Moyes So Far!

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pocco said:
You're just looking for anything to criticise. It's fecking tedious.

'Oh guys, Moyes just said he's not sure what team he'll pick for the next game. That's a bad sign surely. I don't think he can handle this job. Blah, blah, blah'
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How am I looking for any excuse to criticise?

- He had a shit transfer window and himself and Woodword made us look like goons
- 1 pt taken from City, Liverpool and Chelsea with 1 goal scored.
- Static performances
- Negative tactics
- Stupid excuses regarding performances and transfers
- Stupid comments about fixtures

I dare you to tell me that none of that doesn't warrant criticism...
In regards the Liverpool match, he said he hasn't even thought about it. Which is insane as our ex manager had afforded us the initiative of planning ahead.
I never said he can't handle it and I said I hope he succeeds and that I'll support him. What more do you fecking want?!?!?!
Me, Hectic and all the lads to smear "Moyes is God" with our own shit on a wall in Salford?!?!

He's manager of Manchester United, taken over from SAF. He's going to be open to criticism no matter what he does! Especially after the way it's gone so far. People go on about how Fergie was given time when he came here....Thats because we were a Giant who got lazy and decided to have a kip for a few decades. Moyes is different...He's after inheriting a global colossus, whose cup final every year is not playing Liverpool at Old Trafford!

Tedious my arse...It's the truth!
He'll be giving time and all the support in the world, but he needs to learn...And learn bloody fast or else he will be doing himself no favours. Do you think I'm the only one who thinks this?? Have a look through this thread!
 
RedRossi said:
How am I looking for any excuse to criticise?

- He had a shit transfer window and himself and Woodword made us look like goons
- 1 pt taken from City, Liverpool and Chelsea with 1 goal scored.
- Static performances
- Negative tactics
- Stupid excuses regarding performances and transfers
- Stupid comments about fixtures

I dare you to tell me that none of that doesn't warrant criticism...
In regards the Liverpool match, he said he hasn't even thought about it. Which is insane as our ex manager had afforded us the initiative of planning ahead.
I never said he can't handle it and I said I hope he succeeds and that I'll support him. What more do you fecking want?!?!?!
Me, Hectic and all the lads to smear "Moyes is God" with our own shit on a wall in Salford?!?!

He's manager of Manchester United, taken over from SAF. He's going to be open to criticism no matter what he does! Especially after the way it's gone so far. People go on about how Fergie was given time when he came here....Thats because we were a Giant who got lazy and decided to have a kip for a few decades. Moyes is different...He's after inheriting a global colossus, whose cup final every year is not playing Liverpool at Old Trafford!

Tedious my arse...It's the truth!
He'll be giving time and all the support in the world, but he needs to learn...And learn bloody fast or else he will be doing himself no favours. Do you think I'm the only one who thinks this?? Have a look through this thread!
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That is really the point, he will get time and that is right, but if he doesn't learn quickly what is expected from a Manchester United manager it will be a big problem.
 
Can you just imagine if he puts a weak side out on Wednesday and says the Carling Cup is not a priority. :eek: I think he has to realise that it might not be a priority for Manchester United, but it has to be a priority for David Moyes.
 
RedRossi said:
Exactly.... And I can't help if I am a little worried so far by all this.
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He has to be adaptable. We seem to have an obsession with 4-4-2, but that is outdated and you need seriously good wide men to play it. The fans expect attractive quick attacking football, it has been ponderous for a number of years. You don't necessarily have to play 4-4-2 to get that. When was the last time this team had fans on their feet with excitement. That's when your allowed to stand up that is. Maybe that's the cunning plan, don't upset health and safety, just play football that keeps the fans seated.
 
Yesterday's line up and formation were the first thing I'd be critical of since he took over.

442 away to City with your best striker injured and a new player in the centre of midfield always looked dodgy to me.

I'm not Youngs biggest fan, although I do think he serves a purpose, just not away to teams like City from the start.

