Liverpool

GlastonSpur said:
You're ignoring the Moyes factor + the massive rebuild facing you in the summer without the lure of CL football to help attract the best players. Chelsea never had to deal with such things when they finished 6th and Manchester City have never finished outside the top 4 since their sugar daddy arrived and first established them as a top 4 side.

You are being wildly optimistic .... similar to the general state of denial amongst United fans last summer
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There is no massive rebuild, we just need to sign a capable manager. The rest of the squad is easily good enough for a title challenge, provided someone capable sets the tactics. You are also delusional if you think the appeal of our name, coupled with the wages we can offer if we chose to will result in us missing out on the best players.
 
Rory's quite an aggressive chap isn't he?
 
MJJ said:
There is no massive rebuild, we just need to sign a capable manager. The rest of the squad is easily good enough for a title challenge, provided someone capable sets the tactics. You are also delusional if you think the appeal of our name, coupled with the wages we can offer if we chose to will result in us missing out on the best players.
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No massive rebuild? You'll probably need to replace - whether because they are already committed to leaving, or will likely want to leave, or are retiring, or are surplus to requirements - Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Ferdinand, Kagawa, Hernandez, Nani and very possibly one of Rooney/RvP. That's 8 players minimum, and very likely it'll be more than that .... even forgetting that Carrick will be 33 before the season kicks off.

Besides, the best players of all will go to the likes of B. Munich, Chelsea, Man. City, R. Madrid, Barcelona and other big teams in the CL - so you'll be left with over-paying to try and get what's left.
 
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Gerrard has been excellent in the DM position, apparently many said he didn't have the tactical knowledge/intelligence to play that role but so far he is proving doubters wrong.
 
Glad to see Teixeira get a game also big big talent, don't think we will the league but this season has been promising regardless.
 
Skywarden said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone has questioned that, statistically speaking?

One thing that's going to be interesting to see is the players you'll attract with Champions League football and more money to throw around. You already have a good system in place which is more than what we've managed.
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There's a train of thought that suggests that we have a 'wafer-thin squad' & we'll need to bulk it up considerably should we qualify for the CL. I don't subscribe to that opinion. We certainly need a couple more top quality players to compliment the likes of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, & Sterling. & I think we'll get those in the summer. But we have a few young lads doing very well out on loan at other clubs. Suso at Almeria. Andre Wisdom is doing a great job, & is highly thought of, at Derby County. Ryan McLaughlin our young Northern Irish right-back has just gone to Barnsley. Then we have Assaidi currently at Stoke City. He'd be an excellent player to bring off the bench should we need something different. Add to that the fact that we've got an entire back four - Johnson, Agger, Sakho, & Enrique - all out through injury (although all 4 are not far off returning). Lucas is another one of course who's missed a large part of the season through injury. I also think we'll see a lot more of the young lad Teixeira, who made his debut last night.

So all in all, we're not in a bad position squad wise. & like you say, we've got the foundations of a very good system, along with some youngsters who know the system. So with a couple of good signings in the summer, there's a possibility we may be able to build on what we've done this season.
 
GlastonSpur said:
No massive rebuild? You'll probably need to replace - whether because they are already committed to leaving, or will likely want to leave, or are retiring, or are surplus to requirements - Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Ferdinand, Kagawa, Hernandez, Nani and very possibly one of Rooney/RvP. That's 8 players minimum, and very likely it'll be more than that .... even forgetting that Carrick will be 33 before the season kicks off.
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Janu. is replacing nani already, we have three young cbs just waiting to take over from ferdinand. Kagawa has never player more than a bit part role for united so far and hernandez is our fourth choice striker currently. A role that will be made redundant if we go for one striker up top. Am sure we will struggle to replace our star performer giggs who has played every match so far.

In all likelihood, we will need one CB i.e. if we dont promote micheal keane, one LB, two midfielders and maybe a winger.

