Liverpool

I don't understand the logic. If the champion won on <80 points, doesn't it means that there is competitions? I.e. Teams taking points of another? Instead of the opposite ?

Nope, it usually means there's no standout team these days. In 2011 the second placed team finished on 71 points and you could see that none of the top 4 aside from United had the quality to go all the way. We won only 2 or 3 away games that season and still walked the league.

This season there'll likely be 3 teams on more than 80 points. It's underatandably tougher to win the league when there are 2 teams other than you going stromg.
 
I don't care about LFC fans in here, never met one that doesn't deserve their promotion anyway. They offer a fair (albeit biased abit when it comes to Liverpool), and such offering a refreshing opinions from the outsider.

They have yet to bloat about everything, and in fairness considering the opposite extreme of our luck and theirs, it could have been much worse.

Let's just wait until they win it, and let's fecking purge them post to post execution style :devil:
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to say I agree with the myth. There is definitely strong competition this year. However, if you fail to win it next year people will push the myth that there was a lack of competition this year.

SAF wouldn't have dropped the points against teams like Fulham and Cardiff in the dying seconds. We would have won the big games at home. Part of our downfall this year is that we lost that fear factor. Teams like Fulham would have been thumped.

I think there has been strong competition. Liverpool have had an excellent season especially at home, winning most games and currently on a 10 game winning run. Yet we are only 2 points in front.

It would be daft to say United wouldn't have been significantly stronger under SAF - however, we just don't know what sort of season you would have had - given the general agreement the squad needs a bit of an overhaul.
 
I think there has been strong competition. Liverpool have had an excellent season especially at home, winning most games and currently on a 10 game winning run. Yet we are only 2 points in front.

It would be daft to say United wouldn't have been significantly stronger under SAF - however, we just don't know what sort of season you would have had - given the general agreement the squad needs a bit of an overhaul.

The general consensus before the season started was that Liverpool would be struggling for top 4 with that squad, let alone competing for the title. So concensus means very little in the overall scheme of things.
Point is Fergie got this very squad to perform outstandingly last season. If we had spent 85 million on top of that, like we have done, I don't doubt for a moment that we would be right up there in the mix with him in charge.
 
The general consensus before the season started was that Liverpool would be struggling for top 4 with that squad, let alone competing for the title. So concensus means very little in the overall scheme of things.
Point is Fergie got this very squad to perform outstandingly last season. If we had spent 85 million on top of that, like we have done, I don't doubt for a moment that we would be right up there in the mix with him in charge.

Definitely I agree, I didn't have us down for top 4 at all.

Given his record at United it's obvious you would have been higher up the league.
 
I think it's in the fates that Liverpool will win it. It's like a bloody movie script. King abdicates and the age old foe, suppressed for years by the King marches back to take the throne!! To be honest, hard though to say, it will be dam good for the Premier League in general. Blow loads of money (I'm talking about Chelsea and City) and it guarantees you nothing. Book a really good manager, who is focused on what he wants, style of play and most important of all..has dam good man management skills...and you can win anything. Fergie did that for years and if Liverpool do it this season, I don't think any true football fan can do anything else but tip the cap to Rodgers.
 
I think it's in the fates that Liverpool will win it. It's like a bloody movie script. King abdicates and the age old foe, suppressed for years by the King marches back to take the throne!! To be honest, hard though to say, it will be dam good for the Premier League in general. Blow loads of money (I'm talking about Chelsea and City) and it guarantees you nothing. Book a really good manager, who is focused on what he wants, style of play and most important of all..has dam good man management skills...and you can win anything. Fergie did that for years and if Liverpool do it this season, I don't think any true football fan can do anything else but tip the cap to Rodgers.

Us winning also showed the same that blowing money in the wind won't guarantee anything. Liverpool winning will not show anything different. Plus they have spent a fortune themselves. This win will not do anything good for the PL. Only thing you can say is that the PL title will have another contender. But that could have been the case if another sugar daddy came along.

EDIT: I don't care what Rodgers has done. Point is if Fergie had been here he would not have knocked us off. Also, "tipping your hat" towards a Liverpool manager. Seriously?!
 
Us winning also showed the same that blowing money in the wind won't guarantee anything. Liverpool winning will not show anything different. Plus they have spent a fortune themselves. This win will not do anything good for the PL. Only thing you can say is that the PL title will have another contender. But that could have been the case if another sugar daddy came along.

EDIT: I don't care what Rodgers has done. Point is if Fergie had been here he would not have knocked us off. Also, "tipping your hat" towards a Liverpool manager. Seriously?!


I think it's perfectly ok to acknowledge that Rodgers has done one heck of a job at Liverpool when in all honesty pretty much all people thought Liverpool would be struggling to make a top four finish. He's obviously bloody good at man management since he has got some of his players playing far better than even they thought they could. Something Ferguson was a bloody expert at.
 
