Griezmann misses an easy 1-on-1 after a great through ball from Vela, should've been La Real's 2nd of the game...
La Liga 2013-2014
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The foul count for Arbeloa is getting out of order now, double-figures anyone?
Chelsea 1-2 behind at home against West Brom 
Hattrick for Ronaldo - nicely flighted freekick.
He's too good. Deserves to win the Ballon d'Or this year based on how good he's been this season, third hat trick this year already
Ronaldo you sexy bastard! 
He's too good. Deserves to win the Ballon d'Or this year based on how good he's been this season, third hat trick this year already
Mental. He's a machine.
The crowd are acually applauding Benzema as he goes off - his luck's changing
Real Sociedad should've had 3 goals already but Diego López is a lot better than Bravo, unfortunately for them...
Ouch - impressive miss from Morata from a nice setup by Ronaldo.
He's too good. Deserves to win the Ballon d'Or this year based on how good he's been this season, third hat trick this year already
So the most prestigious individual footballing award in the world should now be based solely on amount of goals scored? Not even how, when, where and against whom they are scored, but simply how much are scored? Might as well just change it into a goalscoring award then...
Is this a serious post? He's been one of the best players this year. It's between him and Messi
wrong thread
And yet whenever anyone in recent weeks has offered up Cristiano as BdO winner for 2013 all they've referred to is his goals (as in the post I was replying to, i.e. "third hat trick this year already") or not even offered a reasoning at all (just blanket statements such as "surely he should win it", "can't see beyond him now", etc.)... I'd like to know what exactly/specifically puts his achievements and performances this year so much ahead of Ribéry's or Messi's?
He has a good body (no homo) and has just opened a new underwear line in addition to his goals. Deserves it imo
IMO, Ribéry has had the better year. He's been more of a team player - his work against in every competition he's played in this year has been immense. His defensive work in the CL has not been matched by Ronaldo and Messi. But, to disregard Ronaldo's achievements as merely a goal scorer is a bit too far and perpetual. Any other year where Messi has been better and I'd agree with you, but the fact is Messi has had a decent year, without stringing together spectacular elements. The gap between him and Ronaldo has been reduced because of the injuries and anyone who has him above Ronaldo or Ribéry for that matter, hasn't watched enough of him in 2013...
If this question needs to be asked then you clearly don't watch Ronaldo. Messi and Ronaldo, based on individual play, are the 2 best players in the world, unquestionably. Messi has had a below par year but still scored loads of goals, and goals win you games. Ribery is part of the discussion because Bayern won the treble last season, but he hasn't been as good as Ronaldo this season, neither has Messi. It's an award for the best player for the calendar year, and during during these last few months, Ronaldo has been far ahead of the rest.
Also, saying "another hat-trick" implies basically another performance where he was the best player on the pitch and led his team again. If you actually watched though, you would have noticed that he assisted Benzema's goal, made the penalty and then put it on a plate for Morata at the end to get another even though he missed. He's not just a goalscorer, and it's pretty insulting to him to say he's just that.
We played so tenatively against this lot, we should've gone for it a bit more.
In 2013, it's clear as day that Ronaldo has been better than both Messi and Ribery individually, Ribery has the big advantage of having won trophies. It's not a contest between Messi and Ronaldo, Ronaldo has outperformed him. Messi may have more natural talent and may be more pleasing to the eye on top form, it doesn't mean Ronaldo hasn't been better than him this year.
I agree. That said, much as I love watching Ronaldo, I'd give it to Ribery. However, I'd also have given it to Iniesta or Xavi or even Sneidjer for 2010 - it had been the year of the "team" and that's how the award should have been made. Which means it's inevitable that Messi will win it again this year.
"If this question needs to be asked then you clearly don't watch Ronaldo."
I watch La Liga week in, week out and I try to keep up most Champions League (and Europa League) games too. Dito for international games. I doubt very much that I "clearly don't watch Ronaldo".
Messi and Ronaldo, based on individual play, are the 2 best players in the world, unquestionably.
