Moyes So Far!

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Started out with an absolutely horrendous transfer window. Managed to make himself look clueless from the off. Then, within 5 games we have lost to two of our most bitter rivals and played (with the exception of the Leverkusen game) some pretty fecking dire football. We look pathetic going forward and are playing wingers that have no desire to press on and be actual wingers.
Don't know what he is trying to achieve with our type of play but it is failing massively. I think we are now top of the league for long passes, which itself is beyond shit.
I know it's early and I was keen to see him appointed but for anyone saying they are not worried is massively fecked up.
This is not a 'Moyes Out' rant, but the rant of an increasingly worried red.
 
I have to say yesterday was quite worrying. I can't remember the last time we looked so hopeless against an opposition, we were absolutely atrocious, and you can't even single out one or two players to scapegoat.

Hopefully Moyes has learned a few lessons here.
 
RedRossi said:
Reading through this thread and everyone has a right to be angry about how things have gone so far.

- starting in July
- the transfer window
- the excuses
- the stupid interviews
- the negative tactics
- the damage limitation job today with Cleverley coming on
- The signing of Felliani and the manner it was done in
- The performances
- Team selections
- Learning on the job

It's perfectly understandable. We all know following SAF was going to be tough for anyone that came in. However, I never wanted Moyes. I've always thought he's a second rate manager, who got a Preston team promoted and made Everton a solid team in the league. It's nothing to write home about. Considering Fergie had broke up the Old Firm dominance and won a European cup, against Madrid with fecking Aberdeen at the age of 46.
I am all for giving him time to bed in and make his own mark and I hope to God for our sake and his, he turns out to be a success. But so far, things haven't been acceptable and not one United fan can tell me otherwise.
How the champions of England can turn in performances such as these this season so far, is beyond me.

One thing that does bother me quite a bit is Phil Neville. . . Now, I love Phil Neville to death but he's a first team coach, also learning his trade. If you were RVP, Evra, Nani or one of the senior players who has won everything, could you take him seriously after working with the likes of CQ and RM? He's also learning his trade and I'm not having a pop at him or criticising the guy at all

The scary thing is some of you are talking about just finishing in the top 4..Or worse, outside it...Finishing anywhere outside the top 3, top 2 and not challenging for the league would be an utter disaster! We're the champions! Not Spurs!
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Can't argue with anything you've said there.

If we don't make the top 4 this year, he'll be gone. The Glazers are businessmen, they'd rather take the payoff hit than lose millions of pounds in revenue from commercial partnerships.
 
He does not inspire people when he speaks so maybe he does not inspire the players. The RVP/Rooney comment pre-season was crass and to blame the fixture list yesterday was cringe-worthy. Fergie is a very intelligent man and he knows how to manipulate and motivate as well as being a football legend. Moyes may be a good coach but he is not in Fergies league in other departments.

The only good thing is that Fergies reputation is at stake here too so he won't keep quiet for ever. And it's early days.
 
There has been an air of unreality for me ever since Fergie left. I can't help feeling maybe the players feel it too. Something has to happen to make this Moyes's team and make the players want to play for him. I don't want to paper over the cracks that were quite obvious against city but something has to happen to bond these players and Moyes. Perhaps they might even need to develop a bunker mentality and I'm sure no-one will want to repeat how they must have felt after yesterday's game and just maybe this could be the point where people get serious for better or for worst.
 
RedRossi said:
"Every manager has bad results. I am no different. I haven't even thought about Liverpool on Wednesday!"

Now that......That is worrying
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You're a fecking retard. You're absolutely desperate for us to fail aren't you. How about you stop being a moaning cnut and get behind your team? I'm sick of people putting a negative slant on everything that happens.
 
Rednails said:
He does not inspire people when he speaks so maybe he does not inspire the players. The RVP/Rooney comment pre-season was crass and to blame the fixture list yesterday was cringe-worthy. Fergie is a very intelligent man and he knows how to manipulate and motivate as well as being a football legend. Moyes may be a good coach but he is not in Fergies league in other departments.

