No point in putting up with much more of this. He was brought in to steady the ship. Job done. Quite well, in all honesty. But if this is his philosophy, time for Pep Guardiola to get onboard and push the boat out while we can still get him.
Louis Van Gaal | 2015-16 Performance Thread
- Thread starter Nighteyes
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The only defense for him is if he secretly believes our defense is too weak to be a bit more aggressive.
If that's what he's thinking, I'd be inclined to give him a pass. Trouble is, it really doesn't look like that's what he's thinking.
I posted about this I think last year, and then there was some graphic recently(?) regarding the top teams in Europe and their shot attempts. During SAF's tenure, if a game wasn't going well, you'd see our forwards/wingers blatantly trying to win FKs in the final third. None of this recycle-possession-and-wait-for-some-opening-that-may-or-may-not-come bullshit. It was based on 'you miss 100% of the shots you don't take'.
Also, sometimes I wonder if LvG realizes that opposition teams now know they will have time to reorganize whenever they get dispossessed. Every. Single. Damn. Time. Surely he knows this, but just the fact that one wonders is huge. It means part of your game is that predictable. And in a bad way.
If that's what he's thinking, I'd be inclined to give him a pass. Trouble is, it really doesn't look like that's what he's thinking.
I posted about this I think last year, and then there was some graphic recently(?) regarding the top teams in Europe and their shot attempts. During SAF's tenure, if a game wasn't going well, you'd see our forwards/wingers blatantly trying to win FKs in the final third. None of this recycle-possession-and-wait-for-some-opening-that-may-or-may-not-come bullshit. It was based on 'you miss 100% of the shots you don't take'.
Also, sometimes I wonder if LvG realizes that opposition teams now know they will have time to reorganize whenever they get dispossessed. Every. Single. Damn. Time. Surely he knows this, but just the fact that one wonders is huge. It means part of your game is that predictable. And in a bad way.
I think if we go out of Europe this week, and end up fighting for 4th in the league rather than the title then he's in big trouble.
Every time we drop points I see this ridiculous argument, as if people are criticizing him for one isolated result.
Sadly I think we're only halfway through his tenure. Hopefully the 4 years post-Fergie wont be seen as wasted years.
I loved our tempo today and enjoyed the game, but let's be fair here, LVG is responsible for getting his team producing goals and not 0-0s.
Not going to repeat what I have already said atleast thrice in the thread already.
Isn't that part of the problem. Instead of employing a long term option we have chosen someone for 3 years who hasn't got a chance of emulating SAF in creating a great side. They should have made the correct choice instead of Moyes in the first place.
Yes, he is. In a game like tonight though, there wasnt much he could do. It wasnt the first 0-0 where both teams should have scored atleast a couple, it wont be the last.
The man is an arrogant deluded troll, no way Fellaini should be near a Man Utd team, he's diabolical.
Bizarre is exactly what LVG is, taking off Schweinsteiger and reshuffling 3 or 4 players. Week in week out we see him squander substitutes in the hope that one of his 5 man switch subs will create a goal and he can claim it as genius.
Getting a result at Wolfsburg will take nothing short of a Christmas miracle!
Not signing a prolific striker is all down to him. RVP and Chicharito would have at least produced some goals for us.
Well I think the hope is we'll build on what LVG leaves us rather than starting from scratch again. There's nothing going on to suggest we're too focused on the short term. If anything, the team's too young.
If getting a result against Wolfsburg is so difficult then it's logical to not play Schweinsteiger for 90 minutes. And we created chances to win it after Depay came on.
There will always be pressure on forwards to finish chances when your team is struggling to score goals. If they got chances more often then they wouldn't be snatched at so much.
Already criticising the Martial signing? How opinions have changed.
The fact we and not Barcelona or the other top clubs signed Martial is fantastic, he will be a superstar and they aren't easy to come by.
so 2-2 at home to wham with their attack injured except for andy fecking carroll and ours not up to snuff is still another draw when we should be winning. feck it - it's his job on the line but it's my eyes that have to watch this death march he calls football.
