Our players are pussies, faggots and cnuts? Pick one!
Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."
- Thread starter Jacky Quacky
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah but a pep fan boi who has 0 experience in handling players and football management knows it all.
If you wait to be at 100% to play, you will never play.
I played at football for years, as winger, striker and dm (+150 official games)
I've been 100% fit only in the 10-15% of the games
I played at football for years, as winger, striker and dm (+150 official games)
I've been 100% fit only in the 10-15% of the games
This thread is just another proof of how unecessarily Jose start fictions in his teams. Now all of a sudden fans are turning on players and assuming the worse about them whereas a year ago they were dearly loved d and respected.
Had Mou done none his childish and stupid digs I the media no one would have been talking crap about our own players right now.
Right now the media will he looking to stick the sword in and further spiral things out of control.
There ar already factions of fans against some players all due to none other than Jose running his STUPID mouth in PUBLIC.
No one want to argue against Mou giving his players a bit of a sticking if they're mentally soft, the issue here is that it has to be done privately.
Also as the manager you find a way to offset work through these issues, not start creating factions and clicks among your squad. From the get go he HAS to stop what he's trying to pull off right now with his talks about some players being his trusted ones while the others half get under appreciated.
Fecking obvious formula heading for a clear disaster.
Had Mou done none his childish and stupid digs I the media no one would have been talking crap about our own players right now.
Right now the media will he looking to stick the sword in and further spiral things out of control.
There ar already factions of fans against some players all due to none other than Jose running his STUPID mouth in PUBLIC.
No one want to argue against Mou giving his players a bit of a sticking if they're mentally soft, the issue here is that it has to be done privately.
Also as the manager you find a way to offset work through these issues, not start creating factions and clicks among your squad. From the get go he HAS to stop what he's trying to pull off right now with his talks about some players being his trusted ones while the others half get under appreciated.
Fecking obvious formula heading for a clear disaster.
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He doesn't need to match his idiocy though.
I remember Fergie saying something similar about Saha.
The oversimplified reaction would be to shoot the messenger due to apologists not liking the message or look to discredit it on absolutely unrelated grounds but hey, I realize the truth smarts
Look around and see if any coach at any big club calls out players in the media for not playing through injury - on top of which, after a win. It's absurd and even more so to defend/spin it. There's a reason why Mou wears a club out in a short time
I get that people want to stick with the manager, but since when is dragging everything into public (if a Liverpool coach would do that he would be ripped to shreds on here for constantly making excuses) a good thing?
Seems like a really really unhealthy way of communicating with your subordinates.
Seems like a really really unhealthy way of communicating with your subordinates.
Dearly loved and respected? Lol. No United squad that finishes outside the top 4 is going to be dearly loved.
Don't buy the argument of them needing to look after themselves due to it being a short career. Most of these guys earn more in 1 week than i would take 5 years to earn. So even if their career ended tomorrow unless they have been frivolous with their money then they would be set for life anyway and can go on to something else within the game either as coaches , pundits or agents.
If you are a match going fan who pours whatever spare money you have at the end of your week to go and watch these play running through walls for the team is the least you should expect, obviously within reason.
Jose has called them out on it and it won't be nothing he has not said behind closed doors , if these little whiners can run to the press over shirt numbers, or heavy training schedules then he is fully in his rights to call them out over this. I find it refreshing rather than pandering to every little whim they have.
I am not saying he should not respect them and their bodies and they should play with legs hanging off but nowadays if they have a cold they refuse to play at the same time whilst posing on social media.
He has now made it clear what he expects and it is not him losing the plot, it's a good thing he understands what you need to to play for a club our size. Moyes never understood that and LVG certainly didn't.
If you are a match going fan who pours whatever spare money you have at the end of your week to go and watch these play running through walls for the team is the least you should expect, obviously within reason.
Jose has called them out on it and it won't be nothing he has not said behind closed doors , if these little whiners can run to the press over shirt numbers, or heavy training schedules then he is fully in his rights to call them out over this. I find it refreshing rather than pandering to every little whim they have.
I am not saying he should not respect them and their bodies and they should play with legs hanging off but nowadays if they have a cold they refuse to play at the same time whilst posing on social media.
