Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."

[ti vu]

This may go to bigger problem, so I will go brief.

Yes, it's the board fault if theey keep this going. However, Moyes and LVG's sacking is unpreventable. Why? We got the wrong coaches in the first place. Why? Moyes should never bee given the job given his ability. LVG philosophy is too foreign to our own identity. So in correcting the previous mistake, a big problem has been created in the dressing room with player power growing and they have learned a bad behavior by bypassing the manager and go to thee press... This is what I said should be stopped and be corrected now to how it used to be under SAF.

Here is SAF's quote

“The minute a Manchester United player thought he was bigger than the manager, he had to go. I used to say, ‘The moment the manager loses his authority, you don’t have a club. The players will be running it, and then you’re in trouble.”

SAF often used the press to spin thing into his view and push his agenda on the matter. It's a tactic used to manage, too. It's a myth that you can always sit down together and talk. Reading SAF's feud with players from his narrative and players' narrative, you can see how these people at times didn't talk to each other but playing a chess game using the press... The winner would be decided by the support from the outside gathered by the press... In the past more often than not, for this club the support lies with the boss than with the player despite the player may be the victim (Stam)

But then that is the board's fault, isn't it? Each time the players didn't respond to the manager, they sacked the manager. By doing this, they did create a model similar to Chelsea and Madrid.

In any case, going to the press doesn't really help. We already know our club's struggles run deeper than either players or the manager and can't really do anything about it since we are not a fan-owned club.

I hope Mourinho goes and cries in front of Glazers as well as he does in front of us. Then again, maybe he does communicate with the Glazers through the press..

This is entertaining read:
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/4jtt4q/in_their_own_words_the_breakdown_between_david/

 

[Giant Midget]

If Luke Shaw is leaking this stuff to the press, then he's at the wrong club to think the fans will stand for it.

Should have gone to Chelsea when they first bid for him, he'd fit right in with Terry.

 

[Schmiznurf]

There's a difference between criticising someone for being a nob or a whingy little shite, but to do so for a player who says his body doesn't feel ready is a little harsh. It's best to not risk it as if they did it could further aggravate whatever problem they have and we could lose them for a lot longer than one simple match.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If I was Jose I would pick Luke first chance I get, then it is up to Luke to perform.

 

[MoneyMay]

As a general point, Mourinho is questioning the professionalism in our squad. Which is fine. For the last 3 years, I can't think of too many performances where the players battled (Olympiakos at home stands out). Nothing wrong with Mourinho's comments IMO, but it's the fact he made them public and mentioned Smalling and Shaw pre-game. Which bothers me. Can you really question their mentality or attitude when one of those players started over 50 games last season while the other is still recovering from a long lay-off?

 

[#07]

Ferdinand is wrong, Ferguson never criticised his players publicly.

Yup.

We've seen facts consistently ignored in this thread. Why start believing in them now? People like us trying to show how this is no different to what many top managers have done e.g. Pep calling Nasri fat, freezing out Yaya, we're living on a different world to those who've decided Mou is mad or bad.

 

[Manny]

Yeah... Bye Luke. Fecking smartass.

 

[.Rossi]

As a general point, Mourinho is questioning the professionalism in our squad. Which is fine. For the last 3 years, I can't think of too many performances where the players battled (Olympiakos at home stands out). Nothing wrong with Mourinho's comments IMO, but it's the fact he made them public and mentioned Smalling and Shaw pre-game. Which bothers me. Can you really question their mentality or attitude when one of those players started over 50 games last season while the other is still recovering from a long lay-off?

Smalling is a worse version of Gary Cahill
Shaw is out of shape, offers nothing in attack and can't defend (See Navas the shit cnut skinning him time and time again) He's also clearly a mouth, with the mentality of a kid.

I've questioned Smalling for years now and Shaw I've had major doubts about since the Watford game

 

[rimaldo]

mourinho is about as close to a ferguson as you can possibly get. he has done nothing that fergie hadn't done a million times whilst manager. at times, ferguson had a go at players in public, at others, he protected and praised them. he ruthlessly cut players out who either weren't performing on the pitch or were toxic in the dressing room. he had no qualms who he upset if he thought he was right, even when he was wrong.

the only thing mourinho doesn't have is the unconditional love fergie does from
us, that helps to gloss over any of the more unsavoury elements to his character or excuse his actions. ferguson was pretty universally hated outside of united, that wasn't just because of our succcess.

personally, i think we need to get behind mourinho and give him time. let him sort the wheat from the chaff. it's going to be painful, it's not going to be quick, eggs and players will get broken, but if you ever wanted another fergie, he's the best we could get. he needs time to sort the mess out, just like ferguson did.

