Moyes is the one who brought him in for feck sake.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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At the moment it's difficult to see where he can fit in effectively.
I was positive when we signed him. What I was expecting was some strength and aggression in midfield which we haven't had since the days of Fletcher. That's what's really disappointed me about him so far, I don't think he's imposing himself and putting his weight about enough. Shame because I've seen him do it before. Still hopeful he will be good for us.
In his defence it was obvious before we signed him that he wouldn't compliment Carrick at all. He isn't dynamic, mobile or quick enough on the ball to play the role we want alongside Carrick, particularly when Rooney and RVP are both basically playing as out and out strikers. He could still be quite effective playing a similar deeper role that Carrick plays alongside Cleverley in a two or with Carrick and Cleverly in a three, but Carrick and Fellaini in a 4-4-2 is a bit of a disaster unsurprisingly.
We all talked about what a total calamity it would be if Carrick picked up an injury. He's 32 as well. So from that perspective, signing Fellaini makes the squad a lot stronger. But 27.5M is a lot of money for an understudy because it seems difficult to see where he can fit in alongside Carrick. The only way presumably being part of a midfield 3. In the medium term that gives us more options, especially away from home and in Europe. I think Moyes is really just shaping the squad and figuring things out. I am sure a lot has changed in training and it will be a while before we see real cohesion.
That doesn't make him immune from criticism from Moyes though. Tbh I'd be worried it it did!
Surprises me that some people see Fellaini as an alternative/understudy to Carrick. He's nowhere near good enough for the Carrick role imo and I can't imagine what our midfield would look like with him and someone less disciplined defensively than Carrick. Fellaini's reading of the game and defensive positioning is too poor to play with out someone defensively sound next to him. His passing is also limited and fairly slow as he often seems to need to take a touch rather than pass first time. Him and Carrick aren't ideal at all but I think him and any of our other CM options would be worse.
At the time when we were talking about signing him on here I thought him and Carrick would be a great solid defensive partnership, Fellaini's strength combined with Carrick's reading of the game. So far he's been used completely differently to how I thought he would be, and I think they could potentially grow to be a good pair if given the correct brief.
Whether by his own judgement or Moyes' Fellaini seems to be trying to play a box-to-box (for lack of a better word) role that he simply hasn't got the mobility or the awareness to pull off. He does seem to often get caught too far up the field when we lose the ball, which wouldn't be a problem if he was a bit quicker but he struggles to get back goalside and it leaves us very open on the counter, especially as we have two fullbacks who love getting forward. So far for us he's been expected to contribute going in both directions and he's failed to show his qualities. On top of this he's just simply not played well which is obviously a red rag to a bull for the people who didn't want him here in the first place.
I've seen him play very well for Everton both as a strictly defensive midfielder (he bossed games against City and Chelsea in that role a couple of years back) and in that weird 'target #10' role Moyes invented for him when Everton were struggling for in-form forwards. Obviously it's nice that he can offer the latter, the Plan A of a side that came 6th in the league last season despite their main striker only scoring 7 goals all season is a decent enough Plan B, but I'd like to see what he could offer in a more reserved role in a line with if not deeper than Carrick with a mobile 3 ahead of them alternately dropping deep to provide targets for forward passes between the lines (a part of Fellaini's game that is quite underrated, though obviously he's nowhere near as adept at it as Carrick). I think he'd do well in that system, or as the deepest of a midfield 3 alongside Carrick and a more mobile player like Cleverley.
Whether by his own judgement or Moyes' Fellaini seems to be trying to play a box-to-box (for lack of a better word) role that he simply hasn't got the mobility or the awareness to pull off. He does seem to often get caught too far up the field when we lose the ball, which wouldn't be a problem if he was a bit quicker but he struggles to get back goalside and it leaves us very open on the counter, especially as we have two fullbacks who love getting forward. So far for us he's been expected to contribute going in both directions and he's failed to show his qualities. On top of this he's just simply not played well which is obviously a red rag to a bull for the people who didn't want him here in the first place.