He has now made it clear what he expects and it is not him losing the plot, it's a good thing he understands what you need to to play for a club our size. Moyes never understood that and LVG certainly didn't.
Mourinho is very intelligent and experienced manager. In fact, one need not even be experienced or very intelligent to know the possible effects comments like that can have and Mourinho surely knows the sound bites even his sneezing can create. So it was definitely a planned thing at least from his point of view and he surely knows that it can go wrong but he still went ahead with it. Why? My 2 cents on this are:
It is worth noting that it is not that he only commented negative. He praised some players of current squad, gave examples of previous club legends possibly playing through some hurt and talked what he expects from those who he thinks are not doing enough. It is a risky move but it is move which will tell him if the said players have it in them to take the criticism in their stride and try to stand up, to compete. If yes, it can have positive effect. If not, he will get rid of them. To win titles, only top names and talent in squad doesn't work. You need team spirit and a squad committed to do all they can for the cause. If we are having some good/talented players who can't do it, they will most likely never take us back to top. It will be same story as last 3 seasons. Better let Jose sort out the squad and see who are those who can give their all and then shape the squad by end of next summer window. Mourinho in my opinion also expects backing from management to let him shape squad and hence is not worried about criticizing players when needed.
From point of view of said players, I don't think Smalling or Shaw are players who 'don't care' about the club. It is more so that they are somewhat 'soft' and at this stage down in confidence. Smalling probably had Chelsea game on his mind and Shaw his injury from last season which is fair enough. Jose on other hand thought (assuming based on inputs from medical staff) that players can play through without worsening injuries.
Let's hope this doesn't end up in these 2-3 players getting shunned and hopefully it has positive effect on whole squad. Players should know that they are already playing for their future at the club.
It is worth noting that it is not that he only commented negative. He praised some players of current squad, gave examples of previous club legends possibly playing through some hurt and talked what he expects from those who he thinks are not doing enough. It is a risky move but it is move which will tell him if the said players have it in them to take the criticism in their stride and try to stand up, to compete. If yes, it can have positive effect. If not, he will get rid of them. To win titles, only top names and talent in squad doesn't work. You need team spirit and a squad committed to do all they can for the cause. If we are having some good/talented players who can't do it, they will most likely never take us back to top. It will be same story as last 3 seasons. Better let Jose sort out the squad and see who are those who can give their all and then shape the squad by end of next summer window. Mourinho in my opinion also expects backing from management to let him shape squad and hence is not worried about criticizing players when needed.
From point of view of said players, I don't think Smalling or Shaw are players who 'don't care' about the club. It is more so that they are somewhat 'soft' and at this stage down in confidence. Smalling probably had Chelsea game on his mind and Shaw his injury from last season which is fair enough. Jose on other hand thought (assuming based on inputs from medical staff) that players can play through without worsening injuries.
Let's hope this doesn't end up in these 2-3 players getting shunned and hopefully it has positive effect on whole squad. Players should know that they are already playing for their future at the club.
It especially good for Mou, as he has put himself out of the line of fire by shifting the blame on the players.
The story of the lone ballsy knight in shining armor(Jose) fighting the good fight against the hordes of moaning, spoilt, commitment lacking, overpayed pussies(Players), how romantic.
A good modern manager should be able to motivate his employees and win them over. Constantly lashing out at them in public won't get you anywhere in that regard.
JM is celebrating a cover-my-ass PR stunt to deflect from his inability to build a working unit, so that ppl don't question *his* performance and whether he's actually worth the money he's being paid.
Going by the reactions over here, he's currently having the success with it he's lacking on the pitch.
What a poorly written post.
Jose's comments haven't helped anyone or anything. His job is to get the absolute maximum out of his squad of players and now twice in quick succession he has decided to select individual players for criticism.
I hope I'm wrong but added to the bizarre complaining about him being 'homeless' it seems like the actions of someone going through the motions - already.
Let's say we've lost and conceded some sloppy goals there's one thing saying "defensively we were poor" that's fine, it offers a bit of protection to someone who may have made an individual error. But it's rare you see a manager say "'player x' was at fault for that goal' because we can all see it and there's no point humiliating the player further. This is the kind of thing that IMO should be happening on the training pitch and in the dressing room, nowhere else, certainly not in front of the TV cameras.