Did anyone think that Moyes wouldn't need to learn any lessons coming to Utd? I'd say he learned a few yesterday.

It was a bad performance all round, and against one of the worst possible opponents, but it's only 1 game.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
He has to be adaptable. We seem to have an obsession with 4-4-2, but that is outdated and you need seriously good wide men to play it. The fans expect attractive quick attacking football, it has been ponderous for a number of years. You don't necessarily have to play 4-4-2 to get that. When was the last time this team had fans on their feet with excitement. That's when your allowed to stand up that is. Maybe that's the cunning plan, don't upset health and safety, just play football that keeps the fans seated.
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Always thinking of our health and safety...Good on ye Moyesy :drool:

But seriously, 4-4-2 is not something you have to play for quick, attacking football. 4-2-3-1 is something I'd love to see. Especially with Nani and Kagawa's ability to interchange and Rooney's ability to drop deeper to create something...But thats for another day and another thread.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
That is really the point, he will get time and that is right, but if he doesn't learn quickly what is expected from a Manchester United manager it will be a big problem.
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This.

RedRossi said:
Exactly.... And I can't help if I am a little worried so far by all this.
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Likewise.

After our pitiful display at Anfield you would have thought Moyes might change his approach, especially after he brought on Hernandez and Nani at half time against Liverpool making us infinitely more potent than we had been previously.

Eyepopper said:
Yesterday's line up and formation were the first thing I'd be critical of since he took over.

442 away to City with your best striker injured and a new player in the centre of midfield always looked dodgy to me.

I'm not Youngs biggest fan, although I do think he serves a purpose, just not away to teams like City from the start.

Did anyone think that Moyes wouldn't need to learn any lessons coming to Utd? I'd say he learned a few yesterday.

It was a bad performance all round, and against one of the worst possible opponents, but it's only 1 game.
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Really? No lessons seemed to have been learned from our loss at Liverpool. It is like the last half an hour at Anfield didn't happen. Moyes has forgotten how Nani was able almost at will beat his man and started to get shots off etc. Moyes has forgotten how Chico created the best chance of that game for RVP. Instead, in yesterday's match we were back to the front four who did sweet F.A. against Liverpool (with one change, RVP for Rooney): Preferring hard running to creativity, talent and game changing quality.

Again, its not the loss that is concerning, its the manner of the loss. We seem to be repeating the same mistakes that were obvious even in the Chelsea game and Moyes is stubbornly refusing to change. His plan B yesterday was to switch Cleverley for Young, push Welbeck wide and play Fellaini off Rooney. Fellaini off Rooney, I thought he was bought as a midfielder..? :rolleyes:
 
Chesterlestreet said:
That is perfectly understandable and I have no issue with this as long as it's within reason. It's just that much of the stuff I've heard from fellow fans since yesterday has been quite shocking. My instinct is to get behind the man rather than lashing out at him - but then I did approve of the appointment at the time. That's just my opinion, however, I accept that others felt differently - and I understand that they will be less lenient with the man than I am. It's the volume of what I consider to be perfectly unreasonable, hysterical outrage that I find a bit unsettling.
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It's all a bit subjective mate and makes for good conversation. To me, his appointment felt a bit like stepping back in time to when O'Farrell was appointed; a manager who had done all right with Leicester and whose only real achievement as a manager was to lose a cup final to City. Moyes has a similar track record so you can see where the comparison is coming from.

I suppose the time to judge Moyes will be next May, or maybe next September after the transfer window shuts again. He may do a bit of business come January but probably not unless we're struggling with injuries or poor form between now and then. I agree that some of the remarks have been way OTT but to those of us who've been down this road before, and remember the shambles we became post Busby, there's a real fear of history repeating itself. I can't honestly see that scenario playing out again to such an extent as it did, as there's far too much at stake in 2013 than there was in 1970/71. Fergie won't let it happen, and the Glazers won't let it happen. I hope.
 
