Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Ok, understood. I think it’s worth pointing out that it hardly starts and stops at City. Abu Dhabi also bought 90% of the iconic Chrysler building in New York a couple of months before the City purchase, something which was far more high profile considering City weren’t exactly successful at the time of the takeover. City’s owner also has many other business interests in western countries such as the Hakkasan nightclub venture, bought (and later sold) billions of pounds worth of shares in Barclays at the time of the banking crisis. Not to mention the billions of pounds it cost to build the Yas Marina Grand Prix circuit in Abu Dhabi which of course is now an essential part of the F1 roster. Despite all that, it only ever seems to be City’s name that gets associated with negative publicity relating to Abu Dhabi.
Undoubtedly!
Curious, because 'Glaston' isn't a term of endearment on here.
You’re on form tonight!
They are outstanding, performing fantastic football with fantastic players. Earning 58 out of 60 points this is just incredible. Maybe I am going to see the new champions with the highest points earned in PL history (current holder is Chelsea 
)
add: I hope Chelsea will meet them again in Carabao Cup final as well. We lost convincingly at Stamford Bridge but with a fully fit Chelsea team I just want to test them again
)add: I hope Chelsea will meet them again in Carabao Cup final as well. We lost convincingly at Stamford Bridge but with a fully fit Chelsea team I just want to test them again
No problem mate. I think the Yiddish thing, in relation to football, is more complicated. I don't think its derogatory in itself but because Spurs' fans have adopted it in respect of their Jewish heritage it is then used as an insult by Chelsea and West Ham in particular when describing Spurs. So non-Jewish Spurs fans get vile songs sung at them which are insulting to any Jews in attendance. I'm not sure where I stand on whether Spurs should sing 'Yid Army' or not.
You could pick up 5 different things from this short clip. This is training, not instinct.
You can commentate all you want on it but I have lived there while you're just another internet armchair expert in my opinion. You'r free to say/do what you want but just be aware any person that has had actual experience will find your commentary on the matter laughable/irrelevant.
Again, there is nothing Muslim or Islamic about Manchester City. The only way Manchester City relates to Muslims is that the owners (probably) practice Islam. As mentioned above, if you have no problem with the way that was worded you should have no problem with someone saying "We're up against those wealthy Jews" when referring to Chelsea.
There is no need to discuss these things under this topic.
What experience? Please elaborate. Tell me which part of my points are wrong regarding the ruling classes of those specific states and their Trojan horse style manipulation of football as an image/icon in order to safeguard themselves against wider threats?
I'll only reply if you can criticise the points. If you want to criticise me, then you can continue solo.
I have no problem with statements of fact that are highly unlikely to be loaded with ulterior motives. His choice of words wasn't politically astute, but nor was it racist.
Wealthy Jews is clearly racist. It connotes a history of oppression and holocaust going back a thousand years or so. "Wealthy Muslims" is wrong, but it doesn't possess a simulacrum of the same taste as that associated with antisemitism.
Religion is beside the point though, as the rulers of these states aren't actually religious.
Look at that movement from atleast 4-5 players. Our team just stands there waiting for a cross to come in, which just hits the first defender.
I think it's no use arguing with you because first of all, I didn't even say it was racist but this is the second time you are telling me it is not racist. Second, If you're going to pick and choose what is racist and what isn't between "Wealthy Jews" and "Wealthy Muslims" then I feel you are either biased or aren't seeing it objectively just because of what is accepted.
Tell me this. If you think it is okay to say "Wealthy Muslims" in that context, would you ever see Garry Neville say it on Monday night football?
Ad hominem. You'll have to address the first sentence of my post before I reply again. If that sounds condescending, nothing I can do about it. I'm not going back and forth unless you have a legitimate objection to my point, rather than some mild offense taken to something inoffensive.
I don't watch Monday night football. One, because it's crap. Two, because I don't judge what can or should be a moral norm based on what Gary fecking Neville thinks.
As opposed to City without Mendy, Stones and lost Kompany to injury. Being a City fan surely you would say United have no excuse, they played against a back 4 of Walker, Otamendi, Fernandinho and Delph, so go on.
