Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

[Rood]

Whenever I see you posts, Rood, I'm reminded of the great Harold Rood. May he rest forever in peace, his country and his students forever in his debt.

I'd actually never heard of this bloke until someone else on this forum mentioned him to me in the past

 

[Gannicus]

I'd actually never heard of this bloke until someone else on this forum mentioned him to me in the past

Someone else mentioned Harry here???

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_W._Rood

 

[Enigma_87]

Well, it is still a 20 loss.

I think that a physical team would pay around 15m for Fellaini. I guess that the likes of Big Sam, Pulis would love to have him in his team. MOyes too, probably he will sign him for the third time.

Well nobody bothered to pay his release clause of 23m when he was Everton's best player. He's not setting the world alight now, so his value is more likely to drop, rather than rise. Also he's getting older, has higher salary etc etc...

 

[Revan]

Well nobody bothered to pay his release clause of 23m when he was Everton's best player. He's not setting the world alight now, so his value is more likely to drop, rather than rise. Also he's getting older, has higher salary etc etc...

High salary will be a big problem IMO (probably we will need to pay a part of it even when he leaves, or else face a Barry scenario) but I think that a midtable club would play 10-15m for him. It is around half as his original clause at Everton.

 

[Rood]

Yeah you don't...

those arent worthy comparisons plus a couple you posted are over £10m anyway which proves my point

others were artificially low due to contract coming to an end (De Bryne just went for €20m), several were a few years ago and/or were not regular internationals at the time of the transfer.

so try again and show me a player of similar age and international experience who has gone for £10m

 

[Revan]

so try again and show me a player of similar age and international experience who has gone for £10m

Belgium or other?

 

[Rood]

Belgium or other?

any decent international team will do

 

[Revan]

any decent international team will do

Arturo Vidal.
Nuri Sahin
Mesut Ozil
Sami Khedira

Even Dembele isn't that far off (15m).

 

[Rood]

Someone else mentioned Harry here???

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_W._Rood

I have vague memories of someone asking me if my name was related to some US professor, I assume it was him.

 

[Enigma_87]

those arent worthy comparisons plus a couple you posted are over £10m anyway which proves my point

others were mostly due to contract coming to an end (De Bryne just went for €20m), several were a few years ago and/or were not regular internationals at the time of the transfer.

so try again and show me a player of similar age and international experience who has gone for £10m

After reportedly falling out of favour with Inter due to contract renewal issues, on 20 January 2013, Sneijder agreed a three-and-a-half-year deal with Turkish club Galatasaray for a fee of €7.5 million

On 23 January 2014, Chelsea announced that a deal had been agreed with Basel to bring Salah to London for a fee reported to be in the region of £11 million

On 2 June 2009, Barry signed a five-year contract with Manchester City for a fee of £12 million

On 26 June 2012, Arsenal won the race to sign Giroud on a long-term contract for a fee believed to be around £9.6 million

Just off the top of my head. There are a lot of deals that went through that 10m range for footballers that are better than Fellaini.

Regardless of contract or not, every year someones contract is due to expire.

Fellaini is on much higher wage than at Everton.

Who is the last player that we sold for more than 10m?

 

[Rood]

Arturo Vidal.
Nuri Sahin
Mesut Ozil
Sami Khedira

Even Dembele isn't that far off (15m).

read what I said above - all those example are players nearing the end of their contract so obviously the fee is artificially low, not to mention that some were several years ago in a different market and much less experienced players

and in case you havent noticed, Ozil (similar age now but not 4 years ago) just moved for 40fecking mil

and Dembele is 50% off, also doesnt start for Belgium as often as Fellaini

 

[Rood]

Just off the top of my head. There are a lot of deals that went through that 10m range for footballers that are better than Fellaini.

Regardless of contract or not, every year someones contract is due to expire.

Fellaini is on much higher wage than at Everton.

Who is the last player that we sold for more than 10m?

you are coming up stuff from 5 years ago to try and prove an idiotic statement, even back then it was higher than £10m!

and the contract is obviously vital in a players' transfer fee - pointless to ignore it.

 

[Sandikan]

as if the ridiculous elbow wasn't bad enough, now this spitting thing.

