So Wenger is better than Fergie?
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
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So Wenger is better than Fergie?
I didn't say he wasn't a good or lesser manager, I said that people think he's a super one who can win anything.
The actual evidence for Klopp being a better Manager than Mourinho is close to non-existent, it's just saying stuff.
Michael Owen's shooting from outside the box was better than Bobby Charlton.
Dejan Lovren is the best Liverpool player I've ever seen.
John Aldridge is a knowledgeable & impartial pundit.
Michael Owen's shooting from outside the box was better than Bobby Charlton.
Dejan Lovren is the best Liverpool player I've ever seen.
John Aldridge is a knowledgeable & impartial pundit.
At managing expectations/
It's all a bit simplistic. Historically speaking, mourinho is obviously a better manager.
Does not necessarily mean he is presently better or that he is a better working with the current circumstances of their respective clubs. Even great managers are not guaranteed to be an automatic fit for all times and circumstances.
He could also win the title next year with Klopp winning nothing yet and bury the debate. Not a given how any of it will turn out.
Does not necessarily mean he is presently better or that he is a better working with the current circumstances of their respective clubs. Even great managers are not guaranteed to be an automatic fit for all times and circumstances.
He could also win the title next year with Klopp winning nothing yet and bury the debate. Not a given how any of it will turn out.
Good logical question that flowed naturally from the post you quoted
At the moment i find Klopp to be a better manager then Mourinho. He has the passion that Mourinho lost. Obviously. Mourinho has a glorious past that puts him in the all time pantheon.
I am gutted that Klopp did not come to us, as with better budget and not constantly loosing players he could have been great for us. I am sure he would have won trophies with us, while playing great football regardless. We would be pumped up for every game.
I am gutted that Klopp did not come to us, as with better budget and not constantly loosing players he could have been great for us. I am sure he would have won trophies with us, while playing great football regardless. We would be pumped up for every game.
Thats not the point though. Klopp hasn't coped with the loss of Coutinho despite a lack of funds. He's adjusted because he's an excellent manager.
I get that we don't like our manager but this is nonsense and I'm not surprised it's posted by you. Results and achievements are what matter in football and in life. If, and it's a big if, Klopp leads this Liverpool team to CL glory, it'll be an astonishing achievement but right now there's absolutely nothing to show that he's a better manager than Mourinho or Pep etc. These guys have been consistently winning for numerous years.
This belief that playing entertaining football makes you better is garbage. Trophies and success matter, maybe not for you and me, but for the players, the staff, the owners, the corporate men and women, they're in it for the trophies but for some reason half this forum have convinced themselves otherwise.
I'm interested @Varun, what is he implying? You've someone with 25 honour compared to someone with 5, who's better? And why would it not extend to other managers, is Moyes better than Ferguson? I mean David Moyes did a very good job on his shoestring budget at Everton. Ok he did't win trophies, but his net spend was brilliant, so does that mean he's a better manager than Fergie? How about Paul Jewell - he took Wigan to the PL with consecutive promotions on his budget of a few quid, another manager who trumps Fergie?
Sean Dyche won nothing, so he's a nothing manager, right? Or you lot didn't cheer for him to win moty in a separate topic? Double standards?
Also, do you considet Di Matteo as a great manager by your classification? He's definitely better than Ranieri, right?
Klopp has always had inferior squad and funds, but even then he won some trophies. Players and fans like him, even after he leaves.
Also, do you considet Di Matteo as a great manager by your classification? He's definitely better than Ranieri, right?
Klopp has always had inferior squad and funds, but even then he won some trophies. Players and fans like him, even after he leaves.
To be fair the Dortmund team he built and the football they played was fantastic.
He's replicating that with Liverpool. He needs to win something this season though.
Both clubs didn't exactly give him loads to spend. It's a great achievement.
Only problem I have with him is, when he's plan A attack/attack/attack doesn't work (i.e vs a well drilled Bus) he has no option B. That's why Liverpool have dropped points throughout the season. Couple that with their reliance on Salah to score vs defensive teams, if you nullify him, they'll look half as good attacking.
I've no idea what he's implying, it's a stupid post.
Yeah let´s see.
He took Mainz from the lower division and turned them into an established financially sound Bundesliga team.
He took a broke Dortmund and turned them into a top 10 team in the world in great financial shape.
He took a broken Liverpool team and transformed them into one of the most exciting clubs in the world, while being on the verge of securing multiple top 4 finishes and European finals, and making the owners money.
Yeah why would a club hire somebody like that. Seems completely idiotic.
I remember being gutted when they appointed him. The worst that could happen would be a trophyless few years but with amazing, exciting football and some memorable European wins. Sadly it might turn out to be more.
Pound for pound he is one hell of a manager.
Pound for pound he is one hell of a manager.
The latter statement is what differentiates a good team and coach from being perennial winners. I can't help thinking critically of many United campaigns where we were naive, brazen...just not pragmatically conservative enough to not lose ties we should have won.