I've seen him play very well for Everton both as a strictly defensive midfielder (he bossed games against City and Chelsea in that role a couple of years back) and in that weird 'target #10' role Moyes invented for him when Everton were struggling for in-form forwards. Obviously it's nice that he can offer the latter, the Plan A of a side that came 6th in the league last season despite their main striker only scoring 7 goals all season is a decent enough Plan B, but I'd like to see what he could offer in a more reserved role in a line with if not deeper than Carrick with a mobile 3 ahead of them alternately dropping deep to provide targets for forward passes between the lines (a part of Fellaini's game that is quite underrated, though obviously he's nowhere near as adept at it as Carrick). I think he'd do well in that system, or as the deepest of a midfield 3 alongside Carrick and a more mobile player like Cleverley.
As the out and out defensive midfielder. Either drop Carrick or push him further forward. Play two more mobile players in front of him in a 4-5-1/4-1-3-1-1.
-----------Fellaini------------
-Winger----Cleverley-----Winger
------------Rooney------------
-------------RVP--------------
------------Fellaini-------
-------Carrick--Cleverley-----
WF-----------------------WF
-----------Striker------------
A more mobile partner than Carrick is a must. Whether that upsets the balance of the team or upsets the fans who think Carrick is an automatic starter at all times it's probably the only thing I can see on paper that will fix it. Scary though, for sure.
I guess, that or play him in behind a front striker. But there are plenty of other players there that can do the job that are higher in the pecking order. Fellaini is still finding his feet for United at this level so lets let him have a full season at the club before trying to fit him in. He hasn't even bedded in yet and didn't have a pre-season with the playing group.
This.
In a 4-4-2 him and Carrick don't offer enough creativity, that much is clear. In a 4-2-3-1 with Kagawa as central attack midfielder however I think it should work. Carrick and Fellaini could be a double pivot with Kagawa providing the creative spark in the middle. Would be interesting to see us try it out.
Fellaini is a ball winner. He is not a pure defensive midfielder. Because of his aggression and pressing he will get found out by nippy small players. His partner has to cover when he presses because you leave gaps when you fail to win the ball. I am sure he will come good. Just watch.
I just hope the plan isn't to push him up top behind RvP if Rooney goes in the summer. I think we should at least try him and Cleverley together.
I think Fellaini will end up playing a defensive role in midfield in the long run. He's still only 25, we can't assume he won't get any better at reading the game. In the longer term he might well take over Carrick. Not necessarily like for like, but he'll have his own defensive qualities. It wasn't too long ago that people were saying Carrick could never replace Keane. Well he didn't, but he brought something different to the table, just as I think Fellaini will.
It's definitely worth noting that Carrick joined us at the same age and has improved a lot since then in all aspects of his game. Whilst some of the additional appreciation he's been getting has been due to people (and especially United fans) recognizing the value of keeping possession since Barcelona's rise, he has also just straight up stepped up his game in the last 3 seasons or so between the ages of 29 and 32. Scholes didn't move back into midfield for us permanently until he was 29 or so and probably had his best season there in 2005-6 when he was 31. Makelele joined Real when he was 26 or so and didn't start playing regularly for France until he was 29 - 30 (his first international tournament as a first team player was Euro 2004 at age 31). Edgar Davids joined Juventus at about the same age as Fellaini joined us and the season before he couldn't get a game for a Milan team that came 11th in Serie A. Fellaini has a lot of time to improve, it's a blessing that some of the reactionary lot on here will never be anywhere near the running of the club.
To clarify, in no way am I saying Fellaini is or ever will be as good as any of those players, I'm just making the point that midfielders tend to continue improving into their early-30s.
To clarify, in no way am I saying Fellaini is or ever will be as good as any of those players, I'm just making the point that midfielders tend to continue improving into their early-30s.
If your not sayin Fellaini has the potential to be as good as those above mentioned... I don't see your point? Isn't that the aim of your whole point? Either way he will be given chances to prove his worth but let's be honest not everything is a fairy tale... He could well not be here long.
And then there was that bloke who joined that team at 23, and was very good. I want that bloke.
Carrick was a far better player when he joined and don't even get me started on Davids who was already considered a top midfielder (Milan had tendency to neglect great talents within their ranks mind, didn't they also let Vieira go around the same time?) and won CL with Ajax.
It's not even that Fellaini isn't recognised as a top talent, it's more that we've all seen him for a while and he's never really looked like one. Hopefully I'm going to be proven wrong on this but I really fear he's inadequate for this club.
Can he at least be big when he plays this weekend? I swear to god he's shrunk to about 5"6 since joining us.
