I still don't know what the philosophy is. I thought it was to get us playing like we did against Spurs, Liverpool and City last year more often but now I'm so sure. Possession football is great but our interpretation, or maybe execution, of it is flawed.
Louis Van Gaal | 2015-16 Performance Thread
- Thread starter Nighteyes
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I still don't know what the philosophy is. I thought it was to get us playing like we did against Spurs, Liverpool and City last year more often but now I'm so sure. Possession football is great but our interpretation, or maybe execution, of it is flawed.
Well obviously we're looking bad in the attacking third of the pitch but we look excellent at the back and improved in midfield. Think he should be given the Summer window to bring in more players tbh and try and fix the attack as he has done with the defense and midfield.
We've had three poor games in a row, but if the two PL games are decent enough results. All away games are tricky in the PL and a draw against City isn't a disaster, just the performances weren't great.
It was up to LVG to bring in the personnel to perform it though, and he had heaps of money to spend. This is basically his team now, it's nobodies fault but his own and I do wonder how people will look back at the Di Maria situation if LVG doesn't turn it around, as evidenced this season, he doesn't seem to know how to use our best attackers to their ability. Martial is basically our best striker right now and he's shunted him out wide to keep a past it player happy.
You are a few steps behind me because I'm just about done with him and, as it was with Moyes, simply waiting for the day he gets run out of town.
People want him sacked now? 
People want him sacked now?
I just don't get it myself. So myopic and spoilt.
People want him sacked now?
People's opinion. But I find it amazing some of us are willing to sack him and go through another rebuilding period.
Putting it in perspective, we're near the top of the table, and have only what, crashed out of the League cup. My only gripe with Van Gaal is the Rooney situation, and some of the players he's sold has left our squad a bit thin up top but other than that, he's done pretty well, in my opinion.
I highly doubt we'd need to go through another rebuilding period, as I don't see much wrong with the squad. It's not like the Moyes era, where we've countless dead wood that need flagging out.
No rebuilding period would be necessary, we already have the personnel to enable us to play a decent brand of football. Van Gaal's ego won't allow us to do that though.
Chelsea didnt need a rebuilding when they got rid of Ranieri for Mourinho...they just had to supplement what was already there and go up a level with a superior manager. If we are to win trophies, it will not be with Van Gaal.
Its more a case of another season of Van Gaal vs maybe 5 years with a world class manager. The end of this season might be our only choice to do that. Then in 2016 we might find ourselves like 2013, with no world class alternative to look to.
People want him sacked now?
People want us to become Madrid Chelsea. Sacking managers for the sake of sacking them.
My major gripe is that I think we're trying to be too clever. We make everything so complicated. I always wanted us to play with the ball more but you have to have some common sense and rely on the fact you believe your players are better (Sometimes at least..). We've a young squad and we've done fairly well. Perhaps the season will pan out as many felt it would - that we're short. However, the Newcastle game and the Boro game were all wrong. And what good are two defensive players if everyone is behind the ball? It summed it up against Boro when we had all the ball for the first 25 or so minutes yet they created the first best chance. All that ball and are we to believe that Boro blocked out every possibility to go forwards? We need tempo. You can't get tempo being as negative as we are. People are talking about us not scoring goals but God if you are not trying to score you won't create chances.
Some players need to work on stop being so sloppy. One of the things about us is when we are great, we're great! But a few sloppy performances and it very quickly spreads. We don't need that much more quality, we just need to stop being such pussies about what might happen. We should be talking about the 20+ shots on goal we had against Boro but that didn't happen. So the players and management should stop treating football as a science and give people targets and make them meet them. It's unacceptable to go in to games being happy with one shot on goal. One shot should not have that much importance. Ronaldo has about 7+ a game for feck sake
Some players need to work on stop being so sloppy. One of the things about us is when we are great, we're great! But a few sloppy performances and it very quickly spreads. We don't need that much more quality, we just need to stop being such pussies about what might happen. We should be talking about the 20+ shots on goal we had against Boro but that didn't happen. So the players and management should stop treating football as a science and give people targets and make them meet them. It's unacceptable to go in to games being happy with one shot on goal. One shot should not have that much importance. Ronaldo has about 7+ a game for feck sake
People want him sacked now?
I don't think he should be sacked now. I think it's early enough in the season that there's a reasonable chance we'll improve from here. Definitely too soon to write him off completely.
But, surely you can see why he's made himself so unpopular as a manager? We're absolutely brutal to watch. I was making plans earlier on about where/when to watch our game tonight and it struck me that I can be more or less certain it will be a boring, uninspiriing game of football to watch. Win or lose. People keep on harking on about how we went through similar spells under Fergie (including Van Gaal himself) I think there would be a lot less negativity if we were inconsistent. Some good games, some poor ones. With, ideally, a trend towards more good vs bad games. Even at our most transitional under Fergie, you watched every game in the hope that we might turn it on and dismantle someone. Which did happen, every now and then. The way we approach games recently is nothing if not consistent, consistently poor to watch. It's the grinding tedium that kills and has me - for the first time I can remember - kind of ambivalent about watching tonight's game. I know exactly what to expect and I'm a long way short of looking forward to watching it. Which is a shite state of affairs really.
