Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."

[sunama]

Do people think everything is rosy at other clubs and players don't have attitude issues etc.

Didn't Klopp call out Sturridge a few months ago?
The difference between us and the rest is we are spending World record transfer fees, so we expect to see results. Other clubs don't.
Specifically talking about LFC: I never once saw LFC do the hugging, smiling and cuddling with our opponents, after they got beat. We did this a few weeks back.
To me, we NEED the winning mentality and the weaker players need to be weeded out.

Where previously Moyes and LVG carried the can, while the players got off scott free, Jose is ensuring that the players will now be held accountable. Hopefully this will stop the rot.

Wasn't he carrying an injury?

Smalling played the full 90 minutes and did not look injured.
I think the problem right now is that his confidence is rock bottom, so it's easy to be "injured" and not play.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

Oh Christ. Well like I say, I'd be obliged if either of you could furnish me with an example of where scattergun public character assassination of your employees has ever proved productive or motivational. Nothing I've seen of Luke Shaw, for example, has ever indicated that he needed reminding of the privileged position he's in.

Agree. He tried the same thing at Chelsea and it backfired spectacularly. Remember Hazard coming off 'injured' against Leicester?

Only players like Fellaini, Rojo, Young and Jones will accept Mourinho's methods. Why? Because they are limited players. Valuable squad players, I admit, but not first-teamers.

Barring Pogba and Zlatan, I don't think any flair player will tolerate this nonsense. Mkhitaryan, Martial and Shaw already seem to be out and I suspect after a season of this draining version of football and dressing room politics, Herrera and Mata will be done as well.

I thought it was Mourinho's tactics which were getting stale, but now it seems like his man-management is from a past era. No player today will put his body on the line as if it's a requirement. Managers like Conte are equally demanding, but also want their players to play beyond stopping the opposition.

Plus, Conte simply said "we must work harder" and got on with the job. Didn't hear him slating Ivanovic or Fabregas, did we?

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

Frankly appalled at the high-handed opinions of posters here. Did you even consider that players have to look after their bodies?

Roy Keane commented on this very thing in his book. While at United, he considered van Nistelrooy an idiot for not playing with a slight niggle and saying "I only have one body", while Keano played with a tight hamstring. Years later, Roy realizes it was RvN who played till 39 and he who was the idiot.

Players not giving their 100% is a problem at United, but neither the only nor the biggest one. What's worrying is Mourinho and his regular poisonous rants. Does anyone fall for it anymore?

Just hearing him spoils my mood, imagine what it does to Mkhitaryan. I would rather have someone who accepts we are midtable instead of making tall claims and then blaming everyone around him for keeping him down.

You wanted this job José, you got it. Deal with it and shut the F up.

Good post. Mourinho has a history of asking players to play with injuries. It was one of my fears when he was being talked about as our manager as I wrote in December 2015

"I think Mourinho's style of management is the problem, I recall last season he thanked Hazard and Fabregas for playing while carrying injuries. That effects you in the long run, and I believe he burned out these players along with Oscar and Matic by making them run until their legs were little bloody stumps. That's great for one season but you pay the price at some stage.."

 

[CM]

As other mentioned Shearer agreed pro often not playing at their 100%. Ronaldo was playing with an injury during the run in of 2008 and in the EURO with Portugal before getting ankle (?) surgery in the beginning of new season...


Again, who undermine who first question?

As I said before, not all players are the same so a judgement should be made depending on their circumstances. In Shaw's case I think he deserves a bit of leeway, he's still very young and has only just recovered from a long-term problem.

The stuff about the players undermining the manager is speculation but Mourinho has already publically criticised a few players this season and that is fact. The same was also true at Chelsea and Madrid.

 

[Santoryo]

And what's quite ironic is that this very season Mou has found himself with injured players due to them trying to play through small niggling injuries or discomfort.

Tried to play an unfit and still injured Miki, resulted in him aggravating his injury and was out for a further month.

