Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Klopp talks and talks, proclaiming his style and rock & roll-football and talking down others, especially United and teams stealing points from him. Lately it is only him talking though, the positive pundits and newspaper articles are rapidly vanishing. They aren’t winning games on the trot, they aren’t scoring that many - in fact he is struggling to beat his predecessor.
I guess that’s the reason why so many United-fans were distraught on Saturday, we just wanted to beat his smug face and hipster glasses. Seeing him froth at the mouth whilst Mourinho was smiling next to him would have been devine. Well well, at least it’s great to see that we have something like +18 goals on him as well as a seven point advantage. It’s also great to see that Liverpool are pretty much out of the title race after eight games - no way in hell will they catch City this year. 27 years and counting....
I guess that’s the reason why so many United-fans were distraught on Saturday, we just wanted to beat his smug face and hipster glasses. Seeing him froth at the mouth whilst Mourinho was smiling next to him would have been devine. Well well, at least it’s great to see that we have something like +18 goals on him as well as a seven point advantage. It’s also great to see that Liverpool are pretty much out of the title race after eight games - no way in hell will they catch City this year. 27 years and counting....
I really can't stand this about him. Instead of taking accountability and talking about what changes and adjustments need to be made he's always pushing the blame on others and their approaches to the games. I think it's dumb also because he is basically admitting he can't adapt and that he needs the opponent to play perfectly into his hands. It's one of the reasons I thought they'd come 6th or 7th this season and flop in the cups. Teams and managers know exactly what is required to take points off of them. You add that into the more demanding schedule this season and it's all pointing to a season of mediocrity for them after showing some signs of a team on the up last season.
Style of football. Liverpool are showing some nice if ultimately pointless attacking flair under Klopp. Under Rodgers, post Suarez, they were awful to watch.
I don't know what style of football they are talking about. Liverpool under klopp only play good football against top sides that too when teams give them space. Other than that their football resembles a lot of us under van gaal. I watched them against Newcastle, they were awful, nothing stylish. Against Burnley they looked sluggish, same against palace. Even against us, they resembled a lot of a van gaal side. Pass pass pasz.
Time to call spade a spade and admit he hasn't been that great.
Yeah, I noticed a lot of boring midfield play. They are tasty when you give them tons of space but more teams have caught on and they look pedestrian at times.
This is a test for Klopp because now they have to play more games and his game plan is clear. Unfortunately for him teams are adjusting and not just letting him win and he's irritated by that. If he is able to switch it up a bit and get top 4 again and a decent run in a Cup fair play to him but I think that's looking increasingly unlikely.
Exactly. I think if they performed as well as they should, they would have at least scored 1 and that would probably hailed as biggest 3 points!
Regarding Klopp, I like Klopp but he seems to be infected by the Always The Victim virus. Get well soon, Klopp!
He's done feck all so far and he hasn't improved on Rodgers whatsoever. He's really made the scousers buy into his waffle though and he has a free pass there for eternity, it seems. I want him to stay there because I don't think they're going anywhere under him but at the same time, I can't fecking stand the sight of him so would rather he pissed out of this league altogether.
Understatement of the century right there. When you consider the mental hype that surrounded him when he arrived, he's been an abject failure so far.
SAF said he was "worried" about what Klopp could do at Liverpool, so was I, and I'm sure a lot of United fans wondered if Liverpool had finally brought in a manager that would improve them. He hasn't really, at all, but Liverpool fans seem to love him. Maybe they are just so used to mediocrity they will grab on to anything to try and assure themselves they are a top team. As it has been said on this thread by more than a few, they are no better than when Rodgers was in charge. Take out Mane, Salah and most of all, Coutinho, there isn't much left.
They are going nowhere under Klopp, unless he buys some decent defenders and a goalkeeper.
They are going nowhere under Klopp, unless he buys some decent defenders and a goalkeeper.
I'm not saying that Klopp always says reasonable stuff, but I think a lot of people have had their view on statements damaged by sensationalist media. Every time someone who is not employed by United opens his mouth people instantly assume it's some form of drama, or some agenda, or some early sign of a mental breakdown.
On another note I find it quite amusing how like every third post in this thread states that the guy is overrated, not one bit better than Rodgers, can't set up a defence, hasn't improved Liverpool, has them playing mediocre, doesn't buy well, as a team they are mediocre and maybe two players would get into United's XI etc.. and then Mourinho rolls out the bus when he faces them and for a lot of people that's okay too, since apparently they can be mediocre and terrible in defence and good enough to warrant playing for a draw at the same time.