You couldn't make it up

 

[Enigma_87]

you are coming up stuff from 5 years ago to try and prove an idiotic statement, even back then it was higher than £10m!

and the contract is obviously vital in a players worth - pointless to ignore it.

Sneijder moved to Galatasaray for 7.5m EUR last year and is much more experienced on international stage than Fellaini.

There are players that are much better players than Fellaini that went for around 10m.

Of course you will take advantage of situation with expiring contract, why to ignore it? Better that than pay 27.5m for Fellaini or 35m for Carroll.

Fellaini is on much higher wage now, wouldn't you take into an account that? You pleasantly forget the fact that he's on 125k salary at the moment. Will Fulham or Villa or Everton or even Arsenal pay him that?

We're stuck with him and he's not moving anywhere because no one will want to buy him, or the ones that want he won't take that much of a paycut.

He's pretty much long term problem.

For how much do United sell their players? Nani and Anderson are internationals (especially Nani). How much do you think we can get from them at the moment?

 

[Rood]

Sneijder moved to Galatasaray for 7.5m EUR last year and is much more experienced on international stage than Fellaini.

There are players that are much better players than Fellaini that went for around 10m.

Of course you will take advantage of situation with expiring contract, why to ignore it? Better that than pay 27.5m for Fellaini or 35m for Carroll.

Fellaini is on much higher wage now, wouldn't you take into an account that? You pleasantly forget the fact that he's on 125k salary at the moment. Will Fulham or Villa or Everton or even Arsenal pay him that?

We're stuck with him and he's not moving anywhere because no one will want to buy him, or the ones that want he won't take that much of a paycut.

He's pretty much long term problem.

For how much do United sell their players? Nani and Anderson are internationals (especially Nani). How much do you think we can get from them at the moment?

This has gone way off the point now.

You said that if we sold Fellaini today, we would be lucky to get £10m and Im telling you that is complete bullshit

I then challenged you to come up with players of similar age, contract and experience (the vital factors when assesing market value) who have sold recently for £10m or less - you come up with pointless lists of players from either several years ago or ones at the end of their contract or who were much younger - clearly none are worthwhile comparisons.

Nani we can easily sell for £15m+, Anderson we would be lucky to get a packet of smarties but then he has never been a regular international like Fellaini has been for several years.

 

[Enigma_87]

This has gone way off the point now.

You said that if we sold Fellaini today, we would be lucky to get £10m and Im telling you that is complete bullshit

I then challenged you to come up with players of similar age, contract and experience (the vital factors when assesing market value) who have sold recently for £10m or less - you come up with pointless lists of players from either several years ago or ones at the end of their contract or who were much younger - clearly none are worthwhile comparisons.

Nani we can easily sell for £15m+, Anderson we would be lucky to get a packet of smarties but then he has never been a regular international like Fellaini has been for several years.

I didn't say that we would be lucky to get £10m. Read my opening post on this topic. I said that no club at the moment IMO will buy him for more than £10m. There are better options available, again internationals of various age for that value, regardless whether they are on expiring contract or not.

I don't think any club at the moment will fork more than £10m for Fellaini - yes. Those which would will be put off by his salary demands.

Let's see the smarties we will get for Fellaini, because I can't see his game flourishing at United the same way it did at Everton.

 

[An Irish Red]

Moyes has the football league second division title he won at Preston north end and he also won the community shield last summer with United.

I laughed, genuinely.

 

[Blasphemy]

NoArroJusBeta is apparently to Belgians what Vuc is to Serbians. Best just to ignore and move on.

 

[Loublaze]

It's funny you say all these top clubs were after him. He had a simple release clause.

So why didn't these top clubs pay that?

I bet Scholes knows a good midfielder when he sees one. And with Fellaini, we are seeing none of that. He is slow just plays it safe and hasn't even scored.

Sad that we're stuck with him for at least another season. I take solace in the fact that if we do recruit 1-2 quality CMs this summer, his appearances will be limited.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Lads fellaini's not going anywhere stop crying over spilt milk

 

[Shinjisan]

He is donkey. Always was and always will be.

If we neglect the transfer fee paid for him and purely judge him based on his suitability as a squad member in games against oppositions from 6-20, he is not a bad player to have.

