Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

[marjen]

Was poor today as he'll tend to be against decent sides but not our biggest problem by far.

A midfield two of Carrick and Fellaini against any sort of decent football teams will get torn apart though. Too one-paced, can't run either way.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yea, and as we're proving this season having the best players possible on the pitch is always working, right ? 'On paper' Fellaini wouldn't get into midfields of teams you've mentioned, 'on paper' their strikers ( bar Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez and possibly Aguero ) wouldn't get ahead of Rooney or RVP. Do they fail to score because they've got 'worse' strikers than we do ? Do we score more goals because our strikers are 'better' ? No. It's not about the best players but about players that they do their job, Fellaini does his job for us.

He's good on the ball, he's not agile, no, but he's not a stagnated statue as some make it sound here, nor is he lazy which is implied as well every fecking match. Them having 3 man midfield doesn't make all the difference? Are you for real? You bring up examples of midfields when our attack was working, so no matter if they dominated us in the midfield ( even though they played with just 2 in the midfield as well ), we've outscored, outsmarted and outskilled them. Today, we've got 2 creative attacking midfielders or a CAM and a winger if you will who should create something yet create nothing and two strikers who can't partner each other.

And actually Fellaini makes himself available for the pass quite often, only time when we 'hoof' it to him is when de Gea is starting the play. Even if he's not making himself available for the ball ( which he is ) then there's our 'deep lying midfielder' Carrick and Rooney who's supposed to link attack with midfield as a #10. Which he isn't doing.

So basically you're blaming everyone but Fellaini? How did he do his job for us today? What exactly was his job, for that matter? Sure he put in a few tackles. Didn't think we got so shit that all that was required to start for United these days what put in a few tackles. I should sign up if that's all that's needed.

The biggest problem right now is the manager, everybody can see that. After that, we'll see how Fellaini is. I personally don't think he's good enough to be a key player for us or a starter for us long term, and we should strive to bring in a few players. Can you see Fellaini playing in a team that plays quick, passing football, with lots of movement and give and gos? Or a quick counter attacking team? Because I certainly can't see him fitting in a team like that at all. You're right that its not always the best players in a team to be the best option. It's about finding a system. You saying he's doing his job in this system goes against you sort of since we are awful this season. Today just highlighted whats wrong with Fellaini IMO. He gets the ball and because he isn't agile, he turned around slowly and the liverpool players were already on top of him. Him not being very quick footed or good on the ball made it worse for him and resulted in him losing the ball or playing sloppy passes. Also, he can't run with the ball really, which is pretty important for midfielders these days, and a reason why we've struggled for the past 6-7 years there.

 

[Sultan]

'What is just giving us more of a problem' ? Care to elaborate how he 'gives us a problem' ?.

Positionally inept. He was neither a box to box midfielder or holding his position. He was the main reason why we were so disjointed. Can't track back, and has a turning cycle of a tank.

 

[Lu Tze]

Can you see Fellaini playing in a team that plays quick, passing football, with lots of movement and give and gos?

Apparently he does that more than well enough to be regularly selected for the (talent laden) Belgian national team. All of you folks talking about how he can't run/can't turn/can't dribble are absolutely blinded by agendas. He's done all of that and more on a regular basis for the Belgian national team and Everton, and after one display against Liverpool - in which he was arguably our best outfield player - you are coming out of the woodwork and slating him for, quite literally, made up reasons. Get in the blinking Carrick/RVP/Evra/Rooney/Jones threads for gods sake, they're all more deserving of your ire.

 

[Kostur]

So basically you're blaming everyone but Fellaini? How did he do his job for us today? What exactly was his job, for that matter? Sure he put in a few tackles. Didn't think we got so shit that all that was required to start for United these days what put in a few tackles. I should sign up if that's all that's needed.

The biggest problem right now is the manager, everybody can see that. After that, we'll see how Fellaini is. I personally don't think he's good enough to be a key player for us or a starter for us long term, and we should strive to bring in a few players. Can you see Fellaini playing in a team that plays quick, passing football, with lots of movement and give and gos? Or a quick counter attacking team? Because I certainly can't see him fitting in a team like that at all. You're right that its not always the best players in a team to be the best option. It's about finding a system. You saying he's doing his job in this system goes against you sort of since we are awful this season. Today just highlighted whats wrong with Fellaini IMO. He gets the ball and because he isn't agile, he turned around slowly and the liverpool players were already on top of him. Him not being very quick footed or good on the ball made it worse for him and resulted in him losing the ball or playing sloppy passes. Also, he can't run with the ball really, which is pretty important for midfielders these days, and a reason why we've struggled for the past 6-7 years there.