Smalling tried to play through some slight injury, same outcome, he aggravated it.

Same story with Rooney who tried to play through injury in Europa and he ended being out for a week.

Shaw himself comes from an horrific leg break, understandably he'll be cautious.

I mean we've got plenty of evidences this season alone what playing through small niggling injuries and pains have caused, so what's this reaction from him anyways?

 

[George Beast]

Wasn't he carrying an injury?

Was he? He wouldn't have started if he actually had an injury I don't think. Plus as I said, it was more the mentality he displayed than anything else. If there's anything that match taught us its that Smalling isn't a leader and doesn't have what it takes to be a starting defender for us, simple as that.

 

[2ndTouch]

It's good. It's out there now, so these players don't just have Mourinho to prove themselves to, but everyone else. Especially us United fans.

It especially good for Mou, as he has put himself out of the line of fire by shifting the blame on the players.
The story of the lone ballsy knight in shining armor(Jose) fighting the good fight against the hordes of moaning, spoilt, commitment lacking, overpayed pussies(Players), how romantic.
A good modern manager should be able to motivate his employees and win them over. Constantly lashing out at them in public won't get you anywhere in that regard.
JM is celebrating a cover-my-ass PR stunt to deflect from his inability to build a working unit, so that ppl don't question *his* performance and whether he's actually worth the money he's being paid.
Going by the reactions over here, he's currently having the success with it he's lacking on the pitch.

 

[ti vu]

As I said before, not all players are the same so a judgement should be made depending on their circumstances. In Shaw's case I think he deserves a bit of leeway, he's still very young and has only just recovered from a long-term problem.

The stuff about the players undermining the manager is speculation but Mourinho has been critical of our few players already this season, which is a fact. The same was also true at Chelsea and Madrid.

And Chelsea and Real Madrid dressing room share a common trait: player power, undermining the manager, bypassing him to the press and higher up. Mourinho didn't get the full backing. People brought the 3 year theory while often conveniently ignore the backing Inter and Porto afford Mourinho. The difference is not just the European trophy after all.

This didn't happen with SAF and should be stopped.

 

[The Mitcher]

I doubt he's talking about Shaw or Matial, considering the former's desire to improve in his 2nd season and then to get over that leg break and Martial is currently in mental limbo with his family issues, he's also not been here too long to be suddenly surrounded.

 

[Hostekule]

Mourinho knows what's needed to build a winning team, and has a set idea of what he expects from his players. Shaw and Smalling are key players to us so I assume he hopes they will change their attitudes. Whether one agrees with him or not he'll get rid of anyone he doesn't like. I view this as him giving them a chance to prove him wrong.

 

[CM]

And Chelsea and Real Madrid dressing room share a common trait: player power, undermining the manager, bypassing him to the press and higher up.

This didn't happen with SAF and should be stopped.

If the same thing has happened three times at his last three clubs, who does that suggest has the problem?

 

[ti vu]

If the same thing has happened three times at his last three clubs, who does that suggest has the problem?

If the problem happened with 3 different managers at this clubs, it can be Mourinho exclusive, can't it?

Mourinho won trophies with the other clubs having the problem. This happened even before Christmas at the first sight of tough time. It's not like the narrative of Mourinho run the players dried with a successful season before they burn out. FFS it's about 20 games or less into a new season.

 

[Santoryo]

Trying to toughen the players up? Send them a message? I think it hits home harder when he says it publicly. It's a gamble but one worth taking in my opinion. We've been on a drastic downward curve for years and I think it requires drastic action.

This so called gamble had him fired twice from his 2 previous jobs.

At this point it should be an absolute certainty to him that this method doesn't work and only bring disasters.

As Einstein would say, we're now in insanity territory.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

I just saw MOTD and this was raised.
Shearer stated that it was very very rare that he would ever step on the pitch when 100% fit. Being slightly injured was "normal".
Danny Murphy stated that had he waited to be 100% fit, he'd never have played a game.

