Mass shooting at Gay night club in Orlando

Not only that, but incidents where they actually thought a reasonable response would be to shoot someone in retaliation.

Yes, that's the bit that gets me. The idea that in a civilized society we can allow people to be judge, jury and executioner all at once.
 
I must admit that even though I think it is just wrong that you can decide to buy a AR-15, a UZI or a MAC-10 on Saturday, and basically have it in your hand by Tuesday, I would own the shit out of those guns if I lived in the US.

Because shooting stuff at the range is fun, just admit it.
Same boat. :lol:
I have to make do with video games.
Why do the Yanks get all the fun?:(
 
I must admit that even though I think it is just wrong that you can decide to buy a AR-15, a UZI or a MAC-10 on Saturday, and basically have it in your hand by Tuesday, I would own the shit out of those guns if I lived in the US.

Because shooting stuff at the range is fun, just admit it.

If you think that's fun, try calling in an airstike from a Dutch F-16. Or an Apache gunship. Holy shit, the ground itself rumbled.
 
Yes, that's the bit that gets me. The idea that in a civilized society we can allow people to be judge, jury and executioner all at once.

I'd wager that if Mr.Meth was standing in my living room off his rocker at 3 am on a Saturday night wielding a gun I wouldn't wait for the law.
 
Agree, why have a fire alarm in your house? Fires happen so seldom.
Aye, fire alarms are obviously statistically more likely to start a life-threatening fire than detect them. Plus, you know, the risk that the batteries will fall out and embed themselves in the brains of the homeowners at 800 feet/second.
 
I'd wager that if Mr.Meth was standing in my living room off his rocker at 3 am on a Saturday night wielding a gun I wouldn't wait for the law.

I'd stop being a shambolic host and get the poor fella a chair.
 
Yes, that's the bit that gets me. The idea that in a civilized society we can allow people to be judge, jury and executioner all at once.
I suppose I should just let the intruder do as he likes then? No thanks. If you do not want to risk getting shot, don't break into someone's house. Don't mug somebody. It's quite simple.
 
Aye, fire alarms are obviously statistically more likely to start a life-threatening fire than detect them. Plus, you know, the risk that the batteries will fall out and embed themselves in the brains of the homeowners at 800 feet/second.
:lol:
 
If you think that's fun, try calling in an airstike from a Dutch F-16. Or an Apache gunship. Holy shit, the ground itself rumbled.

Have you been in a position to do that? If so, how many times did you get reprimanded for calling in random airstrikes? I sure know I would.
 
Which would not have occurred if they could not get their hands on fire-arms. We agree.

However, in highlighting the one or two incidents where criminals have been able to get their hands on guns, I'm not sure you're perceptive enough to realise you have defeated your own argument. Which of the two has the higher frequency of mass shootings, the US or Europe? And if the answer is Europe, which it is, then you agree that Europe's stricter gun control laws make it harder for people to carry out mass shootings and, as a result, gun control leads to less deaths.

America has always been a violent society. Its the serial killer capital of the world, and that has nothing to do with guns.

Part of this easy recourse to violence may be down to the cultural legacy of a 'frontier society', but, imo, the nature of Americans themselves probably plays a part. All Americans came from somewhere else. They're descendants of people who uprooted themselves from the known and took a dangerous leap into the unknown. It's likely they differed in character and experience from those who stayed at home. They brought those genes to the New World.

In character inventories Americans score significantly higher on 'extroversion' than Europeans. Extroverted people are less inhibited, cheat more often, divorce more often, change jobs more often, crash their cars more often ... and, if their extroversion is tinged with psychopathology, kill more often.

Australia, another immigrant society, also has high crime and violence statistics.
 
I suppose I should just let the intruder do as he likes then? No thanks. If you do not want to risk getting shot, don't break into someone's house. Don't mug somebody. It's quite simple.

Most people who get shot weren't doing either of those things.
 
I believe that accident happened at a range in which the gun range owned the weapons.
I think that misses the point somewhat. A civilian can still buy an Uzi in the US.
 
I suppose I should just let the intruder do as he likes then? No thanks. If you do not want to risk getting shot, don't break into someone's house. Don't mug somebody. It's quite simple.

Most gun owners don't know the laws about this stuff so unlawful killings happen regularly.
 
Have you been in a position to do that? If so, how many times did you get reprimanded for calling in random airstrikes? I sure know I would.

I've played with lots of big boom stuff. Lighting up wrecked skodas with a GPMG was mental. Tracer fire at night is romantic too.
 
I believe that accident happened at a range in which the gun range owned the weapons.

Last year about 250 people were shot by their children in the US. That itself shows that giving average citizens the responsibility of a gun is a terrible idea.

Also the whole mental health argument is complete bullshit stemming from an innate ignorance about mental health. Someone posted the John Oliver video which talks about mental health. Yes it is severely underfunded, but you don't see people with severe mental health problems in the UK going around killing tens of people. FWIW, our mental health provision isn't all that great here either from my experience speaking to service users over the summer.
 
What amazes me isn't that people can legally purchase and own firearms in the US, it is the level of hardware and the ease of getting it that is quite disturbing.