So four players max., maybe five if we sold RVP/Rooney. I dont see us selling two of our four strikers anyway.
 
retardman5 said:
There's a train of thought that suggests that we have a 'wafer-thin squad' & we'll need to bulk it up considerably should we qualify for the CL. I don't subscribe to that opinion. We certainly need a couple more top quality players to compliment the likes of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, & Sterling. & I think we'll get those in the summer. But we have a few young lads doing very well out on loan at other clubs. Suso at Almeria. Andre Wisdom is doing a great job, & is highly thought of, at Derby County. Ryan McLaughlin our young Northern Irish right-back has just gone to Barnsley. Then we have Assaidi currently at Stoke City. He'd be an excellent player to bring off the bench should we need something different. Add to that the fact that we've got an entire back four - Johnson, Agger, Sakho, & Enrique - all out through injury (although all 4 are not far off returning). Lucas is another one of course who's missed a large part of the season through injury. I also think we'll see a lot more of the young lad Teixeira, who made his debut last night.

So all in all, we're not in a bad position squad wise. & like you say, we've got the foundations of a very good system, along with some youngsters who know the system. So with a couple of good signings in the summer, there's a possibility we may be able to build on what we've done this season.
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Agree with all of that.
 
MJJ said:
Janu. is replacing nani already, we have three young cbs just waiting to take over from ferdinand. Kagawa has never player more than a bit part role for united so far and hernandez is our fourth choice striker currently. A role that will be made redundant if we go for one striker up top. Am sure we will struggle to replace our star performer giggs who has played every match so far.

In all likelihood, we will need one CB i.e. if we dont promote micheal keane, one LB, two midfielders and maybe a winger.

So four players max., maybe five if we sold RVP/Rooney. I dont see us selling two of our four strikers anyway.
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midfield has been our main concern and that will be addressed in the summer. expect two solid players coming in. RVP and Rooney will be here for sure. Our main concern is Moyes. But that will be addressed if it does not work out by next season.
 
Red Dreams said:
midfield has been our main concern and that will be addressed in the summer. expect two solid players coming in. RVP and Rooney will be here for sure. Our main concern is Moyes. But that will be addressed if it does not work out by next season.
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Yup, as long as we get a functioning midfield again, the rest of the issues wont look this serious. Right now, everyone in the team looks bad due to outdated tactics, low confidence and a poor midfield.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Define 'long term'.

You're stuck with Moyes as manager, will lose out on CL revenue and prestige next season, and face a massive rebuild in the summer with many players departing, very possibly including Rooney and/or RvP.

The ways things are shaping up you could easily miss out on CL money for several seasons to come, which would obviously have major knock-on effects in terms of sponsorship deals.
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You're being overly dramatic here, Glaston.

You're making it sound as if one season out of the CL is a catastrophe. It's not, certainly not for a club, like United. They have a huge fan base across the globe, tremendous commercial income and still possess a quality squad, which, granted, needs serious improvement in certain areas. They can easily afford a season out of the CL, probably even a few, without losing their appeal and ability to get back onto the perch, so to speak. They also can afford to hold onto their best players because they've got money and one Europe-less season won't change that. They can also still add top quality players, with Mata being a perfect example.

Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about United's misfortunes, but they aren't going anywhere.
 
GlastonSpur said:
No massive rebuild? You'll probably need to replace - whether because they are already committed to leaving, or will likely want to leave, or are retiring, or are surplus to requirements - Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Ferdinand, Kagawa, Hernandez, Nani and very possibly one of Rooney/RvP. That's 8 players minimum, and very likely it'll be more than that .... even forgetting that Carrick will be 33 before the season kicks off.

Besides, the best players of all will go to the likes of B. Munich, Chelsea, Man. City, R. Madrid, Barcelona and other big teams in the CL - so you'll be left with over-paying to try and get what's left.
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This is my big worry.
 
antihenry said:
You're being overly dramatic here, Glaston.

