Regret? Yes. But isn't hindsight wonderful.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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Regret? Yes. But isn't hindsight wonderful.
They'd be wrong then
Miles short of what the club would expect from our record signing and a big earner. Definitely a flop from a pragmatic club point of view
In the season he finished top scorer, his goals directly contributed to something like 10 points (can't remember exactly - i'd have to check) - enough to make a big difference anyway.
Who thuogh? Rooney was AWOL and all we had was Hernandez... true someone might have stepped in and done just as well, but Berbatov was the man who was there, effected plenty of games, scored goals and played a massive part in us winning the league.
Might we have won it without him? Sure... would we definitley have? Less sure...
I agree that we needed more from him if we are to consider the fee involved and the expectations at a club like United (where winning the league is expected) - we needed him to effect big games more, as well as do a lot better in Europe - but I would regard the word 'flop' as being an outright failure - and I don't really think Berbatov's time here was a failure - his record in the league for us was just over 1 in 2, which isn't terrible (1 in 3 in all competitions - like I said, should have done more in Europe).
Then the question wasn't aimed at you then, was it?
I jest. I was more asking those who were annoyed at us spending over his release clause if they were happier if the suggestion that he ended up going for that amount was true.
Berbatov - flop, Ferdinand - success, Veron - flop, Rooney - success, Fellaini - lump?
The order in which you put the names is rather random no ?
Then the question wasn't aimed at you then, was it?
I jest. I was more asking those who were annoyed at us spending over his release clause if they were happier if the suggestion that he ended up going for that amount was true.
Would've preferred to have him signed in July to bed in with the team and begin the season with us to be honest. Paying £27.5m isn't something I'm annoyed about in general as I think he'll add a lot to the team and squad, but it's hard to look past us having gone about it in a fairly incompetent manner. That would be true even if he had managed to save us the £4m (which it doesn't appear he has).
It's not random but for my purposes I put Fellaini 5th even though it's debatable whether Rooney's transfer fee is higher or lower.
Is it true then that we've only ever signed five £20m+ players? I can't think of anyone else and I find that quite an astonishing figure considering the success we've achieved in the time since footballers began trading at such values.
Ferdinand, Fellaini, Rooney, Berbatov, Veron, Van Persie and maybe Anderson.
I think that's most, but more than 5 anyway.
I think that's most, but more than 5 anyway.
Fellaini should aspire to emulate what Fletcher brought to the side between 2006 and 2011. He may not be the same type of player as Fletch but hopefully his immense strength and stamina will help him achieve what Fletch used to do. I hope he smartens up on winning the ball back without fouling the opposition every time. I really hope he succeeds here and wish him well.
He's already a better player then Fletcher imho.
I dont, Im glad we got someone to replace Scholes tactical fouling.
Can't wait to see the big guy play for united!
He cost €30mil according to Porto.
http://www.fcporto.pt/IncFCP/pdf/Investor_Relations/FactosRelevantes/VendaAnderson2junho07.pdf
That was around 20mil sterling back then.
Nah, Fletcher proved his worth at the highest level, Fellaini still has to do that. I'd take Fletcher at his best over Fellaini any time.
He's not shown anything in central midfield that I've seen to put him above Fletcher during his peak years which were roughly at the same age Fellaini is now.
Does it matter? Fletcher at the moment is no use to us sadly. We are looking at the here and now and Fellaini is far more useful.
Lot of negative abu press from journos on the signing simply cos it is United, look up some articles from 2011 and 2012 from the same people to see them purring over how Fellaini was running and winning games on his own at times
I think the one thing people haven't really brought up is that Luiz Gustavo went to Wolfsburg for 18-22 mills. Personally I think he would be a much better purchase for us as he has really proven himself at the absolute highest level both internationally and at his club.
Even buying them both would be completely validated as Carrick is soon over the hill and if he gets injured/Fellaini gets injured we are still very fecked.
Gustavo also has the bonus of having shown that he can handle countering Spain/Barca's style very well which is very important for a DM at the highest level - this will be what decides Fellainis success or failure.
To be a DM these days at the highest level you also need the technical level and passing to be good enough with the ball in your team as well.
EDIT: As Moyes surely said no to Gustavo this should mean he is very confident that Fellaini will do a better job.
Even buying them both would be completely validated as Carrick is soon over the hill and if he gets injured/Fellaini gets injured we are still very fecked.
Gustavo also has the bonus of having shown that he can handle countering Spain/Barca's style very well which is very important for a DM at the highest level - this will be what decides Fellainis success or failure.
To be a DM these days at the highest level you also need the technical level and passing to be good enough with the ball in your team as well.
EDIT: As Moyes surely said no to Gustavo this should mean he is very confident that Fellaini will do a better job.
Gustavo a much superior DM in every aspect bar being a big tank.
Has Moyes extensively scouted Gustavo though? I thought Moyes would only really sign what his network has valued as 'the right signing'. I agree he's probably a better DM than Fellaini but at least Fellaini can play a DM role and an MC come AM role if need be and all at a relatively competent level.
Aerial duels people.. Aerial duels.
with fellaini, vidic, rvp, etc absolutly no fear against corners and fk's
Well Gustavo must have been scouted since the day Thiago joined and at such a low price(same price we recruited an 18-19 year old inexperienced Anderson for.) it was a clear "good purchase" for all clubs in Europe. Arsenal for example who probably couldn't have predicted that Gustavo would be available for this summer(before the Thiago purchase) made a bid for him which shows this.
