Mass shooting at Gay night club in Orlando

Eyepopper said:
BTW, if you are afraid of intruders, maybe take the budget you plan on spending on your arsenal and invest in a good security system instead.

Statistically speaking the most effective means of avoiding crime in your home is to employ a visible deterrent.
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I do have a good security system from ADT. Have the sign and everything.

Once again, I sincerely hope that my wife and I will never have to use one of our firearms for its intended purpose.
 
I've always felt most comfortable in gay bars, surrounded by people in the same boat as me, who have experienced similar peaks and troughs in their lives as me, so to imagine having that all snuffed out in an instant sends chills down my spine.
 
langster said:
The simple facts are this happened in the UK and Australia and they both banned guns. Neither country has seen it happen since then. Coincidence? I think not. I appreciate the USA and their situation is very different, and the 2nd amendment and the constant misinterpretation of it doesn't help, nor do the NRA who in my mind are a criminal organisation that prey on peoples fears. But, the plain fact is that there is no need to own a fecking assault rifle or many of the military grade weapons you can buy in the United States, and not only buy them, but in supermarkets like Wal-Mart in plain view for all to see.

Polls show that the vast majority of American citizens want a change to the laws, and in time, with proper education, proper regulation, and gun amnesty, I have no doubt that this problem could be solved. However that is never going to happen all the time guns are glamorised by so many people and you even have morons like (at the time, Presidential Candidate) Ted Cruz saying he went out on Christmas Eve to buy a gun so if ISIS came to town he could defend his family. He's also the same moron who cooked bacon on his assault rifles barrel. Couple all that with extremely poor mental health treatment and a huge drug trade and you have a recipe for disaster, and in truth America at times, looks and behaves more like somewhere in the Middle East.

Everyone needs to get on the same page, and until the money comes out of politics that is never going to happen. The will is there with the people, unfortunately money talks, and too many people are getting paid to promote and keep gun laws as they are, when that stops, then and only then can you start to make a change.
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Guns aren't banned in the UK, certain types are... And you can as quickly feck up quite a few people's day with a shotgun as you can an assault rifle. Almost anyone in the UK can have a shotgun with relatively little effort, you don't even have to have a reason.

Broadly though you're absolutely right, however the solution is 100% much much stricter controls on who can have a gun and how they go about getting it.
 
Duafc said:
'wanton disregard' culture worryingly prevelant amongst a portion in the US. We have very strict regulations and in general I think a much, much healthier fear and respect for firearms.
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This is one of the most troubling things in American society, in my opinion. It baffles the mind how stupidly careless people are with their lives here. It may be the same elsewhere, but I don't live there, so I can't comment on that... but here... my God. People are stupid.
 
Duafc said:
Guns aren't banned in the UK, certain types are... And you can as quickly feck up quite a few people's day with a shotgun as you can an assault rifle. Almost anyone in the UK can have a shotgun with relatively little effort, you don't even have to have a reason.

Broadly though you're absolutely right, however the solution is 100% much much stricter controls on who can have a gun and how they go about getting it.
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Well said.
 
It's sad looking through this thread seeing that there is almost no mention of the fifty innocent people who have been killed for no reason whatsoever, and probably 16 pages worth of gun control arguments (that we've seen X times before). Maybe it is a sign of how desensitised we are to these things, christ though it is unimaginable what would drive a person to do such a thing, how much hate there was in his mind and what it would have been like to witness.
 
Carolina Red said:
This is one of the most troubling things in American society, in my opinion. It baffles the mind how stupidly careless people are with their lives here. It may be the same elsewhere, but I don't live there, so I can't comment on that... but here... my God. People are stupid.
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Probably not a very good idea to allow them to own semi auto, high capacity weapons, and things like flame throwers and stuff then, certainly not if the best reason they can give is because they need them to protect themselves from.... something.
 
Carolina Red said:
In that case, I apologize for my comment.

Leaving a gun in the backseat with a child is definitely averse to everything I was ever taught about gun safety.
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Yeah, exactly, and she is a gun rights activist. She said things along the line of "my 4 year old is jacked up to fire his .22" and "my right to protect my child trumps your fear of my gun" She is exceptionally racist, and obviously not very smart.

