Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."

[whatagoodname]

And it is one of the reasons why public shitting on players is bad.

Fans and media don't know shit properly and immediately those players get bashed on. What's the point other than making more negativity and toxic atmosphere everywhere?

spot on..

I know a few have said opposition supporters are criticising Jose, so he must be right.. that's just completely not true. If you flipped the situation and jose was at liverpool with the same situation you'd be taking the piss and tearing him to shreds.

I'm actually surprised so many have bought into that pseudo machoism rhetoric of mentality/toughness etc. There may be a portion of that, but alot of that is driven from the top. I.e. Jose.

 

[Gatti33]

And it is one of the reasons why public shitting on players is bad.

Fans and media don't know shit properly and immediately those players get bashed on. What's the point other than making more negativity and toxic atmosphere everywhere?

The point is that the players at this club have had an easy ride for the past four years and it's about time the took responsibility for what is happening! Can you imagine phoning your boss at work and telling you don't feel like coming to work today! For the money players get paid the least they can do is give their all.

 

[The United]

We need to buy players with the United mentality. Not just "good" players.

Martial strikes me as being very weak mentally. Threw a hissy fit over Zlatan taking his number 9 when he should be honored to wear Giggs' iconic number 11. Besides all that, it should be about the crest on the front.

A lot of people are slating Jose for keeping Mkhitaryan out of the team and isolating Schweinsteiger. But has it ever occured to you guys that those guys don't have the right attitude in training? Schweinsteiger still lives in Germany! Mkhitaryan picked up a little knock on international duty and milked it probably. Same goes for Shaw and Smalling if Jose's comments are anything to go by.

Seriously, the likes of Ronaldo would play with one leg hanging off. We need fighters.

I couldn't give a toss who Mourinho gets rid of, to be honest. As long as he does it with the intention of benefiting the team and winning trophies. Yes, he sold De Bruyne and Lukaku at Chelsea... but he still won the Premier League. And would have turned it around at Chelsea if they didn't sack him.

About martial, well how the hell you concluded that he is weak mentally? Because he lost a number? Ronaldo constantly threw a fist when he got tackled. Is he mentally weak too?

You only have to look at how martial played for us last season. Came in late sub in a very first game for us, banged one of the best goals in a derby match against pool. Then he scored lots and lots of important goals while being ice cold. And the FA cup semi final goal etc. Mentally weak players can't do things like that.

This is beyond ridiculous with people having a chance to say shit about own players who they don't like. And, people talking about players's attitude. Well, yeah jose has a perfect attitude himself.

If his method works, that would be great with us spending another 500m to replace some of the 'weak' players in 3 years. If it does not, well....

 

[Varun]

The point is that the players at this club have had an easy ride for the past four years and it's about time the took responsibility for what is happening! Can you imagine phoning your boss at work and telling you don't feel like coming to work today! For the money players get paid the least they can do is give their all.

Why does he need to resolve this via the media? In your analogy, your boss would give you a bollocking on the phone or in his office. He wouldn't call everyone in the workplace to a common place and tell them you're a weakling.

 

[The United]

The point is that the players at this club have had an easy ride for the past four years and it's about time the took responsibility for what is happening! Can you imagine phoning your boss at work and telling you don't feel like coming to work today! For the money players get paid the least they can do is give their all.

This is jose mourinho who is some successful manager and nothing like a pussy.

If he thinks that some players are behaving like shit, well freeze them out, ship them out when he can without going on public.

And you think going on public would help somehow that these players will perform? If anything, you would lose the dressing room pretty fast because no one likes to get that kind of shit. And there is a BIG proof that it happened to him and another good squad just last season if you want to look at.

Thats with assuming what jose accusing them of is even remotely true which is a point people are forgetting. He could be ranting for the sake of it himself which he has been doing that for last few years.

 

[whatagoodname]

The point is that the players at this club have had an easy ride for the past four years and it's about time the took responsibility for what is happening! Can you imagine phoning your boss at work and telling you don't feel like coming to work today! For the money players get paid the least they can do is give their all.

Yes. it's called a sick day.

 

[KM]

What happened with klopp and sturridge was completely different though. In terms of context and situation..

Having said that i still didn't love that klopp said it.

You keep on saying that, but how is it different?

Jürgen Klopp has told Daniel Sturridge he must start to play through the pain barrier to address the problems that have blighted the Liverpool striker’s career. The manager said Sturridge needed to learn “what is serious pain or what is only pain”.

I'm not sure why he has criticised Smalling and Shaw though? The fact that they're also unavailable for England means that they're legit injured. Shaw really needs to tell his brother to keep his mouth shut though, doesn't really help his case.

