Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch

[Pronewbie]

How did Luis Enrique do it with MSN at Barca?

Or Ancelotti/Zidane with BBC at Real?

Suarez has very high defensive work rates. Messi ran a bit more and so did Neymar.

Benzema was willing to sacrifice for Ronaldo to flourish. Bale is no slouch in his defensive duties either. He started his senior career as a LB afterall.

Not being a Poch apologist here because I have the same question marks but I find your comparisons are a bit off. Football has also evolved dramatically since Pep's Barca. The defensive requirements for attacking players are much higher now.

 

[troylocker]

Except I don't have a hard on for Poch, he wouldn't be my first choice, but he is better choice than Ten Hag for me, I don't see any Poch cult here, you are projecting, all people that don't mind Poch in is just that, people being cautiously positive about him coming in because he has league experience and lots of positives from his Southampton and Spurs days. But reading Ten Hag people you would think he is second coming of Christ that is 100% guaranteed to win everything in his path if he comes here.

So I don't know which one you would call "cult" here.

You might not be part of the most fanatic Poch cultists in here, but there is definitely a Poch-cult in here.

I think we can say with a certainty that there is no guaratees of success no matter who we bring in.

Ten Hag gets a lot of praise for what he's been doing with Ajax the last few years with limited resources and having to sell their best players every year. Ajax has had a net spending of minus 218M £ since 2017, selling players like De Ligt, Ziyech, Frenkie DJ ++ that were absolute world beaters for them. He looks an exciting prospect, but it is of course impossible to know how he would cope in a big club like ours and with the pressure that comes with a job like this. I'm impressed with the job he's done at Ajax and out of the candidates out there, I like the football philosophy he represents best. I would like to see what he could do here, but agree that he would also come with risk. There is something very appealing with Ajax' goal difference this season (42-2 after 13 games), when you know how much we've been struggling defensively lately.

I think Poch is a good manager, but I also think Poch has proved multiple times that when pressure and expectation gets high, he doesn't have what it takes to produce the goods on the absolute top level. He's proven in Southampton and Spurs that he can do wonders when the expectations are lower, but he's earned the bottlerstamp for a reason. That fact that he managed to lose the players and crash that Spurs team like he did, combined with a quite underwhelming first 11 months at PSG (given the squad and competition) makes me very sceptical to him having what it takes to succeed here. There is nothing in his managing career so far that suggests that he would suddenly start winning trophies with us, absolutely nothing.
Because of his cult in here, that has been proclaiming him as the Messiah of coaching (making world class stars out of "average" talents like Kane and Son, and similar stuff) since long before Ole was made permanent manager and the huge amount of people in here being sceptical to him, he will not get much time here before the "sack Poch"-threads will be flooding this place. I think Ten Hag would get more time than Poch to implement his philosophy here, and I believe our chances are better with him than with Poch.

 

[passing-wind]

How did Luis Enrique do it with MSN at Barca?

Or Ancelotti/Zidane with BBC at Real?

The stature of the club's is the biggest factor PSG for me just are not an elite club. The toxicity of Barcelona / Madrid fans wouldn't stand for such output from the players. Look at how much negative publicity surrounds United when players under perform I'd imagine the same would be similar for Bayern etc. Also Suarez has always shown a good work ethic off the ball, Benzema likewise excellent movement. Neymar at Barcelona had to work, it was his first big move and I feel his playing level has regressed since leaving Barcelona.

Tuchel made a point that it was easier to coach Lukaku than Mbappe / Neymar combined because they have an inability of respecting and submitting to authority. If Tuchel is saying this having just won the UCL and mounting a strong league challenge with a team with lesser "star" quality team in Chelsea, does it speak more about the manager or the childish mentality the players have at PSG ?

Zidane might be the only person in world football to get a decent work ethic out of them but as far as it stands the only people that run PSG are the players, they seemingly have more influence than the owners which is ridiculous.

