Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."

Do you agree with Jose criticizing players in public for not being willing/fit to play?

  • Yes - the players need a kick up the bum!

    Votes: 395 69.8%

  • No - its unnecessary to criticize them in public. This should be handled internally

    Votes: 161 28.4%

  • No - but no matter what Jose does, i dont like him anyway

    Votes: 10 1.8%
  • Total voters
    566
Shaw injury not serious
This story is likely to rumble on throughout the international break.

Shaw did not believe he was ready to play against Swansea, and was subsequently criticised for it by Mourinho, but he should be fit to face Arsenal on November 19.

The Guardian reports that he is “confident” of recovering during the international break - although whether he will be selected by Mourinho remains to be seen.

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11:44
 
Lets hold fire a bit. Who knows whats gone on? Its all paper talk, and you know they like to sensationalise everything. If they havent been picked over the next 2-3 games then there may be some truth in it.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
So then we get back to Mourinho's original comments, which weren't just about criticising some players. He was also very much trying to make a compliment to the players that were ready to scrape out the victory. I think his comments were based on what he sees. On the one hand we have Antonio Valencia, playing half a match with a broken arm. On the other hand we have Shaw, with his brother whining on twitter, complaining about some pain. Sunday we needed Smalling (who actually played with injury against Chelsea, so the media singling him out is ridiculous), or Daley Blind to help us at centre-half to get three points, but because they weren't ready we had to take a ridiculous gamble with Phil Jones. We someone like Mata who's fighting for his place, despite his history with Mourinho, while on the other hand we have Henrikh sulking. We have 35 year old Ibrahimovic giving everything he has, playing match after match, while someone like Schweinsteiger seemed only half interested in being here. I think this is where Mourinho was getting at with his comments.
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Don't agree with all of your posts, but this is really well put.

Yeah, you can see the players who are actually working hard and trying to create success here - whether they're good enough or not.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
What I mean is that everything indicated that it was Blind himself who wasn't so eager to play, just like some others.

So Jose played the ones who did give him the impression they wanted to play 100%, we won the match, and afterwards he praised those players and he raised some concerns about the mentality of some players and if they were ready to do everything possible.
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I think it's a combination of both in Blind's case. He was unsure about his fitness and Mourinho was not convinced with his performance at RCB.

As for LB, I do think Mourinho would have wanted Blind to play in place of Shaw. So yes, in that respect, I agree that Mourinho's statements might be directed at Blind as well.

It's very difficult to comment though, for two reasons:

1) We don't know what Mourinho thinks of Blind as a person (he might trust him more than Smalling and Shaw).

2) We don't know the kind or extent of the injuries these players had.

Which is why I didn't like Mourinho making these things public. He basically started a topic of controversy without giving enough facts.

However, by saying Blind made himself available, he's possibly kept him in the clear. That's enough for me.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Shaw injury not serious
This story is likely to rumble on throughout the international break.

Shaw did not believe he was ready to play against Swansea, and was subsequently criticised for it by Mourinho, but he should be fit to face Arsenal on November 19.

The Guardian reports that he is “confident” of recovering during the international break - although whether he will be selected by Mourinho remains to be seen.

JS104075442.jpg

11:44
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His recent performances haven't earned him any guarantee of a place so i hope he doesn't expect to just walk back into the team now he fancies it.

On the plus side the players know they wont get away with not giving there all. If they're not able to get pumped up for the Arsenal game then they should be gone.
 
Didn't LVG criticise Shaw at the beginning of season 2 yrs ago for coming back out of shape. Now we have Jose basically criticising his desire to play. He bounced back and ultimately played very well for LVG until his injury. I hope he has the same response to Jose and dosen't sulk.He's a kid that probably isn't getting the right advise from those around him, and quite frankly he hasn't looked great at all this season but he has the tools to be a top left back for many years. Lets just hope this is part of the growing up process for him.
 
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poleglass red said:
Didn't LVG criticise Shaw at the beginning of season 2 yrs ago for coming back out of shape. Now we have Jose basically criticising his desire to play. He bounced back and ultimately played very well for LVG until his injury. I hope he has the same response to Jose and dosen't sulk.He's a kid that probably isn't getting the right advise from those around him, and quite frankly he hasn't looked great at all this season but he has the tools to be a top left back for many years. Lets just hope this is part of the growing up process for him.
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Yup. It can work out well even after the way it's been handled. Let's hope they take that route instead of looking to leave the club.
 
