Calling Arsenal an average team is a 'swipe'.
Mesut Özil
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Not really. You obviously took it out of context, average in comparison to some of the teams of the past. But in terms of quality, yeah you's have a good team. Funny, I have generally always spoken positive about Arsenal on here on here due to the fact that I have never had any major problem with your lot - yet you's are having a go at something that was obviously taken out of context when some people on here slate your lot. Quite amusing indeed as I have often stuck up for the likes of Ramsey and Giroud when they were getting dogs abuse.
It really wasn't a 'swipe' and I'm deeply sorry for any offence that was caused. You poor sensitive bunch.
I'm not having a go at you, mate. I made my points politely. But I disagree, I think Arsenal are a very good team, and like I said we're two players from having a real title challenging squad, which is what a vintage Wenger side looks like.
It's not very clever to break our transfer record and pay £7m a year to play someone out of position. In fact it's quite likely that part of the reason he wanted to leave was so that he could go back to being the key player in a team rather than being shunted out to the wing half the time. There just wouldn't have been any chance to give him and Rooney what they wanted, so it inevitably would've been one or the other. Given how much change we've had this summer it makes sense to hold on to what you've got. Even if you don't think Rooney's as good as Özil you can see the logic in that, right? In the end Rooney could move on next summer and this could look like a terrible mistake, but equally in 12 months time Januzaj may have established himself as a first-team player and have shown the potential to be a key player for us while offering many of the same qualities as Özil at a fraction of the cost.
I think a lot of people underestimated just what a transformative effect bringing one of the better players in the world into the squad can have on the dressing room. Apart from the obvious talent that the player himself brings in, there is also the confidence/knock-on effect that player will have on the rest of the team that makes them aim higher and play better.
Also, having watched him for 90 minutes for Arsenal a handful of times, I think people underestimated his defensive contribution when they said he won't work back at all... he does a pretty decent job covering for people and isn't exactly a lazy fecker when it comes to defending.
Basically,we missed out big-time on this one... I honestly believe he would be the difference in us hailing Moyes' glorious start to the season and being in the position we are currently in. I also don't doubt that SAF would have signed him... and I realise how easy that is to say and that it's a bit of an unsubstanstiated cheap shot, but this is the man who said that when world-class talent becomes available, you simply have to buy... and that's what Ozil is.
Also, having watched him for 90 minutes for Arsenal a handful of times, I think people underestimated his defensive contribution when they said he won't work back at all... he does a pretty decent job covering for people and isn't exactly a lazy fecker when it comes to defending.
Basically,we missed out big-time on this one... I honestly believe he would be the difference in us hailing Moyes' glorious start to the season and being in the position we are currently in. I also don't doubt that SAF would have signed him... and I realise how easy that is to say and that it's a bit of an unsubstanstiated cheap shot, but this is the man who said that when world-class talent becomes available, you simply have to buy... and that's what Ozil is.
But I am completely agreeing with you to be honest.
I still have faith that we can employ Januzaj in the same way, both extremely similar players. One is proven and the other is still growing but if Adnan was to commit and become a first teamer, we wouldn't be so envious of Ozil. Also I don't think our side would get the best out of him tbh.
Kagawa's another player vying for the same position.
It would be interesting to know if the emergence of Januzaj was an influence on our decision. Of course, it will be another 2 or 3 years before he'll be able to achieve the same kind of consistency of performance and if we can't get him to sign a new contract it will be a colossal feck up all round. Similar player though. Reminds me a lot of watching Ozil in the 21s. In the grand scheme of things it would be far more satisfying if our own Ozil came from within, rather than signing one ready made. The long term gain will definitely cause short term pain though.
It would be interesting to know if the emergence of Januzaj was an influence on our decision. Of course, it will be another 2 or 3 years before he'll be able to achieve the same kind of consistency of performance and if we can't get him to sign a new contract it will be a colossal feck up all round. Similar player though. Reminds me a lot of watching Ozil in the 21s. In the grand scheme of things it would be far more satisfying if our own Ozil came from within, rather than signing one ready made. The long term gain will definitely cause short term pain though.