The only good thing is that Fergies reputation is at stake here too so he won't keep quiet for ever. And it's early days.
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Yeah you're right, Fergie is an intelligent man. He's too smart to begin questioning Moyes already.
 
Moyes is coaching scared in my opinion, especially when it comes to rivals. The fact we have played three out of our four rivals in the first five games highlights this. My biggest concern was the month of June, it seems like Moyes and Woodward did little or no preparation from what we have been told about the acquisition of players. That in itself has been endemic of his reign so far, the fact that he seems to be to ready with the excuses shows that he has been playing catch up since July 1st.

As for team selection its seems that in Nani, Kagawa and Hernandez we have three game changers but also three players who are not known for their tracking back.
Their constant absences and his excuse that he hasn't seen them train or play enough is a huge indicator that he is coaching scared because he wants to defend first and foremost. Doing this leads to the lack of creativity and lack of goals from open play, it also invites teams who are strong like City to pick us apart which they did do yesterday.

I am still unsure whether yesterdays hammering will spark him into action because he seems like a stubborn man and will still probably rely on wingers who can track back and leaving more creative players on the bench. When you think of the game changing talent thats in Nani, Kagawa and Hernandez and the undoubted talent and unpredictability of Zaha and Januzaj and the fact that all of them half a sum of 45 minutes game time in the league is all the proof you need that Moyes right now cannot handle attacking talents who don't tend to track back.

One of two things will happen, he will either realize he isnt at Everton anymore and he cannot play scared and defensive OR results will not be what is expected and his reign will be short. Honestly as it stands I am not confident that he has faith in a more attacking setup and it doesn't bode well for a successful season.
 
Rednails said:
He does not inspire people when he speaks so maybe he does not inspire the players. The RVP/Rooney comment pre-season was crass and to blame the fixture list yesterday was cringe-worthy. Fergie is a very intelligent man and he knows how to manipulate and motivate as well as being a football legend. Moyes may be a good coach but he is not in Fergies league in other departments.

The only good thing is that Fergies reputation is at stake here too so he won't keep quiet for ever. And it's early days.
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I just keep wondering what it must be like for Vidic, or Rio, or RVP to go from the greatest winner and the greatest manager of all time shouting and screaming in your face, to having David Moyes shouting at you... a man who, for all his merits, hasn't won anything.

We'd all like to say that it's the same, and has the same effect on the players... but it surely cannot elicit the same response.

Of course, that could be total nonsense.
 
pocco said:
You're a fecking retard. You're absolutely desperate for us to fail aren't you. How about you stop being a moaning cnut and get behind your team? I'm sick of people putting a negative slant on everything that happens.
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Go and eat my arse would you :lol:

"Desperate for us to fail"....Yeah course I am. I'd love it if my team failed...Jesus Christ :lol:
 
I've spent all the time since he's taken over defending him to the hilt to my friends, saying he'll come good in the end but I have to say, looking at his reign objectively - hasn't been impressive in the slightest and he's pretty much done everything I disagree with.. i.e. selecting Valencia and Young, which I can't stand.. marginalising the likes of Kagawa and Nani... players who might not come good in the end but are least worthy of attempting to integrate within the side as they may be key players..'potential' being the operative word and 'talent' also.

Midfield and 4-4-2... another area in which I presumed he'd do away with or resolve, buying in posession players and also bite... again he's not really addressed this and Fellaini at the moment seems to not be that type of player (seems kinda lazy - surely if you've managed him for that long, you'd know pretty damn well if he has the personal qualities to play in defensive midfield etc).

Taking these factors into account, it is looking pretty bleak right now but I just hope he has an epiphany and gets it together... he's always been a battler, this is a different stage.. he has to embrace a more cavalier, be offensive strategy. If he is going to be a managerial great, he'll adapt - we have to have faith, but at the same time I must admit my confidence in him has been shaken a little... I hope its just part of a master strategy where he doesn't want to reveal his hand i.e his best team while they're still undercooked and also he might prefer the fact that we've not hit the road running so expectations are dampened and he can get on with his job with no insane expectations.