I can see him working in such system if he turns into CDM and we get either a mobile playmaker alongside him ( somebody who can do magic passes ) or true workforce box to box midfielder. You're asking what he's done today, well, he was a defensive midfielder. If you looked at today's performance of his and, say, performance against WBA there are many aspects that differ. He wasn't going forward so often which is more than understandable taking into consideration Liverpool's attack and the fact, that playing him and Carrick gives our front four less 'tracking back' to worry about. They can play risk passes and use LB / RB to provide width and don't worry that we'll get countered because the midfielders are there.

About seconded bolded, not really, just because our system is not working it doesn't mean that everybody doesn't do his job in this system. Out of many players there are, I think that Fellaini is doing his job rather fine since his comeback. To put it shortly, you'd expect all the fancy passing and creating from Mata, Rooney, Januzaj while fullbacks provide width. The first doesn't work, the latter does. In this case, there's feck all creating up front and the blame goes on Carrick / Fellaini ( while I can partially understand why blame would go on Carrick because he's done fantastic job as a deep lying playmaker last season, Fellaini is just not going to turn into a passer alike to last season's Carrick ).

I'd love to see how many times he's been dispossesed today because we can see how many passes he's failed. ( 36 out of 43 successful ) As I see it, he should pass it to Mata / Januzaj / Rooney ( who didn't bother dropping deep again leaving Carrick and Fellaini against 3 man midfield of Liverpool ) and let them create, if we get a decent playmaker to partner him then the distribution responsibility will be spread even more evenly. He can run with the ball, he's proved that against CP and WBA but for God's sake, he's not going to do that against Liverpool because they're merciless on the counters and neither Januzaj nor Mata did a lot of defensive work today, which is the purpose of this 'system'.

Positionally inept. He was neither a box to box midfielder or holding his position. He was the main reason why we were so disjointed. Can't track back, and has a turning cycle of a tank.

If you see it this way, then we'll have to agree to disagree because for me it was Rooney as our #10 who doesn't make this team tick quite often. ( when he doesn't bother to drop deep that is )

He does track back though.

 

[Sultan]

A n

Apparently he does that more than well enough to be regularly selected for the (talent laden) Belgian national team. All of you folks talking about how he can't run/can't turn/can't dribble are absolutely blinded by agendas. He's done all of that and more on a regular basis for the Belgian national team and Everton, and after one display against Liverpool - in which he was arguably our best outfield player - you are coming out of the woodwork and slating him for, quite literally, made up reasons. Get in the blinking Carrick/RVP/Evra/Rooney/Jones threads for gods sake, they're all more deserving of your ire.

What agenda?

 

[Lu Tze]

A n

What agenda?

The Fellaini-is-incompetent-and-definitely-hasn't-been-one-of-the-most-outstanding-midfielders-in-the-premiership-for-the-last-4-years agenda. And the delusional belief that he can't run, pass, turn, track a man or indeed display any of the qualities necessary to exist as a functional human being, let alone a professional footballer.

 

[Sultan]

If you see it this way, then we'll have to agree to disagree because for me it was Rooney as our #10 who doesn't make this team tick quite often. ( when he doesn't bother to drop deep that is )

He does track back though.

In the formation United played today we need very disciplined holding players. He was generally too far away from Carrick, and ahead of Mata and even Rooney occasionally. Mata the type of player he is should not have to be covering his position.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Apparently he does that more than well enough to be regularly selected for the (talent laden) Belgian national team. All of you folks talking about how he can't run/can't turn/can't dribble are absolutely blinded by agendas. He's done all of that and more on a regular basis for the Belgian national team and Everton, and after one display against Liverpool - in which he was arguably our best outfield player - you are coming out of the woodwork and slating him for, quite literally, made up reasons. Get in the blinking Carrick/RVP/Evra/Rooney/Jones threads for gods sake, they're all more deserving of your ire.

Who does he play ahead of for Belgium?

 

[Sultan]

The Fellaini-is-incompetent-and-definitely-hasn't-been-one-of-the-most-outstanding-midfielders-in-the-premiership-for-the-last-4-years agenda. And the delusional belief that he can't run, pass, turn, track a man or indeed display any of the qualities necessary to exist as a functional human being, let alone a professional footballer.

He's a United player, and if he plays well I'll be the first to praise him. I don't really care what he did in the past or does for Belgium. I judge on his United performances.

 

[Lu Tze]

In the formation United played today we need very disciplined holding players. He was generally too far away from Carrick, and ahead of Mata and even Rooney occasionally. Mata the type of player he is should not have to be covering his position.