 

[whatagoodname]

You keep on saying that, but how is it different?


I'm not sure why he has criticised Smalling and Shaw though? The fact that they're also unavailable for England means that they're legit injured. Shaw really needs to tell his brother to keep his mouth shut though, doesn't really help his case.

You have to read his full quote in context. Basically he kept on getting asked about him, and he said that he had a niggle and he'll miss. That he's a really good player and that's why people keep on asking, but he needs to learn the difference between pain, and an injury.. And that we need to be patient with him because it was new training etc.

so the difference was that he was prompted about sturridge continuously, he didn't just throw players under the bus without being asked a specific question after winning a game.

And there was lots of positivity tempered into his whole comment. (i still didn't like what he said btw)

Klopp can be absolutely ruthless, but he does it behind the scenes. Sakho is the best example of that. He has barely said a word publicly about the situation.

If he does criticise players in public, it's always balanced by positivity. Mane can do better because he's so talented.. etc etc.

More often than not he'll take the blame though, Moreno, migs are the best examples of this.

 

[KM]

You have to read his full quote in context. Basically he kept on getting asked about him, and he said that he had a niggle and he'll miss. That he's a really good player and that's why people keep on asking, but he needs to learn the difference between pain, and an injury.. And that we need to be patient with him because it was new training etc.

so the difference was that he was prompted about sturridge continuously, he didn't just throw players under the bus without being asked a specific question after winning a game.

And there was lots of positivity tempered into his whole comment. (i still didn't like what he said btw)

Klopp can be absolutely ruthless, but he does it behind the scenes. Sakho is the best example of that. He has barely said a word publicly about the situation.

If he does criticise players in public, it's always balanced by positivity. Mane can do better because he's so talented.. etc etc.

More often than not he'll take the blame though, Moreno, migs are the best examples of this.

Alright, thanks for providing context.

 

[Ahmed87]

Was that really necessary!? Why couldn't he just say those things to them in front of their teammates, instead of publicly accusing them of not having the team's best interests at heart? Would that really solve anything?
You'd think he would've learned from his last year at Chelsea. Alienating your players and making them look like the enemy in public won't really help. You're the manager. You're the one responsible for motivating the players, guiding them, making sure they give their all for the team. That's part of his job and I have to say he doesn't seem willing to do it at the moment.

 

[whatagoodname]

Alright, thanks for providing context.

Clearly i'm not a mourinho fan btw. Never have been and would hate him to be the manager of the club i supported.

And yes. i know he's one of the best in the world etc.. there's just not much to like otherwise, zero joy.

 

[KM]

Clearly i'm not a mourinho fan btw. Never have been and would hate him to be the manager of the club i supported.

And yes. i know he's one of the best in the world etc.. there's just not much to like otherwise, zero joy.

Being a Liverpool fan, I wouldn't expect you to like Mourinho btw, but you make some few valid points.

 

[RedChip]

With his comments he could also be praising Pogba for playing right after getting that ankle injury.

Yeah, thought that too.

 

[ti vu]

Was that really necessary!? Why couldn't he just say those things to them in front of their teammates, instead of publicly accusing them of not having the team's best interests at heart? Would that really solve anything?
You'd think he would've learned from his last year at Chelsea. Alienating your players and making them look like the enemy in public won't really help. You're the manager. You're the one responsible for motivating the players, guiding them, making sure they give their all for the team. That's part of his job and I have to say he doesn't seem willing to do it at the moment.

LVG did that in front of the team. Guess what? It has been leaked and LVG took the blame for it, while the same criticized players seem to ignore instructions and carry on... then LVG lost his job... and we arrive at this episode where players again going behind the management to leaking affair to the press to further their agenda...

Some of very good posts, people should look at, in this thread https://www.redcafe.net/threads/its-not-the-players-mentality-is-top-down.423450/page-4

 

[Ahmed87]

LVG did that in front of the team. Guess what? It has been leaked and LVG took the blame for it, while the same criticized players seem to ignore and carry on... then LVG lost his job...

Some of a very good post people should look at in this thread https://www.redcafe.net/threads/its-not-the-players-mentality-is-top-down.423450/page-4

I just don't see how talking about it in public will solve the problem! Also do you think the players would be able to defend themselves? It'd be like signing a transfer request.

 

[The United]

LVG did that in front of the team. Guess what? It has been leaked and LVG took the blame for it, while the same criticized players seem to ignore instructions and carry on... then LVG lost his job... and we arrive at this episode where players again going behind the management to leaking affair to the press to further their agenda...