 

[JPRouve]

I think even Pochettino would agree with that. It's around that time he got really frustrated with the lack of investment if I recall correctly. I think the following season was the one where he was asking for a top quality striker, and got Llorente

Spurs did invest, it's one of those things that I don't get, they spent around 470m gross during his 6 years which unlike what people think is a lot of money in Football. Then people will talk about his net spend, they almost exclusively sold deadwood, the exception being Walker who was already replaced by Trippier and then Aurier was added. That summer wheere they didn't spend was remarkable but it doesn't eliminate what they did before and after.

And why would he get a top quality striker when they were looking for a backup? His systems have always focused on one striker and he had the best in the league.

 

[Real Name]

Just get him in so we can have a new manager.

 

[crossy1686]

It's an impossible job for anyone but a Zidane type character who the ego's will instantly respect no matter how banal their tactics may be.

On top of that they're playing in a league where Messi, Neymar and Mbappe don't have to track back, if the opposition score it doesn't matter, they know they'll get at least 2 between the three of them later in the game. They carried that attitude into the CL last night and it was clear to see, it really is a shit job.

 

[rotherham_red]

Before this week, and before I started to actually think about it, my preference was always on us taking the risk and going for Potter, or Lopetegui, or even Rose at Dortmund (though his Dortmund side are struggling) before looking at Poch or ETH. However, now that the deed has been done, I've thought on it a little more, and I think I'd choose Poch.

My reasoning for that is that, for me, I don't think there's too drastic a difference between ETH and Poch mentioned in terms of either style (though ETH is a tad more possession-oriented) or their results if they were to come here. So I'm not actually *too* fussed around who we end up choosing if they are the choices we have.

Where my decision ultimately lies, is who is going to be the best fit for the often chaotic, always parochial Glazers and Woody/Arnold? As no matter how amazing your footballing vision is, as our previous experiences with managers have shown, if you don't get unequivocal backing and support, then it simply will not be reflected on the pitch. Every manager we've had can point to a deficiency from the board which ultimately proved fatal to them and their vision. Moyes had Ed the apprentice. LvG is on record for saying he had to go to his 3rd and 4th choices. Jose almost had the club in a state of civil war, and Ole had to show extreme patience in his first two seasons, where it could very strongly be argued that they set him up to fail. And then when he did finally get a decent transfer window, the Glazers had to ruin it by getting Ronaldo and ignoring his requests for a midfielder.

On that front therefore, I'd probably be leaning towards Poch. He's been used to Levy and his parsimony, and he's had a taste of the weird ego management at PSG, at both Executive and Playing Staff level. In essence, he's had the worst of both worlds in that respect, and while Utd's board essentially combine the two in one dirty package, they aren't anywhere near as egregious in one aspect or the other than Spurs and PSG are. He's also been able to thrive and find balance with an imbalanced squad at Spurs, and he now has the experience of handling the big players at PSG.

It might ultimately still prove to be insufficient, but if I was given the choice of the two, it's Poch for me.

 

[pcaming]

How did Luis Enrique do it with MSN at Barca?

Or Ancelotti/Zidane with BBC at Real?

Well for starters, their supporters would crucify them for chilling on the halfway line while their team was under pressure and allowing the defence to be outnumbered. Then there's the fact that Suarez was a terrier and Messi actually used to press just as much as anyone in the team, it's only in the last few years he has seemingly lost his legs (or desire). As for BBC, they were not passengers, certainly not Bale and Benzema. Those players respected the jerseys they put on, they don't respect PSG nearly the same, partly because the owners allow them.

 

[Red_Jamie]

It's a little misleading given one game later they were 6th, it was still early in the season.

By that point though I think time had just run its course and his head wasn't in it anymore, which all stemmed from a lack of backing from Levy until it was too late. It's not like it's gotten any better for Spurs since then, that's just the level of the squad now and Poch even said prior to leaving that they were heading for a "painful rebuild".

Wasn’t backed how? Didn’t he spend £350m at Spurs?

 

[Pexbo]

How did Luis Enrique do it with MSN at Barca?

Or Ancelotti/Zidane with BBC at Real?