I'm just saying that he's proven himself to be a good player at Everton and that in all likelihood he'll get better. If replicates or improves on the level he was at when played consistently as a DM for Everton a couple of seasons back he'll be a very good player. People are letting their emotions cloud their judgement when it comes to Fellaini. Everyone's already understandably annoyed because of the lack of transfer activity, the frustrating league results and the press harping on about how we're declining and there's a general feeling of uncertainty because a lot of fans (including me) can't remember the club without Fergie. A lot of that anger is getting channeled at Fellaini because he was our one big signing and he's not been playing well, which is understandable but not entirely justified given that he's started a grand total of 4 games for us.
If you're referring to Keane yeah he was already class when he arrived but had his best seasons for us in his late-20s and early 30s (he was 28 in 1999). But yes, I'd love to sign young Keane too, it's a pity he's 42 now.
Yeah I agree about Carrick, but I specifically acknowledged that in the post, same with Davids. I explicitly said that I don't see him as being better than them either now or in the long run. My point was that Fellaini's nowhere near the finished article, and has yet to have a run in the side full-stop, much less one in the position I think he'll eventually end up in. You're well within your rights to feel he's not good enough, on current form I'd certainly agree, but from what I've seen from him in the past when he was played as DM I think there's reason to be optimistic, especially since midfielders, especially defensive ones, tend to go keep improving through their late 20s into their 30s, which was the point I was trying to make. I was comparing development paths rather than quality.
(And yeah Milan signed Vieira aged about 19 or 20 but only really played him in the reserves and he left less than a year later to be a key player at Arsenal, bizarre. I suppose at that point Desailly was being played as a DM so they felt they didn't need Davids or Vieira? Daft either way)
Tbh, I was referring to nobody specific, just the many players who are supposed to be good, and joined teams and just got on with being good.
Similarly with Moyes, it is not certain by any stretch that everyone just becomes good because lots of time passes. There are many, both players and managers, who just get on with being good.
Completely different situation I know but I remember well Pallister's first few months at United where he looked piss poor. Im hoping something similar happens with Fellaini over the next few months when he settles into the club properly.
Id disagree with those saying he's a ball winner. I dont think thats his forte at all.
Id disagree with those saying he's a ball winner. I dont think thats his forte at all.
This isn't a dig as I know he's a better player than he's looked so far, but I haven't a clue what his forte is. It might be winning the ball in the air, but beyond that, in terms of skills we'll actually use regularly, I'm not sure.
That's my mine gripe with him. He doesn't have any outstanding qualities that would impress me which is pretty poor for a £27.5m signing that is supposed to rejuvenate our midfield. I wouldn't mind it if he were lacking in a few areas but made up for it by being excellent in others but this isn't the case here, he's plain average at all of his trade.
He's quite good at holding the ball up in fairness to him... problem is that's not really a skill we'll require of him.
But yeah, I said something similar after the Stoke thing in that I have no clue what his outstanding attributes are... someone mentioend aerial ability - but I've yet to see any evidence of that so far.
The problem is the price-tag, and the fact that he's our only signing. If we had got it for circa £10m (which I admit was never going to happen) I think we'd be happy to wait until he offered us (hopefully) something different... whilst our other signing for £30m + could go round being a world beater immediately.
One may argue that we shouldn't be fielding a player simply because he is good at making himself a nuisance - but that is one quality Fellaini undoubtedly possesses, and one he has hardly shown at all so far. As a backup option I don't think a disruptive player who can also play a bit is the worst thing to have for any side.
He is also a goal threat - something we haven't benefited from thus far. He will be dangerous on set pieces and handy on corners against us. These aren't star qualities, obviously, but they aren't useless traits.
As for the understudy thing - no, he clearly is not suited to be Carrick's understudy. But I doubt Moyes sees him as such. We have to replace Carrick eventually - but Moyes may not be looking to replace him with a Carrick type player. There are other ways of setting up. We could field a different kind of DM, one who is less of a passer/playmaker than Carrick - and rather seek to strengthen the offensive/creative part of our midfield.
He is also a goal threat - something we haven't benefited from thus far. He will be dangerous on set pieces and handy on corners against us. These aren't star qualities, obviously, but they aren't useless traits.
As for the understudy thing - no, he clearly is not suited to be Carrick's understudy. But I doubt Moyes sees him as such. We have to replace Carrick eventually - but Moyes may not be looking to replace him with a Carrick type player. There are other ways of setting up. We could field a different kind of DM, one who is less of a passer/playmaker than Carrick - and rather seek to strengthen the offensive/creative part of our midfield.