As manager of the football club, Jose has the power to drop Shaw, fine him, even sell him if he's that unhappy with him, so why do this when all it's going to do is create more controversy around United and irritate not just Shaw but potentially other squad members too.
I was delighted when we appointed Jose and I still feel he can do a lot for us but this kind of thing has to stop.
I hope I'm wrong but added to the bizarre complaining about him being 'homeless' it seems like the actions of someone going through the motions - already.
Let's say we've lost and conceded some sloppy goals there's one thing saying "defensively we were poor" that's fine, it offers a bit of protection to someone who may have made an individual error. But it's rare you see a manager say "'player x' was at fault for that goal' because we can all see it and there's no point humiliating the player further. This is the kind of thing that IMO should be happening on the training pitch and in the dressing room, nowhere else, certainly not in front of the TV cameras.
As manager of the football club, Jose has the power to drop Shaw, fine him, even sell him if he's that unhappy with him, so why do this when all it's going to do is create more controversy around United and irritate not just Shaw but potentially other squad members too.
I was delighted when we appointed Jose and I still feel he can do a lot for us but this kind of thing has to stop.
This is rancid man-management, but that's to be expected.
Firstly, you wonder exactly what he is getting out of saying to the press that he is only playing players that want to play. There's no reason to throw players under the bus here, and Jose is the only manager in (at least in man) top-level management that does so.
Secondly, for me there is no shame in a young player back from a serious injury managing injuries, or a player with a long standing reputation for niggling injuries managing injuries.
At Man Utd, most noticeably under Fergie's last few years, there is a demonstrable record of young players getting repeat injuries in quick succession: Rafael, Fabio, Welbeck, Anderson, Smalling, Jones. It could be that we're just unlucky, but thats a freakishly high number. I don't think Smalling and Shaw taking a more conservative approach to self-management is shameful, infact I think its prudent.
Firstly, you wonder exactly what he is getting out of saying to the press that he is only playing players that want to play. There's no reason to throw players under the bus here, and Jose is the only manager in (at least in man) top-level management that does so.
Secondly, for me there is no shame in a young player back from a serious injury managing injuries, or a player with a long standing reputation for niggling injuries managing injuries.
At Man Utd, most noticeably under Fergie's last few years, there is a demonstrable record of young players getting repeat injuries in quick succession: Rafael, Fabio, Welbeck, Anderson, Smalling, Jones. It could be that we're just unlucky, but thats a freakishly high number. I don't think Smalling and Shaw taking a more conservative approach to self-management is shameful, infact I think its prudent.
Like I said your logic is full of holes. At one side you say Jose doesn't know what it feels to be professional player and on the other hand you give your expert opinion. Funny you talking about apologists.
Somehow lessons on morality from a Barca fan always sound so hollow to me.
That'll always be the case when you listen to only what you want to, of course then it isn't really listening at all
"with players like Phil Jones, Michael Carrick and Wayne Rooney, it will be a possible mission"
Found that quite interesting.
Found that quite interesting.
The logic is pretty sound, Mou doesn't know what it is like to be a professional athlete yet seems to be the only coach out there scapegoating professional athletes for not playing through pain. Curious in your world of logic how Pep has anything to do with the point being made
And I appreciate the compliment but do not profess to be an expert, just someone who is indeed logical and have played organised sport for many years
I'll ignore the fan who prefers managers to tell their players to act like an empty plastic bottle is a grenade and try to play the referee at every opportunity.
Mou has obviously said this behind close doors but is still getting shit from fans for playing Blind or Rojo over Shaw and even players brothers are slating him for it. Same goes for Miki, so much shit has been thrown at Mou from all angles for these decisions & especially for not using Miki.
Now everyone knows & it's up to the players to respond.
Definately the right manager to give some players a kick up the backside. These rumoured players are quite likeable however so I hope they rise to it.
His original Chelsea & Inter teams were freaks, hardly took a game off and they all looked like monsters. Did they enforce tighter PED testing since around 2010 (since the whole Fuentes scandal), because most teams seem more human now.