No I'm criticising the youngster. We should have got someone else as well. He is a great prospect but at 20 today has all the goalscoring pressure on his shoulders. That is terrible management.
Martial isn't a prolific striker and he wont be for another couple of years. We should have signed him and another.
Besides the Martial one, none of them were snatched at though. Martial is a cool mofo anyways, went for the proper side net unfortunately and missed.
Who will he sign though? Bruno Martin Indi? Who the hell wants to come and play in this system. We are all presuming if he buy players the system will change. I wouldn't bank on it.
Van Gaal seemed pretty frustrated in his interview about the finishing. Also said Tuesday is important for the team, the club and him
90 people voted extend his contract. Feck.
Agreed. I'm actually really happy at the tempo we played at.
it would be much different if they'd open the poll back up.
Nothing to do with that, I think the board and he will panic a bit and throw cash around for quick fixes. Not sure who they'd be
Not sure I'd agree. I think Martial had time to take a touch if he wanted to. Hitting it first time with your body opened up like that was always going to be more difficult.
Mahrez will not be it. He is in a team challenging for the league or at least getting into Europe. Mane maybe. As you say he will likely panic buy, then they will all need to learn his philosophy. The might just be ready for next season. Also will be get good quality in January? The really decent players are still involved in the CL or actually have a good chance of winning the Europa League.
He's had full control for more than a year now, every fecking detail was micro-managed into perfection according to his wishes. Wind shields at Carrington and Christmas parties in November. No player was good enough for King Louis, nearly everyone from our last title-winning side had to be replaced. The club did everything to match the philosophy. Yet the end result is unimpressive, and that's leaving emotion out of it.
He can go feck himself if the shite that has gone on for the last months doesn't stop in the next three matches. Sometimes there's a click between Louis and his players and then if his decisions are good, the outcome can be very positive. Coming from the same country, I've seen all the Louis van Gaal teams play regularly ever since 1990 or 1991. I really feel he's made things way too difficult for himself at United, constantly trying to reinvent the wheel.
This is nothing new with Louis really, he did it with the Dutch NT in 2001, finished 11th with AZ Alkmaar after two top three seasons, and of course the same patterns apply to his last months at Barca and Bayern. At United he started with forcing a pointless 3-5-2 system on the squad and has constantly been trying to prove his theory about 'the team being more important than individual players'. His plan for this year seemed to be to try and beat Arsenal and City in a race with inferior forwards, which would in turn prove his superiority as a manager. The end result is that we're now a decent side that lacks pure quality upfront.
Today's game wouldn't even been that bad if we hadn't been shite for weeks/months now. The players are to blame too, of course. But it weren't the players who decided to give Ashley Young a new contract and keep Fellaini, yet decided to get rid of proven goals scorers like Chicha and RVP. At least with Valdes and Romero we have some great goalkeepers if something were to happen to Dave. Especially Valdes has been brilliant. That'll teach them.
He can go feck himself if the shite that has gone on for the last months doesn't stop in the next three matches. Sometimes there's a click between Louis and his players and then if his decisions are good, the outcome can be very positive. Coming from the same country, I've seen all the Louis van Gaal teams play regularly ever since 1990 or 1991. I really feel he's made things way too difficult for himself at United, constantly trying to reinvent the wheel.
This is nothing new with Louis really, he did it with the Dutch NT in 2001, finished 11th with AZ Alkmaar after two top three seasons, and of course the same patterns apply to his last months at Barca and Bayern. At United he started with forcing a pointless 3-5-2 system on the squad and has constantly been trying to prove his theory about 'the team being more important than individual players'. His plan for this year seemed to be to try and beat Arsenal and City in a race with inferior forwards, which would in turn prove his superiority as a manager. The end result is that we're now a decent side that lacks pure quality upfront.
Today's game wouldn't even been that bad if we hadn't been shite for weeks/months now. The players are to blame too, of course. But it weren't the players who decided to give Ashley Young a new contract and keep Fellaini, yet decided to get rid of proven goals scorers like Chicha and RVP. At least with Valdes and Romero we have some great goalkeepers if something were to happen to Dave. Especially Valdes has been brilliant. That'll teach them.