You're making it sound as if one season out of the CL is a catastrophe. It's not, certainly not for a club, like United. They have a huge fan base across the globe, tremendous commercial income and still possess a quality squad, which, granted, needs serious improvement in certain areas. They can easily afford a season out of the CL, probably even a few, without losing their appeal and ability to get back onto the perch, so to speak. They also can afford to hold onto their best players because they've got money and one Europe-less season won't change that. They can also still add top quality players, with Mata being a perfect example.

Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about United's misfortunes, but they aren't going anywhere.
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indeed...and we have Jose waiting in the wings just in case....
 
retardman5 said:
Absolutely. I made the point yesterday that 'other factors' played a part in United's first title win in 26 years. Liverpool were well on the decline, along with George Graham's Arsenal no longer a title-winning threat. As much as seems hard to believe right now, but Fergie back then was not seen as anything special. So us benefiting from other external avenues isn't a concept that's unique. We have a good manager that will hopefully go on to becoming a great manager. Plus we have a good crop of youngsters coming through that will possibly help the club move forward. Manchester United's rise 20 years ago was a footballing 'perfect storm' insofar that there were a few events that all combined at pretty much the same to ensure that United simply blew everyone out of the way for quite a long time.
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Your problem today is that your not dealing with a couple of clubs in decline, you have two clubs with an endless money pot and huge squads already, one that's suffering a major overhaul and another one capable of spending huge with a proven manager. You also have clubs in just as good shape as yourselves chasing the top four, it's a completely different animal and unless your bought out your not able to compete financially, 30-40m of Champions league money won't even get you one top player.
The Pheonix has a long way to go yet.
 
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gasmanc said:
Your problem today is that your not dealing with a couple of clubs in decline, you have two clubs with an endless money pot and huge squads already, one that's suffering a major overhaul and another one capable of spending huge with a proven manager. You also have clubs in just as good shape as yourselves chasing the top four, it's a completely different animal and unless your bought out your not abject I compete financially, 30-40m of Champions league money won't even get you one top player.
The Pheonix has a long way to go yet.
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£40m got us Suarez, Sturridge and Coutinho. It easily gets you one or two top players and if you do your business well, potentially even more. Wages are more important than transfer fees for most clubs.
 
Glanville95 said:
You can't be serious? Manchester City are inferior to last year when they had key players like Yaya Toure, Sergio Aguero and David Silva severely under-perform under the guidance of Roberto Martinez who didn't have nearly the same effect Pellegrini has had on City's quality of attacking football.
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Huh?
 
finneh said:
Liverpool have been poor away from home and out of their last 10 fixtures they have: Crystal Palace, Norwich, West Ham, Cardiff, So'ton and us all away from home.

All very tricky games at this time of the season. I could see them coming out of those fixtures with 9-10 points. Combine that with home games against Chelsea, City and Spurs.

Liverpool fans will say they've got the easiest run in, but I think it's the hardest. Playing 4 relegation candidates away from home, 2 title contenders at home and having 2 fourth place 6 pointers in your last 10 games is brutal (not to mention a good So'ton side). They are still very much fourth favourites in my book, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got third.
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Our away form isn't great but when you consider we have played basically all of the top half teams away (City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, Southampton, Swansea and Newcastle) in the first half of the season and of those teams who have played the return fixture we have hammered them (Everton and Arsenal), we have slipped up too much away from home granted but if we maintain a similar record at home against these teams things will even themselves up.
 
antihenry said:
You're being overly dramatic here, Glaston.

You're making it sound as if one season out of the CL is a catastrophe. It's not, certainly not for a club, like United. They have a huge fan base across the globe, tremendous commercial income and still possess a quality squad, which, granted, needs serious improvement in certain areas. They can easily afford a season out of the CL, probably even a few, without losing their appeal and ability to get back onto the perch, so to speak. They also can afford to hold onto their best players because they've got money and one Europe-less season won't change that. They can also still add top quality players, with Mata being a perfect example.

Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about United's misfortunes, but they aren't going anywhere.
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I'm not saying that one season out of the CL will be a catastrophe, but I am saying it's a serious knock given the surrounding circumstances (Moyes in charge and a major squad rebuild required).