Quite simply, if he perseveres with the negative tactics and reluctance to change things when it's not working then he will not last in the job. Regardless of a 6 year contract and the backing of SAF, if results dictate he will be out the door.
 
Moriarty said:
It's all a bit subjective mate and makes for good conversation. To me, his appointment felt a bit like stepping back in time to when O'Farrell was appointed; a manager who had done all right with Leicester and whose only real achievement as a manager was to lose a cup final to City. Moyes has a similar track record so you can see where the comparison is coming from.

I suppose the time to judge Moyes will be next May, or maybe next September after the transfer window shuts again. He may do a bit of business come January but probably not unless we're struggling with injuries or poor form between now and then. I agree that some of the remarks have been way OTT but to those of us who've been down this road before, and remember the shambles we became post Busby, there's a real fear of history repeating itself. I can't honestly see that scenario playing out again to such an extent as it did, as there's far too much at stake in 2013 than there was in 1970/71. Fergie won't let it happen, and the Glazers won't let it happen. I hope.
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Absolutely. That took place just before yours truly was born but I've spent many an hour listening to my uncles go on about those times. O'Farrell was, as I recall, considered a competent man, albeit dull in terms of playing style - and to me that seems like a bad choice for United at the time, given our reputation for flair football. Sexton was even worse in that respect, I suppose. He was certainly not popular in my family, as I recall it - I remember Big Ron being appointed, although I don't think I quite understood what this whole manager thing was about. It was just about players for me, being a mere kid.

Anyway, I do see where you're coming from. Legendary manager, hell of a character, a born winner - being replaced by Dave Moyes. I don't blame you for thinking of O'Farrell. The huge difference, though, and the main reason why I was pleased when it turned out to be him, is obviously that he is Fergie's choice, someone he - arguably the greatest manager of them all - has chosen over the likes of Mourinho and who knows who else. I don't think Fergie would've picked O'Farrell, to put it like that. I think he chose Moyes because he has something, an unleashed potential. What many have said regarding this, albeit saying it as though it was a bad thing, sums it up for me: Of all the people we could've offered the job - proven winners, people with immaculate CVs - we gave it to Moyes. On Fergie's recommendation. That has to mean something.
 
I don't think you can really blame Moyes at the moment. I feel we have been lacklustre too many many times over the last couple of years. Whether thats lack of hunger or what, who knows. I thought to myself at the start of the season that, I would grudgingly accept not winning the title and coming third at least if it means blooding the younger players and giving Moyes the chance to really get to know the squad. I worried he would be too frightened/too much pressure from Glazers to do that.
That being said, its only 5 games in and as fickle as we are, a good win against Liverpool I am sure will change the minds of people again!
Sometimes you get so used to winning a big kick up the backside is needed.
 
I do wonder if Moyes' inexperience in Europe meant that our training methods didn't prepare the players well enough for Sunday's match.
 
sparky said:
I don't think you can really blame Moyes at the moment. I feel we have been lacklustre too many many times over the last couple of years. Whether thats lack of hunger or what, who knows. I thought to myself at the start of the season that, I would grudgingly accept not winning the title and coming third at least if it means blooding the younger players and giving Moyes the chance to really get to know the squad. I worried he would be too frightened/too much pressure from Glazers to do that.
That being said, its only 5 games in and as fickle as we are, a good win against Liverpool I am sure will change the minds of people again!
Sometimes you get so used to winning a big kick up the backside is needed.
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I can. We've seen in the past that when virtually the same team, with one or two alterations, is played match after match they become a little stale and tired. That's something which happens to other clubs because they have a limited number of quality players in their squad and so can't rotate their team very much, which is why they tend to spend the years languishing in the lower half of the table. We have a full squad of players good enough to play in our first team and sometimes good enough to change a game when they come on as subs too. The most Moyes seems to rotate is the bench and even then he doesn't make full use of his subs.
 
Sometimes you go onto the pitch and 'it' just isn't there. How much of this is down to preparation we have no way of knowing, but it was clear yesterday that many of our players were not on their game, whereas the difference in City's performance yesterday compared to the Stoke game was unbelievable. It just happens sometimes.