 

[Skills]

Smalling is a worse version of Gary Cahill
Shaw is out of shape, offers nothing in attack and can't defend (See Navas the shit cnut skinning him time and time again) He's also clearly a mouth, with the mentality of a kid.

I've questioned Smalling for years now and Shaw I've had major doubts about since the Watford game

You need to go back to copying other people's posts. Your own personal contributions are diabolical.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

So it is official now. We are going to have this passive aggressive PR war all season. Great job everyone.

 

[K2K]

Agree. He tried the same thing at Chelsea and it backfired spectacularly. Remember Hazard coming off 'injured' against Leicester?

Only players like Fellaini, Rojo, Young and Jones will accept Mourinho's methods. Why? Because they are limited players. Valuable squad players, I admit, but not first-teamers.

Barring Pogba and Zlatan, I don't think any flair player will tolerate this nonsense. Mkhitaryan, Martial and Shaw already seem to be out and I suspect after a season of this draining version of football and dressing room politics, Herrera and Mata will be done as well.

I thought it was Mourinho's tactics which were getting stale, but now it seems like his man-management is from a past era. No player today will put his body on the line as if it's a requirement. Managers like Conte are equally demanding, but also want their players to play beyond stopping the opposition.

Plus, Conte simply said "we must work harder" and got on with the job. Didn't hear him slating Ivanovic or Fabregas, did we?

This is just nonsensical.

Herrera has been one of the first names in the teemsheet after largely been ignored by the previous manager.Mata has worked hard and proven Mourinho wrong,so much so that he even publically admitted this.

If you are going to make up future scenarios,at least make them plausible.

 

[Skills]

So now, it's confirmed by @The Man Himself that it was in fact his previously broken leg causing him problems. Is it still fair enough, to expect him to play through the pain and aggravate it?

 

[PedroMendez]

Yup.

We've seen facts consistently ignored in this thread. Why start believing in them now? People like us trying to show how this is no different to what many top managers have done e.g. Pep calling Nasri fat, freezing out Yaya, we're living on a different world to those who've decided Mou is mad or bad.

the comparison makes no sense at all. Yaya and Nasri are two players, that were well known for their complicated character. Additionally Pep didn't just freeze them out, but throw them out of the window pretty much on day one, because he didn't need them. Nothing wrong with a manager deciding these matters. One the other hand Mou bought Micki, just to freeze him out.....that is pretty stupid....

 

[.Rossi]

You need to go back to copying other people's posts. Your own personal contributions are diabolical.

Oh look at you getting all narky and insulting. It's always the stupid ones who resort to the petty insults really. Shouldn't be surprised really.

My personal contribution is putting you in your place.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Yeah... Bye Luke. Fecking smartass.

If Shaw has actually gone to moan to the press about this then that is unfortunate.

Take Mourinho's criticism, work harder in training, and prepare for the next game. Don't go off and whine because the manager had the gall to criticize you. You're being paid millions of dollars to fecking play football for living. Man up and earn your keep.

 

[Skills]

If Shaw has actually gone to moan to the press about this then that is unfortunate.

Take Mourinho's criticism, work harder in training, and prepare for the next game. Don't go off and whine because the manager had the gall to criticize you. You're being paid millions of dollars to fecking play football for living. Man up and earn your keep.

Work hard on what, not having to recover from a broken leg?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

At least with Mourinho and the players leaking stuff back and forth we will have something to talk about during international week.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeah... Bye Luke. Fecking smartass.

Do you think he was trying to weed out the snitch and someone has taken the bait?

 

[MoneyMay]

eally, there's NOTHING worse? Nothing at all?

Nothing. I hate the term "man up" in that context.

What injury is this that Shaw currently has or has "just" come back from which you are referring to? Is it the broken ankle that he doesn't have anymore and hasn't had at any point this season?

You know, the one he just came back from? He's been out for a year, and if you expect any player to come back and give 100% instantly, then you're not facing reality. Valencia came back straight away in 10/11 and was very good in 11/12, but he's a rare case. It took Ramsey a while before he showed some consistency. He's trying, evident by the fact he was playing with an injury against Watford... but of course, that's not masculine enough for any of us. We need him to be tough. We need him to play and get torn apart by average wingers.

Getting over a serious injury has a mental barrier, and it takes most people a while to come to terms with that. I don't think anyone is saying that isn't the case...but the way to get over it isn't by hiding from it.

Which Shaw hasn't done. He played in two games where he clearly wasn't fit. That's not hiding to me.

If you left footballers to make their own judgements on things rather than listening to managers, medical staff, etc. what do you seriously think would happen?

A footballer understands his own body better than any of them. It's not far-fetched to say that if Shaw didn't feel up for the game (due to whatever condition he's in), I'd rather he didn't risk it. We've already rushed him back, and that's done nothing for us (take a look at his last two performances).