Do you genuinely believe that he was not pushing forward on managerial instructions? It was clear as day that he had been instructed to push up into that right channel and create attempt to overloads with Mata/Rafael and himself.

 

[Orton]

Every time Liverpool picked the ball up in our half they had free runs at our defence. Fellaini pushing too far up was partly the reason for that. Only reason he should be up there is if we plan to have 2 sitting and use him as a target man off the striker. He can't dribble, is poor in tight spaces and his passing isn't good enough.

 

[bosnian_red]

I can see him working in such system if he turns into CDM and we get either a mobile playmaker alongside him ( somebody who can do magic passes ) or true workforce box to box midfielder. You're asking what he's done today, well, he was a defensive midfielder. If you looked at today's performance of his and, say, performance against WBA there are many aspects that differ. He wasn't going forward so often which is more than understandable taking into consideration Liverpool's attack and the fact, that playing him and Carrick gives our front four less 'tracking back' to worry about. They can play risk passes and use LB / RB to provide width and don't worry that we'll get countered because the midfielders are there.

About seconded bolded, not really, just because our system is not working it doesn't mean that everybody doesn't do his job in this system. Out of many players there are, I think that Fellaini is doing his job rather fine since his comeback. To put it shortly, you'd expect all the fancy passing and creating from Mata, Rooney, Januzaj while fullbacks provide width. The first doesn't work, the latter does. In this case, there's feck all creating up front and the blame goes on Carrick / Fellaini ( while I can partially understand why blame would go on Carrick because he's done fantastic job as a deep lying playmaker last season, Fellaini is just not going to turn into a passer alike to last season's Carrick ).

I'd love to see how many times he's been dispossesed today because we can see how many passes he's failed. ( 36 out of 43 successful ) As I see it, he should pass it to Mata / Januzaj / Rooney ( who didn't bother dropping deep again leaving Carrick and Fellaini against 3 man midfield of Liverpool ) and let them create, if we get a decent playmaker to partner him then the distribution responsibility will be spread even more evenly. He can run with the ball, he's proved that against CP and WBA but for God's sake, he's not going to do that against Liverpool because they're merciless on the counters and neither Januzaj nor Mata did a lot of defensive work today, which is the purpose of this 'system'.

He might become a decent defensive midfielder of a midfield 3, but who would be the midfielders next to him? I just feel like we could do better with somebody else there. For example, if we get Vidal in (no chance, just use his type of player as an example), I feel like we'd be better off with a player of the ilk of Miralem Pjanic, or Kroos, rather then a defensive midfielder like Fellaini. Or if we get Gundogan next to Fellaini, would we be better off with someone like Fellaini next to him, or a true box to box player who is good all around? Gundogan next to Fellaini is a fairly realistic midfield, with Mata in front forming a trio, but I think the weak point would still be Fellaini, and so we'd still look to improve it, but it wouldn't be as vital as right now.

He should in no way be the box to box player though or the more advanced midfielder, but that's what Moyes seems to use him as. Anyways, its a matter of personal opinions on whether he's good enough long term. I'm not sure if he's quick footed enough to be an important player for us, and unfortunately for him, that's what you expect when you pay 30m. There's a big difference between somebody like Matic and him, and I get the feeling most on here want us to use him like Matic is used, as a defensive midfielder. That'd probably be the best option, next to Kroos/Pjanic/Koke/Gundogan/Rakitic or whoever else. It'd still be a position we should look to improve on though.

 

[Kostur]

In the formation United played today we need very disciplined holding players. He was generally too far away from Carrick, and ahead of Mata and even Rooney occasionally. Mata the type of player he is should not have to be covering his position.

Actually I'd say that he was too close to Carrick, quite often they overlapped each other's position, with the difference that Fellaini often was occupying the position behind Carrick ( shielding the back four ) and Carrick was more in the very middle of the pitch. No idea why you suggest that he was ahead of Mata or Rooney ( maybe when we were about to cross it and he made a run into a box ? )

Mata was started as a in-field winger, so yes, when he's going forward and he's joined by Rafael ( which was quite often ) Fellaini or Carrick have to cover their position.

@bosnian_red

Of course he'd be the worst of the midfield trio of Gündogan, Mata, Fellaini or Fellaini, Mata, Vidal but as it stands, Vidal is probably the best midfielder in the world He would be 'the worst' one out of those three, true, but he'd offer something that those two wouldn't ( or the other, if we're talking about midfield duo ) and that's where I think the team first and foremost would benefit the most. As it stands, quite often we're talking adjusting the team in this or that way so it suits a certain player whereas we should be doing something completly different. We should focus on what would be the biggest profit for the team.