That's how I console myself.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

He is donkey. Always was and always will be.

If we neglect the transfer fee paid for him and purely judge him based on his suitability as a squad member in games against oppositions from 6-20, he is not a bad player to have.

That's how I console myself.

and whats so wrong with doing that? if he can dominate 28 prem games a season + cups? Thats honestly how I see it. Unless we play 3 CMs in the big games he is going to get overrun, so why not just play him in the 30-40 other games in the season and do something different for the big games? Wouldn't be a waste of money then, not to me, with 50 games in a season you need 5-6 centre mids

EDIT: not having a go at you, just asking, is what I'm saying sensible to you? Sometimes I don't even know myself

 

[Shinjisan]

and whats so wrong with doing that? if he can dominate 28 prem games a season + cups? Thats honestly how I see it. Unless we play 3 CMs in the big games he is going to get overrun, so why not just play him in the 30-40 other games in the season and do something different for the big games? Wouldn't be a waste of money then, not to me, with 50 games in a season you need 5-6 centre mids

EDIT: not having a go at you, just asking, is what I'm saying sensible to you? Sometimes I don't even know myself

I guess we are saying the same thing. For 27.5m you do expect a top class player but in our midfield, as bare as it has looked this season, he is not a bad squad option when the fee is ignored.

 

[Cheesy]

and whats so wrong with doing that? if he can dominate 28 prem games a season + cups? Thats honestly how I see it. Unless we play 3 CMs in the big games he is going to get overrun, so why not just play him in the 30-40 other games in the season and do something different for the big games? Wouldn't be a waste of money then, not to me, with 50 games in a season you need 5-6 centre mids

EDIT: not having a go at you, just asking, is what I'm saying sensible to you? Sometimes I don't even know myself

Unfortunately though, he's not going to dominate 28 games a season. He may dominate the occasional few here or there, but he's not going to dominate the majority of games he plays in. And when he doesn't play well and impose himself on the game, he's fairly useless since he's not great on the ball.

Bottom line is if you sign a player for £25m+ then people are going to criticise you if he's not excellent because that's money that could have been invested on someone better. If he's a player that's been signed for that sort of money but isn't going to feature in any big games, he's a poor signing.

 

[FreakyJim]

You have to ask yourself - does Fellaini actually improve us in any way? Height is the one thing I can come up with. Is he a better passer than what we already have? - No. Is he fast? - No. A better defender? Nope. Then why the fecking feck did we sign him? WHY.

 

[Sandikan]

We've all been over and over this.

But at 27.5million he should bloody be a key player in that midfield.

And he isn't. He's someone we have to puppy walk through games, never sure if he's going to smash someone, or be caught 50yards from the action.
A few nice controls on the chest isn't enough.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Unfortunately though, he's not going to dominate 28 games a season. He may dominate the occasional few here or there, but he's not going to dominate the majority of games he plays in. And when he doesn't play well and impose himself on the game, he's fairly useless since he's not great on the ball.

Bottom line is if you sign a player for £25m+ then people are going to criticise you if he's not excellent because that's money that could have been invested on someone better. If he's a player that's been signed for that sort of money but isn't going to feature in any big games, he's a poor signing.

I just don't agree with your logic, he's played well every game since he's come back bar liverpool and city for me. Been our best player a few times. I think he's tidier on the ball than people give him credit for by a mile too, but I don't expect people to love that idea. I just think he'll be a moderate success here, dominate plenty of games vs lower physical sides, get a few goals. Couldn't care less about 27m, it'll be a year soon, it's not my money, I'm over it

 

[Crashoutcassius]

You have to ask yourself - does Fellaini actually improve us in any way? Height is the one thing I can come up with. Is he a better passer than what we already have? - No. Is he fast? - No. A better defender? Nope. Then why the fecking feck did we sign him? WHY.

yeah he gives us one of the best aerial presences in the league you've answered your own question, thats what makes him quite an influential player

 

[Cheesy]