To be fair Suarez/Benzema are night and day ahead of Mbappe when it comes to team work.

 

[Laurencio]

Spurs did invest, it's one of those things that I don't get, they spent around 470m gross during his 6 years which unlike what people think is a lot of money in Football. Then people will talk about his net spend, they almost exclusively sold deadwood, the exception being Walker who was already replaced by Trippier and then Aurier was added. That summer wheere they didn't spend was remarkable but it doesn't eliminate what they did before and after.

And why would he get a top quality striker when they were looking for a backup? His systems have always focused on one striker and he had the best in the league.

I don't think Pochettino made it a secret that some of the players that were brought in weren't his preferred choices. He might have been naive as to who Spurs could attract, but they generally went for players with lower wage demands than I think Pochettino wanted. He wanted to challenge City though, so he was kinda living in fantasy land. Didn't he tell the press that Levy had to be "brave in the transfer market" if they were going to take the step up to the next level? I seem to recall that.

Speaking of Llorente - who turned out fairly decent lets be honest - didn't he also throw a fit because Levy refused to resign him? I'm sure there were more stories like that, I just can't remember off the top of my head.

How did Luis Enrique do it with MSN at Barca?

Or Ancelotti/Zidane with BBC at Real?

The answer is the S in MSN and the second B in BBC. Players that worked hard and sacrificed their own output for the good of the team.

 

[TMDaines]

Mauricio Pochettino has not been able to confirm whether he will sit on the PSG bench in the round of 16. He has replied, laughing, "thank you, bye." If he were 100% convinced, he would have answered with a resounding yes. We'll see if he's still at PSG in February.

PSG to wait for us to appoint an interim and then sack him. Calling it now.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't think Pochettino made it a secret that some of the players that were brought in weren't his preferred choices. He might have been naive as to who Spurs could attract, but they generally went for players with lower wage demands than I think Pochettino wanted. He wanted to challenge City though, so he was kinda living in fantasy land. Didn't he tell the press that Levy had to be "brave in the transfer market" if they were going to take the step up to the next level? I seem to recall that.

Speaking of Llorente - who turned out fairly decent lets be honest - didn't he also throw a fit because Levy refused to resign him? I'm sure there were more stories like that, I just can't remember off the top of my head.

That applies to all managers, no one gets all his preferred choices. It was the topic of a conversation earlier this week but when all is said and done, Pochettino spent more than someone like Simeone, he did it without losing key players outside of Walker and unless Spurs are a lot wealthier than we know, he was backed within the capabilities of his club. All managers want more but it doesn't mean that it's possible or reasonable.

 

[KennyBurner]

Has anyone been able to analyze what type of manager he is? Is he progressive enough or what? I don’t want another manager that thinks AWB is enough for our RB position.

 

[Idxomer]

That there are quotes of him saying he was already a manager and involved in everything when Spurs changed his title in 2016. 3 years later he wanted to be called just a coach and said he had nothing to do with transfers.

Does anyone know what happened there?

 

[Pronewbie]

Has anyone been able to analyze what type of manager he is? Is he progressive enough or what? I don’t want another manager that thinks AWB is enough for our RB position.

I’ve been reading up on our candidates and someone shared this a couple days ago: https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/mauricio-pochettino-tottenham-paris-saint-germain/

You’ll be pleased to know that full-backs are very important to him for building up attacks. It’s probably why PSG brought in Hakimi. He’s a player I wish we got.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Think games like last night will make PSG board think if it's better to get some other manager in before February so they have better chance of CL success. Don't think they trust him to do much in Europe, though title is already in the bag. So Zidane going to PSG and Poch coming to United in December could still happen. Wouldn't be surprised if we hire an interim and they sack Poch after that

 

[Laurencio]

That applies to all managers, no one gets all his preferred choices. It was the topic of conversation earlier this weak but when all is said and done, Pochettino spent more than someone like Simeone, he did it without losing key players outside of Walker and unless Spurs are a lot wealthier than we know, he was backed within the capabilities of his club. All managers want more but it doesn't mean that it's possible or reasonable.