For the life of me if he is going to be a success, his judgement can't be that bad where he actually thinks the likes of Valencia and Young are better than the other wingers we have here... i'm praying its just a fitness issue that is involved, because if it was a tactical vision and he believed they were the key to success, we're fecked as it'd prove he can't read the game at a very high level tactically.
 
Dreaded said:
Lots of spoiled fans with completely unrealistic expectations in here
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What's unrealistic about expecting my team to compete on the pitch against our local rivals? Our tactics yesterday were setup to avoid defeat like we are some mid-table club. We are fecking Manchester United. That performance, the way we were setup and the lack of ambition to change things from our manager was completely unacceptable. He looks like he is out of his depth.

You tell me how that makes me spoiled? Of course I accept there is going to be a period of transition but yesterday was shocking. The players are not exempt from blame, but leaving it until we are 4-0 down before changing things is not good enough.

If he perseveres with this negative mentality he will not last in the job.
 
I'm sure SAF would've had some things to say about the fixture list (even if this was just to distract from something else).
 
I think he's made a mistake playing Vidic and Rio in every game. Rio's form has dipped quite noticeably and he needs a break. Evans hasn't played a single minute of football for us yet and he's fecking class.
 
stand_free said:
What's unrealistic about expecting my team to compete on the pitch against our local rivals? Our tactics yesterday were setup to avoid defeat like we are some mid-table club. We are fecking Manchester United. That performance, the way we were setup and the lack of ambition to change things from our manager was completely unacceptable. He looks like he is out of his depth.

You tell me how that makes me spoiled? Of course I accept there is going to be a period of transition but yesterday was shocking. The players are not exempt from blame, but leaving it until we are 4-0 down before changing things is not good enough.

If he perseveres with this negative mentality he will not last in the job.
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It's a worry that some fans seem to be accepting mediocrity. With our history, fanbase and the money we rake in our team should be one of the best in Europe. We're a long way away from them at the moment.
 
SteveJ said:
I'm sure SAF would've had some things to say about the fixture list (even if this was just to distract from something else).
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Oh yeah - he would've been fuming. SAF didn't think twice about dropping a few hints about the possible corruptness of the authorities. What was "classic SAF" and mind games and whatnot seems to be embarrassing when Moyes is the one to volunteer it. In one sense this is fair enough - because SAF had undoubtedly earned the right to talk as crazily as he pleased. But my feeling right now is that too many are having a go at Moyes, looking for flaws, just picking on him - and engaging in general doom mongering to an unnecessary extent.
 
Solius said:
I think he's made a mistake playing Vidic and Rio in every game. Rio's form has dipped quite noticeably and he needs a break. Evans hasn't played a single minute of football for us yet and he's fecking class.
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Moyes is obviously playing it safe because of the fixtures he's been handed early in the season and the fact that he's in a new position that's under severe scrutiny by everyone. Maybe he prefers to stick with what he thinks works (the senior and regular players) and as the season goes by, add a few new ones to rotate and find his right squad. Most of the stuff I've seen about Moyes after yesterday's game was a bit ridiculous and I honestly think most of your fans/supporters need to take a step back and realize that you're all still a lucky bunch of folks.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Oh yeah - he would've been fuming. SAF didn't think twice about dropping a few hints about the possible corruptness of the authorities. What was "classic SAF" and mind games and whatnot seems to be embarrassing when Moyes is the one to volunteer it. In one sense this is fair enough - because SAF had undoubtedly earned the right to talk as crazily as he pleased. But my feeling right now is that too many are having a go at Moyes, looking for flaws, just picking on him - and engaging in general doom mongering to an unnecessary extent.
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There's a lot who didn't want Moyes in the first place (me included) who will be hyper-critical of anything perceived as a mistake. Losing 1-4 to City smarts and Moyes didn't do a whole lot during the match to try and change the game. Fellaini looked to me as if he was operating without any type of instructions from the bench. The biggest complaint though is the abject lack of any business during the transfer window. City, Chelsea, Spurs, and Liverpool all took stock of last season early and went out and got who they thought would improve their squads. We had a lot of bluster about a limitless budget and Ed Woodward fecking about around the globe running up his air miles.
 