I think it's perfectly ok to acknowledge that Rodgers has done one heck of a job at Liverpool when in all honesty pretty much all people thought Liverpool would be struggling to make a top four finish. He's obviously bloody good at man management since he has got some of his players playing far better than even they thought they could. Something Ferguson was a bloody expert at.

You are a bigger man than me. I cannot do that! I can bring myself to acknowledge that he has done a good job but to praise him for that. Sorry, not my cup of tea.
 
You are a bigger man than me. I cannot do that! I can bring myself to acknowledge that he has done a good job but to praise him for that. Sorry, not my cup of tea.

You can respect and acknowledge what a manager has done even if you hate them and the club they stand for. Rodgers has, unfortunately and undeniably, done a great job with that group of players. They've had some luck on the way, maybe with decisions, certainly with injuries, but it'd be foolish to say Rodgers hasn't done well. Just look at his damn team sheet, players like Henderson have stepped up so many levels this season it's unreal.
 
We have had injuries. Enrique has missed most of the season, Lucas has missed several months, Allen several weeks, Sturridge was out for around 5 weeks, Sakho several weeks, Agger always gets injured now and again too. Plus Suarez missed the first few weeks (for obviously a different reason).

We may not have been affected as much as others but we don't have the squad depth anyway.
 
We have had injuries. Enrique has missed most of the season, Lucas has missed several months, Allen several weeks, Sturridge was out for around 5 weeks, Sakho several weeks, Agger always gets injured now and again too. Plus Suarez missed the first few weeks (for obviously a different reason).

We may not have been affected as much as others but we don't have the squad depth anyway.

You have injuries, but not to your key, key players. Also, your injury problems have been no where near the levels of the competition around you.

I don't get why Liverpool fans do this. Or any clubs fans for that matter. Saying you had the luck of the draw with injuries doesn't take anything away from the success. Every team has their luck or factors going in their favour when they win. Just like how RVP saved us last year. Some united fans get upset at that, but its just a fact.
 
This is very telling from The Secret Footballer's new article

Take Liverpool's thrilling 3-2 win over Manchester City, for example. Luis Suarez dived over Martin Demichelis and the City players asked referee Mark Clattenburg why he wasn't booked. To be honest, they had every right to.

If it wasn't a free kick, then Suarez must have dived. He wasn't claiming that he was trying to get out of the way of the defender by jumping over him because he was rolling around holding his shin.

In the face of such blatant gamesmanship, I would be the first player to ask the question. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask if it isn't a free kick, why isn't it a booking for diving?

If those are the rules, then I have a right to ask why the rules are not being applied, don't I?

The answer is simple. Clattenburg did not want to send off Suarez because the knock-on effect is that he would have seriously dented an entire team's title chances in the face of what is a groundswell of neutral support in Liverpool's favour. All of that went through his head in a nano-second.
 
"All of that went through his head in a nano-second."

I think that is a good point here in general when it comes to the psychology of referee pressure. In a normal situation, a ref might not want to be influenced by any of it. In a match situation, all this comes in so compressed and fast, he'll not have time to properly filter out all such influences. A good ref will still consciously try to ref the game as it should be, but I think it is a rare ref who can honestly rule out that the weight of all this might not tilt some decisions one way or the other.

I thought his performance had the look of a ref who was determined to not get headlines for being the deciding factor in a title crunch game and as such would rather let some things slide.

Not ideal, but better imo than Webb's tendency for wanting the limelight by making brave calls and giving cheap and easily disputable peno for something.
 
I think I've always been pretty clear in thoughts and posts about Scousers!! I can't think I ever once will have ever said anything complimentary so yes it's always bothered me that you exist

Oh I know full well there's no ambiguity on your part when it comes to Liverpool supporters (or is it Scousers in general ?). Your hatred, bitterness, & loathing, shine through like the brightest beacon on the darkest night. I'd even go as far as saying that you wear it like a badge of honour.

Just as a matter of interest. Do you have any Scouse friends/colleagues/acquaintances who support Liverpool by any chance ?
 
Oh I know full well there's no ambiguity on your part when it comes to Liverpool supporters (or is it Scousers in general ?). Your hatred, bitterness, & loathing, shine through like the brightest beacon on the darkest night. I'd even go as far as saying that you wear it like a badge of honour.

Just as a matter of interest. Do you have any Scouse friends/colleagues/acquaintances who support Liverpool by any chance ?
None from Liverpool obviously , I couldn't be in the same room for more than two seconds with that accent but my first husband had a very good friend from Carlisle who used to stay with us. He actually managed to sit through the 4-0 thrashing in 1990 with me , no gloating or celebrating wildly and I liked him very much but no, none from Liverpool itself .
 