Last year everyone was raving and overexcited about Martial and his potential especially after the season he had. Yet here we are with people trying to rationalize Mou erratic behavior by giving up on the lad and sticking into him over imaginary poor attitude. We have people failing to show patience at a 21 year old players who just came from an horrific leg break injury.
These are the sort of things happening because Mourinho just couldn't help but have public digs at his own players. Fecking petty.
I'm with Jose, if people aren't prepared to put themselves on the line for the team they can piss off
Yeah, saying he doesn't want to play is definitely reaching.
I feel uncomfortable in hearing Mourinho speaking publicly about players. surely this must be done behind closed doors. mind you, Klopp did it with Sturridge and, apparently, Klopp is the new footballing god.
It's really unnecessary. Poor man management, that's how he lost the dressing room at Chelsea.
Yes, while taking the dirty laundry public might not be desirable for any club, we must consider the following
1) Jose's reasons for doing just this. Considering his history, it's a risky move, but he is not daft so he must have good reasons which i think is:
2) He wants to get the attention of the fans. Now this is just speculation, but with how things have been the last years there is good reason to believe there is some bad attitudes in our squad. With this attitude there could also be some power play and if the players would get the idea they could just don't give a feck and let the managers take the fall we would have a monumental problem on our hands.
Fergie always demanded 100% of his players, and fell out with some big ones because of it. Now, granted that Joses methods are a bit different, but the end goal is the same. He wants 100% of his players and hanging them out to dry in public is just his way of going about it. It might cause a ruckus, but it's better than the alternative. If we ostracize yet another manager because he can't get these overpaid bunch of superstars to perform on the pitch, then we send the message that these particular players are bigger than the managers and bigger than the club itself.
If the fans suddenly turned on Jose, what then? Yet another round on the merry-go-round of switching managers? When it comes to Jose, everyone seems to think that history is bound to repeat itself, but his trophy haul speaks for itself and we also have to keep in mind that his to former employers were lead by men who are not far from being insane.
Edit: Also, we all know Fergie would regularly tear players a new arsehole in the dressing room. REALLY slam them in front of the other players. This is fine, but taking some pretty thinly veiled criticism public is somehow reprehensible. I just don't get it
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The over the top protection of players is something that really irritates me about modern day Football. Why should managers cover for players who're shirking their responsibilities and using small niggles as an excuse to hide when the going gets tough? These are heavily remunerated professionals that are supposed to be playing at the pinnacle of world Football and instead they're hiding.
I also find it humourous that people seem to be so protective of players who're old enough and bold enough to take a hard stance when they're negotiating their remuneration package; but suddenly they're young, marshmellowy, shrinking violets when the manager calls them out for their lack of professionalism. You can't have it both ways - if you're insistent on being paid the salary of a top class professional the club is well within its rights to treat you like a top class professional and call you out when you're neglecting your responsibilities. If Shaw wants to take a 90% pay cut and be treated like a talented, but mentally fragile reserve player with a bright future, then I'm sure the club will be more than accommodating. Likewise I'm sure West Brom will be happy to offer Smalling an escape route on half his salary is he isn't up for the fight required at a club like United (assuming these two as reported are part of the problem).
Our poor results are in the public domain and our manager is the one who will take the vast majority of the flak and will pay the ultimate price when things go wrong (as we've already seen this season), so why shouldn't the poor actions of the squad be highlighted also? I'd be going several steps further than Mourinho if I were managing the club, but it's a good start.
If we're happy to have a squad and club mentality where the players are bigger than the manager then fair enough; employ a patsy who will protect the players and watch them stab him in the back the second things get tough (as we've already seen with newspaper leaks). A mentality that you regularly see at places like Chelsea/City and have seen corrupt United since Fergie retired.
I also find it humourous that people seem to be so protective of players who're old enough and bold enough to take a hard stance when they're negotiating their remuneration package; but suddenly they're young, marshmellowy, shrinking violets when the manager calls them out for their lack of professionalism. You can't have it both ways - if you're insistent on being paid the salary of a top class professional the club is well within its rights to treat you like a top class professional and call you out when you're neglecting your responsibilities. If Shaw wants to take a 90% pay cut and be treated like a talented, but mentally fragile reserve player with a bright future, then I'm sure the club will be more than accommodating. Likewise I'm sure West Brom will be happy to offer Smalling an escape route on half his salary is he isn't up for the fight required at a club like United (assuming these two as reported are part of the problem).
