Nah. More that he's become jaded with the relentless negativity this place now offers up at every single opportunity. And instead of joining in with the 'sky is falling' philosophy, he instead makes light of it (not talking about this case specifically). It would be nice if we had more people who didn't take every single slither of news, particularly that relating to our club, as a scathing insult to their own existence.
Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?
- Thread starter Eboue
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
No idea mate, I've almost seen nothing of Wilt let alone his competitors, and quite a lot of Magic but it's difficult to comment on the amount of talent in the league back then. I admire Magic because of his own versatility and his all-around career and impact, just like Bryant actually. Can't really comment on Kareem or Wilt, let alone their opponents...
I would love it if Kobe becomes the new logo, I know West doesn't really like it anyway.
If you lock out the top 3 as Pele, Maradona, Messi that people traditionally say, then the Bryant equivalent is someone in the next group. Maybe not C. Ronaldo, but like a Zidane, Cruyff, Charlton. Has the personal stats, has the titles, has a distinctive style of play (although much copied from Michael Jordan).
I agree on Magic and Wilt being next, just don't seem as unanimous to people as the top 3 I mentioned. Also agree with the names for the next batch, and personally from an effectiveness standpoint I rate Shaq above Kobe. He was just such a dominant force in his prime years.
I thought about this too. West doesn't care about it for sure and it would be quite poetic from one Lakers legend to another. Would be a really nice gesture for sure.
I'd say Kobe had a greater impact on the sport.
@Eboue has him in top 15-20
Easily top 10, possibly top 5. An argument can be made for top 3 although I'd say that's a stretch. As far as winning mentalities go, there's just MJ ahead of him imo. Please don't bring up Russell who played in a different era.
Just the one goat and they call me ...........
The people who raised the point about Kobe’s alleged rape can do so while still acknowledging that it was tragic that lives were lost in this incident. You obviously know that and I find it disturbing that you’ve tried to twist what people have been saying because they’ve highlighted something negative about a basketballer you liked.
I could argue that I find it insensitive that people are eulogising about a rapist just because he was very good at basketball. I don’t because I understand that people have come to different conclusions about the incident.
Stop the original thread becoming a shit show I assume?
I've mentioned before that we already do that here with threads like the player performances one. And before we had MOTM as a feature of the forum, there used to be threads where you couldn't write anything other than your MOTM. Some people act like this is new and on top of that have the audacity to call it censorship.
But why? Why does that particular thread have to be limited to nothing but positive discussion? That isn’t the standard approach to these things.
Anyway it’s done now and I wasn’t particularly bothered one way or the other it just made no sense to me how people were losing their minds over the questionable stuff being discussed.
The thread was turning into a shit show earlier. Emotions are high, and people might end up getting into these long drawn out fights and turn it ugly. Look at it now that we have two threads — far less toxic and more reasonable.
Because the victim withdrew cooperation with the police after weeks of having shit thrown at her and eventually they paid her off. The physical evidence was convincing and a coworker confirmed she told him about the attack immediately after it happened and Bryant more or less publicly admitted it.
No idea TBH. I am just assuming it was for that reason.
And I agree with your second paragraph.
@Eboue has him in top 15-20
Easily top 10, possibly top 5. An argument can be made for top 3 although I'd say that's a stretch. As far as winning mentalities go, there's just MJ ahead of him imo. Please don't bring up Russell who played in a different era.
I'm right though
Either that or because she didn't repeat her accusations in a actual court. She could have pushed for criminal justice despite settling the civil case, she didn't.
But obviously there's those who think a black athlete would always get a fair shake in a trial and that any settlement to avoid a trial is always 100% proof of his guilt. And on the day of his death they come out of the woodwork to tell the world of how certain they are.
Technically, if someone is in the top 3, he's also in the top 15–20.
I for one can’t believe anyone would bring up the rape accusations on the day that people are universally talking about Kobe Bryant. Why not, for instance, wait until several months from now when no one is talking about Kobe anymore to bring it up that way anyone talking about Kobe now won’t have to see it. That’s the only fair way to address this complicated figure. In the meantime please let me yell Kobe, guilt free, any time I throw something away.
Hes nowhere near the top 5.
Interesting what you say about standards.
I put him at #2. Yeah I said that. Big whoop. Want to fight about it?