 

[ti vu]

the comparison makes no sense at all. Yaya and Nasri are two players, that were well known for their complicated character. Additionally Pep didn't just freeze them out, but throw them out of the window pretty much on day one, because he didn't need them. Nothing wrong with a manager deciding these matters. One the other hand Mou bought Micki, just to freeze him out.....that is pretty stupid....

Pep Zlatan, Pep Sanchez


, Pep Cesc

 

[K2K]

This has little to toughen up. If he does not know how to gee his players up in private without having to rely on the media to do his job for him then his methods must be questioned. Give them the hair dryer treatment, drop them, fine them, send them to train with the reserves but using the conference to call out your players is just petty. In what work of life does this method guarantee good results? Are these not the same Chelsea players that looked down and out last season, now playing mesmerising football ball. Are these not the same Liverpool players that many thought Klopp couldn't get a solid mentality out of them. Even when it was obvious that Sturrige was struggling, he always praised him even when it looked odd. These players should enjoy playing for the club and not in fear. Passion comes from delight more than duty.

If he did that in private,this same players would run to their press buddies and talk about how big bad Mourinho is treating them. They did exactly that under our two previous managers.

This was the same Klopp that basically said Sturridge's injuries were in his head. Sturridge has reacted by keeping quiet and playing his football.The least our bunch can do is that.Prove us all wrong.He's shown with Mata already that isn't stubborn enough to not have his mind turned.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Pep Zlatan, Pep Sanchez, Pep Cesc

Huh? All those guys were first choice early on. He had a falling out with Zlatan and I am pretty sure he was already gone by time Sanchez and Cesc were sold.

 

[ti vu]

Huh? All those guys were first choice early on. He had a falling out with Zlatan and I am pretty sure he was already gone by time Sanchez and Cesc were sold.

There were quite some rumours that Pep was very disappointed with Sanchez in different things. Many factors ( not so unfamiliar): politic, deemed bad signings at time, unsuccess, players losing focus (unbelievable demand)... added up and the pressure made Pep wanted to get away from the pressure.

It's myth that there are many managers as nice as Ancelotti (my first choice as our manager given a chance). Under pressure, managers may act salvage and in the public too.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

So now, it's confirmed by @The Man Himself that it was in fact his previously broken leg causing him problems. Is it still fair enough, to expect him to play through the pain and aggravate it?

Shaw himself has admitted in a previous interview that not a singly day passes by without his leg aching. It's something he has to live with. Plus the club has physios and doctors who follow the squad in every away game. I'm sure Mourinho sent Shaw to see them and they gave the green light for him to play.

Perhaps it would be better, if Shaw saw a psychologist and if the club signed a second quality LB in order to have all bases covered in case this continues. Time waits for no one, unfortunately.

 

[#07]

Work hard on what, not having to recover from a broken leg?

So you think our medical staff didn't clear Shaw to play, and that Mourinho just decided to play him until Shaw refused?

It is possible to come back from a bad injury. Keano did his ligaments a year before we won the treble. Larsson got a horrible leg break at Celtic and played deep into his 30s, including at United for a bit.

Yes, he broke his leg, but his leg is now good enough to play football on. He started the season well enough. The leg only seems to have become an issue since we started stuttering...

 

[Skills]

So you think our medical staff didn't clear Shaw to play, and that Mourinho just decided to play him until Shaw refused?

It is possible to come back from a bad injury. Keano did his ligaments a year before we won the treble. Larsson got a horrible leg break at Celtic and played deep into his 30s, including for a time at United.

Yes, he broke his leg, but his leg is now good enough to play football on. He started the season well enough. The leg only seems to have become an issue since we started stuttering...

Well he's also now not cleared to go with England for the International break. And I'd rather not talk about Mourinho and medical staffs, if you know what happened last season.

 

[lysglimt]

Shaw has done it before? When? I might have missed it.

Sometime earlier this season - Shaw missed a game complaining about not feeling quite right. There was a big debate about it - where Medical experts made comments that with this kind of injury you will have occational pains a long time afterwards. Could have been late september or something

 

[donkeyfish]

Pep Zlatan, Pep Sanchez


, Pep Cesc

Google translate failed me here, any help translating? I got "the shell of my mother", which I assume is not the correct translation.

I did get "Use your head" though, as the final sentence.

 

[Witchking]

I am slowly warming up to Jose. I did not want him at United and was completely pissed with the way we went downhill after the first 3 matches.

But i guess i am now understanding what a big task any manager , however big, has at United.

A lot of the current players seem like little kids running off to the press to complain if Jose utters a single thing about them in his interviews without even taking names.

