Moyes So Far!

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He needs something positive to go for him sooner rather than later.

No transfers, Rooney situation is messy as hell and pre season results and performances have been well below par.

Not the start I am certain he would have wanted and there is no point in glossing over that. If we had been on fire in pre season we would all be quite excited.

I think tomorrow is a big day and a win at wembley and lifting the shield will actually help a lot and perhaps settle a lot of jitters.
 
SilentWitness said:
4. Nobody honestly on this forum has a clue about what the transfers are. He knows who is best for the club, and he also has suceeded with a lot of the transfers we bought. Fellaini, success. Baines, success. Lescott, sold for a shit load. Jagielka, success. Arteta, success. Coleman who was bought for around 250k is becoming one of the best RB's in the league. The man isn't an idiot, which is why Fergie rated him.

Calm your tits till January.
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Well said. The bolded part is what is most poignant. About 90% of the clubs day to day dealings are done behind closed doors at the club. It's just amazing how many people think they know what it takes to manage on of the best clubs in the world. The vicarious feeling of control that fans think they have is utterly mind boggling at times.
 
I find pre-season a bit meaningless really. Tomorrow we'll see what his overall plans will be. Really the first five games of the season are just horrendous and they'll be a big early test.
 
ghaliboy said:
Well said. The bolded part is what is most poignant. About 90% of the clubs day to day dealings are done behind closed doors at the club. It's just amazing how many people think they know what it takes to manage on of the best clubs in the world. The vicarious feeling of control that fans think they have is utterly mind boggling at times.
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Indeed. In the Fabregas thread:

If they truly want Fabregas, and had encouragement, they should have asked Barcelona what they wanted for the player. If the money is there then cough up.
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And no white text.
 
Cina said:
I find pre-season a bit meaningless really. Tomorrow we'll see what his overall plans will be. Really the first five games of the season are just horrendous and they'll be a big early test.
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But would you not agree that promising form and results in pre season might have helped Moyes?

I had to go back to 2004 to find a pre season with results as dodgy as this years. And even then it was not quite so bad.

Hopefully it won't matter at all, but I can't imagine Moyes is overly happy himself with how things have gone so far.
 
I dont really care about the pre season results but the performances overall haven't been convincing. Off the field also seems to be a bit messed up with the lack of signings and the Rooney situation, we have a tough start to the season he needs to raise the team and generally bring in some optimism, it's been a shit summer all round.

Tomorrow is quite a big day, it's a meaningless cup but after this summer I think he will come in for some massive stick if we lose.
 
I feel a bit sorry for Moyes. This was never going to be an easy job to take with the pressure and media scrutiny. But the Rooney situation and the lack of signings has really made life difficult for him.

At this moment I'm not worried about him at all, and am just hoping the players get their heads out their backsides and play properly tomorrow to deliver his first trophy and give us a bit of momentum that we are sorely lacking.
 
The pre season matches, I don't care about. The Rooney situation, well, it's not his doing. But the one thing he has to get right is sorting out the midfield. It's such a glaring weakness, the heart of the team. Moyes obviously knows that, but I'm not sure what the transfer strategy was. Seems to have been a simple case of putting most eggs in one or two baskets. He knew he was the new manager three months ago so to get so close to the season without getting anything done is a worry. But then, there's more to transfers than the manager.
 
Randall Flagg said:
But would you not agree that promising form and results in pre season might have helped Moyes?

I had to go back to 2004 to find a pre season with results as dodgy as this years. And even then it was not quite so bad.

Hopefully it won't matter at all, but I can't imagine Moyes is overly happy himself with how things have gone so far.
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Oh it certainly hasn't helped, but pre-season is basically just a case of getting players fit and giving youngsters a chance to prove themselves nowadays rather than an overall basis for how the season itself will go. I also don't think it helps when the club have the players travelling all over the fecking world in order to play those games.
 
Randall Flagg said:
But would you not agree that promising form and results in pre season might have helped Moyes?

I had to go back to 2004 to find a pre season with results as dodgy as this years. And even then it was not quite so bad.