Why is it unquestionable, because you're telling me it is? These past few seasons they've been so caught up in their goalscoring race that a lot of other aspects of their game have become neglected or been banished to the periphery. To give you a clue of what I speak (and I'm basing this off my own viewing experiences but will use statistics to back up my point):
(figures apply to La Liga only)
- Cristiano's dribbling has cut down considerably: from 3.1 successful dribbles per game in 2009/10 to 1.7 successful dribbles per game in 2012/13 and so far this season; which basically means he's halved his amount of successful dribbles per game. (3.1 in 09/10, 2.2 in 10/11, 1.9 in 11/12, 1.7 in 12/13 and 13/14 so far)
- conversly, he has been steadily taking a larger percentage of his team's total number of shots (from being around 1/4th to over 1/3rd, to nearing half of them so far this season); how do you reconcile this fact with the aforementioned trend in his dribbling? The most logical extrapolation is that he ISN'T creating these shooting chances himself, but that they are being created for him. The same applies to Messi by the way, from around 1/4th of his team's shots between 2009 and 2011 to 1/3rd since then (although his dribbling hasn't cut down by 50%).
Ribéry formed a key integral part of that Bayern team though, especially offensively, but also with a huge defensive workload which paid off in the crucial games (CL semi and final). He's also stood out far more for France than Messi for Arg or Cristiano for Portugal, as far as the year 2013 is concerned.
and during during these last few months, Ronaldo has been far ahead of the rest...
...in scoring goals, yes. Where was he in both of Portugal's draws against Israel this year? Where was he against Dortmund in the CL semi-final when they needed 1 more goal to reach the final? Where was he against Atlético in the Copa final at the end of last season? Where was he against Barcelona and Atlético this season? How do you explain these performances, if he was so far ahead of the rest? (both him and Messi failed ultimately) In fact, this season he's been outshone by Diego Costa so far (similar goal tally, 13 in 12 in the league, but with actual dominant performances to go alongside them -- as he's playing for a side that doesn't have the basis for him to have 8 shots per game!). His CL scoring form, however incredibly insane it is, isn't even unique at the moment! He has 8 goals in 4 games, Ibra has 7 in 4 and Messi 6 in 3. Only a few seasons ago these amounts would win you a CL top scorer award, now there's already 3 players in 3 different groups being similarly prolific. That, to me, says more about the level of their own teams and their opponents than their individual qualities...
Also, saying "another hat-trick" implies basically another performance where he was the best player on the pitch and led his team again.
This is the point of conflict for me; you're basically saying that only goals matter. No point in trying to convince you that a player who scored a hat-trick isn't automatically the best player on the pitch, but I'll try anyway.
If you actually watched though, you would have noticed that he assisted Benzema's goal, made the penalty and then put it on a plate for Morata at the end to get another even though he missed.
He did assist Benzema's goal, but it was a very easy pass to make and in fact a lot harder to score for Benzema than it was for Cristiano to make that pass. Benzema put in a nicely weighted one before that, over the top of the defense which Cristiano took down a little clumsily but still managed to blast into the goal from a tight angle and at close range, but was his finish any harder than Benzema's pass to him? He "made" the penalty? Yes, he tried to cross a ball which ended up hitting a Real Sociedad defender on the hand and was very harshly given as a pen. (very close range, defender had his arm on the floor already before the cross came in). That's his 6th penalty so far by the way, most players don't even get that many in a season (a lot of them were dubious, Elche, Juventus, this one). The cross for Morata was perfect, and he should've converted it, but it's not like Cristiano created that opportunity all by himself as he was put through behind the defense by Modric (I believe?) and then just simply did there what most players are capable of in that situation. His free-kick was good (esp. the pace and spin on it, not so much the placement), but not that great that Bravo shouldn't have even tried to save it.
Watching the game itself Modric and Benzema were also excellent just like Cristiano. Looking at the stats for the game; Modric ran the show, playing the most passes on his team and laying on 4 shooting chances for the forward players. Bale created 3 such chances and Benzema and Cristiano both made 2. Cristiano took 8 shots for his 3 goals, Benzema 3 for his 1. Both performed 0 succesful dribbles...
Maybe my standards are too high, but I don't find that particularly impressive given that he, as one of the best players of the past decade, should have a lot more in his locker than just finishing moves created for him (the free-kick and his 2 key passes were good examples of that all-roundedness that he clearly has but just doesn't need/use for the majority of games because he's being provided for).
Yes, unfortunately. Messi should never have won the 2012 one, while his record-shattering goalscoring exploits were impressive, they ultimately achieved nothing. He was also poor or average when it mattered, same as Cristiano this year. For 2012, Cristiano, Iniesta and Pirlo all deserved it more than Messi IMO. For 2013, I think it should be between Ribéry and Messi, with a clear advantage to Ribéry, considering the treble, considering big games, his overall play and importance to the team on more levels than just finishing the goals & also considering his NT performances.
