Juan Mata - Shall he be our #10?

I would like to see more often on the pitch together with Herrera. Mata on the 10 and Herrera behind. If we don`t get Pedro Mata can stay on the right and we should go for 4-3-3 with Herrera - Schneiderlin and one of Schweini/Carrick behind Mata/Depay/Rooney.
In a 4-2-3-1 Mata has to play more as a traditional right winger which is not his best position.
 
Watching Silva for City is annoying as I've always thought Mata is a player of the same level. An extended run in this position would show this I think. Of course having a top striker ahead would still give Silva the advantage but Mata is ideal for us there.....it'll probably be Valencia next then....
 
Henk de Rode said:
Great player, nice guy. Didn't LvG try him in the n10 position last year? Anyways, I think he mostly lacks the physique to be a false-10. I can understand why Louis want to exploit Depays strenghts in that area. More than Mata, Depay's very strong and has a great shot. I'm afraid Mata's not an ideal winger either. Considering his superior technical ability, LvG's likely to use him in various positions. He doesn't care if people think he's nuts, proved that during last WC when he made Dirk Kuyt Holland's left back. Last year Rooney became a CM and this year Blind's a CB. And then he goes on lecturing others about the principals of modern football...
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Yeah. He didn't play there a lot, but when he did he struggled to get involved in the game. He's looked much better on the right for us, but unfortunately that comes at the expense of having genuine pace and penetration down the right wing.
 
buckooo1978 said:
Definitely

His best work came from a central position

The assist for Januzaj and that pass to Depay :drool: came from central positions

With 2 defensive minded strong midfielders behind him hes a luxury we can afford
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I don't think he would have had the room in those positions if he started out at #10 as opposed to coming off the wing. I feel like Januzaj's performance the other day showed why van Gaal feels you need someone rather strong in there in our current set-up/this league.
 
I don't think it's really fair to judge Mata as a number ten in his few attempts under Moyes/LVG so far. In both cases there were mitigating factors, under Moyes the whole team didn't look up to scratch and under LVG a lot of it was with as part of the 352 where both the strikers were slow and not looking to stretch the game making it hard to play just off them. In both cases we've either not had or used our wingers to both provide width and to make runs inside and that's what you need as a number ten, players making runs that can be picked out and coming short to play off each other.

If Pedro comes then for me it's a no brainer to pub Mata back in the middle, he can provide the pass for Depay/Pedro/Januzaj to get in and they'll provide the link up and ambition to get in the box that he needs. He's undoubtedly the best player we have to bring the most out of those players
 
He played as a number 10 in the 3-4-1-2 or the diamond. There was no width or movement there for him to work with. He's a completely different proposition with some actual wide forwards/wingers with pace & movement to complement at the 10 position.
 
Maagge said:
I don't think he would have had the room in those positions if he started out at #10 as opposed to coming off the wing. I feel like Januzaj's performance the other day showed why van Gaal feels you need someone rather strong in there in our current set-up/this league.
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In our current set up maybe, in the league I don't think so. If you want to play them more as a second striker so they often have their back to goal then none of our players bar Fellaini suit that I agree. If you play them as a 3rd midfielder and have them stepping on to the ball facing the opposition goal then Mata/Herrera both could do that and Mata is proven at that in the league. I saw LVGs comments on Herrera and why he's not playing and whilst I wasn't surprised I'm trying to think who it benefits to have that player play so high. On paper you would think it doesn't leave rooney as isolated but judging on performance I imagine we'd have a lot better use of the ball in the final 3rd with Mata/Herrera in a position where they're facing goal as opposed to having their backs to goal. Certainly as I was saying above to get the most out of players like Depay and Pedro if he comes you'd want Mata/Herrera in a position to play them in.
 
He's better off where he's currently playing. Not ideal there either, but still better off.
 