Your citing Mata as an example of what their lure will be in the summer is not very impressive, considering that Chelsea didn't want him anymore and that United's loss of CL status has not yet kicked in, nor was as set in stone as it is now. Look at last summer, when United struggled to get anyone but Fellaini ... what makes you think that the likes of Fabregas and Thiago are going to have a change of heart and suddenly want to play under Moyes in the Europa League?
 
retardman5 said:
There's a train of thought that suggests that we have a 'wafer-thin squad' & we'll need to bulk it up considerably should we qualify for the CL. I don't subscribe to that opinion. We certainly need a couple more top quality players to compliment the likes of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, & Sterling. & I think we'll get those in the summer. But we have a few young lads doing very well out on loan at other clubs. Suso at Almeria. Andre Wisdom is doing a great job, & is highly thought of, at Derby County. Ryan McLaughlin our young Northern Irish right-back has just gone to Barnsley. Then we have Assaidi currently at Stoke City. He'd be an excellent player to bring off the bench should we need something different. Add to that the fact that we've got an entire back four - Johnson, Agger, Sakho, & Enrique - all out through injury (although all 4 are not far off returning). Lucas is another one of course who's missed a large part of the season through injury. I also think we'll see a lot more of the young lad Teixeira, who made his debut last night.

So all in all, we're not in a bad position squad wise. & like you say, we've got the foundations of a very good system, along with some youngsters who know the system. So with a couple of good signings in the summer, there's a possibility we may be able to build on what we've done this season.
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Good post.
 
retardman5 said:
There's a train of thought that suggests that we have a 'wafer-thin squad' & we'll need to bulk it up considerably should we qualify for the CL. I don't subscribe to that opinion. We certainly need a couple more top quality players to compliment the likes of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, & Sterling. & I think we'll get those in the summer. But we have a few young lads doing very well out on loan at other clubs. Suso at Almeria. Andre Wisdom is doing a great job, & is highly thought of, at Derby County. Ryan McLaughlin our young Northern Irish right-back has just gone to Barnsley. Then we have Assaidi currently at Stoke City. He'd be an excellent player to bring off the bench should we need something different. Add to that the fact that we've got an entire back four - Johnson, Agger, Sakho, & Enrique - all out through injury (although all 4 are not far off returning). Lucas is another one of course who's missed a large part of the season through injury. I also think we'll see a lot more of the young lad Teixeira, who made his debut last night.

So all in all, we're not in a bad position squad wise. & like you say, we've got the foundations of a very good system, along with some youngsters who know the system. So with a couple of good signings in the summer, there's a possibility we may be able to build on what we've done this season.
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I agree with most of this. Liverpool probably need another attacker, ie the one Moses/Konyplyanka/Mkhitaryan was supposed to be, but beyond that they're looking pretty good. Maybe a CM when Gerrard retires. It's actually a pretty solid looking squad at Liverpool right now imo. We'll see how you deal with Europe next year, but I don't see it having the detrimental affect some are projecting.
 
BarneyLFC said:
£40m got us Suarez, Sturridge and Coutinho. It easily gets you one or two top players and if you do your business well, potentially even more. Wages are more important than transfer fees for most clubs.
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Your going to need a massive squad next year but yea if you get bargains like you did with the SCS you never know. Trouble being there's clubs in a hugely favourable financial situation to yourselves and the bar is constantly moving, we ourselves have let it slip despite being a financial giant. You also have FFP to consider, which may help or hinder, I don't fully know.
 