I just don't agree with your logic, he's played well every game since he's come back bar liverpool and city for me. Been our best player a few times. I think he's tidier on the ball than people give him credit for by a mile too, but I don't expect people to love that idea. I just think he'll be a moderate success here, dominate plenty of games vs lower physical sides, get a few goals. Couldn't care less about 27m, it'll be a year soon, it's not my money, I'm over it

And those games he hasn't played well have been big ones, funnily enough. Don't get me wrong, he's improved and demonstrated he's capable of being a decent squad player, but he's a physical player that largely epitomises what's wrong with Moyes. I actually agree he's better on the ball than people give him credit for, but that doesn't mean he's great on it considering most think he's awful on the ball. The top sides have players who are very good on the ball. It's not good enough that we've regressed to a level where one of our regular midfielders who's one of the clubs most expensive signing isn't bad on it.

It's not your money, but you're a fan of the club, and you presumably care about the club. That money spent on Fellaini could have been invested elsewhere; on a better player than Fellaini who's better on the ball and doesn't rely so heavily on physicality. If you support the club, surely you care about where that money's being spent? Unless you're a club like City or Chelsea who seem to have endless piles of cash, buying one player for a substantial fee means you can't just go out and buy another one if the player you bought isn't overly great. That money for Fellaini could have been spent on someone better, so surely you should care about the fee as a fan of the club?

 

[MoskvaRed]

I really fail to see what he brings to the table in midfield - lack of mobility, a heavy touch and not particularly strong in the tackle. He is great for a mid-table side who want to mix it up but at Champions League level? It is a terrible indictment of Moyes's ability to spend big money.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

Yeah you don't...

Vertonghen, £11m too.

Basically, Fellaini was wayyyyy overpriced.

 

[Shinjisan]

We've all been over and over this.

But at 27.5million he should bloody be a key player in that midfield.

And he isn't. He's someone we have to puppy walk through games, never sure if he's going to smash someone, or be caught 50yards from the action.
A few nice controls on the chest isn't enough.

The fact is that he is here. You can either keep bemoaning it or except him as a squad player and move on. There is no point is beating the same drum again and again.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

It's not your money, but you're a fan of the club, and you presumably care about the club. That money spent on Fellaini could have been invested elsewhere; on a better player than Fellaini who's better on the ball and doesn't rely so heavily on physicality. If you support the club, surely you care about where that money's being spent? Unless you're a club like City or Chelsea who seem to have endless piles of cash, buying one player for a substantial fee means you can't just go out and buy another one if the player you bought isn't overly great. That money for Fellaini could have been spent on someone better, so surely you should care about the fee as a fan of the club?

I understand what you're saying, but it'll be a year soon, people need to get over it. People literally hate fellaini because he cost 27m, they want to sell him because he cost 27m, not because he's not a good enough level for this club. People take the fee personally. I think when a year has gone since we paid the fee we should just ban people saying 27m in the forum unless its a thread called 'value for money players'. Like do we really need to assess his performance in a game that he plays well in 'yeah he played well, but 27m..' a year on from the fee being parted with.

Also, could we have invested the money in someone better? Did we not sign him a few minutes before the deadline, who could we have got in in that time? Yeah we could have saved the money but perhaps Moyes thought he needed an extra body in there, squad depth. Maybe we'd be waiting until the following summer to get someone of similar quality in. That's the problem, Moyes DID hesitate on spending the money on him in case we could get someone better before the deadline. But we couldn't.

There's a phrase called don't cry over spilt milk for a reason, nobody actually cares about the exact fee unless they're trying to bash him. He's our player so lets support him instead.

 

[bobbyf]

As pointed out before Fellaini made his Arsenal comment AFTER he had signed for us.

Wenger passed on him, yes. According to the rumours at the time he wasn't willing to cough up the 23 mill required to trigger the clause. But he did make contact with Everton regarding Fellaini. Which proves...what? I don't know. That he isn't a completely useless footballer? Perhaps. I don't think anyone here, not even his staunchest supporters, would claim he was worth his transfer fee.

Rumours? But Wenger has taken years to cough up serious money for anybody so no big surprise he was put off by his inflated price tag. Meaning, he didn't think he was worth it, but he still spent £42m on Ozil. And no other club went for Fellaini either. I'm sure lots of managers covet particular players, doesn't mean we should sign them.

