Mesut Özil

coolredwine said:
Where do you have the options though? Cazorla still seems a little rusty. Podolski has just started training. Walcott might be back, but I don't think you'd want to rely on him considering he can be on and off a bit. Who else is there.
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Cazorla has come off an injury and is looking better with every game, he'll get there eventually. We have Rosicky who can play a more creative role as well, of course in the big games you want Ozil there but we weren't that bad a side last season without him.

gasmanc said:
Admission money he's worth but £42m is debatable.
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In the same summer Fellaini went for £27.5mill, Bale for £85mill, Willian for £30mill, Lamela £28mill, Soldado for £26mill and you're trying tell me his fee is debatable after 3 months here?

Ekeke said:
His form has dipped and its right to bring it up because he cost so much money. Just as it was right to bring it up when he was absolutely fantastic at the beginning of the season.
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Problem is people over hype when having good games and put players down to quickly after average/poor ones. Whether he is worth the money will be decided after His transfer fee should be looked after 2 or 3 seasons, not 2 or 3 months....

Rooney in Paris said:
Yeah ok but there's nothing really genius about that, being a decoy for other players isn't exactly the role of a playmaker. Saying he's a virtual passenger in a lot of games isn't really an insult to him by the way, it's criticism that's been levelled at him before he arrived at Arsenal, and I think it's pretty true. But it's not much of a problem because even when having such a game, he can come up with the goods with a killer pass at a crucial moment. It's what Feed Me was talking about a bit higher up I think, I agree with him.

The really problem with Özil, in my opinion, is this disappearance act in really big games. He is a playmaker, and he seems to not be able to have any influence whatsoever in certain games, just can't seem to grab them by the scruff of the neck and dictate anything. I'd say that's the main problem, rather than having him be quiet for 70 minutes against Norwich and then coming up with a superb assist, because that's what you'd want this type of player to bring to your team.
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It is vital in the team, nothing genius but how come more players don't do it then? Why do more players not do simple things like pass and move? Making the game look simple and making player around you better is one of the hardest things in football. You look at the gif and think big deal but I reckon coaches won't, Lucas had been around him all game and that one moment he dragged him out of position and it effectively cost them the game. That is just part of what he does, he has more passes in the final third than any other outfield player in the league despite missing a few of the opening games. He has set up 6 goals this season and considering we've had to do with makeshift players as our wide forwards who will benefit most from his through balls have been out injured.

A lot of players on here are labelled bottlers in big games but people merely look at end product and label the guy a flop. Same guys who compare Scholes to Gerrard and say Gerrard scored and set up more therefore is the better players, funny how that winds people up around here. Arteta for most of this year has been brilliant but there are Arsenal fans who would rather see Flamini there when quite clearly Arteta is superior. However the media jumping on the Flamini bandwagon and saying he has been part of the reason for our revival and completely ignoring how good Arteta was for us in the run in last season. My point is people don't really look at the whole picture, just look more noticeable things and then make their judgement on that.

Like I said there is plenty more to come from him and he isn't the guy like Fabregas who dictates the game, that isn't his style and he isn't going to become that type of player so why compare? With all due respect to the pundits on this forum if the likes of Mourinho and Wenger trust him like they do then I'd take their opinion over most others.
 
Donaldo said:
Probably one of the last words I'd use to describe him. The penalty wasn't 'ridiculous', it was very well saved, and not very well taken. Are you seriously going to blather on about his lack of control on one occasion when he's shown over the course of the game that he can step up the tempo or take several opposition players out of the equation with one or two touches?

I would've loved to see the reaction on here to Veron.....
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It certainly comes across as cockiness to me.

I can't work it out. He just appears to have the ability to play great when he wants to. The minute after he missed the penalty, he burst through and won a free kick on the edge of the box. In the second half, he was great.

It doesn't seem to be a confidence issue. I appreciate last night we were almost dragged down by how bad Marseilles were, but sometimes I just get the feeling he doesn't concentrate as much as he should at times. When he does, it's superlative.
 
alastair said:
My issue is that he's just a bit cocky sometimes. The penalty was ridiculous, whilst his miscontrol in front of goal in the first half was a simple case of taking his eye off the ball.