You have to say in professional football, at the top level (ie CL knockout or a top league campaign) there is an understanding that on it's day, any team can beat any other team. It may be long odds, but it happens with frequency. Shock exits. Shock underdog stories. That's part of what makes the sort so brilliant. And why the flip is harder, when when you have an exceptional team. This season alone you saw the record breaking Premier League champs knocked out a two legged tie by a team almost 20 pts behind and the FA Cup by a lower division team.
You would think that fact wouldnt be lost. Alas some of the garbage being spouted here is incredible. It's a lesson in human psychology, jealousy and revisionist thinking.
Dortmund under Klopp
6th
5th
1st
1st
2nd
2nd
7th
So he took a 'broke' Dortmund team, made them a top team, then 'broke' them back to where they were.
What is it with Pool fans and their delusion about Klopp? What's wrong with just calling him a good manager like he is. Instead you try to cherry pick his career while ignoring all the negatives so you can paint him as one of the best managers in the world.
I guess I just have to accept that there is more leniency to trolling from United fans on a United message board, unless of course you are serious, then I just feel sad for you.
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He relegated Mainz, didn't achieve promotion and then decided to resign. So he took Mainz to where they were and left.
Agree with Dortmund and Liverpool though.
I would say the blame lies with board selling their best players to Bayern.
Mainz never played in the BuLi before Klopp came. Without him, they wouldn't be the club they are today.
Well when he took over Mainz they were in a relegation spot in the 2. Bundesliga at the half way stage of the season. Immediately finished 4th, 4th, 3rd (promotion), established them in the Bundesliga 11th, 11th, 16th (relegation) and then left with a 4th place finish. So yes even at Mainz he left the club in a much better financial and competitive state, admittedly in the same division, which ultimately allowed them to earn promotion again and stay in the Bundesliga ever since. I can´t see how that can´t all be tracked back to Klopp. He´s not without his flaws as a manager, but when it comes to turning around a clubs fortune and re-shaping their whole future on a budget his success is almost unprecedented.
One of the best points I've seen on here.
Its actually incredible how many people ignore this point and don't appear to believe that managers have different levels of "form", passion, tactics etc that work in different teams and different stages. For some reason its "but he has one multiple titles etc as if that means it will always continue to happen.
Its this thinking that didn't serve Bayern well in getting ancelotti.
There you go again. Apparently looking at Klopp's whole time at Dortmund is 'trolling' while picking the middle of his Dortmund time is serious.
This is Rafa Benitez all over again, gets a few top 4 finishes and flukes his way to a CL and Pool fans start acting like he's the best manager in the world. Rafa Benitez also had success with smaller clubs and is a good manager in his own right, but he's nothing special just like Klopp.
The same board that got him those players in the first place? Have you not seen how good dortmund's recruitment is? If the blame lies with the board for selling, then they must also get credit for buying.
No credit to Tuchel who took them back into the Bundesliga in 08/09? And then kept them there till he left in 2014.
Why do so many WUMS post on this forum?
Because it wasn't Tuchel who took them back? He took over after they were back in the 1. BL.
Selling is one thing, selling to your rivals is another. Allowing players to run down contracts so that they leave for free is also why Dortmund have been on the slide.
You don't think he's one of the best managers in the world? Not the best, but one of the top 10, maybe even top 5? Of course he hasn't achieved as much as Mourinho, Pep or Ancelotti, but honestly, who would you choose these days, Carletto or Klopp?
Even if that would be true, so what? What he did with Bvb you could compare with taking team like Tottenham to 2 league titles and CL final and then leave them in the middle of the table. That would be quite an achievement, you don't agree?
Tuchel did mighty fine, but his success would not have been possible without the foundation laid by Klopp.
This place will be a crash course when he fail to win CL in final, or crashing out in 2nd in Rome, or will be unbearable when he actually win CL.
I get that you’re the most anti-Liverpool fan on this forum or at least going for that title but can’t we literally just use the exact same argument for why Mourinho is only a "good" manager.
Mourinho at Chelsea in his second stint 3rd, 1st, 10th. So made them a top team, then 'broke' them to far worse than they were. Nevermind all the other arguments you could use on why Mourinho is only a "good" manager: He took a 2nd place Chelsea team to two titles and then took them back to 2nd. He then went to an Inter team who had just won the league 3 times in a row, won the title with them for two seasons but with lower point tallies than their previous two title wins. Went to Real Madrid finished 2nd with them, won the title then finished 2nd again so took them back to 2nd. Now has come to a United team and got them 6th in their first season while spending £150m even though they finished 5th the previous season. Now for the record before I get loads of United fans jumping down my throat, I do think Mourinho is a world class manager. I'm just trying to make the point that it's not hard to argue he's only a "good" manager when you look at the teams he's taken over and the resources at his disposal at those teams.