Some of very good posts, people should look at, in this thread https://www.redcafe.net/threads/its-not-the-players-mentality-is-top-down.423450/page-4

You are missing the point here. People will leak especially when you don't get result and your manager is being an idiot in public.

LVG lost his job for basically shit and not being the standard of what the club expected. Don't think too much or don't complicate too much.

Did you blame players for moyes's saking too?

 

[Gatti33]

Yes. it's called a sick day.

Was shaw injured though? it seems like he could of and would of played but didn't feel like it.

 

[whatagoodname]

Was shaw injured though? it seems like he could of and would of played but didn't feel like it.

But this is just all innuendo and conjecture though and why i disagree with Mourinho taking this public. No one knows if shaw was hurt enough to play outside of the medical team and within those walls.

If your medical team deemed him fit to play, mou should just drop him, play him in the U23s and sell him. If he's beyond mourinho's standards, do it. It's what we've done with Sakho and no one's questioned klopp on that even though Sakho was one of the most loved players.

But if he was legitimately hurt, you now have the majority of the fan base calling him a spoilt soft footballer.

 

[ti vu]

I just don't see how talking about it in public will solve the problem! Also do you think the players would be able to defend themselves? It'd be like signing a transfer request.

Problem is players did go to the press first and their associates know more and meddle with the dressing room affair more they should be allowed to... Players defend themselves by improving their performance on the pitch. Clash between management vs player, players should find new clubs. Pep vs Eto'o, Zlatan, Yaya Toure, SAF vs Keane, Beckham, RVN... to avoid create environment like Real Madrid and Chelsea where players can bypass the mangers to higher up and players hold more power than the manager...

You are missing the point here. People will leak especially when you don't get result and your manager is being an idiot in public.

LVG lost his job for basically shit and not being the standard of what the club expected. Don't think too much or don't complicate too much.

Did you blame players for moyes's saking too?

SAF used similar antic in the public before against the rebellious players. Was he an idiot? We went 3 years without the league title, did our dressing room affair got leaked as often back then as it has since SAF's retirement?

You missed the point. The poster I replied simply said to question a player before the team and make him improve for the team. LVG did just that and we all know how these same players reacted. They felt humiliated and proceeded to ignore his instructions... So been there, done that... So here now is a different approach

Blame Moyes for being clueless as he is, but the players are no saints for the infamous leaked team sheets and tactics before games. 2 wrong does not make one right.

 

[The United]

Problem is players did go to the press first and their associates know more and meddle with the dressing room affair more they should be allowed to...

SAF used similar antic in the public before against the rebellious players. Was he an idiot? We went 3 years without the league title, did our dressing room affair got leaked as often back then as it has since SAF's retirement?

You missed the point. The poster I replied simply said to question a player before the team and make him improve for the team. LVG did just that and we all know how these same players reacted. They felt humiliated and proceeded to ignore his instructions... So been there, done that... So here now is a different approach

Blame Moyes for being clueless as he is, but the players are no saints for the infamous leaked team sheets and tactics before games. 2 wrong does not make one right.

We know SAF is an emotional guy and even then he hardly went on about stuff like that in public.

Did he do that kind of things like 4 -5 times in 3 months period?

It is again back to my point being people bringing up the great man's shit which he did probably no more than 10 times in 26 years with us to excuse the current manager.

Irony is that one of his biggest strengths was protecting his squad no matter what. But it does not suit some people's agenda here. So let's bring up the other stuff right?

Also if players can't even handle it withing dressing room as you said, you think they would with the manager going in public? What a flawed logic?

 

[whatagoodname]

SAF used similar antic in the public before against the rebellious players. Was he an idiot? We went 3 years without the league title, did our dressing room affair got leaked as often back then as it has since SAF's retirement?.

Honest question, did Ferguson really ever come out and question whether players wanted to play for the club? or basically call them soft in the media?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think it's understandable that Shaw might be hesitant to play through an injury. He's had a frustrating couple of years with injuries so if playing means risking aggravation it's fair enough.

If Mourinho's digging him out for that I think it suggests poor man management, different players have different needs.

His brother was calling Jose out for not picking him as he was fit. Now Shaw doesn't want to play.

 

[ti vu]

We know SAF is an emotional guy and even then he hardly went on about player in public.

Did he do that kind of things like 4 -5 times in 3 months period?

It is again back to my point being people bringing up the great man's shit which he did probably no more than 10 times in 26 years with us to excuse the current manager.

Irony is that one of his biggest strengths was protecting his squad no matter what. But it does not suit some people's agenda here. So let's bring up the other stuff right?

Also if players can't even handle it withing dressing room as you said, you think they would with the manager going in public? What a flawed logic?