On our side we ticked all of the 'you're going to get thumped today' boxes. Sluggish start, high risk tactical strategy, concede goal just before half time, concede goal just after half time etc etc.

We have to be patient with Moyes though. He is going to learn a lot this season, and more so from yesterdays game than any other so far. Luckily we have a run of games now where he can bring other players in and experiment a little.
 
Bilbo said:
Sometimes you go onto the pitch and 'it' just isn't there. How much of this is down to preparation we have no way of knowing, but it was clear yesterday that many of our players were not on their game, whereas the difference in City's performance yesterday compared to the Stoke game was unbelievable. It just happens sometimes.

On our side we ticked all of the 'you're going to get thumped today' boxes. Sluggish start, high risk tactical strategy, concede goal just before half time, concede goal just after half time etc etc.

We have to be patient with Moyes though. He is going to learn a lot this season, and more so from yesterdays game than any other so far. Luckily we have a run of games now where he can bring other players in and experiment a little.
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Sane, but maybe a little too sane.
 
Red Defence said:
I can. We've seen in the past that when virtually the same team, with one or two alterations, is played match after match they become a little stale and tired. That's something which happens to other clubs because they have a limited number of quality players in their squad and so can't rotate their team very much, which is why they tend to spend the years languishing in the lower half of the table. We have a full squad of players good enough to play in our first team and sometimes good enough to change a game when they come on as subs too. The most Moyes seems to rotate is the bench and even then he doesn't make full use of his subs.
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Maybe, but I think we are struggling a bit with players? Or am I just hoping thats the case. I know Jones is out, whats happening with M. Keane? Was that Evans coming back from injury on the bench? I have put them in questions because I genuinely do not know. I was hoping for a tactical change sooner on Sunday and more subs but was disappointed! I just hope it changes before its too late.
 
Red Defence said:
I can. We've seen in the past that when virtually the same team, with one or two alterations, is played match after match they become a little stale and tired. That's something which happens to other clubs because they have a limited number of quality players in their squad and so can't rotate their team very much, which is why they tend to spend the years languishing in the lower half of the table. We have a full squad of players good enough to play in our first team and sometimes good enough to change a game when they come on as subs too. The most Moyes seems to rotate is the bench and even then he doesn't make full use of his subs.
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We just dont have the facts to really judge this though, do we? We aren't privy to the fitness levels of the players that we might want to see in the team.

Its going to be a really long and difficult season for supporters if we don't believe, as a starting point, that Moyes knows what he is doing.
 
sparky said:
Maybe, but I think we are struggling a bit with players? Or am I just hoping thats the case. I know Jones is out, whats happening with M. Keane? Was that Evans coming back from injury on the bench? I have put them in questions because I genuinely do not know. I was hoping for a tactical change sooner on Sunday and more subs but was disappointed! I just hope it changes before its too late.
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We are miles away from having to be concerned yet. Three points behind the two teams who are most likely going to win it if we don't, with four difficult fixtures out of the way already. I think and hope that we will see Moyes preferred team start to emerge now over the next couple of months.

Been a weird season so far. With the transfer window and Int'l breaks, it feels like we're only really just starting now. I think we underestimated how disruptive it would be for us to have drawn such a tough start to the league, and I think I see now why Moyes was so pissed off about it.
 
Bilbo said:
We just dont have the facts to really judge this though, do we? We aren't privy to the fitness levels of the players that we might want to see in the team.

Its going to be a really long and difficult season for supporters if we don't believe, as a starting point, that Moyes knows what he is doing.
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Not many fitness/injury worries according to Moyes the other day so I'm happy to go with that.

All the players seem to consider themselves fit and even if one or two aren't at peak fitness they might have been able to inject some much needed energy and fight into the team over the last few matches (BL excepted). They'll never be at peak fitness either if they don't get on the pitch and get some minutes under their belt.
 