So, while I realise that you are like to cuddle our darlings, but other professional footballers disagree with your opinion. Sorry bud.

Did you read the rest of my post? I gave the example of Keane, who shared the opinion of Shearer and Murphy while playing.

My point is, the culture of European football is different and it's catching on in England. Players like Barkley and Shaw will not sacrifice their bodies like previous generations if it's going to aggravate injury (and they shouldn't imo).

Neither will an attacker like Martial go tracking back every time as if that's his primary job. Mourinho cannot expect the same things from players he demanded ten years ago.

He should know better. It got him sacked the last time.

 

[TheReligion]

It's the public aspect that most people are questioning, not the desire to get players on the park. You're humiliated publicly, it stays with you. I don't get where Mourinho gets his payback for this strategy.

Why should he not go public when seemingly certain players aren't performing and then picking and choosing when they play?

For all you know he might have been battling with certain individuals behind closed doors up until this point and today thought feck it.

He made a point of saying how happy he was for Phil Jones as he stood up and said he'd play despite not having kicked a ball in months. He also praised Ashley Young for his desire to be on the pitch. Pogba took a heavy knock but wanted to play and had a great gane. Thats the difference. Is that bad management too?

I swear some of you lot need to toughen up. It's ironic really as many of our fans epitomise this weak mentality we need to shake from the players.

The losses to City and Chelsea embarrassed Mourinho and he apologised to the fans. He wants to win and he wants to do it for us. If the players don't have that desire and hunger to be winners anymore feck them. They are paid a fortune and at the biggest club in England and one of the biggest in the World.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

This so called gamble had him fired twice from his 2 previous jobs.

At this point it should be an absolute certainty to him that this method doesn't work and only bring disasters.

As Einstein would say, we're now in insanity territory.

He's lost it man! Should go to a midtable team and create another Moyes' Everton. Average players are the ones who will lap up his methods.

Then again, maybe those are his plans for us..

 

[dichinero]

I just find it ridiculous that people find his approach the best way. You know it's bad when Terry and Obi Mikel, Obi Mikel, Jose's yes man said that the dressing room was less tense when Jose left. Lovers will always outdo hardworkers. Players won't mind a hard manager but one that protects his players too.

 

[Skills]

I'd have agreed with you a season or two ago but I'm really not Shaw will ever hit that super-ceiling level he once had. I mean he has all the time in the world to do so but I'm not sure he'll still get there.

Ironically that's what I think about Mourinho. If this was the Mourinho of 10 years ago, he could throw whoever he wanted out and it would've been worth it. I don't think it's the same Mourinho now, and if we go by his career record of 3 seasons max - one of them is already guaranteed to be at best extremely underwhelming to most likely a disaster (after having spent £150m).

His poor decision making (see De Bruyne, maybe Lukaku) has also been exposed in recent years. Him fecking it up like that is more likely than him delivering a CL title, or the truckload of trophies he bought Chelsea in his first season there going by his recent record.

 

[Silverman]

I doubt if it will cause any major problems. Shaw and Martial are young so they have to learn and both have very high potential which means they won't be leaving the club that easily.

 

[TheReligion]

I doubt if it will cause any major problems. Shaw and Martial are young so they have to learn and both have very high potential which means they won't be leaving the club that easily.

It's nothing to do with Martial (really not sure who has thrown his name in). It was Smalling and Shaw who declared themselves unfit.

Martial was on the bench.

 

[Attila]

And what's quite ironic is that this very season Mou has found himself with injured players due to them trying to play through small niggling injuries or discomfort.

Tried to play an unfit and still injured Miki, resulted in him aggravating his injury and was out for a further month.

Smalling tried to play through some slight injury, same outcome, he aggravated it.

Same story with Rooney who tried to play through injury in Europa and he ended being out for a week.

Shaw himself comes from an horrific leg break, understandably he'll be cautious.