All I know is there is no point judging Fellaini now.
Its a big step up to Utd, and although he has not settled yet, it doesn't mean he won't.
Its a big step up to Utd, and although he has not settled yet, it doesn't mean he won't.
Yep, he clearly hasn't been himself in the games he's played so far. He's looked a bit like a rabbit (or microphone) caught in the headlights. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and I really hope he settles and proves a lot of people wrong.
It's possible Moyes thought to himself that he didn't fancy Fellaini but decided that since he couldn't get any world class players he wanted - then it was way too risky going into the new season with just Carrick and Cleverley as our only two central midfielders that were good enough to be in the first team.
The early signs for Fellaini are not good......sometimes you can just see right away that a player won't make it here such as Berbatov, Djemba etc Hopefully Fellaini can prove us all wrong....I was expecting a lot more from him seem as he looked great for Everton in some big games for them.....he will still come in handy even if he never makes it here but hopefully he can put in some huge performances and change a few opinions
The early signs for Fellaini are not good......sometimes you can just see right away that a player won't make it here such as Berbatov, Djemba etc Hopefully Fellaini can prove us all wrong....I was expecting a lot more from him seem as he looked great for Everton in some big games for them.....he will still come in handy even if he never makes it here but hopefully he can put in some huge performances and change a few opinions
I thought he was pretty good in his debut. But it all went downhill after that. Hopefully it's just a confidence issue.
I doubt he didn't fancy him. I believe he always fancied him. If he wanted to just add another body, he could have gotten better for a lot less. Fellaini will be impossible to shift, and if his purchase represented a big chunk of Moyes' available funds, then he'd better improve drastically.
The only comfort at this stage for me is that he surely cannot get any worse. He has looked a incompetant as I've seen any United player for many years so far, and I can't believe he is bad enough to be deserving of that title.
Berbatov had every chance to make it here, but he just couldn't find that extra gear he required.
To say though it was obvious from the start is ludicrous, he was immensely talented.
Its not about not fancying him. Maybe he was just plan B incase we didnt get who we wanted. Makes sense but probably way too expensive if that was the case. Anyways though, I'd rather have him here than not.
I see him as an all round midfielder - he can do everything well but doesnt necessarily excel at anything in particular. This is probably because he has been moved around a lot between attacking and defensive roles over past couple of years, hopefully with a settled position he can start to grow into a particular role.
Indeed - but I don't think it did, represent a big chunk, that is: I find that very unlikely, in fact. Moyes' talk about lacking certain players in the XI, his comments about wanting/needing a couple of midfielders (he has repeated this after the Fellaini purchase as well) - all this makes zero sense if he isn't confident of being backed up financially.
I believe the Glazers are on board with a plan to rejig the team, shipping out certain players, allowing others to leave/retire, etc. If they are not - well, then we are well and truly fecked. And I don't think we are. It would surprise me enormously if what Moyes has said about "world class" players and so forth is not in line with the Glazers' policy. That would be absurd, frankly.
He doesn't look mobile enough to me, it's either that or he's extremely lazy. For a position that he's supposed to excel at or prefer, he's certainly not shown a penchant for central midfield yet.
I'd say he's both lazy and not mobile enough. He's definitely not worth the fee we paid for him, but I still believe he can do a good job for us, despite what most fans on here have said about him. He's definitely more suited to a three-man midfield, but if he's going to play, I hope it's with Cleverley and not Carrick.
In the match against Shakthar in a three man midfield untill 65th minute ( in which he was subbed off ) he covered aprox 9 kilometers. I don't really think that he's 'lazy' as you guys call it.
I hope you are right. Either way though, Fellaini counts as one of what is likely to be a group of four midfielders now that he is here. That means that, if he stays here as is assumed, then in all likelihood, a couple/few other midfielders will have to leave for numbers sake. I can't think who they would be.
At the beginning of the summer, I think most people thought we could carry another two in there, and that is with Anderson leaving. Now, even if he does leave, adding another two to Fellaini will probably leave us over-crowded. And as it stands, the idead of not adding another two because of Fellaini is very annoying. So whether his purchase has exhasted resources in terms of budget, or just squad space, his purchase is still likely to come at an opportunity cost of better and probably more useful midfield players.
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