Come on Nani. Bang one in on Sunday kid.
Luis Nani | 2012/13 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Well people say he doesn't produce on form yet I think all of us would say he'a not at his best yet, but he still contributed in both the Wigan and Gala game. So I don't see how anyone can argue he's not producing of form. No one bar messi and ronaldo constantly contributes on or off form, just look at silva at city who's taken off a lot more than you'd imagine given he's held as a world class player by most.
Does he frustrate at times? Yes undeniably so. But he's also one of the best wingers around, are there other top flair players out there who always produce? Who always take the right option? Cause I can't think of anyone. That's the problem that players like nani face. They take a shot from distance and don't score and they're a dick, if they score they're a hero.
But either way if nani can produce what he did when not at his best then that's still better than most wingers in the league, when he's in form he can be devestating.
Does he frustrate at times? Yes undeniably so. But he's also one of the best wingers around, are there other top flair players out there who always produce? Who always take the right option? Cause I can't think of anyone. That's the problem that players like nani face. They take a shot from distance and don't score and they're a dick, if they score they're a hero.
But either way if nani can produce what he did when not at his best then that's still better than most wingers in the league, when he's in form he can be devestating.
I could hazard a guess.
Ok, taking machines out of the equation, there are players where you do know what you are going to get from them. It's not a new concept.
Comes with age and experience. Giggs wasn't consistent at 25. Some players are more consistent than others. In our own team we have a lot of inconsistent players.
Didn't Giggs have a goal every three eurpoean games by 25? Which is pretty consistent.
If he can improve on his performance in the week and keep being creative he'll be grand. He'll get stick and encouragement in equal measure. Some just need to start taking criticism of their favourites so personally and accept we all see different things in different players.
You talk a lot amount of bullshit about Giggs.
You were 8 when Giggs was 25, how the hell do you know if he was consistent or not?
It's fact. Ask any of the posters.
It's also ironic that Moses uses stats to justify his point, yet when the same is done for Nani, he uses terms like "football manager" and "American football"
An "inconsistent Giggs" still managed to managed to score 9, 13, 11 goals in the league when he was 19, 20 and 22. Nani's highest goal tally is still 9.
I can't find the assists stats but I'm willing to bet it'd be bigger than Nani's.
Not sure why you needed to bring Giggs into this argument though.
Firstly I wasn't justifying a point, I was aking a question; of someone who didn't know what they were talking about as it turned out.
Irony is using almost getting 5 assist as a stat at all.
Almost getting 5 assists and actually scoring an actual goal in three games over 6 seasons is the same to you? You see that's the problem with stats, it's the words around the numbers that are more important.
It's obvious that you among others are here to point score more than discuss football.
I'm far too trusting, I imagined he watched himm week in week out.
Of course, but he could be more consistent. We all know it's impossible to play every game well, that's not even on the table.
Cheap shot KM by the way, sums you up as a poster. Shame i can't put you on ignore
Moses: Despite Giggs wonderful output, he went through patches of bad form through his career. Weren't our fans booing him for a while? Before that Juventus game?
I can dig up threads of posters talking about Giggs' failure to sustain the bright start he had in his career. When he was 25, in the treble year, was he consistent? Or is that all bs because he's Giggs, and I was 8?
Moses: Despite Giggs wonderful output, he went through patches of bad form through his career. Weren't our fans booing him for a while? Before that Juventus game?
I can dig up threads of posters talking about Giggs' failure to sustain the bright start he had in his career. When he was 25, in the treble year, was he consistent? Or is that all bs because he's Giggs, and I was 8?
Their were patches of hassle, not that I could ever understand it. I never had an issue with Giggs, he was always, from day 1 a big game player. I remember that stat only because his european showings were always better than his league games. Pretty unique over a long period of time. If anything Giggs' 'inconsistency' was the mark of a really great player, he played better in big games. He struggled with his hamstrings too which is quite a debilitating injury for a winger.
That 'cheap shot' was pretty relevant in fairness to KM.
Do you question Brwned's knowledge of the game? Ever? He is one of the best football posters on this forum, and yet he would have missed all the years that he talks about, but we accept that easily enough. Whatever the argument was I'm not getting involved in that, but it's a cheap shot to take.
Id like to thank the three headed monkey for doing my Nani loving and defending for me this week whilst my internet access is limited. Big up.
Great stuff from KM as usual too
Great stuff from KM as usual too
I'm not so sure, it's not about his overall knowledge, but if you talk about consistency in a season 15 or so years ago to make a point, surely first hand knowledge is needed?
To an extent, unless you were able to re-watch those matches or something. I don't know, but surely the more important thing is the actual point being made - whether that's right or wrong - rather than the assumption of them not remembering those games/not knowing what they are talking about.
Jesus, I thought adex was about 35.