No you're correct, it wasn't reasonable to expect anything more from Levy. The stadium cost a lot of money and spurs had to be careful with their finances- there's no question. It was just the situation he and the club found themselves in. A situation I think he was fine with for a long time, but I do believe that his feelings/mentality towards that changed, and that is when we start to see Pochettino get testy and frustrated with the whole situation. He wanted to bring Spurs up to City's level, but he hit a ceiling he couldn't get past and wound up burning out the squad. After the CL final loss in 2019 he just seemed defeated - like he knew he couldn't do any more than he had done with the resources available.

I think that last season of dreadfulness was just a case of a manager and a club coming to a natural conclusion and nothing more.

 

[lloyd2wayne]

Suarez has very high defensive work rates. Messi ran a bit more and so did Neymar.

Benzema was willing to sacrifice for Ronaldo to flourish. Bale is no slouch in his defensive duties either. He started his senior career as a LB afterall.

Not being a Poch apologist here because I have the same question marks but I find your comparisons are a bit off. Football has also evolved dramatically since Pep's Barca. The defensive requirements for attacking players are much higher now.

His comparison isn’t off at all. Managers have managed big egos and still got the best out of them and actually won titles. Examples like how Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Benzena, Bale all worked well together. Those are big egos however way you want to look it.

All of a sudden egos can’t be managed. Laughable

 

[BorisManUtd]

No you're correct, it wasn't reasonable to expect anything more from Levy. The stadium cost a lot of money and spurs had to be careful with their finances- there's no question. It was just the situation he and the club found themselves in. A situation I think he was fine with for a long time, but I do believe that his feelings/mentality towards that changed, and that is when we start to see Pochettino get testy and frustrated with the whole situation. He wanted to bring Spurs up to City's level, but he hit a ceiling he couldn't get past and wound up burning out the squad. After the CL final loss in 2019 he just seemed defeated - like he knew he couldn't do any more than he had done with the resources available.

I think that last season of dreadfulness was just a case of a manager and a club coming to a natural conclusion and nothing more.

Their whole 2019 was bad though, 8 wins, 8 defeats and 2 draws in PL since January 1st of that year, lost all away games and didn't win an away game until West Ham when Jose took over. It was a very good team but remember most people always thought it couldn't keep going on forever when they're not spending and improving squad and key players willingly being on not really big wages, it had to turn bad eventually. CL final loss probably hurt the most and they lost the motivation for next season.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Watching that game last night, and the other Champions League games they've played in this season, they look like a team that could be managed by anyone. There's no indication at all that this is a Pochettino team. Or at least what you would associate a Pochettino team to look like. Again, anyone could have been standing on the sideline last night. There was no discernible style or identity about them. They looked exactly what United have been criticised for under Ole: a group of individuals. You're just waiting for one of the superstars to do something.

This could be a symptom of the type of players they have playing for them. This almost blasé, I'll do what i want when i feel like it, kind of attitude. Or it could be a condemnation of the manager himself, in that he can't get a tune out of these supremely talented players. Now i say get a tune out of them, I'm aware that they're far ahead in the league, but I'm talking about implementing a discernible style and identity. And, obviously, this team will be judged on Champions League glory, not what they necessarily do in the league.

So it is a little bit of a concern, and this is coming from someone who generally likes him and would be happy to have him as our manager.

 

[JPRouve]

I want to preface this point with the fact that we don't know whether Pochettino actually has an issue with managing egos or if his issues have anything to do with man management. Now if it was, people shouldn't make excuses for him or any other manager because all top teams have a bunch of egos in the dressing room, almost all superstars and all time greats were stubborn, opinionated and proud, it's part of what drive them to be at the top. Not being able to handle that caliber of player should be held against a manager that has the ambition to manage the biggest club in the world and presumably the best players because I don't think that any of us wants to see a team full of midtable runners.

 

[Santoryo]

How did Luis Enrique do it with MSN at Barca?

Or Ancelotti/Zidane with BBC at Real?