When he missed the penalty, he strove to make up for it, and proceeded to play great. There's more to come, but I just want him to keep his head down.
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That is just how he takes penalties, when they come off it is fine but look like poor penalties otherwise. I've seen much worse penalties than that and because they go in they are labelled good penalties.

You are right though he did pick up his game after that miss and that is good to see rather than his head dropping, should of started off like that but after the early goal the whole team wanted to cruise through.
 
Cantona'sCollar said:
Don't think he's cocky - he's always seemed a grounded, sensible person. Perhaps just still so extremely confident in himself, while going through a bad run of form the last few games - that isn't necessarily a bad thing, i'd hope Valencia could learn a thing or two from that. For what it's worth, I think his drop in form (that has been quite exaggerated) is nothing more than a blip - it's more physical than anything (his technical game has suffered, yes, but as a result of him being exhausted), and I am sure Arsenal will know to put him on a special programme. It's nothing new - he finished 90 minutes just a handful of times over his entire Madrid career, so moving to the most physical, fastest league around will only make that problem worse. He'll be back, but could do with a bit of rest it seems.
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I agree that there's probably a link with him playing so much football that it's affecting his game.

His form isn't an issue to me though really. He still produces so much and clearly brings up the standard of our team. His vision is superb. As I said in my other post though, I'd just like to see him concentrate a little more at times, but maybe it is tiredness.
 
Donaldo said:
Probably one of the last words I'd use to describe him. The penalty wasn't 'ridiculous', it was very well saved, and not very well taken. Are you seriously going to blather on about his lack of control on one occasion when he's shown over the course of the game that he can step up the tempo or take several opposition players out of the equation with one or two touches?

I would've loved to see the reaction on here to Veron.....
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I read the forum during those days. It was somewhat like Berba. A group of people who defended him to the hilt and a group who wanted him out.
 
United fans jumping to judge Ozil makes even less sense when you consider how Felliani has started for us
 
JazzG said:
That is just how he takes penalties, when they come off it is fine but look like poor penalties otherwise. I've seen much worse penalties than that and because they go in they are labelled good penalties.

You are right though he did pick up his game after that miss and that is good to see rather than his head dropping, should of started off like that but after the early goal the whole team wanted to cruise through.
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The penalty is fine when it goes in, of course, but last night it was so telegraphed that it would have been harder not to save it in my view. I was standing about 60 yards away and knew exactly where it was going. Things like that are very frustrating when you know that a longer run up, with a firmer strike into the corner would suffice. I also have no idea why Giroud didn't take it given it was only 1-0 and I thought he was our penalty taker now Arteta doesn't start all the time.
 
alastair said:
I agree that there's probably a link with him playing so much football that it's affecting his game.

His form isn't an issue to me though really. He still produces so much and clearly brings up the standard of our team. His vision is superb. As I said in my other post though, I'd just like to see him concentrate a little more at times, but maybe it is tiredness.
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It's definitely the playing time - he'll just have to take time, & work hard, to adjust. Then you'll see more consistency (and reliability) on his part, knowing you can play him 10 times in a row and know he will turn up each time.

Of course he still produces so much and lifts the team - he is simply a class apart - but an Arsenal fan like yourself will know that he can do better (and he will). It is definitely tiredness, just rewatch a few Madrid games. He's always off after 75 minutes. World class player in my opinion, his time in England has reinforced my view on that, if anything - if he is managed well, you'll see the best of him, which you haven't so far.
 
JazzG said:
Cazorla has come off an injury and is looking better with every game, he'll get there eventually. We have Rosicky who can play a more creative role as well, of course in the big games you want Ozil there but we weren't that bad a side last season without him.



In the same summer Fellaini went for £27.5mill, Bale for £85mill, Willian for £30mill, Lamela £28mill, Soldado for £26mill and you're trying tell me his fee is debatable after 3 months here?



Problem is people over hype when having good games and put players down to quickly after average/poor ones. Whether he is worth the money will be decided after His transfer fee should be looked after 2 or 3 seasons, not 2 or 3 months....