There should atleast be a 2 month wait or something, allowing the buyer to cool down any rash thoughts he might have. Also extensive background checks, mental health, criminal record etc.

One should also be required to take some course on safe use and keeping.

That you can get a thing like a UZI or AR-15 after three days is simply astonishing.
 
Pretty tasteless comment right there. I wouldn't say that about an anti-gun activist getting killed by a gun weilding criminal.

It was her comments after that were more tasteless. Also what about the poor child? He will have to grow up knowing he shot his mum because she left her gun lying around in the back of her car. And she has the nerve to lecture people about gun rights? She tweeted some pretty awful comments from her hospital bed too. Sorry for the lack of sympathy where she is concerned, but for the child, I have endless amounts.
 
Interesting live news coverage online at ABC News. A neighbour of the gunman told the reporter that he and his family and friends rented 3 units in the complex where they live. They also said that of the three units was occupied by some gay guys and they saw the gunman going to visit their apartment on numerous occasions.

Also, there is now a report that just before the shooting, the gunman called 911 and told the operator he was pledging allegiance to the leader of ISIS.

If anyone's interested, President Obama is due to address the nation very soon.

http://abcnews.go.com/live?stream=1
 
Most people who get shot weren't doing either of those things.
I think it is obvious that I'm speaking from a law abiding gun owners point of view here.

Maybe I should say, if you don't want to get shot by a law abiding citizen in self defense, do not... etc.
 
I've played with lots of big boom stuff. Lighting up wrecked skodas with a GPMG was mental. Tracer fire at night is romantic too.

Have you been in the millitary or do you currently live somewhere in Appalachia and are wanted by the US government?
 
Do you have children? Where do you keep your gun? Do you ever worry about someone else - albeit a child, friend, relative, - getting hold of the gun?

I dont understand how it's in anyway sensible to keep a gun.

Is your gun kept in a safe? If so, how are you ever going to get to it if you need it.

If it's not in a safe, then you can't guarantee that at some point, someone else is going to have access to it. Can you?

All good questions. I don't have kids yet, I do have a safe. Sometimes it's kept in it sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it is a concern I won't lie, you just have to be very careful. It's a lot of responsibility, more so than your kitchen knives, your car or your medicine cabinet but it's the same principle.

Education, maturity and a lot of care.

Hundreds of thousands of people in the UK keep guns, for sport or agricultural reasons, all those who keep guns for farming or rural purpose also do so with an element of security, they'd be lying if they said otherwise. However the instances of inappropriate or irresponsible gun use by friends, children, relatives or themselves are pretty low. As a society we don't seem share the more 'wanton disregard' culture worryingly prevelant amongst a portion in the US. We have very strict regulations and in general I think a much, much healthier fear and respect for firearms.
 
Most gun owners don't know the laws about this stuff so unlawful killings happen regularly.
Wasn't there a case of a guy killing a suspicious looking unarmed black man running away from his house? Was quite a huge story. The case set a precedent cause the man was acquitted. Think the law became "stand your ground" or something like that?
 
Have terrorists ever specifically targeted gay people before?
Not sure. I remember that nutter years ago who blew up the Admiral Duncan pub in Soho to kill gays and also wanted to start a race war with blacks. More lone wolfs than terrorist organisations per se.
 
Wasn't there a case of a guy killing a suspicious looking unarmed black man running away from his house? Was quite a huge story. The case set a precedent cause the man was acquitted. Think the law became "stand your ground" or something like that?

Oh my! Don't go down that road, that's a whole different can of worms right there.
 
It was her comments after that were more tasteless. Also what about the poor child? He will have to grow up knowing he shot his mum because she left her gun lying around in the back of her car. And she has the nerve to lecture people about gun rights? She tweeted some pretty awful comments from her hospital bed too. Sorry for the lack of sympathy where she is concerned, but for the child, I have endless amounts.
In that case, I apologize for my comment.

Leaving a gun in the backseat with a child is definitely averse to everything I was ever taught about gun safety.
 
BTW, if you are afraid of intruders, maybe take the budget you plan on spending on your arsenal and invest in a good security system instead.

Statistically speaking the most effective means of avoiding crime in your home is to employ a visible deterrent.
 
America has always been a violent society. Its the serial killer capital of the world, and that has nothing to do with guns.

Part of this easy recourse to violence may be down to the cultural legacy of a 'frontier society', but, imo, the nature of Americans themselves probably plays a part. All Americans came from somewhere else. They're descendants of people who uprooted themselves from the known and took a dangerous leap into the unknown. It's likely they differed in character and experience from those who stayed at home. They brought those genes to the New World.

In character inventories Americans score significantly higher on 'extroversion' than Europeans. Extroverted people are less inhibited, cheat more often, divorce more often, change jobs more often, crash their cars more often ... and, if their extroversion is tinged with psychopathology, kill more often.

Australia, another immigrant society, also has high crime and violence statistics.

All of which is possibly true.

Yet does not change the underlying fact: deny people the ability to get their hands on an efficient killing machine and you make it harder for them to efficiently kill people.