Yet another blanket "it's clear as day that Ronaldo has been better..." pops up. In what sense has he outperformed Messi in 2013? By losing the league title by a 15-point margin? By scoring less goals in more games, taking more penalties and more shots, scoring a smaller percentage of his team's goals while taking a larger percentage of its shots than Messi (last season)? By failing to beat Atlético for the first time since 1999, in their own stadium, twice (one of which being the Copa final, the other meaning his team are trailling them in the league table)? By securing a 50/50 shot at qualifying for the WC out of a very easy group whilst playing for a NT that has reached 1 final & 2 semi's in major tourneys in the past decade? By scoring decisive goals in the CL knock-outs right up until they actually had a shot at qualifying for the final (i.e. needing 1 goal to go through on away goals); Messi had equally decisive goals and performances in that sense (Milan comeback, PSG away & esp. home as a sub), right until he got injured and his team got destroyed, once with him and once without him. Or was it also the awful RM defence holding Cristiano back when they beat Dortmund 2-0 in the 2nd leg?
...
Yeah, sorry to derail, although its relevance is tied to La Liga anyway as most people here seem to make up their mind that he deserves the BdO on the back of scoring goals in La Liga every week...
Let me ask this: would any of you have felt as if he was worthy of the BdO at the end of the previous season and by what distance compared to Ribéry and Messi? If not, then how can you justify him being on a hot scoring streak in a fairly unimportant part of the season and still only being 3rd in the league (failing to have an impact against the two teams above them) and failing to directly qualify his NT for the WC suddenly being enough to put him at #1...? What if Sweden knock Portugal out? Then we'd have a BdO winner who couldn't even get one of the top10 NT's in the world qualified from a group containing Russia, Israel, N.Ireland, Azerbaijan and Luxembourg.
If he keeps his current form up and puts in a great performance against Sweden (and qualifies) then I would reconsider my stance, but currently I just don't see him as the number #1 candidate, let alone undisputed.
Let me ask this: would any of you have felt as if he was worthy of the BdO at the end of the previous season and by what distance compared to Ribéry and Messi? If not, then how can you justify him being on a hot scoring streak in a fairly unimportant part of the season and still only being 3rd in the league (failing to have an impact against the two teams above them) and failing to directly qualify his NT for the WC suddenly being enough to put him at #1...? What if Sweden knock Portugal out? Then we'd have a BdO winner who couldn't even get one of the top10 NT's in the world qualified from a group containing Russia, Israel, N.Ireland, Azerbaijan and Luxembourg.
If he keeps his current form up and puts in a great performance against Sweden (and qualifies) then I would reconsider my stance, but currently I just don't see him as the number #1 candidate, let alone undisputed.
@ Skorenzy: It's my opinion anyway, no amount of huge paragraphs, stats, pointless argument from you is gonna make me change it. I'm not the only who thinks like that so maybe you should learn to accept that some people have a different opinion to yours. Everyone doesn't need to convinced with huge posts.
This is why I hate saying anything about any of Messi/Ronaldo, a fan of either is bound to take things too seriously.
This is why I hate saying anything about any of Messi/Ronaldo, a fan of either is bound to take things too seriously.
fecking hell. Can we have just one thread for all this award nonsense? 6-7 years ago no one gave a feck about this award on here.
How was bale today?
They're clearly the two best players on the planet. Anyone who can't see that is clueless.
I'm not trying to convince anyone? I'm actually just asking why you (and others) have this opinion. I'm trying to gather the reasoning behind it, because nobody has bothered to actually spell it out. Just saying "clearly player X is the best" without any further explanation isn't really offering much of a debate is it? I don't mean to come across as hostile (and the length of my post is just a consequence of me droning on
) as all I'm doing is questioning these opinions, which surely everyone is entitled to do?, and giving my own reasons why I agree/disagree.I usually don't much debate them either for the same reason (and will probably refrain from doing so again, as some of the replies to my posts have already proven this to be a futile topic for debate), but IMO this isn't about them really, it's about who has been the best player in 2013 which happens to involve them.
If you don't want to discuss it, then fair enough, but that shouldn't mean someone couldn't question your opinion on the matter.
True, but the gap IMO is closing game by game. Aguero and Suarez have really stepped up this season although it remains to be seen whether its sustainable.
They're not even close.