I mean we've got plenty of evidences this season alone what playing through small niggling injuries and pains have caused, so what's this reaction from him anyways?

Mourinho has a fantastic injury record through out his career as manager. I think he knows what he's doing

 

[TheReligion]

Ironically that's what I think about Mourinho. If this was the Mourinho of 10 years ago, he could throw whoever he wanted out and it would've been worth it. I don't think it's the same Mourinho now, and if we go by his career record of 3 seasons max - one of them is already guaranteed to be at best extremely underwhelming to most likely a disaster (after having spent £150m).

His poor decision making (see De Bruyne, maybe Lukaku) has also been exposed in recent years. Him fecking it up like that is more likely than him delivering a CL title, or the truckload of trophies he bought Chelsea in his first season there going by his recent record.

What a dismal post.

 

[ti vu]

Ironically that's what I think about Mourinho. If this was the Mourinho of 10 years ago, he could throw whoever he wanted out and it would've been worth it. I don't think it's the same Mourinho now, and if we go by his career record of 3 seasons max - one of them is already guaranteed to be at best extremely underwhelming to most likely a disaster (after having spent £150m).

His poor decision making (see De Bruyne, maybe Lukaku) has also been exposed in recent years. Him fecking it up like that is more likely than him delivering a CL title, or the truckload of trophies he bought Chelsea in his first season there going by his recent record.

He won the league with Chelsea without De Bruyne and Lukaku, and he doesn't have full authority regarding transfer at Chelsea due to the DOF. Thought this was discussed to dead? Hazard and co losing all desire (even though being motivated to match Ronaldo level) after winning the title is not something one can anticipate. Mouriho take blame for mess other thing up but not entirely scapegoat for the transfer. KDB Lukaku and Hazard hardly play that well together in Begium shirt neither.

3 year theory again without context. Not even SAF would survive Real and Chelsea axe under that condition. Under different condition and support, Inter & Porto: CL trophy as bonus. So which platform we should give Mourinho? Support or greedy demand? Anyone can guarantee Mourinho would have been sacked had him stayed at Porto and Inter for the third year?

 

[dichinero]

Why should he not go public when seemingly certain players aren't performing and then picking and choosing when they play?

For all you know he might have been battling with certain individuals behind closed doors up until this point and today thought feck it.

He made a point of saying how happy he was for Phil Jones as he stood up and said he'd play despite not having kicked a ball in months. He also praised Ashley Young for his desire to be on the pitch. Pogba took a heavy knock but wanted to play and had a great gane. Thats the difference. Is that bad management too?

I swear some of you lot need to toughen up. It's ironic really as many of our fans epitomise this weak mentality we need to shake from the players.

The losses to City and Chelsea embarrassed Mourinho and he apologised to the fans. He wants to win and he wants to do it for us. If the players don't have that desire and hunger to be winners anymore feck them. They are paid a fortune and at the biggest club in England and one of the biggest in the World.

This has little to toughen up. If he does not know how to gee his players up in private without having to rely on the media to do his job for him then his methods must be questioned. Give them the hair dryer treatment, drop them, fine them, send them to train with the reserves but using the conference to call out your players is just petty. In what work of life does this method guarantee good results? Are these not the same Chelsea players that looked down and out last season, now playing mesmerising football ball. Are these not the same Liverpool players that many thought Klopp couldn't get a solid mentality out of them. Even when it was obvious that Sturrige was struggling, he always praised him even when it looked odd. These players should enjoy playing for the club and not in fear. Passion comes from delight more than duty.

 

[Skills]

What a dismal post.

Sorry about the poor grammar.

 

[Attila]

Ironically that's what I think about Mourinho. If this was the Mourinho of 10 years ago, he could throw whoever he wanted out and it would've been worth it. I don't think it's the same Mourinho now, and if we go by his career record of 3 seasons max - one of them is already guaranteed to be at best extremely underwhelming to most likely a disaster (after having spent £150m).