And I didn't say useless. Average, yes. An improvement on our current midfield, no. We should be aiming to get a lot better. In fact, we needed an Ozil-type player last summer, not Fellaini.

 

[Cheesy]

I understand what you're saying, but it'll be a year soon, people need to get over it. People literally hate fellaini because he cost 27m, they want to sell him because he cost 27m, not because he's not a good enough level for this club. People take the fee personally. I think when a year has gone since we paid the fee we should just ban people saying 27m in the forum unless its a thread called 'value for money players'. Like do we really need to assess his performance in a game that he plays well in 'yeah he played well, but 27m..' a year on from the fee being parted with.

Also, could we have invested the money in someone better? Did we not sign him a few minutes before the deadline, who could we have got in in that time? Yeah we could have saved the money but perhaps Moyes thought he needed an extra body in there, squad depth. Maybe we'd be waiting until the following summer to get someone of similar quality in. That's the problem, Moyes DID hesitate on spending the money on him in case we could get someone better before the deadline. But we couldn't.

There's a phrase called don't cry over spilt milk for a reason, nobody actually cares about the exact fee unless they're trying to bash him. He's our player so lets support him instead.

I'm not taking it personally, I'm just saying that it's £27m that should've gone on someone better than Fellaini. I get what you're saying, but if we spend a lot of money on a player then it's going to be an issue. It's not going to just go away. We were linked to Herrera, for example, who would've arguably been a better buy. Moyes needing an extra body at the last minute isn't a legitimate excuse: he should've wrapped up deals much earlier in the summer so we weren't struggling at the last minute. Obviously that wasn't solely down to him, and I'm not claiming it's easy to do transfer deals. It's not, and people can often underestimate that, but that doesn't mean it's good enough to excuse the purchase by saying we needed another body.

But taking out the fee, he's still been mildly disappointing. His first few months were terrible. He's shown a lot of improvement and demonstrated he can make a decent squad player, but we need more than just decent squad players. In the long term, I'll be disappointed if he's a regular starter in our team because he's simply not good enough on the ball for a top level team. While he has improved a lot, he's still been poor in big games. Overall, on performances alone he's hardly set the world alight or been very impressive.

 

[Cheesy]

The fact is that he is here. You can either keep bemoaning it or except him as a squad player and move on. There is no point is beating the same drum again and again.

But most of us have accepted he's a squad player now. Just because we've accepted he's here doesn't mean he can't be criticised if we don't think he's all that great. There's a difference between not thinking someone's an overly great player and refusing to accept their presence.

 

[Shinjisan]

But most of us have accepted he's a squad player now. Just because we've accepted he's here doesn't mean he can't be criticised if we don't think he's all that great. There's a difference between not thinking someone's an overly great player and refusing to accept their presence.

I am not trying to stop anyone. We needed quality and we got him, not entirely his fault. It's just become tedious when it's the same recycled shit.

I hope it stops when we are challenging again next season and he is doing his bit. Which I believe he'll, despite being one of his biggest critics. He has already given a couple of good performances against mid-table opposition. And who know he might grow into his old role and surprise everyone.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Rumours? But Wenger has taken years to cough up serious money for anybody so no big surprise he was put off by his inflated price tag. Meaning, he didn't think he was worth it, but he still spent £42m on Ozil. And no other club went for Fellaini either. I'm sure lots of managers covet particular players, doesn't mean we should sign them.

And I didn't say useless. Average, yes. An improvement on our current midfield, no. We should be aiming to get a lot better. In fact, we needed an Ozil-type player last summer, not Fellaini.

Aye - rumours at the time + Fellaini himself saying Arsenal were in for him. That equals...that they were in fact in for him. But didn't feel he was worth that kind of money, as you rightly say. The point is that some people regard it as a big joke that Fellaini plays for United and that it's unthinkable any other top clubs were after him. Well, Arsenal were. Not for that kind of money - but they were.

And I agree that we needed something more. Moyes would agree too, I think, seeing as he was in for Fabregas. But all this is water under the bridge. The question now is whether Fellaini can do a job for us - and I think he can. His price tag is what it is. Whether it says something about Moyes' abilities in the transfer market depends entirely on what kind of budget he is on. If we land a top class CM this summer and Fellaini emerges as a squad option I for one won't harp on about what we paid for him last season.