Do you even know how those players played or how those teams played. Suarez has dog in him and fights for the ball. Neymar can also chase the ball(heck even in Paris he does that at times but the other 2 won't bother which makes his few attempts pointless). And Messi at Barca a few years ago was 10 times the hard worker current lazy Messi is.

Similarly with Real Madrid, Benzema works hard, so did Bale. Current PSG front 3 don't even attempt at all, beside Neymar who sometimes hustles. There was this passage of play yesterday when PSG were trying to push and press high with Neymar chasing and closing his full back who then pass the ball to a player that was literally like half a meter away from Messi and instead of quickly closing on him and try to win that ball back, Messi literally just watched the man go past him half a meter away from him without even attempting to put his leg in the way and impede him. He just let him go past him while he was walking. I was beyond bewildered.

 

[Matt851]

How did Luis Enrique do it with MSN at Barca?

Or Ancelotti/Zidane with BBC at Real?

Well both those teams had some of the best footballing midfielders of recent generations behind their front players which helped their team control the midfield in a way that psg can't

They also had messi and ronaldo in their prime, for all the qualities of the psg front 3 none of them is close to that level. I also think that both MSN and BBC were more willing / able to run than this psg forward line is.

There is also the fact that football has changed - the best teams today seem to be triumphs of structure and cohesion rather than individual flair and individual ability. I don't think the former is achievable with the former, you could argue poch should drop one of them going forward and he may well do that

 

[Santoryo]

Think games like last night will make PSG board think if it's better to get some other manager in before February so they have better chance of CL success. Don't think they trust him to do much in Europe, though title is already in the bag. So Zidane going to PSG and Poch coming to United in December could still happen. Wouldn't be surprised if we hire an interim and they sack Poch after that

Then we sack the interim right away.

 

[Santoryo]

His comparison isn’t off at all. Managers have managed big egos and still got the best out of them and actually won titles. Examples like how Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Benzena, Bale all worked well together. Those are big egos however way you want to look it.

All of a sudden egos can’t be managed. Laughable

Name me 1 successful top team who've had all their front line with big egos who don't work hard. Just name me one.

The names you've listed are stars but they is a mixture of hardworking players among them something that isn't currently the case with PSG. I for one would love to see which manager get that front 3 to try and work hard together. Aside from Neymar, I don't see it happening.

 

[Laurencio]

I want to preface this point with the fact that we don't know whether Pochettino actually has an issue with managing egos or if his issues have anything to do with man management. Now if it was, people shouldn't make excuses for him or any other manager because all top teams have a bunch of egos in the dressing room, almost all superstars and all time greats were stubborn, opinionated and proud, it's part of what drive them to be at the top. Not being able to handle that caliber of player should be held against a manager that has the ambition to manage the biggest club in the world and presumably the best players because I don't think that any of us wants to see a team full of midtable runners.

I agree with you. I just don't think that actually happens to be the case with Pochettino. I know you prefaced the point that we don't know, but from what little I see of the team a lot of PSG's problems stem from their midfield not being up to par with the rest of the team - you would probably know more about this than I do, but it seems to me that without Veratti PSG's midfield just doesn't work properly. Having three world class strikers is all well and good, but the midfield is the engine of a team. If you have a bad midfield, the rest of the team suffers and the front line becomes less effective. It certainly doesn't look anywhere near as good as when they had Marquinhos and Veratti in there with Silva and Kimpembe behind them.

Whatever is going on with Neymar, Messi and Mbappe - I think it's deeper than a man-management issue. Could be Messi has just become lazy, that Neymar and Mbappe see themselves as competing against one another rather than playing on the same team, or that everyone has seriously undervalued just how incredibly impressive Suarez's work was in that MSN trio. Could also be that the PSG management actively undermines their manager at every turn in order to placate their superstars, effectively making every manager completely powerless to prevent internal drama. Or it could be something as simple as the trio not having figured out how to play effectively together yet. My money is on PSG management undermining the manager, but who knows.

I honestly have no idea, but there's a lot of other reasons other than not being able to handle egos that could be at play at PSG.