 

[Lu Tze]

Who does he play ahead of for Belgium?

They play a midfield 3, and he regularly gets into it as a starter ahead of Dembele and Nainggolan among others. He's one of their favoured starters and doesn't look out of place.

 

[Sultan]

Do you genuinely believe that he was not pushing forward on managerial instructions? It was clear as day that he had been instructed to push up into that right channel and create attempt to overloads with Mata/Rafael and himself.

I refuse to believe our coaches would be that naive, and leave Carrick to be outnumbered.

 

[bosnian_red]

Actually I'd say that he was too close to Carrick, quite often they overlapped each other's position, with the difference that Fellaini often was occupying the position behind Carrick ( shielding the back four ) and Carrick was more in the very middle of the pitch. No idea why you suggest that he was ahead of Mata or Rooney ( maybe when we were about to cross it and he made a run into a box ? )

Mata was started as a in-field winger, so yes, when he's going forward and he's joined by Rafael ( which was quite often ) Fellaini or Carrick have to cover their position.

Fellaini has been used as a box to box midfielder so far, Carrick has definitely been the more defensive one of the two.

 

[Sultan]

Actually I'd say that he was too close to Carrick, quite often they overlapped each other's position, with the difference that Fellaini often was occupying the position behind Carrick ( shielding the back four ) and Carrick was more in the very middle of the pitch. No idea why you suggest that he was ahead of Mata or Rooney ( maybe when we were about to cross it and he made a run into a box ? )

Mata was started as a in-field winger, so yes, when he's going forward and he's joined by Rafael ( which was quite often ) Fellaini or Carrick have to cover their position.

Fair enough. We must have watched different games.

 

[Sultan]

Fellaini has been used as a box to box midfielder so far, Carrick has definitely been the more defensive one of the two.

Do we really need a box to box midfielder with the formation played today?

 

[Kostur]

Fair enough. We must have watched different games.

No need for that. Definitely with different attitudes towards Fellaini.

Fellaini has been used as a box to box midfielder so far, Carrick has definitely been the more defensive one of the two.

Today it was pretty much two CDMs with occasional runs from Fellaini, not the same pair of shoes as against WBA or CP where I agree he was the b-2-b midfielder.

 

[bosnian_red]

Do we really need a box to box midfielder with the formation played today?

First of all, we shouldn't be playing anywhere close to the way we are playing under Moyes. Ideally, if we are playing a 2 man midfield, then yeah I'd say we'd need box to box midfielders, but not Fellaini. We need them to be quality all around and very energetic and intelligent. We don't have any of those at the club though. If we're going for a 4-2-3-1, then we need to play a more defensive midfielder next to a more creative, all around midfielder, behind somebody like mata or Kagawa.
If you want my honest opinion, I think our complete set of midfielders are just completely wrong and its been like that for a while. Even when Carrick was so great these last few years, he was part of the problem.

 

[Chorley1974]

The player is being judged on his price tag alone in this case, and what the PERCEIVED alternatives for that price tag where.

 

[Sultan]

No need for that. Definitely with different attitudes towards Fellaini.

Not being rude mate. Apologies if it came across that way.

It's an English (UK) way of saying although watching the same game we both see the game from a different perspective. It's like two managers watching the same game will have completely opposing views on the state of the game.

 

[Kostur]

Not being rude mate. Apologies if it came across that way.

It's an English (UK) way of saying although watching the same game we both see the game from a different perspective. It's like two managers watching the same game will have completely opposing views on the state of the game.

Ah jeez, pardon my ignorance there, wasn't aware.

Been a tough day for all of us I guess, no offence taken of course.

 

[noodlehair]

He was alright today. Don't see the problem to be honest. All of our issues off the ball were being caused by Mata going wandering and being a coward, and Carrick leaving his back four exposed (there was one moment in the second half where Carrick was caught on the replay deliberately RUNNING AWAY from Gerrard when Gerrard had the ball...it nearly resulted in a goal).

He wasn't very good on the ball, but then he was no worse than say, nearly every single other United player, so it seems dumb to criticise him for that. We once again set up with a syem that made it impossible to play, then didn't change it. It was impossible to make work. All you had were players who went hiding and players who didn't, and it's actually quite annoying seeing one of the ones who didn't being given loads of shite.

If it's about the price tag, Mata cost more and managed to near enough be Liverpool's best player.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Positionally inept. He was neither a box to box midfielder or holding his position. He was the main reason why we were so disjointed. Can't track back, and has a turning cycle of a tank.

Yep, he's poison to playing good football. It's basically impossible with him in the team.

 

[Sultan]

Yep, he's poison to playing good football. It's basically impossible with him in the team.