On another note I find it quite amusing how like every third post in this thread states that the guy is overrated, not one bit better than Rodgers, can't set up a defence, hasn't improved Liverpool, has them playing mediocre, doesn't buy well, as a team they are mediocre and maybe two players would get into United's XI etc.. and then Mourinho rolls out the bus when he faces them and for a lot of people that's okay too, since apparently they can be mediocre and terrible in defence and good enough to warrant playing for a draw at the same time.
We did all we could with two midfielders when Liverpool also went for a draw but staying with 3 midfielders rather than gambling to try and get a win. Had we been more at full strength we would have matched their midfield three and been more attacking as a result.
That's pretty much what Liverpool is doing. Everyone else don't know how to play football the right way
Carragher:
"Jürgen Klopp said afterwards that Liverpool could never play like that; well maybe his Liverpool could never play like that, but my Liverpool did and we did it plenty of times and got results on the back of it."
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...nho-top-six-record-may-cost-man-utd-the-title
"Jürgen Klopp said afterwards that Liverpool could never play like that; well maybe his Liverpool could never play like that, but my Liverpool did and we did it plenty of times and got results on the back of it."
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...nho-top-six-record-may-cost-man-utd-the-title
Rafa's teams weren't frequently great to watch in the big games. I'll let those older than me who watched Liverpool under Houllier speak about the attractiveness or otherwise of Liverpool under the man who won the cup treble.
I agree under Benitez we wasn’t as fluent or great to watch as these days but I never saw him be as defensive as Mourinho, we at least had a counter attack in us.
Did decently enough with those with quieroz
Re Klopp. I'm amazed that not one Liverpool fan on here is taking issue with his substitutions. United weren't at it on the day. Liverpool have had a poor start to the season and beating United would have been a huge result. He made three late substitutions and not a single one of them could be considered as attacking. That's a remarkably cowardly approach for a home manager presented with such a great opportunity to lay down a marker and really kick-start their season.
If I had to pick one as the most cowardly, it was taking off your top scorer (Salah) and replacing him with the Ox. Considering how the latter has recently played a fair bit as a wing-back it was kind of shocking that Klopp lacked the cojones to stick him for a full-back and keep Salah on the pitch.
Mourinho's getting all the shit this week for being an uber-defensive coach but in all our must win games last season he never hesitated to replace a full-back with an attacking player, frequently someone with zero experience playing at wing-back. I guess he's just a bit more gung ho than his opposite number at Liverpool?!?
If I had to pick one as the most cowardly, it was taking off your top scorer (Salah) and replacing him with the Ox. Considering how the latter has recently played a fair bit as a wing-back it was kind of shocking that Klopp lacked the cojones to stick him for a full-back and keep Salah on the pitch.
Mourinho's getting all the shit this week for being an uber-defensive coach but in all our must win games last season he never hesitated to replace a full-back with an attacking player, frequently someone with zero experience playing at wing-back. I guess he's just a bit more gung ho than his opposite number at Liverpool?!?
Agreed on all points Pogue. Carragher said as much in his comments on the game too. I'll be honest I was really disappointed we didn't attack them more due to their issues in defense but certainly Klopp should be taking far more flak than he is getting imo.
All three of the players subbed only got back I think Thursday morning from international duty. I think Klopp and other managers always plan how many minutes certain players are going to get. I wouldn’t of taken the risk either, the last thing I would want is a smash and grab counter attack from Mourinho and then have to hear how it was a masterclass for god knows how long. Our gameplan was working but again we didn’t take our chances when they came to us. Matip and Can missed absolute sitters.
Subbing in attackers is remarkably cowardly now? Imagine he had subbed in a midfielder or even a defender, does the English language even have a word that is strong enough for that?
Did you read my whole post? Pay particular attention to the second paragraph.
And yes, if he'd replaced any of those players he subbed off with a midfielder or defender than that would have been even more cowardly. So much so that it might just be obvious enough for the football press (and Liverpool fans) to actually notice.
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A refusal to risk defeat in order to turn a draw into a win is exactly the accusation being made against Mourinho. The away manager. Go figure.
Did De Gea make a single save in the second half? I can't think of one. If that Can chance is the best that Klopp's gameplan can produce in 45 minutes of Liverpool being comfortably on top then he needs a new gameplan. Or to grow some balls when it comes to making the changes needed to convert that dominance into clear opportunities.
Yes, parking the bus is the same as not changing the formation of a linup that intends to attack.
It's also false to think the team which sticks the most attackers on the pitch is the most threatening.