The only justifiable reason I can see for him being sacked during the season is if we look like we're heavily struggling to get top 4. Otherwise, he should stay. We're awful to watch but we're definitely improving under him in other important areas so I think that warrants keeping him til next summer.
If the football's still dire by the end of the season, then yeah, a new manager would be good.
If the football's still dire by the end of the season, then yeah, a new manager would be good.
@Shark @Rednotdead @K2K
So you guys want him sacked? At this stage of the season, who will replace him? Ancelotti? I don't think we should be sacking a manager for looks like a poor run of form. Van Gaal's not some mid table manager with a long 6 year contract who doesn't have a clue what he's doing. He's historically had attacking teams and has actually won trophies. I don't see anything wrong with giving him the length of his contract to let him do his job.
@Pogue Mahone
I know what you're saying. We're joyless to watch. But I hope he realises he needs to do something about our lack of goals and toothlessness, and I'm willing to see what happens by the end of his contract here.
People forget easily how clueless we looked under Moyes. Our performance a few weeks ago against City was better than anything Moyes conjured up against any big sides during his time here, and was arguably better than what Fergie came up with against them in his last season here. Just my opinions though.
So you guys want him sacked? At this stage of the season, who will replace him? Ancelotti? I don't think we should be sacking a manager for looks like a poor run of form. Van Gaal's not some mid table manager with a long 6 year contract who doesn't have a clue what he's doing. He's historically had attacking teams and has actually won trophies. I don't see anything wrong with giving him the length of his contract to let him do his job.
@Pogue Mahone
I know what you're saying. We're joyless to watch. But I hope he realises he needs to do something about our lack of goals and toothlessness, and I'm willing to see what happens by the end of his contract here.
People forget easily how clueless we looked under Moyes. Our performance a few weeks ago against City was better than anything Moyes conjured up against any big sides during his time here, and was arguably better than what Fergie came up with against them in his last season here. Just my opinions though.
I would persist with him until the end of the season. And hopefully we do get a top 4 spot , and then push on from there.
I honestly dont get this constant referral to Moyes as a justification for Van Gaal. Yes, Moyes is inferior to Van Gaal, and that is an indisputable fact. However David Moyes had the third shortest reign of any full-time United manager, so he's not really a good standard of measure. So someone with Van Gaal's resume would be expected to be better than Moyes, and he has been. They are on different levels. However all but 6 of the players in the current squad are Van Gaal's players, so Moyes shouldnt really be brought up.
I feel that they are superior managers than Van Gaal (That was the CAF consensus too before we hired Van Gaal to be honest), and that the window of opportunity is limited in getting them. Just like Van Gaal would be a step up on Moyes, this would be a step up on Van Gaal.
I for one don't want him sacked yet, I still have faith that he can turn things around. I was just arguing against the point you made about there being another rebuilding period if he was sacked.
Think this By Invictus best sums what I am trying to say
Still maintain that he is not a poor manager, but I can't see him taking us any further relative to what we can get with superior managers.
I also fear a lull year like the 2001/02 year when the players knew Fergie was retiring would affect us too. I depend will see how things work out. By the end of the season Ancelotti might be already at Chelsea and Pep and City, so that's why a decision should be made after the season. I wouldn't fire him now, but the club should definitely send out signals that the football at least needs to improve.
I refer to Moyes to point out that he's not a total disaster who we should be sacking less than 2/3 into his contract. It's not like we're in 15th place and he's build a squad full of past it has beens.
I know that he isn't, and I've reiterated that too. Its the fact that we can get better managers in, for a longer period than just his final year, that will likely be off the market at a later time. Its a bit harsh, but we cant afford to be overly sentimental at the stage that we are. Thats why I'd make that assessment at the end of the season, of what the best course of action then would be.
The length of the contract is neither here nor there. Moyes was sacked before he'd even completed one full season. Which is fairly radical action. Van Gaal's had that one full season and is a fair bit into season two. So he's already been given much more of a crack of the whip than Moyes ever was. In both instances, this was deserved, of course. For now.
Is it really?
Other than wishing for it, does anyone actually think Van Gaal will be sacked at the end of the season based on the quality of football we are playing? Surely its about the results, first and foremost, with, perhaps, the availability of a longer term successor (i.e. Guardiola or similar) another potential factor. If we play fairly boring, uninspiring football but come, say, second in the league, would Woodward sack him? I find that unlikely - unless, as I said, it was more because Guardiola was available and we had to act quickly to get him.
I don't think he'll be sacked if we finish second. No chance. I also don't think we'll finish second if finish the season playing the same brand of toothless football we've seen so far.
I can't make up my mind tbh and I see the good things he's done with our defence and that the midfield is strong (as others have said too.) But no one can say we shouldn't be able to produce consistently better football than we have up until now.
They are certainly superior managers out there, that on the basis of the recent accolades are better. As a football club, we are certainly attractive enough to attract that kind of quality.Unless you are alluding to something else.