I can't talk about when SAF didn't have full control of our dressing room and club and had to fight against the drinking culture and player power. Cantona had a special status as turning point for a reason beside his footballing ability.

Honest question, did Ferguson really ever come out and question whether players wanted to play for the club? or basically call them soft in the media?

Saha for not playing when feeling a bit of pain... Rooney handed transfer request which Rooney camp denied... Stam passed it (later admitted he made grave mistake letting go when he did)... till this day the Tevez saga (not committed to stay at the club)...

 

[The United]

I can't talk about when SAF didn't have full control of our dressing room and club and had to fight against the drinking culture and player power. Cantona had a special status as turning point for a reason beside his footballing ability.

Well then, don't bring him into this situation.

 

[The United]

Honest question, did Ferguson really ever come out and question whether players wanted to play for the club? or basically call them soft in the media?

Idk, he might but I am sure not often as much as jose in 3 months.

Because he would ship them out really quick. Was it a very effective way to handle the dressing room and gain players's focus?

Well, we know the answer.

 

[ti vu]

Well then, don't bring him into this situation.

I meant you can ask others. Hee did clash with player power and if not for the club backing history would have been different. The famous SAF rant as Aberdeen manager even when victory is theirs.

So putting context you compare a new team vs a seasoned well established team with a sovereign manager. The latter SAF's team is clean one with few occasional problem. This team right now is back logged with problem from previous 2 managers who created the mess

 

[whatagoodname]

Saha for not playing when feeling a bit of pain... Rooney handed transfer request which Rooney camp denied... Stam passed it (later admitted he made grave mistake letting go when he did)... till this day the Tevez saga (not committed to stay at the club)...

aren't these more examples of him being ruthless?

I don't remember him publicly shaming them whilst they were at the club? If anything i thought he looked after Saha?

 

[whatagoodname]

Idk, he might but I am sure not often as much as jose in 3 months.

Because he would ship them out really quick. Was it a very effective way to handle the dressing room and gain players's focus?

Well, we know the answer.

Yeah exactly. He wanted to stamp his authority on the dressing room and there isn't a better way.

 

[FCBarca]

What a lot of crock and let me tell you if those guys he's calling out are not prepared to listen to one of the most successful managers ever. Then they don't deserve to be playing at a club like Manchester United. What the feck does it matter if he played pro or not? There are plenty top pros that have made shambolic managers. Look across to London there is another legendary manager over there who never competed at a high level. Disclaimer before anybody brings Fergie into it he was actually a very good player albeit not a top international.

Only that someone who has never been a pro athlete can ever know what it is like to be one much less what it means to play or not play with pain

Managers who call players out in the press are spineless irrespective of what their resume may reveal but to scapegoat them for not playing through pain? Laughable

 

[Bobcat]

Why are some of you scared about what Mourinho is saying? As the players might want to leave?

They are lucky to be here not the other way round. If you can't take the heat go and play elsewhere. Simple.

This is spot on. Would people rather we keep on as we have the last years and repeat the same pattern? I could imagine how it goes

Players not giving it their all ---> Poor results --> Manager gets under pressure --> Manager get sacked --> Back to step one

Instead now we might see
Manager calling out players ---> Some dissent in the dressing room --> Some rotten eggs might leave --> Squad morale and attitude improves --> Better results

Do people seriously believe Jose is calling players out simply for the sake of being confrontational? Jose might be a lot of things, but hes not stupid and despite knowing what a hostile dressing room can do to him, he still chooses to take the hard path here. I firmly believe we have an attitude problem in our squad and him setting out to fix that is the only right thing to do.

It might not be pleasant, and we might get a media circus, some players leaving and some shit flinging, but if that what it takes then so be it. Fergie had no problem fecking off superstars (Ruud, Beckham, Stam) when their attitude was not in the line whit the clubs ambition and it should be no different under Jose.

 

[The United]

I meant you can ask others. Hee did clash with player power and if not for the club backing history would have been different. The famous SAF rant as Aberdeen manager even when victory is theirs.

Yeah that's that and there is chelsea board backing jose last season.

 

[ti vu]

aren't these more examples of him being ruthless?

I don't remember him publicly shaming them whilst they were at the club? If anything i thought he looked after Saha?

When the comment about Saha seemed to refuse to play with the most minor of pain was when SAF decided to give up on Saha.

Yes SAF is ruthless, but not to forget he's sneaky to ship the blame to the player by going publicly to get support on his side while marginalizing and then ship the player out. He can be swift with his move due to he earned the control of the club as well as the support of the board/ higher up.