Not sure if you're serious

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Not sure if you're serious

Totally serious. Fellaini is a terrible footballer whose style will always be to the detriment of the team.

 

[Theon]

Apparently he does that more than well enough to be regularly selected for the (talent laden) Belgian national team. All of you folks talking about how he can't run/can't turn/can't dribble are absolutely blinded by agendas. He's done all of that and more on a regular basis for the Belgian national team and Everton, and after one display against Liverpool - in which he was arguably our best outfield player - you are coming out of the woodwork and slating him for, quite literally, made up reasons. Get in the blinking Carrick/RVP/Evra/Rooney/Jones threads for gods sake, they're all more deserving of your ire.

Aye, absolutely spot on.

Fellaini is being made into a real scapegoat today, to blame him for the performance is laughable really. There were much worse performers out there.

 

[noodlehair]

I refuse to believe our coaches would be that naive, and leave Carrick to be outnumbered.

I would agree, but if they weren't naive enough to do that, they wouldn't have been naive enough to not change it for 70 minutes. It would have been sorted as soon as it started happening.

You also wouldn't believe they'd be naive enough to play two holding midfielders and then have both forwards playing right up top, but guess what?

And Mata didn't have any defensive responsibility that any other player wouldn't have had in his position just the same. I don't understand why he apparently qualifies for some special exemption. His performance was completely unacceptable.

Basically, this happened again:

 

[Sultan]

Yep, he's poison to playing good football. It's basically impossible with him in the team.

I've said it before, he's ideally suited to Stoke, and West Ham.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I've said it before, he's ideally suited to Stoke, and West Ham.

Yep, he's a useless donkey.

 

[mufcwarm92]

Those scapegoating him should have a word. Far from being our worst player today.

 

[golden_blunder]

Said it before he signed, he's not a united player. When he signed I thought I'll give him benefit of th doubt but he's shite. Too slow, doesn't impose himself on the game enough. Bring back gibbo ffs

 

[Sultan]

I would agree, but if they weren't naive enough to do that, they wouldn't have been naive enough to not change it for 70 minutes. It would have been sorted as soon as it started happening.

You also wouldn't believe they'd be naive enough to play two holding midfielders and then have both forwards playing right up top, but guess what?

And Mata didn't have any defensive responsibility that any other player wouldn't have had in his position just the same. I don't understand why he apparently qualifies for some special exemption. His performance was completely unacceptable.

Basically, this happened again:

I've been saying all week RvP should have been dropped. Welbeck should have started in his place, and asked to do a job on Gerrard. It was so obvious it wasn't working I'd have changed it after 30 minutes. It was only through luck we weren't already a few goals down. I was even more shocked he sent out the same team after the break.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Those scapegoating him should have a word. Far from being our worst player today.

He wasn't the worst player individually but the way he plays negatively affects our performance so much more than anyone else.

 

[noodlehair]

I've been saying all week RvP should have been dropped. Welbeck should have started in his place, and asked to do a job on Gerrard. It was so obvious it wasn't working I'd have changed it after 30 minutes. It was only through luck we weren't already a few goals down. I was even more shocked he sent out the same team after the break.

He changed nothing for 70 minutes then made changes that addressed none of the problems.

It's a recurring theme. Even Neville resorted to calling it naive, so for me the "the coaches wouldn't have been that naive" theory isn't plausable anymore. It's gone beyond naivity to gross incompetence.

 

[Kostur]

He wasn't the worst player individually but the way he plays negatively affects our performance so much more than anyone else.

I suppose that he somehow made Rooney, RVP, Januzaj and Mata inept on the ball, right ?

 

[Theon]

He wasn't the worst player individually but the way he plays negatively affects our performance so much more than anyone else.

You're being extremely harsh.

Mata, Januzaj, Rooney and Van Persie couldn't string two passes together all game. That isn't Fellaini's fault. His role was to press Liverpool, win possession, then pass it to the more creative players. He did that pretty well.

 

[Lu Tze]

You're being extremely harsh.

Mata, Januzaj, Rooney and Van Persie couldn't string two passes together all game. That isn't Fellaini's fault. His role was to press Liverpool, win possession, then pass it to the more creative players. He did that pretty well.

No, no, no!!!!!!!

He's supposed to be positionally disciplined and not make forward runs.

And beat men on the dribble regularly through central midfield.

He's supposed to close off passing lanes.

And press men and make tackles.

He's supposed to keep it simple and give the creative load to our playmakers.

And play killer balls regularly.

He's supposed to be our defensive anchor.

And score goals regularly.

He is supposed to play CB, DM, CM, AM and ST at the same time, don't you understand!