Per whoscored. Since 2009/10 , Mata as a number ten has
62 Apps
5217 minutes(58 full games)
22 goals
24 assists
193 chances created
24 minutes every chance created or goal scored
113 minutes every goal scored or goal assisted
 
Skills said:
He played as a number 10 in the 3-4-1-2 or the diamond. There was no width or movement there for him to work with. He's a completely different proposition with some actual wide forwards/wingers with pace & movement to complement at the 10 position.
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Depay and Martial on either side? The only issue would be Wayne I reckon. Of course it would be less of an issue if we upped the tempo and tried to move the ball forward. All in all, it's not happening is it.
 
I don't get it. If his size and lack of defensive ability are the primary reasons for Mata not being used as #10, then how does LvG explain having no issue playing Januzaj as a #10?
 
manutddjw said:
I don't get it. If his size and lack of defensive ability are the primary reasons for Mata not being used as #10, then how does LvG explain having no issue playing Januzaj as a #10?
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That's what the Cafe thinks, we don't really know what's in van Gaal head. IMO he should stay on the right, only play higher like he did last season. Hopefully now Young comes back to starting XI and we can play that way again. I suppose he was moved because of Memphis.
 
manutddjw said:
I don't get it. If his size and lack of defensive ability are the primary reasons for Mata not being used as #10, then how does LvG explain having no issue playing Januzaj as a #10?
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Defensively ability is definitely not the issue. van Gaal - as he has said literally a billion times this season - wants a second striker as opposed to an orthodox midfielder in that position. His biggest issue with Mata as the #10 (I can only assume) is his lack of mobility; Mata won't run in behind, but hover around in dangerous areas looking to set players loose. How Ander was playing against Brugge in the second half is probably more of what LvG wants. The next issue is how easily Mata is dispossessed. Unlike the other small players in the league - Hazard/Silva/Cazorla etc. Mata doesn't have that burst of agility or guile to lose his man in ball retention.

If anything, playing wide and drifting into the pockets of space is actually the best place for Mata in this system - particularly with a RB who is freakishly good in one-on-one defending.
 
Is Mata dispossessed that easily? I wonder if the stats would back that up. I might be wrong but I don't think he gets dispossessed noticeably more than the likes of Silva, Cazorla, Ozil or whoever.
 
sullydnl said:
Is Mata dispossessed that easily? I wonder if the stats would back that up. I might be wrong but I don't think he gets dispossessed noticeably more than the likes of Silva, Cazorla, Ozil or whoever.
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He probably doesn't have weaker stats. But he's significantly weaker at holding the ball under pressure, turning his man, and dribbling his man.
Basically, he's not dispossessed because he doesn't attempt to keep hold of the ball near opposition players very much. Whereas those guys (especially Silva) are just as tidy and accurate but with added ability on the ball.

If there's an opposition player between Mata and the goal, he's not moving forward with the ball at his foot.
So the stats wouldn't tell the story in this case. A bit like how people kept on using Blind's passing accuracy as some sort of proof he was a very good holding midfielder. The top players may have similar stats, but they get those stats while being more pro-active, dangerous, creative on the ball.
 
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DWelbz19 said:
Defensively ability is definitely not the issue. van Gaal - as he has said literally a billion times this season - wants a second striker as opposed to an orthodox midfielder in that position. His biggest issue with Mata as the #10 (I can only assume) is his lack of mobility; Mata won't run in behind, but hover around in dangerous areas looking to set players loose. How Ander was playing against Brugge in the second half is probably more of what LvG wants. The next issue is how easily Mata is dispossessed. Unlike the other small players in the league - Hazard/Silva/Cazorla etc. Mata doesn't have that burst of agility or guile to lose his man in ball retention.

If anything, playing wide and drifting into the pockets of space is actually the best place for Mata in this system - particularly with a RB who is freakishly good in one-on-one defending.
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The problem is it also seems to require a right back who is freakishly good going forwards, because while Mata can be quality in any position, and he has at times been our best player this season, he has games where offers nothing and pretty much everything goes through our left. He ends up doing little apart from receiving the ball playing and playing a few passes to get the ball back infield or play it back.