If you want to win in this league, you either man up and fight your club and place in it or find excuses to not participate and still get your weekly amount of wages.

Ofc, there is a difference between pain and injuries than can turn into a more serious problem for the player and the pain from wounds that must simply be fought and overtaken so you can get on the field.

Daniel Sturridge had a partly similar situation where he missed countless of months and when he was ready to play he always felt some discomfort in order to postpone another game. What Klopp did was talk him harsh as well as publicly which proved successful. Not sure if this is applicable for Shaw too, tho.
 
JPRouve said:
The only problem with that is that it fixes nothing and according to Mourinho both players already tried to play through pain and injuries, like Valencia and Rooney did.
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Well, we don't know yet if it fixes things or not. Hopefully the players in question respond well and we see them starting again soon, and playing well. And let's hope Mourinho doesn't hold a grudge either.
 
Roy Keane has just laid into Everton, saying overloading players means you're playing a lot of games and being successful and that Everton need to toughen up...

...lets see if the media go as crazy over those comments as they did about Mourinho's.
 
#07 said:
Roy Keane has just laid into Everton, saying overloading players means you're playing a lot of games and being successful and that Everton need to toughen up...

...lets see if the media go as crazy over those comments as they did about Mourinho's.
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Is Roy Keane managing Everton?
 
I would start Shaw against Arsenal if he's fit and available for selection. You'll find out a lot of what you want to know about him from the reaction he provides.

Also have no desire to see Darmian or Rojo at LB against Arsenal.
 
golden_blunder said:
this is a simmering club v country row over the availability of James McCarthy
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So he is defending his team interest against an other team? Or is he attacking McCarthy?

And I remember people being on the french manager's back, when he made the problem with Makélélé public.

Edit: I read the quotes and it's an external problem with a club that he suspects to fake injuries in order to prevent them from joining their selection.
 
JPRouve said:
So he is defending his team interest against an other team? Or is he attacking McCarthy?

And I remember people being on the french manager's back, when he made the problem with Makélélé public.

Edit: I read the quotes and it's an external problem with a club that he suspects to fake injuries in order to prevent them from joining their selection.
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yeah, hes having a go at Koeman, who basically told McCarthy that he shouldn't play for Ireland
 
LVG may have helped create the culture of hyper awareness around match fitness by insisting players play with the U21s for several games upon return from injury, and praising Martial for pulling out a match for feeling a twinge in the warm up.

Both approaches have their merits and drawbacks IMO.
 
If we face facts with the international break coming up and with us in real danger of falling way behind the top 4 this was an absolute must win game anything less would have been a disaster .
So it was time for the players to stand up and be counted and show that they were determined to put themselves on the line , fight for the shirt and get some momentum back.
It looks to me like the individualswere suffering from niggles or not 100% fit and decided to take the safe option and rule themselves out .
I for 1 understand mourinho's frustration , these pampered millionaires need to show that they care for the club not just the wages you remember players like Neville , Keane , Hughes , Robson , scholes , Bruce these players would run through a brick wall for the club even the likes of cantona would put his body ( and anyone's who got in his way ) on the line for the club ,these days the playersin general don't have any real affection for the club or it's fans they certainly won't put there body on the line .
How many truly look bothered when we lose ? Yet a couple of days later they are tweeting away about how we must fight the fight and turn things around before performing miserably again the following week or pulling out of the team because of a chipped nail or a bad haircut .
The squad is full of dead wood I said at the start of the season we needed at least 8 signings nothing has changed my mind .
iI suppose the trick now is to find players with a natural aggression and a mentality that will just not accept defeat out of our current lot who would you want alongside you in the trenches maybe Zlatan ( maybe Fellaini if only he could play football ) Bailly , Rooney ( he may not be playing well but no one can say he doesn't put a shift in )
Regarding Mourinho the knives are out for him with the press not the only ones out for blood , the board need to stay strong and back him and show the squad that player power will not win the day at United , the players need to understand that if they leave United the only way is down because I can't see Barca or Madrid or Bayern being interested in any of our players other than Degea or Pogba
 
Henrik Larsson said:
This was my impression too. It's just a weird situation, Blind was not 'fit' to start in a must win game against Swansea, but he was 'fit' enough to be on the bench and he is now 'fit' enough to be in the squad for his National Team. Smalling was 'injured', yet he still played against Chelsea. That didn't go well, so he was maybe hesitant to try it again with pain/'injury' and perform poorly against Swansea. Then there's Shaw, enough's been said about him. End result, we have to resort to playing Phil Jones.