 

[troylocker]

People are just ignoring the context of Poch at PSG. He’s got three of the biggest egos in world football who refuse to put a shift in and there’s nothing he can do about it, they must play. His demeanour is one of a manger who doesn’t have full control of his team as they’re carrying three players. Rubbish situation to be in as a manager.

Funny nickname for a guy, slating the workrate of other clubs players...

Neymar works his socks off when he plays, and while Messi and Mbappe could work harder, they are far from bottom of the pressingnumbers-list for attackers out there.

Pressingnumbers for some highprofile attackers out there:

Neymar - 15,3 pressings/90 minutes
Messi - 9,5 pressings/90 minutes
Mbappe - 7,3 pressings/90 minutes (weak for a 22 year old)

Jesus - 18,3 pressings/90 minutes
Haaland - 13,2 pressings/90 minutes
Salah - 13,1 pressings/90 minutes
Kane - 10,1 pressings/90 minutes
Lewa - 8,2 pressings/90 minutes
Lukaku - 6,6 pressings/90 minutes
Ronaldo - 5,4 pressings/90 minutes (lowest in the top 5 leagues)

Managers are responsible for their players....

 

[TheReligion]

The French league must be utter utter garbage if Poch is doing such a bad job at PSG yet the club is 11 points clear?

 

[SAFMUTD]

100% agree. I think Poch could do well here - improve our players and maybe get us in a title race but Ten hag is the best available option, he has the potential to do what Pep and klopp have done in my opinion.

If we are striving to be the best - ETH is the one. Worryingly quiet in the media though.

Poch just seems to be the option that suits the most people: our board, the English media, the French media, PSG, the country of Qatar, our rivals and their fans, even Spurs who aren't losing too much sleep now they have Conte.

Ten hag only benefits us.

Yes, sadly I think the rumors are too strong for Poch. I don't think we'll get him before the summer unless he's sacked from PSG.

But Ten Haag I feel we're going to regret not going for him, he'll definitely move on to a big club in the summer. He's just too good.

 

[SAFMUTD]

The French league must be utter utter garbage if Poch is doing such a bad job at PSG yet the club is 11 points clear?

To be fair I think pretty much any half decent manager would/should win the french league with PSG, the difference between squads is overwhelming.

 

[TheReligion]

To be fair I think pretty much any half decent manager would/should win the french league with PSG, the difference between squads is overwhelming.

I don't disagree but we already know a few ex PSG manager's that haven't..

I've been reading that Poch is doing nothing with this side and basically anyone could be stood on the touchline in his place.

Damning indictment of the state of the French top flight.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

The French league must be utter utter garbage if Poch is doing such a bad job at PSG yet the club is 11 points clear?

Well Messi seems to be finding it rather hard.

 

[troylocker]

The French league must be utter utter garbage if Poch is doing such a bad job at PSG yet the club is 11 points clear?

They have the best player in the league in every position on the pitch by some margin…..

 

[BusbyMalone]

I don't disagree but we already know a few ex PSG manager's that haven't..

I've been reading that Poch is doing nothing with this side and basically anyone could be stood on the touchline in his place.

Damning indictment of the state of the French top flight.

I actually think this, but i was talking more about how his team (at least what I've seen in the Champions League) don't have any real discernible style. Or at least, they don't look like what you imagine a Poch team would look like after seeing him at Southampton and Spurs. Which could be a product of the type of player he has there (with their super egos, etc.) or a condemnation of him as a coach in that he can't implement a style or identity with said players. It was just an observation i had while watching them in this seasons Champions League.

Like most things, it's probably a bit of both.

 

[BluesJr]

Bye.

 

[JPRouve]

I agree with you. I just don't think that actually happens to be the case with Pochettino. I know you prefaced the point that we don't know, but from what little I see of the team a lot of PSG's problems stem from their midfield not being up to par with the rest of the team - you would probably know more about this than I do, but it seems to me that without Veratti PSG's midfield just doesn't work properly. Having three world class strikers is all well and good, but the midfield is the engine of a team. If you have a bad midfield, the rest of the team suffers and the front line becomes less effective. It certainly doesn't look anywhere near as good as when they had Marquinhos and Veratti in there with Silva and Kimpembe behind them.