The problem is, though, when you set your teams up to play slow, insipid, risk-free football then you can't be surprised when they play that sort of football and, as a result, are drained of all confidence when it comes time to take those sorts of chances. I agree that he can't get out on the pitch and put the ball in the net for them, but nor can he be absolved of all responsibility.
True, I'd had enough of him last season.
Can you come in for us again?
I think it is going to get a lot worse for him after the Wolfsburg game, I really believe the league table flatters us and without drastic improvement I can't see us finishing in the top four because we won't score enough goals.
He is going to have to buy in January, we desperately need at least one defender and one forward, but the options are going to be few and far between so I can't see him getting the players he would want.
He is going to have to buy in January, we desperately need at least one defender and one forward, but the options are going to be few and far between so I can't see him getting the players he would want.
all he needs is a banner and a song.
He's the manager, ofcourse he has to shoulder part of the responsibility. I blame him for most of our recent results, more than the players themselves as we're not set up to win games. Tonight wasnt the case though.
No it isn't. The football looks better, players are more intelligent, the fans certainly are, but the PL proves competitiveness is a strange matter. Appearantly, it has little to do with good football. On the continent people would laugh at English football if it wasn't for all those players and managers coming in and finding it very hard to succeed in. Anyway, there's Bayern and there's the rest, and huge gap between it. Leverkussen and clubs like that are a big step down, it takes a legend of af BuLi striker to make it in the PL. Hernandez is lucky to be in the team at all, because until recently he was missing sitters for fun an screwing up attacks with terrible passing.
RvP is not really making an impact in Turkey, benched often, I've defended him last season and maybe it's about the tactics and the manager or fitness issues, but he just isn't good enough to be a Utd starter anymore. Keeping big name players as a sub often doesn't work. Januzaj hasn't played a good match in about 2 years and isn't making an impression in Dortmund.
Maybe he couldnt have, I'd need to see it again to really decide but it could have been the earlier missed chance where he took far too many touches playing on his mind.
The way I see it is that he has said so often now that our play in the final third needs to improve, we need to play with more tempo. I was getting concerned at our inability to do that because usually his teams pick up the tempo around mid-november, the fact today we saw the players with a higher tempo during the first 20 minutes which then dropped but was picked up again after the team talk is promising and it resulted in more chances created.
I'm thinking more of the same from here on, play with that tempo against Wolfsburg as we need to if we are to win, away to Bournemouth do the same and so on. A player like Depay could take advantage of that consequently adding some goals.
The manager is responsible for getting us scoring but he is also responsible for getting us keeping clean sheets. In the summer there was a lot of pessimism about our defence because of how easily we conceded chances last season only for De Gea to save us, when Blind was moved to centre back the criticism was ridiculous considering a ball hadn't been kicked.
The defence is much improved on last season (despite the injuries, currently Shaw, Rojo, Jones, Valencia), our ability to assert control has also improved and finally our results away from home, three things that we struggled with. The attacking play was poor last season too and unfortunately still is now. The attacking play needs to be quicker, today we got that more than in previous games, after a good start in the first half it went back to our usual play but the second half was more like the first 20 mins showing the manager genuinely does want that increase in tempo and it's a matter of time before we start seeing it for 90 mins, when that happens we will consistently create chances.
Not sure I'd absolutely agree with that for the reason I previously mentioned, but certainly today wasn't entirely his fault. The problem is that we keep trying to frame these types of results as exceptions, when the reality is that they're part of a much larger, very worrying picture. It's like the oft used defence on here that "It happened in Fergie's time, too". Which is right. Except that then it was more the exception than the rule. They were part of the natural waxing and waning that every team goes through. Our current results are reflective of our style of football and, IMO, to a lesser extent, the players we have. I genuinely don't believe that it'll all 'click' and it'll be fine. This is what LVG wants, albeit with more goals.