His poor decision making (see De Bruyne, maybe Lukaku) has also been exposed in recent years. Him fecking it up like that is more likely than him delivering a CL title, or the truckload of trophies he bought Chelsea in his first season there going by his recent record.

Yeah I guess you would be after Fergie as well for letting Pogba leave due to lack of play time

Every manager makes mistakes

 

[Santoryo]

It's only been 11 games in and he's already moaned like 5 or 6 times about players and publicly slated them. How are people finding this acceptable.

It was only a month ago I was defending Mou on his Shaw comments and dressing it up as him trying to toughen up the kid but a month later he's had a few more public slating of his players.

In a space of a month I went from trying to rationalise Mou comment about Shaw to downright being already fed up with his public digs at his OWN players.

If an outsider like me can get fed up of this, what do you think the people who are actually getting constantly humiliated publicly by their own manager feel.

Again only 11 games in and already countless public shaming of his own players.

Sigh.

 

[Duafc]

Yeah I guess you would be after Fergie as well for letting Pogba leave due to lack of play time

Or the signing of about 15 players from just the top of my head.

As usual people who only want to have a yap about something will go out of their way to ignore fact and objectivity. Battering the rest of us around the head with their poorly formed opinions as though they are fact.

An absolute plague on this forum lately.

 

[TheReligion]

This has little to toughen up. If he does not know how to gee his players up in private without having to rely on the media to do his job for him then his methods must be questioned. Give them the hair dryer treatment, drop them, fine them, send them to train with the reserves but using the conference to call out your players is just petty. In what work of life does this method guarantee good results? Are these not the same Chelsea players that looked down and out last season, now playing mesmerising football ball. Are these not the same Liverpool players that many thought Klopp couldn't get a solid mentality out of them. Even when it was obvious that Sturrige was struggling, he always praised him even when it looked odd. These players should enjoy playing for the club and not in fear. Passion comes from delight more than duty.

You're making things up. Everyone forgets Klopp's first season when he questioned mentality of his players regularly and spoke out about Sturridge.

SAF regularly gave more public bollockings..

Chelsea have played this mesmerising football a few weeks. Some were calling for Conte's head prior to that as they were getting embarrassed in the Derby..

You guys are so fickle.

 

[Santoryo]

It's only been 11 games in and he's already moaned like 5 or 6 times about players and publicly slated them. How are people finding this acceptable.

It was only a month ago I was defending Mou on his Shaw comments and dressing it up as him trying to toughen up the kid but a month later he's had a few more public slating of his players.

In a space of a month I went from trying to rationalise Mou comment about Shaw to downright being already fed up with his public digs at his OWN players.

If an outsider like me can get fed up of this, what do you think the people who are actually getting constantly humiliated publicly by their own manager feel.

Again only 11 games in and already countless public shaming of his own players.

Sigh.

 

[Damien]

@Santoryo I think there's an issue with your phone/laptop.

 

[Lennon7]

Oh Christ. Well like I say, I'd be obliged if either of you could furnish me with an example of where scattergun public character assassination of your employees has ever proved productive or motivational. Nothing I've seen of Luke Shaw, for example, has ever indicated that he needed reminding of the privileged position he's in.

Is that how you'd describe what Mourinho's said? To me, he simply put it out there that he's not happy with some players commitment and drive. Wasn't he even asked about the absence of some players?

He didn't actually name drop anyone, or 'assassinate' them. Shaw's been called into question because he said only on the morning of the game that he doesn't feel fit enough to play. That's not good enough. I love Shaw, which is why I'd expect more from him.

 

[TheReligion]

Sorry about the poor grammar.

No I mean the content. All doom and gloom. You don't like Mourinho, you think the club is ruined, you're not happy about anything. .

I get it. How many times do you need to say.