I don't agree with that. Isn't it a bit impossible to say that he was inconsistent when you clearly haven't watched him match by match in season.
I wasn't even having a shot or anything, tbf. Adex likes to have a dig at Giggs from time to time, why even bother putting Giggs in there in a Nani thread where there's no relevance.
In Brwned's case, he usually has watched all of the matches(full) before he makes an opinion on the matches.
That's racist, Nick. Next you'll be calling him Kanu.
I don't fully know what that means. But I operate fully on the asumption that people know what they are talking about when they state something as fact.
Only fondly in PMs.
Well as Brwned has shown you can go back and watch players regardless of what age they were in comparison to you at the time. End of the day I'd be fairly confident that if you took a sample of people who watched Giggs during the 90's I doubt they'd say there were times where he didn't frustrate. I mean we've seen for years on this site now that people still get frustrated with Giggs and in periods during these latter years people have been saying he's playing better/smarter than ever.
Regarding Giggs anyway not only is/was he one of the best wingers ever in English football but also he generally played a lot more games than Nani has, so it's not surprising that he has more goals, I wouldn't imagine there is a huge difference in terms of ratio's not to mention other factors such as quality of the league and generally more defensive tactics these days.
Either way a better comparison is against other top players in his position currently and I don't see a huge amount of difference. In the PL Nani has been amongst the top performers in terms of goal/assists for a few season now. That's just an objective viewpoint, as we can all see each of us have a different opinion on how he played match to match, against Gala for example I would say he had a good game with some poor moments and some brilliant moments, others would have a very different opinion.
But as I said before stats aren't everything but they aren't meaningless either. And the stats show than Nani and say Valencia whom I would say most agree is a top class winger had very comparable seasons last year, yet Valencia is viewed as having a stellar season and Nani an average one. That for me goes to show that opinions do make a big difference in interpretation of how a player has performed. If you have a pre-set opinion on someone, then watch a tense game you might latch on to a fault in that player's game and let it distort the truth. I don't think that's just with Nani but with most players.
As people have pointed out the matchday threads are a great example of this. Sometimes reading them you'd think we're getting destroyed out there or player x is completely messing up our team. Then you watch it for yourself, particularly if it's after you know the result where you can be more objective and you can see it's not true. I personally know that against Wigan in the first half I was overly critical of the team as when I watched the first half again I saw that we weren't nearly as bad as I originally thought. Carrick was getting stick but on a rewatch it's clear he had a good first half in that game.
I think more than most for us Nani gets that treatment. It's not helped by him being a favourite player of ours for pundits to criticise. He's not a fan favourite in comparison to others and his faults are very individual. Like I said on SSN against Gala they were saying Nani had been poor and Valencia one of our best players on the night and even if you don't agree on the former the latter definitely wasn't true. It happens to other teams too. I always get the impression that Walcott under performs yet when I talk to Arsenal mates most disagree and when I saw his actual stats for goals/assists I was surprised. Not amazing but much better than I would have thought given the general consensus.
If people could name other flair players out there who are much more consistent I'd be surprised. I don't think there are that many out there who have a similar output to Nani with the defensive duties also expected of him. If it's that you don't like flair players in general then that's fair enough but I think we'd be missing something if we didn't have that sort of player in the team.
Regarding Giggs anyway not only is/was he one of the best wingers ever in English football but also he generally played a lot more games than Nani has, so it's not surprising that he has more goals, I wouldn't imagine there is a huge difference in terms of ratio's not to mention other factors such as quality of the league and generally more defensive tactics these days.
Either way a better comparison is against other top players in his position currently and I don't see a huge amount of difference. In the PL Nani has been amongst the top performers in terms of goal/assists for a few season now. That's just an objective viewpoint, as we can all see each of us have a different opinion on how he played match to match, against Gala for example I would say he had a good game with some poor moments and some brilliant moments, others would have a very different opinion.
But as I said before stats aren't everything but they aren't meaningless either. And the stats show than Nani and say Valencia whom I would say most agree is a top class winger had very comparable seasons last year, yet Valencia is viewed as having a stellar season and Nani an average one. That for me goes to show that opinions do make a big difference in interpretation of how a player has performed. If you have a pre-set opinion on someone, then watch a tense game you might latch on to a fault in that player's game and let it distort the truth. I don't think that's just with Nani but with most players.
As people have pointed out the matchday threads are a great example of this. Sometimes reading them you'd think we're getting destroyed out there or player x is completely messing up our team. Then you watch it for yourself, particularly if it's after you know the result where you can be more objective and you can see it's not true. I personally know that against Wigan in the first half I was overly critical of the team as when I watched the first half again I saw that we weren't nearly as bad as I originally thought. Carrick was getting stick but on a rewatch it's clear he had a good first half in that game.