It's not that opposition fans are gloating. It's the fact that more and more Liverpool fans want to post on a United forum because their team is doing well. Even in non Liverpool threads some opposition posters will find a way to get Strurridge or Suarez' name into the discussion. I get it, you want to tell us how great you are, it's still a tad annoying. My view is probably skewed a bit as I was in the newbies until about a week ago and there's a new Liverpool fan posting there every day.

Could you imagine if Spurs were doing well (:lol:) and a million Glaston's popped up? That shit is scary.

That's not the case at all. I reckon if it was United & Liverpool challenging for the title this season, our new found 'giddiness' probably wouldn't bother you as much. Our current position, along with your poor season, has somewhat skewed the thinking for a lot of United fans on here, that whenever we challenge an opinion about our club, we're now 'smug', 'arrogant', 'full of ourselves', etc.

5 years ago under Rafa we finished 2nd on 86 points to a Manchester club. There's a good possibility that may happen again this year. So whilst that may still be seen as an excellent season for us, we're still mindful of what happened the following season, & the seasons after that.
 
None from Liverpool obviously , I couldn't be in the same room for more than two seconds with that accent but my first husband had a very good friend from Carlisle who used to stay with us. He actually managed to sit through the 4-0 thrashing in 1990 with me , no gloating or celebrating wildly and I liked him very much but no, none from Liverpool itself .

That's were you & I differ. I have quite a few Mancunian friends (United & City supporters). I've worked with a lot of people from Manchester. I've even played football with an ex United player - Gordon Hill - & he & I still keep in touch from time to time. On the other hand, I obviously have a lot of Scouse friends & work colleagues. I also know there are some Liverpool supporters out there who I wouldn't piss on even if they were on fire. So I don't make judgements on where a person is from, or what team they support. You've stated above that just hearing a Scouse accent pretty much switches on your hatred button. Don't you ever stop to think how odd that is ?
 
That's were you & I differ. I have quite a few Mancunian friends (United & City supporters). I've worked with a lot of people from Manchester. I've even played football with an ex United player - Gordon Hill - & he & I still keep in touch from time to time. On the other hand, I obviously have a lot of Scouse friends & work colleagues. I also know there are some Liverpool supporters out there who I wouldn't piss on even if they were on fire. So I don't make judgements on where a person is from, or what team they support. You've stated above that just hearing a Scouse accent pretty much switches on your hatred button. Don't you ever stop to think how odd that is ?

Me too, I work with some United season ticket holders and was chatting at work to a City fan the other day. Never spoken to him before but went up to him and just talked about the game. It was good.

I don't understand why anyone can judge someone on where they come from. You have to treat people as an individual, like you say I come across Liverpool fans who are prats - but doesn't mean they all are.
 
Me too, I work with some United season ticket holders and was chatting at work to a City fan the other day. Never spoken to him before but went up to him and just talked about the game. It was good.

I don't understand why anyone can judge someone on where they come from. You have to treat people as an individual, like you say I come across Liverpool fans who are prats - but doesn't mean they all are.
Except if they come from Marseille, of course.
 
That's were you & I differ. I have quite a few Mancunian friends (United & City supporters). I've worked with a lot of people from Manchester. I've even played football with an ex United player - Gordon Hill - & he & I still keep in touch from time to time. On the other hand, I obviously have a lot of Scouse friends & work colleagues. I also know there are some Liverpool supporters out there who I wouldn't piss on even if they were on fire. So I don't make judgements on where a person is from, or what team they support. You've stated above that just hearing a Scouse accent pretty much switches on your hatred button. Don't you ever stop to think how odd that is ?


I was married to a United fan for 15 years and now after a long period of utter hell I am free from her.....last year I met the perfect woman....only she is a Liverpool fan. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little buzzing for her right now, because she followed them in the 70s and 80s and I can see she is feeling exactly as I did in 93. No matter how conflicted it makes me feel. I'm diverting all my rage at Moyes at the moment so that I can at least fake being happy for her!
 
I was married to a United fan for 15 years and now after a long period of utter hell I am free from her.....last year I met the perfect woman....only she is a Liverpool fan. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little buzzing for her right now, because she followed them in the 70s and 80s and I can see she is feeling exactly as I did in 93. No matter how conflicted it makes me feel. I'm diverting all my rage at Moyes at the moment so that I can at least fake being happy for her!

I can imagine mate - must have been terrible. :)
 
If you judge people by their accent or where they were born, how else do you judge them I wonder?
 