Rooney, Shaw, Smalling all seem to be in the group.

Every manager is put in a spot after every match, Jose, i guess has always been this way and he has always been frank. If he is saying something that you do not agree with, prove him wrong, that's what great players do. What they do not do is run to a jerk like Jamie Jackson and pour their heart out. We need to get rid of such players.

 

[K2K]

Really surprised by the loyalty shown by United fans towards a man whos shown absolutely nothing and whos last 18 months as a manager have been poor. From deciding Mkhitaryan is mentally weak and lazy to Martial has a bad attitude; all eerily similar to what Chelsea fans were saying about Diego Costa and Eden Hazard after Mourinho questioned their character and motivation.

After the game Mourinho said "It's not just the players but it's the people that surround the players. It will take time to change [the mentality] but with the help of players like Phil Jones, Michael Carrick and Wayne Rooney, it will be a possible mission."

Do the players not mentioned who hes taken a liking to absolutely frighten you? If I was a United fan they would. Hes isolating your most talented players while bigging up the likes of Wayne Rooney. I would of thought a fanbase who recently saw Ashley Young oust Di Maria would see the warning signs. Favouring players lime Lingard, Fellaini and Young over Martial, Mkhitaryan and Shaw is why you struggle to get into the top 4 on a regular basis.

Be careful what you wish for.

I don't think it's a loyalty to Jose per se.

It's simply because our players have consistently done this for the last 3 years and we've consistently blamed the managers. Watch our run between Wolfsburg until the Chelsea game in December last season and youll see what the rest of us have been seeing. Our players genuinely look like they don't care.It hurts to watch as fans .Managers and players will come go and,but we are the ones subjected to this nonsensical perfomances.

At some point you have to start wondering,as the only constant has been the players. Maybe it's them.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Bye bye Luke. There's always a big chance that a young player won't fully recover from that kind of injury either physically or mentally. But this has pretty much ended his United career imo. I expect CBJ to be recalled In January and Shaw to be sold either then or in the Summer. Not fit to play, not playing well defensively or offensively when fit, bad attitude and leaks to press, with family mouthing off, equals transfer.

 

[bosnian_red]

Work hard on what, not having to recover from a broken leg?

He had a broken leg. The broken bone healed. It's a pretty straightforward recovery these days. The biggest challenge is getting back mentally. He's a bit naive if he thinks his leg won't ache from time to time, and if he pulls out of games because his leg is sore, then that makes him look weak. Which is basically exactly what Mourinho called out. You'll find it easier to find players out there who play with some sort of pain in every game compared to players who are 100% fit and don't feel anything.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I am slowly warming up to Jose. I did not want him at United and was completely pissed with the way we went downhill after the first 3 matches.

But i guess i am now understanding what a big task any manager , however big, has at United.

A lot of the current players seem like little kids running off to the press to complain if Jose utters a single thing about them in his interviews without even taking names.

Rooney, Shaw, Smalling all seem to be in the group.

Every manager is put in a spot after every match, Jose, i guess has always been this way and he has always been frank. If he is saying something that you do not agree with, prove him wrong, that's what great players do. What they do not do is run to a jerk like Jamie Jackson and pour their heart out. We need to get rid of such players.

Rooney was one of the names Mourinho he specifically names to change the culture of the club.

 

[Zoo]

 

[Pink Moon]

It must be galling for United fans to know that the best young defender (certainly in his position) in the country who could be a cornerstone for the team for at least the next decade will be sold by a manager who will be off in 2-3 years.

 

[Zoo]

It must be galling for United fans to know that the best young defender (certainly in his position) in the country who could be a cornerstone for the team for at least the next decade will be sold by a manager who will be off in 2-3 years.

Nice stirring

 

[Maradona10]

So shaw is what Rooney was when moyes came over. Moyes bent over backwards and gave him a five year contract, Mourinho has called shaw out for now and i imagine will throw him out of the club if he does'nt get his act together. This angry and confused./bewildered and baffeled shit is stupid to pull off. wHO IS SHAW's agent?

 

[Pink Moon]

Nice stirring

Am I wrong?

Shaw's got sky high potential and is a great little player. Mourinho's previous speaks for itself.

 

[PedroMendez]

Pep Zlatan, Pep Sanchez


, Pep Cesc

so you end up posting a video about Pep shouting at a player the during a match and compare this to remarks in an interview? Are you kidding me? Not that this is relevant, but it didn't work out with any of these players and Pep. So if anything it is just proving my point.
Players usually don't get motivated by public criticism and it sure as hell doesn't change the culture/environment in the club in any positive way.

If you think that Shaw is another bad apple, that we need to sell...okay....I think he is one of our most talented players, who never made any problems.