Moriarty said:
his appointment felt a bit like stepping back in time to when O'Farrell was appointed; a manager who had done all right with Leicester and whose only real achievement as a manager was to lose a cup final to City. Moyes has a similar track record so you can see where the comparison is coming from.
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Apart from the fact that Busby didn't like O'Farrell, interfered in his professional and personal life, maintained very close relationships with senior players, and tried to get him on the cheap (which O'Farrell knew) and that Fergie hasn't done any of those things the situations are almost identical.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
I do wonder if Moyes' inexperience in Europe meant that our training methods didn't prepare the players well enough for Sunday's match.
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Not so much training methods as a lack of rotation. Fergie spent the last few years gambling massively in the group stages, and would almost certainly have put out a weaker team in the week. Moyes, on the other hand, gave the Leverkusen game priortity and in doing so delivered our best European result since Schalke.
 
Chabon said:
Not so much training methods as a lack of rotation. Fergie spent the last few years gambling massively in the group stages, and would almost certainly have put out a weaker team in the week. Moyes, on the other hand, gave the Leverkusen game priortity and in doing so delivered our best European result since Schalke.
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Yes, this is exactly the kind of thing I meant there.
 
To be fair, if Moyes were to deliver the kind of group stage that Fergie's gambling gave us two years ago there'd be widespread calls for his head. Getting a dicking off a rival isn't all that in the grand scheme of things, but pronounced failure in Europe would be a disaster for him.

Many won't be happy to hear it, but quarter finals in Europe and top three would be a great season for Moyes.
 
Chabon said:
To be fair, if Moyes were to deliver the kind of group stage that Fergie's gambling gave us two years ago there'd be widespread calls for his head. Getting a dicking off a rival isn't all that in the grand scheme of things, but pronounced failure in Europe would be a disaster for him.

Many won't be happy to hear it, but quarter finals in Europe and top three would be a great season for Moyes.
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You know, I believe many would be quite happy with that, in what is the biggest transition season since big Ron got the boot and Fergie was appointed
 
dev1l said:
for those with a short memory span and those who were not born just yet...

Fergie's worst defeats:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-Ferguson-and-what-happened-next.html?image=5
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Unfortunately many on here have short memories!

The worst for me was the 5-1 and the huge call for him to be sacked after that. I think Moyes and his back room staff, remember it does include a good number of ex Utd lads, will have learned from that and the next game will see a vastly different performance
 
Decent run in Europe, come third, have a handful of great victories, start actually playing all our potentially amazing u25s. I'd be happy enough.
 
Eyepopper said:
Apart from the fact that Busby didn't like O'Farrell, interfered in his professional and personal life, maintained very close relationships with senior players, and tried to get him on the cheap (which O'Farrell knew) and that Fergie hasn't done any of those things the situations are almost identical.
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Got nothing to do with it. I was comparing manager's track records prior to being hired by United. In that respect. O'Farrell and Moyes are pretty similar. Fergie won't do what Busby did; he's far too canny for that and he hand-picked Moyes. He won't do anything to put his job in jeopardy. I imagine that if any player went behind Moyes' back to Fergie, he'd end up with a flea in his ear.
 
Oh well I guess the main thing now is how moyes and united react to this. 3 big games with a similar bunch of issues, certainly including a lack of true creativity with young and Valencia being amongst those most responsible, and a few more errors in defence than we should be expecting.

Fergie was stubborn as well with the likes of Valencia an young last season and you only have to see their respective threads for that but at least he had the benefit of probably thinking they could ride through their rough patches etc. but it's been too prolonged now and more then that its clear we're limited in our attacking options when they both play. Moyes should have known about the two of them being off their game going in to this season, and he should certainly know it now.

So it's time to react, he's got a good few weeks until the next international break to really work with the players and he's got the players in nani and kagawa as well a Hernandez who can bring that cutting edge and variability to the attack. Fair play we don't know what sort of sharpness they're in but they can only get that from a run of games and a proper chance to build up so some momentum.
 
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