Our poor results are in the public domain and our manager is the one who will take the vast majority of the flak and will pay the ultimate price when things go wrong (as we've already seen this season), so why shouldn't the poor actions of the squad be highlighted also? I'd be going several steps further than Mourinho if I were managing the club, but it's a good start.
If we're happy to have a squad and club mentality where the players are bigger than the manager then fair enough; employ a patsy who will protect the players and watch them stab him in the back the second things get tough (as we've already seen with newspaper leaks). A mentality that you regularly see at places like Chelsea/City and have seen corrupt United since Fergie retired.
A dressing down of our current squad is wholly necessary.
Leaving aside the last season, Mourinho has been a very good man-manager. I would trust him at this stage and believe that there is a very good reason for doing so. Maybe he knows this will fire up Shaw and Smalling, while also sending a message to others.
Scapegoating after a convincing 3-1 win.
Appreciate you can only beat what's in front of you but plenty more teams will go to Swansea this season and win comfortably. They are bottom because they have been the worst team in the League, well on a par with Sunderland. So it should have been a walk in the park, and it was. Just because we won doesn't make Jose's comments acceptable.
And the final season at Madrid
Voicing concerns over the media is risky but it has its uses. In a settled side with ample strength in depth it will push the ‘guilty’ players to work harder. Also supporters tend to be the sentimental ignorant types who treat players like some flawless super beings. Under such circumstances it is only fair for the manager to give them a nudge of what’s going on to pave the way for these player’s departure. SAF did that in numerous occasions including with Ince, Beckham, RVN and Rooney.
I think we need to distinguish between SAF and the rest (Moyes, Mou and LVG). SAF was untouchable. Players knew that if they clash swords with the boss then they will be out irrespective of their status or how many players they could lure into their revolt. The others do not have that luxury. Players know that if they don’t like the manager then all they have to do is not qualify to the CL. The manager will end up sacked and another manager will come who will probably use a clean slate mentality adding mileage to their United career.
So here’s my opinion. I am one of those who don’t like managers to air their dirty laundry. I believe that if a player isn’t pulling the same rope then I believe that he first loses his first team place and then he’s shown the door. I also question the timing TBH. Unless Mou has 2-3 new deals in January which will allow United to live comfortable without these two players then humiliating Smalling and Shaw, the way he did, is dangerous. Howeveras said I also acknowledge that this strategy has its uses. It can push players to sort up their shit + it prepares the fans for what to come.
I think we need to distinguish between SAF and the rest (Moyes, Mou and LVG). SAF was untouchable. Players knew that if they clash swords with the boss then they will be out irrespective of their status or how many players they could lure into their revolt. The others do not have that luxury. Players know that if they don’t like the manager then all they have to do is not qualify to the CL. The manager will end up sacked and another manager will come who will probably use a clean slate mentality adding mileage to their United career.
So here’s my opinion. I am one of those who don’t like managers to air their dirty laundry. I believe that if a player isn’t pulling the same rope then I believe that he first loses his first team place and then he’s shown the door. I also question the timing TBH. Unless Mou has 2-3 new deals in January which will allow United to live comfortable without these two players then humiliating Smalling and Shaw, the way he did, is dangerous. Howeveras said I also acknowledge that this strategy has its uses. It can push players to sort up their shit + it prepares the fans for what to come.
I didn't say it was acceptable because we won. I'm saying he obviously didn't say it to scapegoat after the match because we had a convincing victory.
He called out players who don't have a "warrior" culture if you will and there is nothing wrong with it. For too long have we seen our squad detiorate to such a poor level, where we mentally went from being Champions to whiney little kids who want their ego protected and focus on social media more than their own conditioning.
Jose's comments weren't just acceptable, they were overdue as far as I'm concerned.
Agree to disagree here. He needs to take a look at his coaching too.
Valencia played the second half vs City with a broken arm. Is that going too far?