Admit the reason United offered nothing is because Jose is a coward who was afraid to attack a small back 4 with no 6ft plus player and madeup of 2 CM's for 30 minutes. No they wouldn't have played Fellaini over Herrera why would they? because Fellaini is better defensively? or Herrera offensively? United fan or City fan, whatever you pretend to be you consistently know nothing about football regardless.
Yes missing Bailly, Jones and Paul Pogba is the same as a City team missing KDB, Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho, Stones and our first choice keeper. Honestly just when I think your posts can't get any worse.... Go be a Wum with someone else I'm putting you on ignore from now on. City fan my bollix.
Then we're done. I don't think that part of the post is relevant to this and I've said what I had to.
The above is my sole point. You claimed that living in a specific country (UAE, I'm assuming) privileged you with expert knowledge on the topic which you are now reluctant to share. If you don't wish to continue, then fair enough. Probably for the best as we're going way off topic. Still, if you make that claim and then label others as illegitimate ("arm chair experts") in the same discussion, you should really back it up or admit that you were wrong. Though perhaps I'm a contrarian and in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter.
Just stop responding. Most effective way.
City are FIFTEEN points clear and he’s not had one good thing to say, for someone who supposedly supports the club it’s blindingly obvious. Why satisfy the chap with response.
You don’t win 18 on the bounce in this league unless you are exceptional. To put it in to perspective, despite decades of dominance United have never done it. Let that eat him up that City are a great team, while he calls us lucky.
Here’s to some more luck.
How does 'Trojan horse style manipulation of football as an image/icon in order to safeguard themselves against wider threats' actually work?
No it clearly is. Take a Rangers or any fan saying "Fenian wealth" in relation to Celtic, or a Celtic fan saying "Protestant money" on here, both would quite rightly be an immediate ban and rightly so. He also didn't way "wealthy muslims" but "muslim wealth", which looks completely derogatory in its wording. It is clearly implying it is not the same as another wealth, that their religion somehow has an influence on their wealth. Why exactly did he use their religion in sentence at all if not to be derogatory?
I'm not saying the guy is a KKK member or anything, but, that statement was casual racism at its most blatant and he's rightly gone on the back of it.
In the sense that the UAE and Qataris are pumping billions of state money into football in order to give themselves an image makeover. They're using the cultural capital of football as a piggyback toward legitimacy within the wider frameworks of world diplomacy.
Roman laid the blueprint, the Gulf states have followed.
I'll admit, it was clumsy but I still don't see it as racist. He was banned for being an idiot anyway, but I assumed he meant "wealthy Muslims" as in rich Muslims, instead of "Muslim wealth". We'll never know, but I'll concede I may have been wrong about his intent.
Apologies for derailing the thread.
You are a good poster mate which is why your reply kind of caught me off guard. I understand where you're coming from 100%. As I said in my earlier reply to him, I get the impression it was more a new member trying to show how he bleeds United blood by tearing into City who got carried away but the guy could of just said so. I guess we'll never know his real intentions but I'll openly admit I reported that post as that is genuinely how I found the ruling. Anyway I think we should probably knock this on the head, agree to disagree before we turn the thread into another Griezmann one.
Without doubt. 100% coached as the movements and interchanging is very unnatural looking.
Everyday I learn something new about my own country!
First, we had complete aliens continously dectating us how our country should be run, imposing their version of democracy, neglecting every achievement happening in the last 40 years.
They will hammer our lack of free speech rights, because we locked up 60 islamists, ignoring the fact the UAE has one of the best experiences in cracking down these kind of movements, when the West is still not even able to identify those running right, left, and center in their countries. More ironically, it is ok to censor or ban posters on a football forum, but when it comes to national security, governments should let people do whatever they want.
I prefer our version of free speech. Whenever I have an issue, the rulers’ doors are open twice EVERY week, where basically anyone can go and directly express thier concerns. I have already done it twice. You can stick to your petitions, rallies and youtube free speech if that is what suits you.
And now, you are telling me you are the expert on their religous state?