It is vital in the team, nothing genius but how come more players don't do it then? Why do more players not do simple things like pass and move? Making the game look simple and making player around you better is one of the hardest things in football. You look at the gif and think big deal but I reckon coaches won't, Lucas had been around him all game and that one moment he dragged him out of position and it effectively cost them the game. That is just part of what he does, he has more passes in the final third than any other outfield player in the league despite missing a few of the opening games. He has set up 6 goals this season and considering we've had to do with makeshift players as our wide forwards who will benefit most from his through balls have been out injured.

A lot of players on here are labelled bottlers in big games but people merely look at end product and label the guy a flop. Same guys who compare Scholes to Gerrard and say Gerrard scored and set up more therefore is the better players, funny how that winds people up around here. Arteta for most of this year has been brilliant but there are Arsenal fans who would rather see Flamini there when quite clearly Arteta is superior. However the media jumping on the Flamini bandwagon and saying he has been part of the reason for our revival and completely ignoring how good Arteta was for us in the run in last season. My point is people don't really look at the whole picture, just look more noticeable things and then make their judgement on that.

Like I said there is plenty more to come from him and he isn't the guy like Fabregas who dictates the game, that isn't his style and he isn't going to become that type of player so why compare? With all due respect to the pundits on this forum if the likes of Mourinho and Wenger trust him like they do then I'd take their opinion over most others.
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Yea, as is Bales fee the others are seemingly more reasonable given the market values, Fellaini is not up for debate, too much full stop.
 
Varun_Utd said:
get the feeling? I doubt there are many here who want to see him succeed at title rivals.
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You're right about that but I should've said people want him to fail because there was a lot of frustration about Arsenal signing him.

Also now that I think about it, do people really hope for opposition players to fail? I generally spend my time hoping for Arsenal to get better rather than other teams getting worse.
 
Archie Leach said:
You're right about that but I should've said people want him to fail because there was a lot of frustration about Arsenal signing him.

Also now that I think about it, do people really hope for opposition players to fail? I generally spend my time hoping for Arsenal to get better rather than other teams getting worse.
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Na, i dont think there's frustration about it being Arsenal that got him. Its better you got him rather than the likes of City or Chelsea. But ofcourse, there are posters who believe we should have gone after him.

Regarding the 2nd bit, well, seeing as you are right up there fighting for the title, yeah, your key players not playing well would be great for us. I want us to get better ofcourse but its always a help if rivals feck up. Long term though, it has to be us getting better rather than just hoping class players in rival teams dont perform. This season though, if we are to get close to winning the title, we'l need all the help we can get.
 
I'm frustrated, they've signed an incredible player. He may go missing in big games and has taken a bit of a dip in form, but there's no doubting he will be brilliant for them.
 
Archie Leach said:
I get the feeling a few on here want Ozil to fail.
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I've always been a fan of his talents, and while I want arsenal to not do well, if there's a player I don't mind doing well at arsenal (amidst the teams epic collapse of course), it's ozil.
 
I was a bit frustrated when arsenal got him but that's changed since Januzaj burst in the scene. Don't care much now.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I've always been a fan of his talents, and while I want arsenal to not do well, if there's a player I don't mind doing well at arsenal (amidst the teams epic collapse of course), it's ozil.
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I get a bit excited when a really great talent comes to the Premier League, to see what they can do. I last felt that way when Hazard signed for Chelsea.
 
Archie Leach said:
I get a bit excited when a really great talent comes to the Premier League, to see what they can do. I last felt that way when Hazard signed for Chelsea.
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I don't to be honest. I can watch them in other leagues anyway, but when they play for a rival they can hurt united.
 
Archie Leach said:
Maybe a downside to being on top all the time; constantly looking in your rearview mirror.
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Isn't that the case with most clubs in the upper echelons of the table, though? Arsenal were constantly looking in the rear view mirror at spurs and Liverpool most of the time.
 
gasmanc said:
Yea, as is Bales fee the others are seemingly more reasonable given the market values, Fellaini is not up for debate, too much full stop.
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How is 30m and 28m for Willian and Lamela respectively more reasonable than 42m for Özil? Özil is significantly better than either of them. A supremely talented and proven world-class player with his peak years still ahead of him.
 
Archie Leach said:
I get the feeling a few on here want Ozil to fail.
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Only natural with an opposition player, don't you think?