No amount of smileys or weird tangents are going to effectively dodge the valid point Pogue's making.Yes, parking the bus is the same as sticking to not changing the formation of a linup that intends to attack.
It's also false to think the team which sticks the most attackers on the pitch is the most threatening.
Yes, parking the bus is the same as sticking to not changing the formation of a linup that intends to attack.
It's also false to think the team which sticks the most attackers on the pitch is the most threatening.
Then why do so many managers use late substitutions to bring off midfielders/defenders to bring on attacking players when they need all three points?
That's because unsurprisingly he's being deliberately obtuse. Klopp could have taken off Salah, Coutinho and Firmino and replaced them with Klavan, Robertson and Karius as an outfielder player and STILL been more offensive than Jose even after he chose to bring on Mata, Rashford and Lingard for Whorera, Smalling and Young.
But that's enough words wasted on here for another wind up and/or myopia beyond belief. Jose has lost ground after the weekend, not Liverpool. We are where we deserve to be after yet another shit summer, i.e. 4 points from third place which is the extent of our ambition.
Klopp is turning into a sour and sarcastic idiot, when things don't go his way. Few managers talk so much nonsense. Occasionally it's fun, but doing it all the time makes him look like a moron.
Additionally his work for Liverpool is hardly great. In fact it's quite underwhelming. Overall his team isn't better than the sum of its parts. Laugh all you like about Mou parking the bus, but this Liverpool side is remarkable limited. It's pace of mane and salah coupled with individual brilliance. They press well, but that's the only area where they improved under klopp. They are not well drilled in defence or attack. Even his Dortmund team was tactically more astute.
The easiest way for the opposition to adapt to his style is to sit back. Why should the opposition play into his hand?
I never liked klopp but respected his work. Currently there are many managers in the EPL who make more out of what they have.
Just last weekend Bosz reacted to going down 1-3 and losing Sokratis by using his final sub to take off Philipp for Bartra.
Against Tottenham it was Kagawa for Götze, Dahoud for Castro and Zagadou for Toprak.
When Guardiola was chasing a goal vs Everton his first sub of the match was to take off Jesus for Sterling.
When he needed a goal vs Bournemouth he brought on Sane for Jesus.
Are they cowards as well, trying to defend losing positions even?
Sometimes coaches feel like a change of shape will benefit their team, sometimes they don't and sometimes they have to sub off players who played an important midweek fixture halfway across the world.
I don't think anyone disputes that Klopp can be a sore loser during or immediately after matches, but a lot of what's going on in this thread goes way past that.
Way too often it's like some drama loving journo takes a sound bite completely out of context then someone posts it in this thread, sometimes even misquoting and then people do their best to read what they want to read into that distorted version of a statement.
Like for example if Klopp (or Guardiola/Wenger for that matter) said something like "we didn't play well, lacked precision and the condition of the pitch didn't help either". Some journo then makes the headline "Klopp unhappy with pitch" and this thread is like "omg he blamed the pitch again, can't take responsibility, always someone else's fault".
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You're 8th. After spending how much last window? After a top 4 finish?
And we're after another to for finish and no more because Klopp dicked about in the summer. It happened, we have to move on.
Not sure what you even mean by this? In what sense havent Liverpool lost ground? You mean because you arent in the title race anyway, and several other top 4 contenders lost, so in the race for the top 4 you didnt lose ground?
Are you deliberately missing my point? I'm not saying every substitution he made was cowardly. I'm saying the fact that all three substitutions left him with the same amount of attacking players on the pitch is the issue here. All the more so because bringing the Ox on at FB was such an obvious option. The team would become more attacking without needing to change the system at all.
And to make three late subs without making the team any more attacking is not something that many managers would do in a game where they really needed three points (especially when they didn't have any subs forced by injury).
Never stop being you...
Erm I was thinking about being someone else today.
Not you though. I can only dream of being that big a WUM on here. Thanks for not mocking my stupidity.That is correct.
You don't know how hard it was not saying "no shit Sherlock". Doh.
I'm surprise this is so difficult to grasp.
No one's arguing Mourinho wasn't defensive. He was and has taken a lot of flak on this forum for it.
Thing is, why has Klopp taken no criticism for not going for the win either? We were terrible on the day, sitting back and there for the taking yet all his subs were like for like changes. Why not take off a CM and make it a 2 v 2 match up there and give your team another attacking player? A win over us could have been the big boost your club needed.
To be clear, I don't give a shit about whether or not Klopp gets criticised, my post was simply in response to a meek attempt at dodging a valid point made.