They are religous muslims just like I am, unless your version of our religion is similar to that one portrayed by the propagandists.
Agreed.
I approved your post in the spirit of free speech
, when you reach 10 likes you can tag me in the current affairs forum.I've sensed something similar in the way Pep talks about Kompany before, but I don't think we want him to move on. There's no real value in selling him because we'd get nothing for him because of his injuries whereas it's worth keeping him in case he can keep fit because he is still an excellent player; it's also clear from the way Pep speaks about him that he rates him too, and he starts him pretty much all the time when available. Not to mention his role as captain and the image he projects for the club.
Never seen Inigo Martinez play to be honest but that sounds good, and at under £30m he doesn't have to be spectacular to be a successful signing.
I really don't think that is beyond our attacking players, they just aren't being coached to do it. That is the difference currently.
Just stop responding. Most effective way.
City are FIFTEEN points clear and he’s not had one good thing to say, for someone who supposedly supports the club it’s blindingly obvious. Why satisfy the chap with response.
You don’t win 18 on the bounce in this league unless you are exceptional. To put it in to perspective, despite decades of dominance United have never done it. Let that eat him up that City are a great team, while he calls us lucky.
Here’s to some more luck.
I don’t really get the sneering here.
To put it in to further perspective, City have spent more on their team since the Sheik took over than United have in the entire history of the Premier League.
Being bankrolled by a state might be fun to allow you to troll on a United forum but it removes all legitimacy from your achievements.
City could go out and spend another £200m in January and win every game from now to the end of the season. It would still pale in comparison to the very real and persisting achievements of Ferguson and United, and any other clubs who have done the hard yards to build their own success.
If you’re just getting a dig in at the WUM poster, fair enough, but it’s pretty vulgar and premature to anoint yourself a great team with not a trophy in the bag and not an ounce of European pedigree.
This is the thing that City fans on here and elsewhere seem to fail to grasp. Aside from the media love-in, their own fans and ABUs on the comments section of the Daily Mail, very few people give any legitimacy to what City have achieved by continuing to buy success with cash injections from a corrupt state responsible for atrocities. The owners invested over £930 million in the pursuit of their first league title. Given all the money they have since invested on the plastic fanfare that is their youth academy and training complex, they must be pushing a total of £3 billion in investment.
They have actually vastly underachieved for that level of investment. If you took an actual big club of years gone by such as Leeds and invested £3 billion in 10 years you would expect to see far better results, particularly as City started in the PL. They have made a mockery of FFP with their dodgy self-sponsoring. Their owners make a mockery of the 'fit and proper person' test.
Rant aside, this leaves any achievements without any authenticity. Any team would expect to be winning league titles with £3 billion pumped into it. It isn't special. They won't be regarded as "Champions" in the same way United were in treble or double winning seasons; Arsenal were as "invincibles" or Leicester were when they won the league, they will merely be the title holders.
City aren't a big club, just a very well assembled team.
An example of Pep's micromanaging. It's something they've worked and worked on the training ground, bit like his Barca side. City are very good at controlling matches, and they do play some lovely football but at times against Newcastle, the possession and control was almost too good. It was sterile-like. That's not a critique, but when they don't score and/or take their chances, it must be frustrating.
This level of detail is something a lot of Premier League managers don't work on in the training ground. Either because they don't have the players to do so, don't think they can drill them, or don't think its necessary. Many of the old-school managers like Wenger wouldn't coach that, for them its all about intuition and letting players think on their feet. Great when you have intelligent players, but crazy when you have ill-disciplined duds. Yet their reckless approach does make for good viewing as we've seen in Arsenal's last couple of televised matches.
This is so true and for me it's the most frustrating thing. I've been called a City fan because of the thread I created and my username (dumb choice I get that) but I absolutely loathe City, not because of the rivalry but because of how false the whole thing is. Chelsea at least were mildly competitive before Roman came in. City have sprung up from absolutely nowhere and some will say football needs that to stay fresh but I just think that's nonsense. Build your success, earn the rewards. It's like playing Football Manager, quitting and restarting until you get the result you desire.