Probably because it's so obvious why they're the best. Do you not watch Ronaldo and messi play football? Look at the consistency with which they win matches? Someone said Suarez and aguero. It's a laughable comparison. Last time Ronaldo played in the same league he scored 40 plus goals and made defenses looks silly. And he's gotten even better at madrid. And messi, those players aren't fit to shine his boots I'm afraid. It's an insult to him to compare him to aguero and Suarez.I'm not trying to convince anyone? I'm actually just asking why you (and others) have this opinion. I'm trying to gather the reasoning behind it, because nobody has bothered to actually spell it out. Just saying "clearly player X is the best" without any further explanation isn't really offering much of a debate is it? I don't mean to come across as hostile (and the length of my post is just a consequence of me droning on
I usually don't much debate them either for the same reason (and will probably refrain from doing so again, as some of the replies to my posts have already proven this to be a futile topic for debate), but IMO this isn't about them really, it's about who has been the best player in 2013 which happens to involve them.
If you don't want to discuss it, then fair enough, but that shouldn't mean someone couldn't question your opinion on the matter.
I think this is very important. If the voting hasn't been done yet, then there is a strong possibility that should Portugal lose on aggregate against Sweden, then it will count against him. Their group was easy enough to have strolled it, and if it wasn't for Postiga (a player that was heavily criticised in the last European Championships I believe) then Portugal may not have qualified. It is clear that when you are surrounded by good players, then it makes your job a great deal easier, but when you are surrounded by average players then, the job becomes even more difficult. I am a fan of Messi, but I think if you take both him and Ronaldo out of their comfort zones, they are considered average. When I think about it, this puts Maradona on an even higher pedestal since he was capable of playing for an average team, in a league where defence was more important than attack, and still managed to win trophies with Napoli. For me, for all their worth could not do what he had done, not in a million years. La Liga, after all is a league where two teams are capable of scoring nearly 250+ goals between them in a season, which is ridiculous. Either they are great goalscorers or the defenders really are terrible. It is wrong to compare eras, but put either Messi or Ronaldo in Serie A, playing for Napoli in the the 1980s, and they wouldn't have scored even one quarter of the goals they have today.
I didn't know we rated players on the basis of starts to the season.
Btw, Ronaldo has still been better even if we just take (short) this purple patch period of agueros. I do rate aguero but short burst of playing at a very high level means feck all really.
He is worthy of of it. So is Messi, so is Ribery. It's really only between those 3. My guess it will be Messi again that gets it, Ronaldo 2nd and Ribery 3rd. Ribery will get the UEFA award.
What if Sweden knocks Portugal out? He's part of a team. He isn't the only one. His particular country hasn't got a goal scorer besides him and has very few creative players. Their defense is alright. It's not a very good national team in all honesty. Not as good as England. If you take Ronaldo out of it then it would drop significantly. Argentina without Messi would still be a contender. Agüero, Tevez, Higuain, Lavezzi. Those are some of the forward options. Portugal have Helder Postiga leading the line. A supposed top team in the world with worse striker options than Iceland.
The most important aspect of football is goal scoring. Without it you can't win. The goal of the game game (pardon the pun) is to score more goals than the opposition. There's no one in the world better than Ronaldo at it. Only one that is his equal. Look back to the era before those two started scoring like that. It's ridiculous. You had one player now and again with a good season. No one is close to this consistency in the near modern era. Pele scored more but he also played in a world cup final where the teams both played 3-2-5. I wouldn't mind see what kind of goal scoring Messi and Ronaldo would be capable of if teams played that way still.
To get back on track, Real just destroyed Real Sociedad. We've just recently played twice against them ourselves and struggled. Sociedad will contest for the 4th place again this season. At least for the next few months. There usually are a few teams going for that spot until February-March and then some of them go into a lull. I think the contest for a European spot will be very interesting. Hopefully Atlético Madrid can keep up for a long time as well to keep the title race very interesting. Haven't gotten that 3rd party now in long time. They will play the other sputnik team, Villarreal, tomorrow right after the United game so I will be easily glued to the tv for those 4 hours.
Barca has got a seemingly easy away game. Betis are always tough nut to crack for the big teams so they might be able to get a draw but I don't see it considering Barca's form at the moment. They look efficient. A bit of touch and go for some moments but no screw ups so far this season.
It's a bit weird seeing last season's 7th and 8th placed teams in the bottom two.
Hence I said its questionable whether they'll sustain their form but on current form(short burst or not) they've been as close as anyone has been in the past 4 years.