Big reason I'd like him to fail is to prove my own fans wrong too, the number of them pining to sign him and complaining that we didn't get rid of Rooney and get him was annoying. I still maintain Rooney is the better player but that's another debate.
 
I never want individual players to fail, but I want the teams to fail. Unless it's Patrice Evra, in which case I actually hope the individual fails more than the team.
 
alastair said:
I never want individual players to fail, but I want the teams to fail. Unless it's Patrice Evra, in which case I actually hope the individual fails more than the team.
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I should like both to sink at the same rapid pace.
 
alastair said:
I never want individual players to fail, but I want the teams to fail. Unless it's Patrice Evra, in which case I actually hope the individual fails more than the team.
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Why is that? He was right about your team not being good enough over the years. The time your lot actually put up a fight, he said "this was a different arsenal" so he's been fair too.

Also, out of curiosity, why not Suarez instead?
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Why is that? He was right about your team not being good enough over the years. The time your lot actually put up a fight, he said "this was a different arsenal" so he's been fair too.

Also, out of curiosity, why not Suarez instead?
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He's just disrespectful.

I don't see what Suarez has got to do with it either.
 
alastair said:
He's just disrespectful.

I don't see what Suarez has got to do with it either.
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Because the one player you want to badly is "disrespectful" (known ring a bell?) rather than the guy who is racist, diver, biter, cheat etc.

Or is the view towards Suarez positive because your manager warns to sign him?
 
Only Ramsey has covered more distance than him for us in the CL, covers around 10.8km per game. I think like with most players the Winter period might hit him hard so we need to make sure we manage his fitness correctly. He didn't finish games for R.Madrid and had a winter break so we need to make sure we ease him in to the more harsher nature here than throw him in the deep end!

Archie Leach said:
I get the feeling a few on here want Ozil to fail.
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Not surprising, also they want to come here and gloat every time he has a poor game. Personally can't see the point in that, all a bit childish really.
 
crappycraperson said:
United fans jumping to judge Ozil makes even less sense when you consider how Felliani has started for us
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I don't see how that's relevant or why it needs to be taken into consideration when giving an opinion. Is every supporter of a team in the bottom half not allowed to pass judgement on the teams in the top half then?

Not that I agree or disagree with the point people are making about Ozil. In the same way there's no need to bring an Arsenal player up if they're giving their opinion on a United player.
 
Ainu said:
How is 30m and 28m for Willian and Lamela respectively more reasonable than 42m for Özil? Özil is significantly better than either of them. A supremely talented and proven world-class player with his peak years still ahead of him.
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12-14m is an immense amount of money and he could well prove to be worth every extra penny but he does hail from Madrid with a reputation of suspect consistency, I have seen little early on to disprove that theory so my thinking is that the fee is still debatable. I didn't mention either of the other players but Willian looks more than decent and yes you could still debate that fee, the only thought I have is that 30 million seems to get you players of that calibre and when you move to 40-50m you want that extra step up in quality as Ozil seems to be but if he proves to be inconsistent as touted then it's open for discussion, he does look underwhelming in front of goal too and the way he hit that penalty last night was more than shite.
 
gasmanc said:
12-14m is an immense amount of money and he could well prove to be worth every extra penny but he does hail from Madrid with a reputation of suspect consistency, I have seen little early on to disprove that theory so my thinking is that the fee is still debatable. I didn't mention either of the other players but Willian looks more than decent and yes you could still debate that fee, the only thought I have is that 30 million seems to get you players of that calibre and when you move to 40-50m you want that extra step up in quality as Ozil seems to be but if he proves to be inconsistent as touted then it's open for discussion, he does look underwhelming in front of goal too and the way he hit that penalty last night was more than shite.
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Seems to be? There's no doubt he is! He may have been inconsistent by Ronaldo and Messi standards, but he's still racked up the assists. He's been a very productive player Real during his years there.
 
Ainu said:
Seems to be? There's no doubt he is! He may have been inconsistent by Ronaldo and Messi standards, but he's still racked up the assists. He's been a very productive player Real during his years there.
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Fair enough mate, I am in no way doubting the lads ability, he's an amazing player, 42 millions of amazing will be answered in seasons to come. No doubt the discussion would be open it being a United player of such value but we've yet to break our 30m ceiling to date :(
 
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