I think more than most for us Nani gets that treatment. It's not helped by him being a favourite player of ours for pundits to criticise. He's not a fan favourite in comparison to others and his faults are very individual. Like I said on SSN against Gala they were saying Nani had been poor and Valencia one of our best players on the night and even if you don't agree on the former the latter definitely wasn't true. It happens to other teams too. I always get the impression that Walcott under performs yet when I talk to Arsenal mates most disagree and when I saw his actual stats for goals/assists I was surprised. Not amazing but much better than I would have thought given the general consensus.
If people could name other flair players out there who are much more consistent I'd be surprised. I don't think there are that many out there who have a similar output to Nani with the defensive duties also expected of him. If it's that you don't like flair players in general then that's fair enough but I think we'd be missing something if we didn't have that sort of player in the team.
Definitely. When I talk about players it's about their overall game and the skills they possessed and generally how influential they could be in a game, there's no real way to judge the consistency of the player without having seen him week in, week out at the time.
The thing I like about Nani, even when he isn't playing well, is he's too dangerous with the ball at his feet for any team to risk leaving one on one, so he's always creating space for someone else.
If you give him the ball in a tight space by the touchline for example, both the opposition fullback and opposition winger will have to go over to him and leave our fullback free. If you give Young the ball in the same situation, usually one player will go to him, and the other will keep tabs on our fullback.
Very few teams have the guts to take us on down his flank because they know he'll just skip past any player they leave exposed.
If you give him the ball in a tight space by the touchline for example, both the opposition fullback and opposition winger will have to go over to him and leave our fullback free. If you give Young the ball in the same situation, usually one player will go to him, and the other will keep tabs on our fullback.
Very few teams have the guts to take us on down his flank because they know he'll just skip past any player they leave exposed.
Sorry about my comments, I was out of line.
That is very true.
And I think the thing about the criticism, is that is relative. I never think twice when he's in the starting 11.
Only caught parts of this Giggs debate, He really has been a fantastic player for us but he has always had bad spells through his career (was it around 1997 he went around a year without scoring?) My personal opinion is that he always produces his best football when he was not guaranteed his place in the first 11 in his early days he had to fight Lee Sharpe for his place who was a very gifted left winger before his problems with injury & lifestyle and in the treble year we also had Jesper Blomqvist who was another quality winger before injury ruined him. Always felt when Giggs never had that challenge in his younger days his performances could slack off a bit.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that it's futile to compare players across the generations. Too many objective variables in pitches, playing contexts, conditioning etc and too many subjective variables in the observer from naive to jaded, to biased to forgetful, to romanticised. Messi is the best tho'.
That's kinda what I said. Only better.
Against Gala, or even Wigan, people raving at how bad Nani is, his head is not right, he thinks he's Ronaldo, he should be sold, all the usual crap... And I thought he had a good game overall. Didn't light the world on fire, and made a couple of bad choices, but yet put Chicha and Evra in the face of goal, had a great passing completion, and was popping up everywhere on the pitch, linked up with Kagawa, and made defenders scared at all times.
Even last season people would get crazy with him not doing shit, then he made an assist or/and even scored. That's why I said, even when things seems bad, at any given time he has the ability to play a deadly ball.
The penalty missed clouded the judgment for a lot of people. Frustration was already pilled up, unless he could pull a RvP and score a hattrick.
Giggs was always inconsistent. For me, he used to have 1-2 month periods where he was the best player in the world and the rest of the time he was just decent. There is a reason that he never won major individual awards.
Please don't say people are comparing Giggs with Nani. One of the all time greats against a decent squad player Decent squad player 
As a general rule wingers are inconsistent, their play revolves around taking risks and if the risks come off they had a stormer; reverse it and they had a stinker. Nani does need to stop dropping of so frequently though, just as he can create something from nothing he can completely balls up our attacking play on a bad or even average day numerous times. It's time he started justifying his price tag over more than just 10 or 12 games.
He's clearly not a "decent squad player". If that's his desciption how would you describe the likes of Park and Oshea over the years?
I don't think people are particularly comparing him to Giggs as a player anyway. It's a discussion on wingers and their inconsistencies. Giggs is the best winger at our club to use as an example because the Ronaldo was ridiculously consistent.
I don't think people are particularly comparing him to Giggs as a player anyway. It's a discussion on wingers and their inconsistencies. Giggs is the best winger at our club to use as an example because the Ronaldo was ridiculously consistent.
Nani can be better player at top of his game than Giggs at top of his(not wife, or anyone else), but he will never be consistent looking through his whole career year-by-year like Giggs, so in that way they cannot be compared, but looking their consistency game-by-game, you could easily compare them.
Giggs at his best was something else, I don't think will ever get close to those sort of performances but he can still make come up with greater productivity (15-20 goals a season and 15 assists for instance)
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