The man is gone, but I guess the philosophy shall remain :lol:
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Jose said Blind wasn't fit enough to play but Blind said he wanted to be part of the matchday squad for the team.
 
VanGaalEra said:
Jose said Blind wasn't fit enough to play but Blind said he wanted to be part of the matchday squad for the team.
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Let's just hope he's not fit enough to play against Belgium tomorrow too, then it's all good. If he does play, it's definitely very suspicious that he couldn't start against Swansea. I doubt his dad would take the risk playing him in a friendly after the Mourinho's comments and now the Koeman vs. Keane discussion making headlines though.
 
Great way to get the players on your side after you're sacked from your last job because the players gave up on you. Slacking players should be dealt with, but not in public to hide behind excuses.
 
Whole story has been blown out of proportion it seems. Jose's comments werent anything special and Shaw being baffled is probably bollocks too.
 
This all just smacks of the media trying to blow things out of proportion, see the Sun "article". With a 24 hour news cycle, so-called journalists just dont have time to do it right anymore, but with Mourinho joining United, they got more than they could ever hope for.
 
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What a lot of shit this nonsense has generated, both on and off Caf. The only logical conclusion is the sight of Phil Jones, having lost an arm in a tragic training ground gurning incident but endearing himself to his new boss by stoically playing through this minor discomfort, holding aloft the premier league trophy, albeit in a slightly lopsided way, in May.
 
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Am I the only one thinking Jose didn't want them joining up with England and both Shaw and Smalling are in on it?

Both got little niggles, rather keep them and get fit than risk them getting injured for England?
 
MannyB said:
Ahead of Swansea - "Daley Blind has some problems but he put himself available to be on the bench and to try to help the team so the people that are here are people that I trust for a difficult match."
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Perhaps it is as simple as this. Mourinho just wants players that show the grit and commitment. He didn't play Blind anyway.

Anyway I would be interested to know if the medical team certified Shaw fit for the game.
 
sugar_kane said:
LVG may have helped create the culture of hyper awareness around match fitness by insisting players play with the U21s for several games upon return from injury, and praising Martial for pulling out a match for feeling a twinge in the warm up.

Both approaches have their merits and drawbacks IMO.
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That's a good point actually. Makes Jose going public looks kind of stupid. Just settle it indoors for feck sake's.
 
Not so sure who's the guilty one and who's right or wrong.
For what I have seen during the season there are only a hand full of players who do have the right attitude and shift a gear up - have an urgency and look like they are putting the club ahead of their own tweeter followers count.
I have seen that in Rashford, Zlatan (even though he's been missing the mark), may be Baily, Mata, Herrera.
We need the majority of the team to develop such an attitude towards every single game.
 
NinjaZombie said:
That's a good point actually. Makes Jose going public looks kind of stupid. Just settle it indoors for feck sake's.
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I agree with this one. Jose failed last season because he failed to deal with his players and staff. And at the moment it seems that he hasn't learnt anything from his mistakes at all. He needs to be careful when he needs to criticise his players. If he's yelling to a player because they didn't do good job during the game fair enough. But he's ironically criticised players during interview and public. Sir Alex got pissed at Keane for doing a similar thing and that was in MUTV which the clips can be taken off. But this one is in outside of MUTV which makes it even worse.
Smalling and Shaw always give 100% when they play. We are stuck with so many injuries in past of these years, I don't see why can't players refuse to play just once when clearly we have big squad available to cover them. Not playing once is better than not playing for 10 games.
 
Scholesy said:
A win against the Arse with Smalling and Shaw starting would put everything to bed nicely
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They'll need to do a lot of grovelling if they are to walk straight back into the team, on a whim.
 
Scholesy said:
A win against the Arse with Smalling and Shaw starting would put everything to bed nicely
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I think Smalling will play if fit but I don't think Shaw is playing well enough to get in the team. Smalling and Rojo at centre back with Blind left back would be my guess.
 
I think Shaw is looking a bit heavy again.
 
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