 

[Cheesy]

I am not trying to stop anyone. We needed quality and we got him, not entirely his fault. It's just become tedious when it's the same recycled shit.

I hope it stops when we are challenging again next season and he is doing his bit. Which I believe he'll, despite being one of his biggest critics. He has already given a couple of good performances against mid-table opposition. And who know he might grow into his old role and surprise everyone.

Why is this an assumption? Nothing at the moment suggests we'll be challenging. Saying we'll challenge for top 4 is optimistic.

Even him growing into his old role isn't that encouraging, because while his old role suited Everton, it won't work here. He often played in behind the striker there and had the ball punted to him, but that's just not going to happen here, both because the fans would lose it if we started playing that sort of football, and because we've got infinitely better players for that position like Rooney and Mata. His other main role is as a defensive mid, but we're not the sort of side that should be playing as a typical destroyer. If we hope to get back to where we were, we need talented footballers that are good on the ball in the middle. He unfortunately doesn't fit into that category, even with his older roles.

 

[bobbyf]

I understand what you're saying, but it'll be a year soon, people need to get over it. People literally hate fellaini because he cost 27m, they want to sell him because he cost 27m, not because he's not a good enough level for this club. People take the fee personally. I think when a year has gone since we paid the fee we should just ban people saying 27m in the forum unless its a thread called 'value for money players'. Like do we really need to assess his performance in a game that he plays well in 'yeah he played well, but 27m..' a year on from the fee being parted with.

Also, could we have invested the money in someone better? Did we not sign him a few minutes before the deadline, who could we have got in in that time? Yeah we could have saved the money but perhaps Moyes thought he needed an extra body in there, squad depth. Maybe we'd be waiting until the following summer to get someone of similar quality in. That's the problem, Moyes DID hesitate on spending the money on him in case we could get someone better before the deadline. But we couldn't.

There's a phrase called don't cry over spilt milk for a reason, nobody actually cares about the exact fee unless they're trying to bash him. He's our player so lets support him instead.

People dislike him just as much for footballing reasons. I knew he was the wrong player for our midfield before they even signed him, so the inflated price tag is just another source of annoyance.

Could we have bought better? Yes, how about a midfield leader or someone who plays there week in week out? Moyes and Woodward messed about for ages trying to get Fabregas, when this was totally futile. He was going to leave Barca to play under Moyes? Never in a million years. He's Catalan, he's a natural replacement for Xavi, he's at Barca. Never gonna happen. So a total waste of time when they could have been pursuing others.

You talk about buying him for the sake of another body. But what's the point when he really doesn't improve our squad? He does not fit in our attacking style of play. He'll only ever be what King Eric famously used to call Deschamps, a water carrier. And is Fellaini anywhere near as good a player? No way.

Aye - rumours at the time + Fellaini himself saying Arsenal were in for him. That equals...that they were in fact in for him. But didn't feel he was worth that kind of money, as you rightly say. The point is that some people regard it as a big joke that Fellaini plays for United and that it's unthinkable any other top clubs were after him. Well, Arsenal were. Not for that kind of money - but they were.

And I agree that we needed something more. Moyes would agree too, I think, seeing as he was in for Fabregas. But all this is water under the bridge. The question now is whether Fellaini can do a job for us - and I think he can. His price tag is what it is. Whether it says something about Moyes' abilities in the transfer market depends entirely on what kind of budget he is on. If we land a top class CM this summer and Fellaini emerges as a squad option I for one won't harp on about what we paid for him last season.

There were rumours yesterday that the class of 92 were poised to buy United. In fact, they were buying Salford City. That's why I don't always believe tabloid speculation, cos there's a lot of inaccuracy and bollocks from journos, especially around the summer transfer window.

So we have to take Fellaini's word for that then? And anyway, it's irrelevant cos if they really thought he was any good they would have got him. That's why they got Flamini instead.

And we should just ignore the fact that we paid so much for someone who'll turn out to be a squad player? And you really think a top CM will want to play for Moyes after this season's debacle?