Whatever is going on with Neymar, Messi and Mbappe - I think it's deeper than a man-management issue. Could be Messi has just become lazy, that Neymar and Mbappe see themselves as competing against one another rather than playing on the same team, or that everyone has seriously undervalued just how incredibly impressive Suarez's work was in that MSN trio. Could also be that the PSG management actively undermines their manager at every turn in order to placate their superstars, effectively making every manager completely powerless to prevent internal drama. Or it could be something as simple as the trio not having figured out how to play effectively together yet. My money is on PSG management undermining the manager, but who knows.

I honestly have no idea, but there's a lot of other reasons other than not being able to handle egos that could be at play at PSG.

I totally agree with you, that's what I have seen for a few season and why I was behind Tuchel when he was complaining, it wasn't the best way to go about it but he was right. Today their midfield has legs but they are not the smartest or most technical players around outside of Verratti. That's also why I rate Tuchel higher despite having even bigger issues in terms of personnel, he found solutions, one of them being Marquinhos in center midfield and at some point even Draxler when Verratti wasn't fit.

And no the problem for PSG is that despite what people think they tried to not ignore FFP which has led them to not be able to fix all issues easily with money, they also lost Rabiot for nothing which wasn't planned and had to sell lots of young players. They lost homegrown players that were supposed to thicken the team some of them being midfielders like Aouchiche, Adli, Nkunku. And you also have mistakes like the Lo Celso transfer clause that was too low and led to his transfer at Tottenham through Betis.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Most good-to-great managers peaked before 50.

Productive time spent at work earlier today:

Key: Age at first appointment as first team manager/head coach (assistant doesn't count, youth team manager doesn't count, but I count Barca B/Real Madrid Castilla and the like) - age when the manager won his first league title - age when the manager won his first (major) European trophy

(Obviously there are names missing from this list - these are just the ones that came to mind immediately).

Ancelotti: 36 - 44 - 43
Sacchi: 26 - 42 - 43 *
Herrera: 34 - 40 - 54
Michels: 32 - 38 - 43
Guttmann: 34 - 40 - 62
Heynckes: 34 - 44 - 53
Paisley: 55 - 57 - 57 **
Busby: 36 - 43 - 59
Shankly: 36 - 51 - 60
Stein: 32 - 44 - 45
Clough: 30 - 37 - 44
Pep: 36 - 38 - 38
Klopp: 34 - 44 - 52
Tuchel: 34 - 46 - 48
Rocco: 35 - 50 - 51
Zidane: 40 - 45 - 44
Trapattoni: 35 - 38 - 38
LVG: 40 - 43 - 44
Cruyff: 38 - 44 - 40
Happel: 37 - 46 - 45
Lattek: 35 - 37 - 39
Lobanovskyi: 30 - 35 - 36
Del Bosque: 37 - 51 - 50
Hitzfeld: 34 - 41 - 48
Mourinho 37 - 40 - 40

And...

SAF: 33 - 39 - 42

(I'm aware that these numbers look like body measurements for women - I consider this a bonus).

* Atypical trajectory (had no playing career to speak of and didn't start out as an assistant either).

** Atypical trajectory (spent decades as an assistant).

 

[MattofManchester]

I just don't see him as one of those managers who can be right up there at the top of the game.

I think he's a good to great manager, but fits in well at clubs like Arsenal and Spurs, where he's tasked with building a squad and pushing them to CL places.

I don't think the likes of Bayern, Madrid, Manchester United, giants of the game that demand and require consistent success are places he will succeed.

I don't know, I just don't see it with him.
Nor do I understand our club's obsession with him.

 

[TMDaines]

PSG sacking him before the end of the year feels somewhat inevitable now, especially if he has irritated the management and burnt his bridges there. Maybe he will still be our long-term manager, but he surely won't be at United before the summer.