Yesterday there was a shot of him sitting on the bench when we were 4-0 down, shoulders hunched, legs crossed, rubbing his chin. Said a lot for me. Fergie would have been defiant and mad with his body language, ready to go against the world. He needs to start proving that he's up for this level of football and fast.
 
RedRossi said:
Go and eat my arse would you :lol:

"Desperate for us to fail"....Yeah course I am. I'd love it if my team failed...Jesus Christ :lol:
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You're just looking for anything to criticise. It's fecking tedious.

'Oh guys, Moyes just said he's not sure what team he'll pick for the next game. That's a bad sign surely. I don't think he can handle this job. Blah, blah, blah'
 
He needs time to show his impact on the team but i'm a little worried.

It's not good that we've failed in all our matches against our rivals, i was hoping he'd get at least a win over mourinho to ease any doubts about him but it didn't work out, we've been too negative and he seems to value power over flair all the time, early days but i was hoping for a better start from him and it didn't happen, now the pressure on him will be relentless, still i expect us to put a decent challenge on all fronts this season, chelsea and city have new managers as well and we have a squad of champions really so we shouldn't be far behind anyone.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Oh yeah - he would've been fuming. SAF didn't think twice about dropping a few hints about the possible corruptness of the authorities. What was "classic SAF" and mind games and whatnot seems to be embarrassing when Moyes is the one to volunteer it. In one sense this is fair enough - because SAF had undoubtedly earned the right to talk as crazily as he pleased. But my feeling right now is that too many are having a go at Moyes, looking for flaws, just picking on him - and engaging in general doom mongering to an unnecessary extent.
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It's weird how we expect Sir Alex to moan about what he says as an injustice, when David Moyes does it, he just making excuses.
 
His lack of any kind of a plan B and his inability to make blatantly needed changes is worrying. He doesn't seem to see what everyone else can.
 
Here's another thought. What could have been a game for him to try out the youngsters/bed in unfit players with slightly less pressure (against liverpool this wednesday), has now turned into must-not-lose game for him. I cannot imagine just how the press and fans will be hounding him if he loses against Liverpool this Wednesday. And that's a situation he's put himself in with his uninspiring team selections.
 
Moriarty said:
There's a lot who didn't want Moyes in the first place (me included) who will be hyper-critical of anything perceived as a mistake. Losing 1-4 to City smarts and Moyes didn't do a whole lot during the match to try and change the game. Fellaini looked to me as if he was operating without any type of instructions from the bench. The biggest complaint though is the abject lack of any business during the transfer window. City, Chelsea, Spurs, and Liverpool all took stock of last season early and went out and got who they thought would improve their squads. We had a lot of bluster about a limitless budget and Ed Woodward fecking about around the globe running up his air miles.
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That is perfectly understandable and I have no issue with this as long as it's within reason. It's just that much of the stuff I've heard from fellow fans since yesterday has been quite shocking. My instinct is to get behind the man rather than lashing out at him - but then I did approve of the appointment at the time. That's just my opinion, however, I accept that others felt differently - and I understand that they will be less lenient with the man than I am. It's the volume of what I consider to be perfectly unreasonable, hysterical outrage that I find a bit unsettling.
 
Freak said:
Yesterday there was a shot of him sitting on the bench when we were 4-0 down, shoulders hunched, legs crossed, rubbing his chin. Said a lot for me. Fergie would have been defiant and mad with his body language, ready to go against the world. He needs to start proving that he's up for this level of football and fast.
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We are moaning about the lack of subs, but how often did we all moan when Sir Alex left it late to change things. It needed changing at half time. Once we were 4-0 down it was too late. Might as well make the culprits suffer a bit more for their inadequacies. That late on making all three subs would have sod all difference. The only thing that seriously bothered me was not this game, it may have been a serious off day. It was the Liverpool and Chelsea games when we could have got more out of the game with the right changes. We need to be braver.
 