I don't think it was time to talk about that kind of thing.
With almost everything it can be used the "freedom of expression" but there are certain moments when general sadness should prevail, the amazement that people feel in one way or another(probably more than one shed a tear).
It looks like a humiliation to his person and therefore causes anger in the most senses.
As I think I read in this thread, let the body get cold at least.
With almost everything it can be used the "freedom of expression" but there are certain moments when general sadness should prevail, the amazement that people feel in one way or another(probably more than one shed a tear).
It looks like a humiliation to his person and therefore causes anger in the most senses.
As I think I read in this thread, let the body get cold at least.
I'm not sure victims of sexual assault will think it is fair not to mention the rape incident when discussing him now.
I’m pretty tired so I’m probably being stupid but not sure what you mean mate?
We seem to have dissent over which is the standard, that's all.
To be fair you started quite disastrously when you speculated that the victim could be a clout chaser and stick him with a false accusation without any concrete ground, that was sure to raise some hackles
Rape victims overwhelmingly don’t get justice for that which they are subjected to. There’s far more than just him settling with the victim that leads people to believe he was a rapist.
Regarding the second bolded part, I’m not sure why this point keeps being raised. If someone is of the belief that he was a rapist, then surely when everyone is taking about how amazing he was that’s a perfectly valid time to point out what he did.
I was being sarcastic. The whole "not today" argument almost always just means "never".
Yes, speculation. As in, it's a possible scenario. I didn't accuse her of being one and I certainly didn't bring it up as if I was convinced she was, unlike some of the posts about Kobe. I also used clout chaser because I was replying to Eboue and he says that a lot.
As far as "false accusation" goes, the poster invoked my name in a comment that I didn't even say and inaccurately misrepresented my point. That's concrete enough. If there was any confusion over what I meant, he could have replied to me and asked. But no, he went on tagging me to make his point.
As a non fan the only basketball players i have ever heard off have been Jordan , Le Bron and Kobe for playing , Magic for getting aids and Shaquille for making terrible rap songs
And ironically it's the same media that smeared her that makes him responsible for her getting smeared. Like a 24 year old basketball player orchestrates the national media.
Go ahead. There's her testimony and the dismissal of the case, and a bunch of journalists now rewriting history.
Alright, but I can accuse them of being racists (any accused black man is always guilty, right? White woman raped by black man? Obviously only her testimony counts. Even when the court dismissed the case). And now would be the perfect time to do it.
I wouldn't mind any of this if he had actually been found guilty. But against all odds he wasn't. But that doesn't stop some of you lot (and the media) acting as if he was.
I obviously wasn't concentrating. With most 'now is not the right time" justifications the actual desire is for it to never be discussed.
Of course not. It is the high priced lawyers and PR firms that do that.
Yeah the US media (Murdoch and all the others) conspired with a 24 year old nba player known for his selfishness to get him of the hook for raping a well to do 19 year old.
I understand why the media blame him for their smearing of her these days, but why do you?
Stop it
His lawyers were bringing up her sex life. Hes not the victim here
His lawyers were defending their client. Blaming him or his lawyers for whatever the media wrote about her is ridiculous. (again I understand why the media keeps saying this, but grown adults, some of you old enough to remember this, c'mon).
https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-...ce-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession
The fact that you think her testimony is the only factor in the case against him shows that you haven’t looked into this incident at all. I can understand why women are so hesitant to come forward in these situations when folk like yourself are so eager to label them liars without a thimble of due diligence.
The vast majority of rapists don’t end up being found guilty. Of reported rapes less than 2% get taken to court. Factor in that supposedly only 4% of reported rape claims are false then it’s fair to assume that there are many rapists walking around without a criminal conviction. If you commit rape you are overwhelmingly likely to not face justice.
If someone weighs up the evidence and comes to the conclusion that he’s innocent then that’s their right and I’m not going to judge them for it. But keeping in mind the statistics I’ve just given, her physical injuries, his police testimony, the fact that he was found to have lied about details of the incident on numerous occasions,
his settlement, his apology that included him saying that he understood why she felt that she hadn’t consented and her testimony, then I think it’s easy to understand why some have come to the verdict that he is a rapist, despite no criminal conviction.
It's not ridiculous. What they did was reprehensible.