In Tevez case, at time the narrative SAF gave was Tevez side stalled the negotiation. While Tevez side told a complete different story that United under SAF instruction doesn't give an offer matched what originally agreed when the loan deal struck.

Similarly is Pogba's departure. SAF promiseed playing time but didn't fulfill. Then Pogba signed agreement with Juventus then Pogba was given some scrappy minutes as last ditch effort. The narrative was first publicly given was Pogba signed for Juventus long ago. As we found out the promise went back further and Pogba had to the right to be concerned as in all that time Scholes came out of retirement, Park Rafael, Cleverley Anderson was tried as the central midfielders.

Yeah that's that and there is chelsea board backing jose last season.

Many accounts agree that Chelsea board didn't back Mourinho last season: Pedro was not his signing, Falcao was not his priority forward signing, didn't get his CB signing, get a LB he didn;t want neither... First in the transfer windows, then when the dressing room out break.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

He won the title 2 years ago, and ran the team into ground the season after. There was plenty of public player "motivation" from him in that season, too. Look where that got him...



You may understand this forum as an echo chamber for opinions that align with your own. I don't.
I can respect Mourinho's past credentials while still voicing my displeasure about his antics, and his habit of blaming everybody and the world but himself, when things aren't going his way.

Why does he need to resolve this via the media? In your analogy, your boss would give you a bollocking on the phone or in his office. He wouldn't call everyone in the workplace to a common place and tell them you're a weakling.

He might have tried to do it in private, but Shaw's brothers little outburst has brought everything into the open.

 

[jojose]

Its strange because had Shaw / Smalling / Mhiki just been omitted from the squad without explanation, everybody would be demanding an explanation. People of criticised players for being injured etc in the past. I've said before that most of our players are pussies. Absolute faggots. Players have pulled out with a bit of cold and minor injuries. I have no issues with our manager calling them out. Atleast we know who is willing to dig deep and put themselves out for their multi million pound salaries.

Some of the cnuts want to be a United player and go through the motions of being one. They think because they play for us they have made it. They only make it at United when your a key player in double and treble winning seasons. Taking Rooney and Carrick oout for past achievements, non of the current lot are anywhere near earning the title of being a United player. Mst of that has nothing to do with ability. Technical ability wise this squad is up there with other great squads we have had. WHen you compare size of hearts and bollox though, they are some way short.

If they cant handle our manager saying they pulled out with injury they cant handle the pressure, expectation and the requirement to be at your best every week against game raising bastards. If they cant do that, regardless of how good they are (and Luke Shaw is very very very good) they are not going to succeed at Man Utd

 

[::sonny::]

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I think what is clear now and this has been reported by a lot of people that there is a lot of shit going on at the club behind the scenes. Again while it seems like saying stuff in public won't help us but it's not like keeping it inside has helped us in anyway either. Jose has always been a manager who is either adored or absolutely hated by his players and while this could get ugly it's a risk that had to be taken.

 

[golden_blunder]

It's only been 11 games in and he's already moaned like 5 or 6 times about players and publicly slated them. How are people finding this acceptable.

It was only a month ago I was defending Mou on his Shaw comments and dressing it up as him trying to toughen up the kid but a month later he's had a few more public slating of his players.

In a space of a month I went from trying to rationalise Mou comment about Shaw to downright being already fed up with his public digs at his OWN players.

If an outsider like me can get fed up of this, what do you think the people who are actually getting constantly humiliated publicly by their own manager feel.

Again only 11 games in and already countless public shaming of his own players.

Sigh.

On the flip side, it's only 11 games in so why don't you STFU, and let the man work. It's clear you don't like him

 

[Smores]

I just don't see how talking about it in public will solve the problem! Also do you think the players would be able to defend themselves? It'd be like signing a transfer request.

Its called a public shaming. Reminding them that they're not just answerable to the manager but yo the fans as well. If they want to shirk responsibility and not play when they dont feel likd it then im sure they wont mind the fans knowing.

 

[wolvored]

Maybe he is calling them out as these may be the players he wants gone in the summer. Perhaps he has seen with the Rojo and Schweinsteiger fiasco of trying to get them to leave, and they dont want to because of the money they are getting he is trying a different tactic. Who knows?

 

[roonster09]

All Jose said is players don't have to be 100% fit to play, they can play even when they are not 100%. It's a valid statement and plenty of ex players said they played when they had small niggle and with bit of pain.

Evra said he played when he had a foot injury, said something like he stuffed chicken breast in the boot or something.

It's so obvious we have few Barca and Bayern trolls (or pep bum boys) who will just post shit about Jose for anything.