I'd love to see us try out pace in both wide positions a few times.
 
Speak said:
He probably doesn't have weaker stats. But he's significantly weaker at holding the ball under pressure, turning his man, and dribbling his man.
Basically, he's not dispossessed because he doesn't attempt to keep hold of the ball near opposition players very much. Whereas those guys (especially Silva) are just as tidy and accurate but with added ability on the ball.

If there's an opposition player between Mata and the goal, he's not moving forward with the ball at his foot.
So the stats wouldn't tell the story in this case. A bit like how people kept on using Blind's passing accuracy as some sort of proof he was a very good holding midfielder. The top players may have similar stats, but they get those stats while being more pro-active, dangerous, creative on the ball.
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It must make Mata quite an unusual player if he can produce the goals/assists of a top player and statistically keep the ball as well as a top player, yet not actually be as pro-active, creative or dangerous on the ball as a top player.
 
He is pretty unique, to be fair. I can't actually think of many - if any - player(s) like him. A clinical finisher with excellent positioning and fantastic ball control, but one who lacks mobility or the guile to challenge defenders. Also, I wouldn't say he isn't creative, he's just not as creative as you would expect of a wee Spaniard who plays in the positions he plays.
 
sullydnl said:
It must make Mata quite an unusual player if he can produce the goals/assists of a top player and statistically keep the ball as well as a top player, yet not actually be as pro-active, creative or dangerous on the ball as a top player.
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I think if he was playing as a second striker it wouldn't be much of an issue. But on the flanks you tend to need a consistent threat and involvement.
 
sullydnl said:
It must make Mata quite an unusual player if he can produce the goals/assists of a top player and statistically keep the ball as well as a top player, yet not actually be as pro-active, creative or dangerous on the ball as a top player.
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Yep, he is unique/unusual.
He's not particularly good at dribbling, shielding the ball, turning his man...
But he's got perfect technique, a great finish, and a great final pass. I actually don't think he's overly creative - it's his final pass that's great, not his cutting open of defenses.

Sit two banks of four in front of him and he's a passenger/safe/limited player.
His uniqueness explains why - despite his Chelsea form - he was never a Spain regular.
 
Speak said:
Yep, he is unique/unusual.
He's not particularly good at dribbling, shielding the ball, turning his man...
But he's got perfect technique, a great finish, and a great final pass. I actually don't think he's overly creative - it's his final pass that's great, not his cutting open of defenses.

Sit two banks of four in front of him and he's a passenger/safe/limited player.
His uniqueness explains why - despite his Chelsea form - he was never a Spain regular.
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This is why I think the Rooney pretend number 10 but actually second striker role sounds perfect for him.

For example, him behind Rooney/Young, Martial and Depay.
 
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amolbhatia50k said:
This is why I think the Rooney number pretend number but actually second striker role sounds perfect for him.

For example, him behind Rooney/Young, Martial and Depay.
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Almost perfect, I'd say.
He's suited in that his best attributes are shooting and getting into deep positions to make cut backs and lay-offs.
But I think van Gaal also wants the player in that role to be a bit more powerful and pacey. An injector of pace into the attack.

Eg. When the team is camped in the opposition's half, it may be necessary for that player to actually turn and face the opposition, take the ball to them, and break the lines with the ball at his foot.

That's all I can think of, really. Because other than that Mata is suited to a second striker role.
 
I quite like Mata on the right wing, im more concerned of how we are going to play Memphis and Martial in the same team when they both like drifting in from the left. Im assuming Martial will play as a striker and Rooney behind him, with Mata on the right and Memphis on the left. Martial can roam around abit that way with Rooney leading the line briefly when Martial does wonder?
 
Lots of theories as to why but whatever the reason I think it's pretty clear by now that LvG would play almost anyone in the team as a #10 rather than Mata.
 
He was creative, until last season where we started using him in CM for a few games. Now he just keeps the ball. But he pops up with goals
 
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