I don't think any of them think they're completely making up the deficit.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think they're trying to fight back against the narrative and draw attention to the issue; I don't think any of them think they're completely making up the deficit.
It seems obvious to me. What would you do in Corbyn's position if the mainstream media were clearly and demonstrably biased against you and you found you had hundreds and thousands flocking to see you and not just on top of icecreams?
Probably resign.
This one is amazing on multiple levels
Come on. This is old (2013) and about marketing, not politics, but it might have relevance to a political campaign.
http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insigh...-influence-consumer-trust-in-advertising.html
There is a definite trend in the marketing world towards Word Of Mouth Online Marketing (WOMOM). Twitter and facebook (I guess - I don't do farcebook) are all about deciding who you want to "follow" or "like" (trust). It's not so dissimilar to word of mouth. In fact, in some social situations today, look around and see how many people are busy with "social media" rather than actually talking with each other.
And none of that overcomes the historically low favourability levels, the worse-than-Ed electoral results, the Labour-friendly media thinking him useless, and the MPs being in open revolt. He's the Black Knight in The Holy Grail. But he wants to turn Labour into a social movement, so we just come from a completely different angle.
Nice little unsolicited text gone 2am from Owen Smith's campaign there. Looking online I wasn't the only person to get one either.
"We are his media". I like that. Forget about Opinion polls,spin doctors,nutty professors, think tanks. Cut through all that and engage with what really matters. The people.
Owen Jones getting the treatment for doubting the cringey #WeAreHisMedia #!
I had one, and an email. I don't mind emails, but even Momentum (which I'm a member of) doesn't bother me by text.
Got to get in to politics somehow. Unless you find it funny that I'm suggesting Liverpool will be busy, in which case I'm not sure what is funny, it will be packed. I think knowing of around 15 going from outside of Liverpool is a fair old indicator as well.
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Owen Jones getting the treatment for doubting the cringey #WeAreHisMedia #!
He's done a blog on it - "Questions all Jeremy Corbyn supporters need to answer" https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/que...orters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.tlrzkv8ba
The conclusion:
It'll go down well.
I'm surprised that he has taken off his ideology hat and come to his senses. Don't think it will do much good at this point though.
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Sorry pal. Comrade Corbyn and Momentum do manage to draw crowds...quite a few in Leeds the other day....just the 'rammed' that made me chortle. Enjoy your visit.
Owen Jones getting the treatment for doubting the cringey #WeAreHisMedia #!
You may doubt its effectiveness but don't get why is it cringey?
That Owen Jones stuff has me wavering to be honest. I'm hoping that Smith can convince me because it'd be so much less stressful that way.
Paul Mason(Some what more positive) take on Labour future.
https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/labour-the-way-ahead-78d49d513a9f#.o19p6hnkz
https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/labour-the-way-ahead-78d49d513a9f#.o19p6hnkz
I've actually warmed to Smith a bit over the past week or so; his policies seem alright and far better than what the Tories are offering, and he's okay as a speaker. What puts me off him completely is the manner in which the whole thing's been conducted. Tories will rip him apart if he gets in, label him as a backstabber etc, and they'd have a point.
Finding it cringey is just my personal opinion. I find it small time, misguided and playing to the bizarre cult of (non) personality that surrounds Corbyn.
It's not so much the Tories ripping him apart that I'm worried about.
But I think it might be worth taking the chance on. In one year the party will have moved a long way to the left and I would consider that a victory.
My doubts are with whether Smith can make it stick but those doubts are getting more and more outweighed recently.
His interview posted on this page is fairly critical of Corbyn as a leader.
So Owen Jones finally on message for his paymasters. Maybe it's because his voice is not as unique anymore .
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#TinFoilHatTime
Come off it mate. If anything his problem is that he's too emotionally attached to the situation. You can tell he's distraught
The problem is I don't think Smith has better answers to any of those questions. I think Corbyn and his team should think hard about some of them, but I'll give my answers to a few:
How can the disastrous polling be turned around?
Labour is in the middle of a messy self-inflicted attempted coup. May is experiencing a new leader bounce. This Conservative government, which is incredibly divided and possesses a slender majority now has to negotiate the most challenging political decision of the last 50 years. The polling at the moment is alarming. But, you know, Remain was polling 60-40 this time last year.
Where is the clear vision?
What was the Conservative's clear vision? Security and stability through the utter turmoil of an EU referendum? What is their clear vision now? Brexit means Brexit.
I think Labour really needs to hammer home three key points: That they are the party of fairness, strong public services (in particular the NHS), and a post-neoliberal economy (I think they really need to change gear from trying to convince people that you can trust them to run the economy as it is, to a party that challenges the current economic status quo).
How are the policies significantly different from the last general election?
Not sure this matters at this stage. They've picked the best of Miliband's policies. Abandoned the shit (immigration mug, tomb stone). I mean Cameron spent years promising to match Labour's spending in opposition and then managed to pivot in 1-2 years to preaching austerity which took him into coalition.
What’s the media strategy?
Really shit
How would we deal with people’s concerns about immigration?
Owen's response to this is bizarre. He is well aware that opposition to immigration is generally higher in areas with below average immigration rates. If someone can explain to me how a migrant impact fund helps with this I'd love to know. Or should Labour just promise to throw money at areas that express the most concern about immigration?