Freak said:
Here's another thought. What could have been a game for him to try out the youngsters/bed in unfit players with slightly less pressure (against liverpool this wednesday), has now turned into must-not-lose game for him. I cannot imagine just how the press and fans will be hounding him if he loses against Liverpool this Wednesday. And that's a situation he's put himself in with his uninspiring team selections.
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To be fair, if he plays Evans, Fabio, Nani, Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Hernandez etc. and loses, I imagine people will be much more leniant with their criticisms, and comend him for at least trying different players.

If he Young/Valencia/Rio etc. and loses, that backlash would be much, much worse.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
That is perfectly understandable and I have no issue with this as long as it's within reason. It's just that much of the stuff I've heard from fellow fans since yesterday has been quite shocking. My instinct is to get behind the man rather than lashing out at him - but then I did approve of the appointment at the time. That's just my opinion, however, I accept that others felt differently - and I understand that they will be less lenient with the man than I am. It's the volume of what I consider to be perfectly unreasonable, hysterical outrage that I find a bit unsettling.
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We should all realise that it may take time for Moyes to settle in, but the transfer window shenanigans did not do the poor fella any favours. The board should have realised that this was the big window for him and gone all out to get a top class midfielder. Not mess about making ridiculous undervalue bids.
 
We need less more 'Perspective' threads.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
To be fair, if he plays Evans, Fabio, Nani, Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Hernandez etc. and loses, I imagine people will be much more leniant with their criticisms, and comend him for at least trying different players.

If he Young/Valencia/Rio etc. and loses, that backlash would be much, much worse.
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There will still be some who moan. I wouldn't because I want to see kids given a chance and the others are good players who have not had a fair crack of the whip yet for one reason or another.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Oh yeah - he would've been fuming. SAF didn't think twice about dropping a few hints about the possible corruptness of the authorities. What was "classic SAF" and mind games and whatnot seems to be embarrassing when Moyes is the one to volunteer it. In one sense this is fair enough - because SAF had undoubtedly earned the right to talk as crazily as he pleased. But my feeling right now is that too many are having a go at Moyes, looking for flaws, just picking on him - and engaging in general doom mongering to an unnecessary extent.
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Moyes doesn't have the same conviction when he says things though...SAF could have said the FA are Nazis and people would have had to double check...with Moyes it'd be, 'Er, you what mate?'
 
There's a glaring difference between a serial winner like SAF and a rubbish loser like Moyes:

SAF: "I'm delighted with this win." (translation: "I'm delighted with this win.")
Moyes: "I'm delighted with this win." (translation: "I'm in shock - I thought we'd lose twenty-nil.")
 
DomesticTadpole said:
We are moaning about the lack of subs, but how often did we all moan when Sir Alex left it late to change things. It needed changing at half time. Once we were 4-0 down it was too late. Might as well make the culprits suffer a bit more for their inadequacies. That late on making all three subs would have sod all difference. The only thing that seriously bothered me was not this game, it may have been a serious off day. It was the Liverpool and Chelsea games when we could have got more out of the game with the right changes. We need to be braver.
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The match was already gone. Why not give some of the players who need match practice a run out? You're right though, City were phenomenal yesterday. It was the Liverpool and Chelsea game that we should have done better in and be more positive.
 
SteveJ said:
There's a glaring difference between a serial winner like SAF and a rubbish loser like Moyes:

SAF: "I'm delighted with this win." (translation: "I'm delighted with this win.")
Moyes: "I'm delighted with this win." (translation: "I'm in shock - I thought we'd lose twenty-nil.")
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:lol: It took a while for Sir Alex to gain that sort of confidence, even arrogance. Moyes doesn't have that yet and he is still finding his feet. He will eventually be just as Bolshie as Fergie.
 
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