I've changed my mind about the guy this season. I was really pleased when we appointed him, because of his pedigree. I always knew him as a cantankerous character, but I thought that a lot of his disputes in other countries could be down to other people taking themselves much too seriously, not having enough patience, non-football people meddling etc. (which you always get). Basically not having all the luxuries that Fergie eventually won for himself and his eventual successors.
Turns out, having an excess of freedom didn't work as well as I hoped it would. He appears to be really confused with the whole transfer market thing, and the abstract concept of squad management. From what he's been intimating to the press this season, he also appears to be something of conformist. Never saw that one coming.
The brand of football is a bitter pill I've swallowed ab initio. I suspect getting hysterical about it on here won't be very therapeutic.
Turns out, having an excess of freedom didn't work as well as I hoped it would. He appears to be really confused with the whole transfer market thing, and the abstract concept of squad management. From what he's been intimating to the press this season, he also appears to be something of conformist. Never saw that one coming.
The brand of football is a bitter pill I've swallowed ab initio. I suspect getting hysterical about it on here won't be very therapeutic.
How?
He sold Van Persie and then asked the press something tantamount to: "isn't this what you all wanted?". He is peddling the same thing about Rooney playing up front.
I was joking in part but I really think that if there is a top tier manager available we should sacrifice Van Gaal's last year under contract and get that man in. And there is one such man, Don Carlo! I think this is our best bet for a reasonably quick return to the big time which will guarantee our long term stability as a club.
Last edited:
I don't know if he really means it that way, to be honest. If he really is following what the press are saying, the positive thing is he will be dropping Rooney soon.
Yeh, if someone is avaiable we should probably do it. I'm more keen on the Guardiola and that wont happen until the summer at the earliest, maybe even 18 months down the line.
Van Gaal earned the his second season and could still do well enough to earn a third, he is four points off the top after a fair bit of the season has gone. BUT come the summer of 2016, we could find ourselves in a strangely similar situation like we were in the summer of 2013 where Carlo Ancelotti, Mourinho and Guardiola both move clubs or become available. My view, given what we have seen from LVG, is that we would have to create a vacancy to get one of those three here because in the long run Van Gaal is not an option (age and other factors considered). I wouldn't want us to turn down three years under Pep for one more year of this sterile football.
I think Ancelotti is more suitable for the job at hand than Pep in that he can get more out of any talented group whilst Pep is more specific on the type of players he requires, not as idiosyncratic as Van Gaal but would still be problematic when it comes to securing the players he needs, potentially giving him an easy excuse should he not hit the ground running. A player like Vidic wouldn't make it in a Pep Guardiola team, for example.
Y'all need to stop panicking at every given opportunity.
He's given us a good structure, a good defence, a midfield that rules the roost in most matches (something of a novelty for us in the last few years), and an ability to play the passing game that's a vast improvement on anything we've had before. All he has to do now is get us scoring goals and we've virtually cracked it. Ye don't sack a man like that.
His main problems are our lack of strikers, fear of dropping Rooney (dropping him is the best way to fire him up as we've seen in the past) and the players creating/finishing chances on goal. He's not that far away.
He's given us a good structure, a good defence, a midfield that rules the roost in most matches (something of a novelty for us in the last few years), and an ability to play the passing game that's a vast improvement on anything we've had before. All he has to do now is get us scoring goals and we've virtually cracked it. Ye don't sack a man like that.
His main problems are our lack of strikers, fear of dropping Rooney (dropping him is the best way to fire him up as we've seen in the past) and the players creating/finishing chances on goal. He's not that far away.
sorry but what has Moyes got to do with it? He wasn't up to it and rightly got the boot. So not sure what point you're making there.
I'm not saying sack him, but I wish people would stop pointing to this great defence that he's built. Hes got a keeper that Fergie bought that has matured to be the world class player that we hoped/expected he would become, Smalling has matured (Fergie purchase), Jones is doing good when not injured (Fergie purchase). LVG has brought in 2 fullbacks, one of which may or may not turn out to be an upgrade on Rafael.
What he has improved is the midfield options to make us more solid, I credit him for this.
But, Arsenal have conceded the same amount and scored more, City have conceded 1 more and scored considerably more, hell even Spurs have conceded only 1 more.
what you mean like the fundamental part of the game? the bit that he hasn't solved in a year and a half
I genuinely hope that we go out and wallop 6 past this lot tonight, but that's all it is hope
I also hope that its a watchable game
What he has improved is the midfield options to make us more solid, I credit him for this.
But, Arsenal have conceded the same amount and scored more, City have conceded 1 more and scored considerably more, hell even Spurs have conceded only 1 more.
what you mean like the fundamental part of the game? the bit that he hasn't solved in a year and a half
I genuinely hope that we go out and wallop 6 past this lot tonight, but that's all it is hope
I also hope that its a watchable game
The point really is there is results and there is style. Separate things. This thread is full of posts saying we should sack him because of style. But I don't think he'll even be assessed on that, or it will be a subsidiary factor. Results are what will decide his fate. And actually according to the league table things aren't all that bad.
If Puyol did, Vidic could have.