I don't particularly but that accent is just so hideous ( the broad one obviously not the mild one )

Unfortunately, there's not much people can do about their accent, it's simply a by-product of where they're from. I actually think the Scouse accent has become more exaggerated over the years by the younger people. My accent isn't very strong at all, neither are those of my older relatives living in the city. Having said that, I still can't pronounce the word chicken without it sounding like it has 3 k's in it :)
 
Unfortunately, there's not much people can do about their accent, it's simply a by-product of where they're from. I actually think the Scouse accent has become more exaggerated over the years by the younger people. My accent isn't very strong at all, neither are those of my older relatives living in the city. Having said that, I still can't pronounce the word chicken without it sounding like it has 3 k's in it :)

I've thought this for a while. I'd be very interested if anyone could explain why working class folks from Liverpool born in the 40s and 50s like The Beatles or Paul O'Grady sound completely different to the likes of Gerrard, Carragher, Fowler, Rooney etc. who were born 30 years later.
 
Unfortunately, there's not much people can do about their accent, it's simply a by-product of where they're from. I actually think the Scouse accent has become more exaggerated over the years by the younger people. My accent isn't very strong at all, neither are those of my older relatives living in the city. Having said that, I still can't pronounce the word chicken without it sounding like it has 3 k's in it :)
I think you're right about that, the Beatles weren't very broad were they ?
 
There have been a handful of Liverpool fans promoted recently but you should see the newbie. There's a fecking army of them down there. Mods are right to be suspicious of such an influx if you ask me.
Isn't that the point of the newbie forum though. To filter out the wums?
 
"All of that went through his head in a nano-second."

I think that is a good point here in general when it comes to the psychology of referee pressure. In a normal situation, a ref might not want to be influenced by any of it. In a match situation, all this comes in so compressed and fast, he'll not have time to properly filter out all such influences. A good ref will still consciously try to ref the game as it should be, but I think it is a rare ref who can honestly rule out that the weight of all this might not tilt some decisions one way or the other.

A fair point. Not trying to sound like I'm on a high horse but for people who don't go to matches it's hard to appreciate how difficult a referees job is. Sometimes even now at a game I find myself looking round for a replay of an event to see what happened after everything goes down so quickly. I honestly don't know how people expect the referees to get it right all the time, you almost have to be superhuman.
 
Isn't that the point of the newbie forum though. To filter out the wums?

Of course. But I suspect that's why it was on Moses' mind hence why I brought it up.
 
That's not the case at all. I reckon if it was United & Liverpool challenging for the title this season, our new found 'giddiness' probably wouldn't bother you as much. Our current position, along with your poor season, has somewhat skewed the thinking for a lot of United fans on here, that whenever we challenge an opinion about our club, we're now 'smug', 'arrogant', 'full of ourselves', etc.

5 years ago under Rafa we finished 2nd on 86 points to a Manchester club. There's a good possibility that may happen again this year. So whilst that may still be seen as an excellent season for us, we're still mindful of what happened the following season, & the seasons after that.

I was in the newbies just a week ago. There was a new Liverpool fan every day. Why do they suddenly want to join a Manchester United forum?
You haven't had anything to gloat about and now the majority want to do it on a United board. If Liverpool were sitting where we were half of the people who have joined this year wouldn't have. If you disagree then whatever.
 
You have injuries, but not to your key, key players. Also, your injury problems have been no where near the levels of the competition around you.

Sturridge and Gerrard were out over Christmas and New Year the most hectic time of year and we had big away games then too. Sturridge missed 8 weeks and is set to miss another couple.

Our injury list has been considerably worse than Chelsea's who have had barely any injuries.

Liverpool http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/liverpool-fc/ausfallzeiten/verein_31.html
Arsenal http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/arsenal-fc/ausfallzeiten/verein_11.html
Chelsea http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/chelsea-fc/ausfallzeiten/verein_631.html
City http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/manchester-city/ausfallzeiten/verein_281.html
 
I was in the newbies just a week ago. There was a new Liverpool fan every day. Why do they suddenly want to join a Manchester United forum?
You haven't had anything to gloat about and now the majority want to do it on a United board. If Liverpool were sitting where we were half of the people who have joined this year wouldn't have. If you disagree then whatever.
I think you're both right. Yes there are probably more Liverpool fans signing up to RedCafe due to what's happening in the league. But also, I think being accused of smugness or arrogance for putting forward a pro-Liverpool position isn't necessarily justified. In fact, the situation in the league means the pro-Liverpool opinion carries a bit more weight which probably does irritate more than usual.
 
I think you're both right. Yes there are probably more Liverpool fans signing up to RedCafe due to what's happening in the league. But also, I think being accused of smugness or arrogance for putting forward a pro-Liverpool position isn't necessarily justified. In fact, the situation in the league means the pro-Liverpool opinion carries a bit more weight which probably does irritate more than usual.

There is a hint of arrogance. Although, you could argue some of it is merited. Either way, hopefully a lot of you will have no reason to post next season :D
 
Sturridge out for a couple of months is a big blow for the run-in. Surely a big doubt for the world cup as well.