Finally, I think Mason's analysis makes some important points Owen's doesn't - particularly that Labour needs to own its shifting identity (from the party of industrial workers to the party of the young, metropolitan salariat — from a party of the past to a party of the future.) I also agree with Mason that the continual targetting of Corbyn is not simply the result of his own mediocrity: there is a fear of the possibility of a genuinely left-wing leader becoming PM, however unlikely that is. If he was so shit that his failure was inevitable there wouldn't be the repeated and continual attacks from the media and some of his own MPs.
Nice response to it, I'd certainly agree on the policy front, on the proviso that they would actually have stuff ready if an election comes within the year (and this is where my doubts come to the fore, given McDonnell's economic advisory group doesn't sound very prolific, and several have left).
On immigration - it's true that in areas where relatively high levels of immigration are long established, opposition is lower. However, one of the more interesting results from the EU referendum was that, when you looked at the rate of change rather than the overall level, opposition to it was clearer. There's a graph somewhere...here we are:
On immigration - it's true that in areas where relatively high levels of immigration are long established, opposition is lower. However, one of the more interesting results from the EU referendum was that, when you looked at the rate of change rather than the overall level, opposition to it was clearer. There's a graph somewhere...here we are:
http://www.economist.com/news/brita...main-or-did-they-britains-immigration-paradox
OK that's interesting. So if the policy is geared around arrivals (which would make sense) it could genuinely help. And of course it might help with the general attitude to immigration if the public know such a fund exists.
The media strategy is my biggest concern, assuming Corbyn is going to win. The campaign has suggested he is completely caught up in this bubble of social media engagement and the 1000s of new members he has inspired (who don't actually do anything for the party). Whilst I don't share your hatred of Milne he clearly should be replaced for incompetence given the evidence of the last 6 months. Labour is never on the front foot in the press under Corbyn. Corbyn's PMQs appearances continue to be weak. This was especially galling with the first appearance against May as that essentially gave him a reset and a chance to reassess his tactics. But nope. The Thatcher tribute act destroyed him. I'm really glad someone like Owen Jones is pointing out how stupid #wearehismedia is. Echo chamber twativism is not the solution.
Finally Mason's article also offers some sensible solutions for uniting the PLP after a Corbyn victory. Hopefully they are heeded.
Excellent blog. What's the response been like?
We all hate the Sun. But it is pretty amusing seeing Danzcuk get bitten by it after this: https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/politics/745229/labour-mp-its-time-for-corbyn-to-wake-up/
How does the idiom go? If you lie down with dogs they'll rip your face off?
How does the idiom go? If you lie down with dogs they'll rip your face off?
Really surprised Owen Jones wrote that. I think a lot of people will come back down to earth after the next GE.
Owen Jones being the story rather than writing it. Everything that's wrong with journalism currently.
I love that the Owen Jones article mentions 'Smith' once and it isn't in reference to Owen.
Not even "damning" articles can justify that dullard as being the answer to anything.
Not even "damning" articles can justify that dullard as being the answer to anything.
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Hasn't helped that other journalists have bizarrely called him brave for writing the article
Feck you would thought they were talking about George Orwell. And not what is essentially a long winded @Ubik post(that's meant as a complement )
So ruddy bloody brave.
It's because he's seen as pro-Corbyn, despite the fact that he works for one of the most anti Corbyn rags around. Yes folks, the Graun is indeed a piece of neoliberal shite these days.
There's nothing brave about his article, it's just an article. Not even a particularly good one. The fact that somehow he's become relevant is exactly the problem.
I do think Jones is fairly perceptive and correct on the fact that a lot of Corbyn supporters seem to be getting wrapped up in their own base on social media, forgetting that to actually have a chance of winning anything, they need to appeal to precisely the sort of demographic who have nothing to do with social media.
I don't think this is anything that's exclusive to Corbyn, though. Up in Scotland, social media was dominated by Yes voters during the referendum, but it's still older people who tip the balance to Scotland just supporting a No vote.
Likewise, it's something that's already existed within Labour, and will continue to do so. I'd suspect Miliband had many more supporters online than Cameron in 2015 - I'd also suspect that plenty of them will now be supporting Smith. Should be come to power, I expect Smith's Labour will face a similar problem to Corbyn's - appealing mostly to younger, online voters who use social media (except the Corbyn or nothing ones), but struggling to gain a wider appeal among a Tory party which largely dominate the media at the moment. If Jones or others expect this social media problem to be in any way rectified by a new leader's appointment, I think they'll be very, very surprised.
The calling it "brave" stuff is also a bit silly and ridiculously exaggerated though; the exact sort of exaggeration Smith's supporters would laugh at Corbyn fans for whenever they talk about being under siege by the media or the rest of the party.
Don't get me wrong -- at this stage, I've almost started to not care about Corbyn. I just dislike this stuff based on principal.
Labour aren't going to win the next election. It doesn't matter who leads the party in that sense. This election is more about sorting out a three decade old ideological split within the party. More important than a GE in many respects, because this will decide the nature of the opposing argument for the next few generations.
As for the Guardian... I hate to say it, but I've been calling that paper crap for a very long time. It's the veneer or radicalism (and/or leftism), but no substance. When they get a chance they go running to the right as quick as any paper in the land. The only reason they're even considered somewhat lefist on the spectrum is because they are in terms of LGBT stuff, feminism, etc. But, and I add a disclaimer here*, LGBT/women rights are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Nevertheless, it allows the Graun to appear as a liberal voice amidst a sea of conservatism. It's bullshit, though, because the Guardian hasn't been liberal in a long time. Not on the things that actually matter, at least.
*Hugely significant for those people, obviously, and good luck to them. However, rather insignificant when contrasted against economic systems and modes of governance -- things which the apparatus of state has traditionally sought to regulate.