 

[Attila]

This has little to toughen up. If he does not know how to gee his players up in private without having to rely on the media to do his job for him then his methods must be questioned. Give them the hair dryer treatment, drop them, fine them, send them to train with the reserves but using the conference to call out your players is just petty. In what work of life does this method guarantee good results? Are these not the same Chelsea players that looked down and out last season, now playing mesmerising football ball. Are these not the same Liverpool players that many thought Klopp couldn't get a solid mentality out of them. Even when it was obvious that Sturrige was struggling, he always praised him even when it looked odd. These players should enjoy playing for the club and not in fear. Passion comes from delight more than duty.

I don't think thats true.

Did he not question Sturridge's mentality with his injuries?

Claiming Klopp always praised him is total bullshit

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Yeah I guess you would be after Fergie as well for letting Pogba leave due to lack of play time

Every manager makes mistakes

Not even in the same ballpark. Pogba was a youth teamer. De Bruyne was someone who was a senior international who already ripped the Belgian league and the Bundesliga apart.

 

[TheReligion]

Is that how you'd describe what Mourinho's said? To me, he simply put it out there that he's not happy with some players commitment and drive. Wasn't he even asked about the absence of some players?

He didn't actually name drop anyone, or 'assassinate' them. Shaw's been called into question because he said only on the morning of the game that he doesn't feel fit enough to play. That's not good enough. I love Shaw, which is why I'd expect more from him.

LVG had issues with Shaw and his fitness. Obviously something is not quite right with him.

Or are both LvG and Mourinho totally wrong?

 

[PieCrust]

I'm only behind another clearout (which is where this is all heading) of deadwood if the board is actually going to commit to the manager. You have to give Mourinho 3+ years to sort it out or might as well get on the new manager every other season approach if you believe it couldn't possibly be players with shitty attitudes that know they can wait out the manager all the while cashing checks they'd never see at other clubs. Accountability goes a long way with changing attitudes.

For Shaw specifically, he's hasn't accomplished anything as a player in football. He's nothing but unrealized potential at this point. He runs fast and he's English, so he gets too much credit on this board as "the best young LB in the world" when he's done feck all. If, stress IF, his attitude is shite, then feck him. If his attitude is fine, then get your head down and start trying to reach your potential. And tell your brother he's a moron.

 

[Giggs86]

Mourinho > players, if it comes down to this. They had their chances, some of them under three different managers now. We can't go on and blame a manager after manager and let some underachieving players get away with this. Mourinho came hungry and committed to the cause, a thing you can't say about all of our players. If Mourinho decides to chop the deadwood and throw them under the bus I'd be 100% behind him. Everyone should just shut up and let him do what he was hired to do.
One transfer window is not enough. It took him four months now to thoroughly assess the squad, and I expect the team to really shape in his image in the next two transfer windows.

 

[Attila]

It's only been 11 games in and he's already moaned like 5 or 6 times about players and publicly slated them. How are people finding this acceptable.

It was only a month ago I was defending Mou on his Shaw comments and dressing it up as him trying to toughen up the kid but a month later he's had a few more public slating of his players.

In a space of a month I went from trying to rationalise Mou comment about Shaw to downright being already fed up with his public digs at his OWN players.

If an outsider like me can get fed up of this, what do you think the people who are actually getting constantly humiliated publicly by their own manager feel.

Again only 11 games in and already countless public shaming of his own players.

Sigh.

I just hope the players aren't as fragile as you

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Did you read the rest of my post? I gave the example of Keane, who shared the opinion of Shearer and Murphy while playing.

My point is, the culture of European football is different and it's catching on in England. Players like Barkley and Shaw will not sacrifice their bodies like previous generations if it's going to aggravate injury (and they shouldn't imo).

Neither will an attacker like Martial go tracking back every time as if that's his primary job. Mourinho cannot expect the same things from players he demanded ten years ago.

He should know better. It got him sacked the last time.

And in other sports as well. Basketball teams have become much better when it comes to resting players.