Duafc said:
Guns aren't banned in the UK, certain types are...
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Yeah, sorry, I over generalised there, but glad my point wasn't lost.
 
Carolina Red said:
This is one of the most troubling things in American society, in my opinion. It baffles the mind how stupidly careless people are with their lives here. It may be the same elsewhere, but I don't live there, so I can't comment on that... but here... my God. People are stupid.
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It's become almost cult. Rampages not dissimilar to something out of GTA are almost a common occurrence.

How anyone could look at these in isolation, never mind altogether and not arrive at the conclusion that America has a huge issue with guns is beyond me. Although the issue of course stems from the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms it isn't just that simple. It's the availability and general attitude of people who have lived around guns and massacres their whole lives and become desensitised to the lunacy around them.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
It's sad looking through this thread seeing that there is almost no mention of the fifty innocent people who have been killed for no reason whatsoever, and probably 16 pages worth of gun control arguments (that we've seen X times before). Maybe it is a sign of how desensitised we are to these things, christ though it is unimaginable what would drive a person to do such a thing, how much hate there was in his mind and what it would have been like to witness.
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This is quite true, and I do apologize for my role in it. My comment did come from the disgust at Piers Morgan immediately harping on guns instead of focusing on what caused the man to do what he did and what the aftermath was.
 
Carolina Red said:
I think it is obvious that I'm speaking from a law abiding gun owners point of view here.

Maybe I should say, if you don't want to get shot by a law abiding citizen in self defense, do not... etc.
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Even then, I'd wager that most people shot in those circumstances weren't doing either of the things you mention.
 
It's interesting that we - redcafe - has gone from refusing to talk anything but the incident in these threads, out of respect, we've all just given up on that.

It's so common now.
 
Grinner said:
Right and that saying you are law-abiding is meaningless. All criminals are until they aren't.
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Allow me to state for you that when I refer to "law abiding citizen" in reference to a gun debate, that I am referring to lawful and unlawful actions using a gun.
 
Hammerfell said:
I've always felt most comfortable in gay bars, surrounded by people in the same boat as me, who have experienced similar peaks and troughs in their lives as me, so to imagine having that all snuffed out in an instant sends chills down my spine.
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My sympathy. Crazy world we live in. Nobody is safe.
 
Duafc said:
Guns aren't banned in the UK, certain types are... And you can as quickly feck up quite a few people's day with a shotgun as you can an assault rifle. Almost anyone in the UK can have a shotgun with relatively little effort, you don't even have to have a reason.

Broadly though you're absolutely right, however the solution is 100% much much stricter controls on who can have a gun and how they go about getting it.
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And we're fortunate enough that despite that we don't have gun rampages with any regularity. The second anyone kills anyone with a legally owned firearm, let alone kills multiple people for no reason, we have the debate on whether they should be legal and if we had anywhere neat the problem the US does with the firearms you can get legally they'd be banned within days.
 
Just think about the number of people who will be affected by this. Aside from the (so far) 50 victims, you've also got all of their friends and families. That's hundreds/thousands of people who are needlessly grieving right now. Parents, siblings, best friends...

I'm finding the world a more depressing place to be each and every day. It's so sad.
 
Carolina Red said:
Allow me to state for you that when I refer to "law abiding citizen" in reference to a gun debate, that I am referring to lawful and unlawful actions using a gun.
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So a murderer can be law-abiding if he uses a knife but not his legally-owned pistol?
 
A preacher that was invited to a Orlando mosque a couple of months back

 
Sweet Square said:
A preacher that was invited to a Orlando mosque a couple of months back

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This. We are all busy discussing the tools of the massacre, while the vile ideology that lies behind it is hardly touched upon since it is such a elephant in the room.
 
Duafc said:
It's become almost cult. Rampages not dissimilar to something out of GTA are almost a common occurrence.