I don't think this Liverpool squad is all that. But, they've got their best manager since Paisley and have 2 outstanding players in Suarez & Coutinho.
But whilst they really need theinvestment towards increased revenues from a bigger capacity stadium in order to seriously compete with likes of City in the long term, they instead spent 10 of millions on ok players as last summer. So when Suarez & Coutinho head off to Spain within a couple seasons, they'll be back to square 1. However, they're certainly in with a good shout for the EPL this season.
 
peterstorey said:
In the 60s it looked as if you were set for a brilliant unloseable game - it didn't work out that way.
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Yeah, people here talk about the fact we have more money than Liverpool. That's true, but if we don't use it properly and have the right players and especially manager, it won't matter.
 
peterstorey said:
In the 60s it looked as if you were set for a brilliant unloseable game - it didn't work out that way.
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The 60s was was open era. Now the top clubs are more or less set in stone. Only a sugar daddy can get anybody outside of the big 6(Arsenal,Spurs,Liverpool,United,City,Chelsea) into contention. The money gap is just too big.
 
We absolutely must beat them at OT. They're pretty much nailed on for the the top 4 but they have an outside chance at the league. Just when you thought this season couldnt get worse, eh?
 
Rams said:
I don't think this Liverpool squad is all that. But, they've got their best manager since Paisley and have 2 outstanding players in Suarez & Coutinho.
But whilst they really need theinvestment towards increased revenues from a bigger capacity stadium in order to seriously compete with likes of City in the long term, they instead spent 10 of millions on ok players as last summer. So when Suarez & Coutinho head off to Spain within a couple seasons, they'll be back to square 1. However, they're certainly in with a good shout for the EPL this season.
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Ridiculous. Fagan, Dalglish and Benitez were all better (so far). Evans will also go down as a legend here. Also, if we win the league we'll surely be able to replace any departures. We're not a two man team either.
 
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Rams said:
I don't think this Liverpool squad is all that. But, they've got their best manager since Paisley and have 2 outstanding players in Suarez & Coutinho.
But whilst they really need theinvestment towards increased revenues from a bigger capacity stadium in order to seriously compete with likes of City in the long term, they instead spent 10 of millions on ok players as last summer. So when Suarez & Coutinho head off to Spain within a couple seasons, they'll be back to square 1. However, they're certainly in with a good shout for the EPL this season.
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I think you've missed someone off that list, either by accident or on purpose.
 
thegregster said:
The 60s was was open era. Now the top clubs are more or less set in stone. Only a sugar daddy can get anybody outside of the big 6(Arsenal,Spurs,Liverpool,United,City,Chelsea) into contention. The money gap is just too big.
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It was the era of the big 5 (Arsenal. Everton, Liverpool, Man Utd and Spurs) with a few interjections
 
peterstorey said:
It was the era of the big 5 (Arsenal. Everton, Liverpool, Man Utd and Spurs) with a few interjections
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Ipswich did manage to win a title. After being promoted. That couldnt happen nowadays without hundreds of millions.
 
M'n'M said:
I think you've missed someone off that list, either by accident or on purpose.
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I suspect you mean Gerrard, but he's coming towards the end of his career and I don't think he was ever as good as Suarez has been this season. I think Coutinho has the potential to be better than what Gerrard has been, but is still maturing as a player. The problem is it's difficult to see how either will not be tempted by either Barcelona or Madrid, and it's bound to happen eventually if they keep performing like this.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Ridiculous. Fagan, Dalglish and Benitez were all better (so far). Evans will also go down as a legend here. Also, if we win the league we'll surely be able to replace any departures. We're not a two man team either.
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I didn't say you're a 2 man team, but you do have two real World Class players in my opinion who can carry a team.
 
Rams said:
I suspect you mean Gerrard, but he's coming towards the end of his career and I don't think he was ever as good as Suarez has been this season. I think Coutinho has the potential to be better than what Gerrard has been, but is still maturing as a player. The problem is it's difficult to see how either will not be tempted by either Barcelona or Madrid, and it's bound to happen eventually if they keep performing like this.
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i think he means Sturridge.

And only Ronaldo and Henry have been as good as Suarez has been, so i don't take that as a knock on Gerrard.

I'm not sure about Coutinho being better than Gerrard has been either, if he does though he will be the greatest midfielder the PL has seen.
 
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