Doesn't it always, though? That's what this club has always been about and I don't want to see that change.
I just can't stand to see Ozil in an Arsenal shirt. He would've been perfect for us, I don't know if the rumours are true that we had a chance to sign him but turned it down. If they are, oh deary me!!!
'Tis true. Of course, we're in for a whole world of short-term pain anyway - bedding in our new manager - so you could argue that the club should have changed it's policy for a year or two, to help him bed in. Open the cheque book and spunk 100 and something million on 2 or 3 of the best players around. That could give Moyes the momentum he needs to look like Fergie's heir apparent. Much easier having faith in our youth development when your belief in the manager is unshakeable and you're constantly in a title race. Without that, all sorts of doubts can creep in. This will apply to fans and - more worryingly - players.
This opinion that Arsenal are an average team is very understandable. People look down the starting XI and think 'not many of them would get into our side.' The problem with that view though is that unfashionable players have been performing to such a high standard recently. You can't argue with 19 wins in 22 games.
Januzaj is eighteen, surely you wouldn't have ruined his development by signing Ozil.
It can have an adverse effect too though, as we probably saw with Rooney last year. Arsenal bringing in Özil means they're pushing Cazorla out wide and I'd say that will inevitably see him fail to hit the heights of last year. Given how good Özil is that's a good trade-off, but would that be the case with Rooney? We were willing to do that with Kagawa last year to fit van Persie in but I don't think we'd have been so quick to push Rooney to the side. We've already seen his somewhat fragile ego on plenty of occasions so it's fair to wonder whether that would have had a positive transformative effect on him, and seeing as he's one of the few leaders in the side and arguably our key player, that's got to be a pretty big factor.
It can have a transformative effect on Arsenal's dressing room because they've failed to hold on to their top players and bring in new ones, but it's a different scenario with us. We've kept Rooney, we've brought in van Persie, we have a team of title-winners...it's night and day really. Arsenal needed a lift of that kind that we don't. And if bringing in that player causes one of our other top players to be marginalised or leave, then most of that positive impact could easily be negated.
There's also the fact that all these players they have are the right side of 30, and mostly the right side of 25... which means they're getting better and peoples expectations of their level of performance isn't moving along with them.
I don't think that's necessarily true. I think you'll see Ozil and Cazorla interchange from central to wide positions fairly well. Ozil and Ramsey did it last night.
If anything, it would have been fantastic for his development. He'd have learned a lot from him.
Thats a fair counter - and yes, it's definitely night/day int erms of our dressing room and there's, but I do think that - under a new manager, and a new era, seeing that the club is putting in the money to buy top class players would provide a boost even to our players - but ultimately I'm just guessing on that one, and your points could indeed be the more logical way of looking at it.
The Rooney thing is of course a massive factor, but I think we could have used Ozil out wide predominately and kept Rooney happy... As Archie said, the interchanging between Ozil and Ramsey could be what we might have been able to see with Ozil and Rooney... though actually, now I've said that, this interchanging hasn't really occured with Rooney and Kagawa, so I'm probably pipe-dreaming here.
Still - we don't actually know if Rooney is even happy at the moment! We're playing him in his prefered spot and he could still be a miserable fecker...
Yes, precisely.
We were playing well before Ozil, but his arrival seems to be lifting the others even more. This is why you sign world class players. It doesn't even matter how well Ozil plays, he just elevates the performance of all those around him by his mere presence.
The effect Ozil would have had on Utd would probably have been different to what he's currently doing at Arsenal but these pbs (having too many quality players even for more or less the same position) are good to have.
Yup. It's been said before but no doubt in my mind we would be playing far better football had we signed a world class player ourselves. Would have lifted the whole team after SAF's departure and it was key we brought one in. To not do so was a failure for us and may set us back years depending how we do this season.