How anyone could look at these in isolation, never mind altogether and not arrive at the conclusion that America has a huge issue with guns is beyond me. Although the issue of course stems from the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms it isn't just that simple. It's the availability and general attitude of people who have lived around guns and massacres their whole lives and become desensitised to the lunacy around them.
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Yes it has. I teach high schoolers and the decisions that these kids make shocks the daylights out of me sometimes.

One kid I taught this year got in trouble for driving around and bashing people's mailboxes and vandalizing their homes. I told him one day that he needs to grow up and quit doing these things, that he is going to end up getting himself hurt or killed. His response? "Well, gotta die somehow".

This kid's mom is an ER nurse at the same hospital my wife works at. Should something happen to him at night while he's being an idiot, the likelihood is that his own mother will be one of the first people to see his body come into the emergency room, and that was his attitude toward the situation.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
It's sad looking through this thread seeing that there is almost no mention of the fifty innocent people who have been killed for no reason whatsoever, and probably 16 pages worth of gun control arguments (that we've seen X times before). Maybe it is a sign of how desensitised we are to these things, christ though it is unimaginable what would drive a person to do such a thing, how much hate there was in his mind and what it would have been like to witness.
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My little sister lives in the US, Boston. She hadn't even heard about. When I told her, he responds was just to say which one? And hiss. That's all. Even Americans can't be bothered to grieve over such things anymore. How many times a year will someone grieve?
 
SwansonsTache said:
This. We are all busy discussing the tools of the massacre, while the vile ideology that lies behind it is hardly touched upon since it is such a elephant in the room.
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What I don't understand is how someone can be allowed to say such a thing. Feck free speech.
 
Carolina Red said:
One kid I taught this year got in trouble for driving around and bashing people's mailboxes and vandalizing their homes. I told him one day that he needs to grow up and quit doing these things, that he is going to end up getting himself hurt or killed. His response? "Well, gotta die somehow".
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Do you not find it kind of crazy that doing things like that can get you killed in the first place?
 
Adisa said:
What I don't understand is how someone can be allowed to say such a thing. Feck free speech.
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What disturbs me is the support such statements receive. Islam.net which is a student union for muslim students in Norway regularly have speakers over from Belgium from Sharia4Belgium and English speakers from your Sharia organisations in the UK. When they speak here thousands of muslim students attend their speeches.

These speakers are caught on tape advocating killing gays, infidels, beating your wife and disobeying Norwegian law, yet nothing are done. Since that can be perceived as persucation and racism.

Yet, if one Cardinal at a Catholic church in Norway as much as dreams about uttering something about gay rights, or abortions, the media literally goes frantic.

"Never offensive, always offended" was something very describing a Norwegian politician said.
 
SwansonsTache said:
This. We are all busy discussing the tools of the massacre, while the vile ideology that lies behind it is hardly touched upon since it is such a elephant in the room.
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No, that has been discussed here as well. Admittedly, not as much. However, personally, I don't find what was said in that video any different to what Kevin Swanson says, or the idiot who blamed Hurricane Sandy on America allowing abortion and gay marriage, or Fred Phelps before he died and his nutty Westboro Baptist lunatics.
 
SwansonsTache said:
This. We are all busy discussing the tools of the massacre, while the vile ideology that lies behind it is hardly touched upon since it is such a elephant in the room.
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Religious extremism is the underlying problem, but, you know, the gun helps don't you think?
 
Snowjoe said:
Do you not find it kind of crazy that doing things like that can get you killed in the first place?
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When I was in school a kid went about bashing mailboxes and hit one that didn't give. The bat bounced back and crushed his skull. That was indeed a crazy incident.
 
SaintTresano said:
Religious extremism is the underlying problem, but, you know, the gun helps don't you think?
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Absolutely, and I have said repeatedly that someone can basically have a hissy fit on Saturday, and get a AR-15 to act out with on Tuesday is wrong on so many levels.
 
Hammerfell said:
I've always felt most comfortable in gay bars, surrounded by people in the same boat as me, who have experienced similar peaks and troughs in their lives as me, so to imagine having that all snuffed out in an instant sends chills down my spine.
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Really? I like the way that if you hit on women you can catch them off guard. Gay guys can be a bit full on, staring and overly forward though.
 
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