What you have to remember is Klopp has only ever been at 3 clubs and none have been "top clubs" and none with anywhere the resources Mourinho has been given so comparing trophies is completely ridiculous. We all know a huge chunk of United fans think Dyche should get Manager of the year and Pep shouldn't because of the resources he's been given but isn't that basically just the same as to comparing Klopp and Mourinho's respective past clubs in terms of resources? Dyche has won nothing and Pep won the league and League Cup but way more respect is being shown to Dyche.
Klopp is a very different manager to Mourinho and what he's achieved at the clubs he's been at has been fantastic and I'm certainly hoping for similar things at Liverpool. Taking Mainz to their first ever Bundesliga campaign and holding them there for 2 more seasons was an incredible achievement and definitely correlates with their solidity now in the Bundesliga. Mainz's previous 4 seasons before Klopp were 10th, 7th, 9th and 14th in his first season he got them 4th, then 4th again then got them promoted. Then we look at after he leaves and they get 2nd in Budesliga 2 and are still in the top flight to this day. Yeah alright definitely a large chunk of the credit goes to the manager who took them back up but it was mainly Klopp's players who got them promoted so clearly he laid down the foundations for them to be a solid top flight team. Then we move on to Dortmund's 4 previous seasons there 7th, 7th, 6th, 13th before Klopp took over. He took that team to back to back Bundesliga titles within 3 years and then got them 2nd twice. Admittedly the players didn't perform under him in the final season but as I said earlier, same thing happened with Chelsea players and Mourinho, doesn't change him being a top manager. Then look at after he leaves 2nd, 3rd and probably 2nd or 3rd this season. He took them from a struggling midtable Bundesliga team to a title winning team and left the foundations for them to continue being a top 3 Bundesliga team. What he's achieved in terms of trophies doesn't at all represent how good of a job he's done at his previous clubs. He doesn't take the same sort of jobs as Mourinho where it's far easier to get trophies, he takes challenges and wants to transform teams. The 2015/16 Liverpool team he took over compared to now are worlds apart. There are definitely still areas to improve of course but in 2014/15 when we finished 6th and how dreadful our team was if you'd told me we'd get back to back top 4's and a UCL final in the 2017/18 season I wouldn't have thought you were insane but that is honestly looking incredibly likely right now.
Like I said, I get your anti-Liverpool and refuse to ever give credit where credit's due but I don't have any doubt in my mind that Klopp is a world class manager, just like Mourinho, they just prefer different types of managerial jobs.
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I mean he took over the club when it finished 13th, had massive amounts of debt, not much of a squad to go on and basically no tactical foundation. And he left the club inside the top 8 UEFA club ranking, debt free, with 2.5 times the turnover and a squad that finished 2nd with the highest points total ever the following season, a clear philosophy and one of the best reputations in Europe when it comes to talents. But sure he left them back where they were.
To anyone who has even an ounce of understanding about this topic the point you're trying to make would be either trolling or very very embarassing.
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You guys have to atleast know what you're talking about when you squirm in your pants attempting to diminish what Klopp has done. As has been pointed out, Tuchel did not get Mainz promoted.
How do you not know these? And if you don't, why on earth would you so sardonically call others WUMs while embarrassing yourself in the same post?
He joined after they got promoted, but still had a tough job on his hands, which he did really well. Thanks for educating that poster.
Are you aware of Dortmund's situation before Klopp took over?
Took you a while but glad you are on the wagon.. Welcome.
I agree, I think he is a great manager but a winner?
Plus he is so OTT that it boggles the mind.. I just think he works perfectly for Liverpool..
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You are confusing football with life. You don't have to have power and wealth, treating people with respect and bringing you're kids up to be decent human beings is what it means to be successful life.
Sport is about winning and being number one, that is why it's called competition. How you play the game is an amateurish way to look at it when the objective is to be the last team or player standing. To make it and compete on a professional level in sport is its own reward after the dedication of hoeing you're skills and talent along with countless hours of training. But to be the best you must be winning medals and trophies on a consistent basis. Otherwise you are just the best on that day, week, month or year.
Klopp has done well at the clubs he has coached/managed. But comparing him to Jose is not fair to both. Jose is a winner and has proved it with multiple clubs while Klopp has shown his attacking style of play with every team he has managed.
The one thing that Klopp doesn't get which Jose gets in abundance is the relentless media pressure. Let's see how he reacts when he is in the firing line.
The one thing that Klopp doesn't get which Jose gets in abundance is the relentless media pressure. Let's see how he reacts when he is in the firing line.
lol! So what is the measure of success for a manager?
most people here must no that Klopp didnt sign or sell the players at Dortmond right ? so the money aspect had nothing to do with him, not sure how its done it pool with the transfers but also read he was no keen on Salah as well but the board had to convince him, worked a treat who ever done the deal. his club record is similar to Jose in a way, comes in his success then fades away again, hopefully pool fade away next season as my mates are doing my nut in this season.