The Men Behind Man City: a documentary not coming soon to a cinema near you
https://medium.com/@NcGeehan/the-me...coming-soon-to-a-cinema-near-you-14bc8e393e06
https://medium.com/@NcGeehan/the-me...coming-soon-to-a-cinema-near-you-14bc8e393e06
Kerrr-ist...
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...cal-review-2017-pep-guardiola-manchester-city
More fawning here:Guardian said:
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...cal-review-2017-pep-guardiola-manchester-city
Readers' comments:
'If he doesn't wear a sheepskin and smoke a cigar in the winter, then he's shit as far as I'm concerned. Big Ron, Harry Bassett, Joe Kinnear, Cloughie, Cesar Menotti, Cruyff himself; none of them looked like a fecking Abercrombie and Fitch catalogue on the sidelines. Touchline fashion tactics, Pep has still got a lot to learn.'
'Sheepy, cigar in one hand and scotch in the other. Driving to the game in a massive Jag, pissed. Doing an advert for a mate's double glazing firm. Again, pissed. You may think you're the top gaffer now Pep, but you've still got some way to go to win me over.'
'If he doesn't wear a sheepskin and smoke a cigar in the winter, then he's shit as far as I'm concerned. Big Ron, Harry Bassett, Joe Kinnear, Cloughie, Cesar Menotti, Cruyff himself; none of them looked like a fecking Abercrombie and Fitch catalogue on the sidelines. Touchline fashion tactics, Pep has still got a lot to learn.'
'Sheepy, cigar in one hand and scotch in the other. Driving to the game in a massive Jag, pissed. Doing an advert for a mate's double glazing firm. Again, pissed. You may think you're the top gaffer now Pep, but you've still got some way to go to win me over.'
Wasn't there a huge thread all about this like literally a week ago? A thread you made 5 posts in btw so you didn't miss it... is there a need to post it here as well?
After you posting the link about the men behind City and this I'm sure you're on the wind up.
All our titles are legitimate, look at the record books. As if we could care what the opinions of those jealous of our achievements are. I've actually talked to tons of non ABU's and City fans who have no issue whatsoever with our titles and also to many who have. Incidentally the ones who have also had issue with Uniteds.
Tell me one single City fan who thinks we're a club the size of United or any of the historically big clubs? Just one post by a City fan on here saying that you won't find us arguing we are so your last sentence is purely wumming as well.
All the rest of your post is pure and utter bitter shite pulled from the depths of your imagination.
And like clockwork, along comes one of the individuals I was describing. Brilliant. You could not make it up.
Wouldn't mind a documentary about the atrocities of the British government which makes the Premier League possible, "The Men Behind the Premier League" if you will. Have a feeling the latter has more brown person blood on their hand than the former.
For what it's worth I have a huge problem with the way they conduct themselves but watching Brtis have a go at the country their government created, with rulers they installed at the time they are bombing multiple countries in the region against international law is a bit hypocritical.
And like clockwork, along comes one of the individuals I was describing. Brilliant. You could not make it up.
Only in your imagination is what you say true. As I said, you're post is full of shite, your bitter and it shows. You honestly believe anyone who thinks city's trophies are legitimate are ABU.... The media, city fans and any people who acknowledge City (automatically become ABU) to validate the shite you just spouted. And you laugh at getting a response. That's what you couldn't make up.
Our achievements are just as legit as yours... check the record books. There is no asterix beside them except in your imagination.
But carry on pretending you're hilarious when we both know your crying a little inside and blaming big bad Abu Dhabi people for your club getting trounced. Maybe post that link about our owners in another City thread to try and make yourself feel good. You keep doing that, Jose will keep parking the bus and we at City will keep concentrating on winning a league that will not count because it'll only be legit to ABU's.
Honestly though, I know what its like to support the weakest team in Manchester while your cross city rivals are looking better and I know what its like to be jealous. Can't say I've ever had such issues with United or spouted such rubbish because of it but meh, people deal with their football jealousy in different ways. God help you if you ever end up where City did.