Where would we play him though? Stick him on the right wing and expect him to whip crosses in 
We need to move on a bit now from 4-4-2. The players available just are not suitable to wing play.
We need to move on a bit now from 4-4-2. The players available just are not suitable to wing play.
Where would we play him though? Stick him on the right wing and expect him to whip crosses in
We need to move on a bit now from 4-4-2. The players available just are not suitable to wing play.
You mean like he did for Giroud last night? Yeah, mental!
Joking aside, I know what you're saying... but there are other ways to play on the right wing that don't involve being Antonio Valencia, and ways to set-up your team that don't involve a winger that is Antonio Valencia.... and you're right in that we could do with feilding/settiing-up starting XI's that do this.
Does he have some kind of underlying condition that inhibits him from lasting the whole game? I know he played the full game last night but his performance did significantly drop in the last 20minutes.
It could be the "I've alreadly won this sodding game" syndrome....Yaya Toure often suffers from this very disease in games where he plays well.
At Madrid he invariably got the hook about three quarters of the way through the game, no matter how well or badly he and the team played. At least that's what happened every time I watched them.
That's because Ozil is a class player though, he can play across all of the front positions and create something.
Its like Nani in that respect, any top class player can play in all positions, which is why limited players like Valencia are becoming outdated.
Its like Nani in that respect, any top class player can play in all positions, which is why limited players like Valencia are becoming outdated.
Which is a bit surprising though, credit to him or the manager or whoever is responsible. Hopefully he keeps it up, I love watching him play, but there were times over the last 2 years when I thought the German nationalteam would be stronger with Kroos or Götze instead of him in the team for a few reasons, his contribution in defense was one of them. I would love it to be proven wrong, because at his best he's imo the most enjoyable player to watch right now.
I love how Wenger uses him though, I always thought he was limited to being a feeder for Ronaldo at Real instead of using him to his full strength. His best performances were always with the nationalteam, especially with Müller and Klose as a triangle with brilliant off the ball movement and selfless play by all involved. His first half yesterday was better than any game I can think of in a Madrid shirt and I'm sure there's more to come.
Now why is that I never hear anyone say that about Shinji Kagawa? Hmmm...
^
That post makes me feel warm inside.
Edit: I mean Balu's post.
That post makes me feel warm inside.
Edit: I mean Balu's post.
He can play different positions though and create, but his limited physical ability stops him from taking on players on the outside which hurts him.
Come on Pogue. I'm hardly a Kagawa apologist but the statement "any top class player can play in all positions" is simply not true.
It's bollox but I'm constantly amused the way different standards seem to be applied to different players, depending how popular they are on the caf.
Well, if you consider that Jesus could probably have played in a few different positions (RW/CM/CF) and Kagawa is our version of Jesus, I don't think it's too outlandish....
Top attacking players being able to play right across the attack is nothing new, so why would players like that become "outdated" now if they weren't outdated over a decade ago when there were more top players?
As long as we actually keep januzaj. I'd rather keep him than almost all of our first teamers. That's the kind of player I've been dying to see in our first team.
Because formations now are relying on the front players playing more narrow, requiring more technical ability in tighter spaces.
The width is mainly from fullbacks where as a few years back traditional wingers were the norm.
Valencia is just too 1 track minded to play in that type of formation, his game is so restricted it really limits the rest of the team.
Sure on his day when he gets it right he can be a big threat, but for me this isn't consistent enough. When his plan A fails he struggles massively to get into the game.
I remember Italian teams being damn successful in Europe for about 2 decades without traditional wingers providing width.
That was playing completely differently though.
I am talking about 4-2-3-1 formations, rather than italian 4-3-1-2 types.
I am just not a fan of rigid players. I feel its important to be able to go wide, or cut in and mix it up if necessary from a wide player.