I am not of the opinion that Gustavo should have been brought in instead of Fellaini as I think Moyes has never made an easier decision than buying Fellaini. He has huge experience and knowledge working with him, knows him inside out so if Moyes brings Fellaini in then that means Fellaini will be a success no doubt.
But I do however think that Gustavo for 18 mills would have been worth it even if we intended to buy Fellaini. If we want a player of Gustavos qualities next year we will pay the premium of 25-35.
Also now we are left knowing that if Carrick does get injured we are completely screwed as Fellaini-Cleverley is not even a guaranteed improvement of Ando-Clevs.
No it doesn't. It is irrelevant who brought him in, he simply won't be playing in the same role that he did at Everton and he is unproven as a top class centre midfielder which is where he will be playing.
spot on, Fellaini + Gustavo for 45Ms would have been an excellent piece of business.
Unproven? That is not true at all. In the 11-12 season alone he helped Everton beat Chelsea, City, Tottenham and drawing against United.
The only teams who are above these teams are Barca, Bayern, Real Madrid and possibly Juventus. So claiming he is unproven at the highest level is a bit ridiculous as hardly anybody we ever buy has extended experience against the top teams in the world.
Safe or comfortable. Which imo is not a bad thing in this case.
Really the new signing in midfield all hinges on the involvement of Tom Cleverley (and Anderson to a lesser degree) if you want Tom to keep developing then you give him games. Now I think he's a good footballer. Good enough to make the midfield his own at United but I don't think he's comfortable in the role that he's been playing. Which is fine when developing a player all players are going to get just as much experience if not more when they are playing out of their comfort zone.
If we're going to persist with Cleverley then bringing in any attack minded midfielders would have been a bit of a hindrance. A 10 or even a Thiago style MC would be in direct competition with Cleverley.
Obviously when Rooney and Kagawa are fit they will be the 10 nailed on. But this deeper and more defensive type signing allowed (for me) the chance for Cleverley to play two different roles. Less of a ball winner in a deeper midfield three and/or as a 10 in a more advanced string pulling position where I personally think his game is more suited. He's a good touch passer and smart mover. Can finish not all that badly so I would not be surprised to see him get minutes in those positions wherever possible.
Depends what Moyes wanted. If he wanted DM's then of course two deeper defensive midfielders would be good. I think you get a bit more versatility with Fellaini than you would with Gustavo which helps.
One of the Bender twins though imo would have been the best signing even better than Fellaini or Gustavo. Sven especially if looking for deeper and Lars if looking for more of an adaptable MC. But of course this isn't FM where you keep clicking the + button until you can negotiate.
Squads are all about balance when we don't just sign a billion players in every position as per the sugar daddy clubs. Something probably a bit underrated in Ferguson's locker. His squad balance managing was very impressive and I think Moyes with his meticulous scouting and good fitness coaching can certainly keep that going.
Totally unproven as a top class centre midfielder. As a midfielder he is decent no doubt but this Mancester United not Everton, an Everton which hasn't beaten any the top 4 teams away from home in donkeys years and won sweet feck all. He is totally unproven as a centre midfielder at the level he will find himself playing at.
That is a bit of an 'all over the shop' statement. Top class center midfields can be all different things. Great defenders, tireless, great passers, great string pullers. He's been used in a variety of positions at Everton so he's never really had the chance.
This is his time to shine now though.
If "he's never eally had the chance" then how can he be proven? He is unproven but so are most signings we make. Time will tell.
How can he be completely unproven since he is actually playing football in those positions at this level? Completely unproven is a stretch. But he has experience and has the potential for sure.
Well you make a good point of Cleverley, one I agree with. That if Carrick is injured we should not remain playing a 4-2-3-1 as Cleverley is far from being Carrick and we would probably do better changing the strategy a bit.
Cleverley-----Kagawa
--------Fellaini------
Would probably be stronger than Kagawa as a left winger in the same strategy. I mean as a worst case scenario of having Carrick injured in a game against a top club.
I think Cleverley and Anderson both had the same hindrance, they had a certain style and the first thing we asked was for them to become 100% different footballers. Cleverley has a lot of quality traits like you say but they aren't suited for the defensive midfield role.
I'm on about champions league level, we would go close in the league with or without Fellaini. Its against the Bayerns, Barcas and Madrids of this where he is "completely" unproven. And its the aforementioned teams that we aspire to be like.
You are using "completely unproven" to say; "he doesn't have as much experience in the position as I would have liked to see".
There is no argument really except your communication. Fellaini is by himself and his manager considered to be best as a DM. Fellaini has a good list of results to show against the top teams when he played as a DM for one season. Moyes brought Fellaini to United having seen him not only in the 11-12 season but in 1000 of hours of training.
Moyes also most certainly spoke to Ferguson about it who gave a green signal as well.
Is he "completely unproven" if you use the definition of those 2 words? Cleary not. Were there players on the market with more experience in the same positions? There were.
That is something you have to communicate to us. We can't just assume that you mean against the top 4-5 teams of the world when you use the phrase "completely unproven".
Are these the type of discussions that go on in the player mega threads?
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