Hopefully it won't matter at all, but I can't imagine Moyes is overly happy himself with how things have gone so far.
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It hasn't been ideal but I honestly thing much of it has been out of his control.

We've had so many players, particularly senior ones unavailable. Nani, Rooney, Valencia, Kagawa, Young have barely featured due to injuries/international commitments, so thats the core of our chief creative players.

RVP has had some time but hasn't found his goal scoring touch, Hernandez hasn't been able to play and with Rooney out that's our 3 chief goal scorers as well.

So that's been a big problem for me that's cost us results and going in to the season is gonna make it a lot harder to start well, and imo those have been outside of Moyes's control. I think we would have always struggled in those circumstances.

Defensively you could argue that that's where it's been more questionable but again I feel there have been other elements to it. Smalling has come back but is clearly rusty having missed so much game time, Buttner and Fabio have had a fair bit of time, we've not see the first choice players that much. But still there could have been better defensive showings.

Midfield hasn't changed, when Carrick hasn't played we've looked easy to get past and that's not gonna change until the personnel change, obv though is hasn't been helped by the number of senior places missing around the team as possession has been harder.

On the plus side we've got to really get Zaha, Januzaj and Lingaard minutes, each looking like they have something to offer, not having the senior players available has let Moyes probably assess the squad players a bit more in depth than he would have been able to.

All in all I'd say it's clearly not been ideal but a lot of it has been out of his control. I think when we have settled there has been some nice pieces of play, some have commented that they think we're closing down quicker, not sure about that yet myself. However with the season just about to start, not having been able to field the senior players more often isn't great for bedding in a new manager with an already tough start. I think though although the press/other team fans will be getting on his back, we have to take a step back and acknowledge that there's been more conditions in play than simply Moyes taking over.
 
Preseason has been uninspiring, results don't matter but performances do and so far they all look a bit clueless, I can kind of understand it as most of these players are used to one way of training and playing an having a new manager is a complete foreign concept. This is where I would have thought keeping some of the back room staff would have helped but respect to Moyes for doing things his own way.

In saying all of that nothing can be judged yet. I get the feeling the media are just waiting for it all to go tits up which isn't nice but to be expected.

The community shield is a tricky one. I feel if we win we won't get any credit it was to be expected but if we lose or have a really poor performance the media and a few on here will have a field day.

I'm not even going to discuss transfers because it pisses me off how the summer is panning out. Needless to say if we end up with two Everton players I'll be very disappointed in our scouting network.
 
Randall Flagg said:
But would you not agree that promising form and results in pre season might have helped Moyes?
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That isn't really going out on a limb though? Any positive results will generate momentum and positivity. That is a no brainer.
A change of manager and lads getting used to playing in their new mould plus we take young lads on pre-season which is hardly ever talked about.
 
moses said:
The really shocking thing is that thus far it's not the media as much as our own spoiled, clueless, celebrity loving, event junkie fans that are giving him shit.
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The fans giving him proper shit would be in the minority I reckon.
 
If we lose tomorrow and only scramble the odd point against city, liverpool and chelsea, then the media are going to anialate him. As will many fans I'm afraid. It's really such a tough start for him. I for one am seriously not expecting much this season, so many changes...from top to bottom, any organisation no matter what profession would suffer for a while because of that. People talk about transitions at clubs and to be honest most of the time it's crap. But for United this is a true definition of it. It's going to take time for Moyes as I think it would anyone coming in, no matter what their pedigree. Optmistic in the short term? probably not much....however long term, yeah sure I am. I think Moyes is going to be really successful at United, as long as he's given time, the fans stay patient and the board don't ass about.
 
If we lost tomorrow and scrambled odd points against City, Liverpool and Chelsea the media would have annihilated Fergie too, and there would be questions about whether it was time to retire. What's the point in discussing what might happen if a hypothetical scenario happens?
 
moses said:
No proper journalist is. Even if they are, they get paid to do it. You'd think the 'fans' might give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Obviously. Nothing United specific though, believe me. To have some mentally challenged football fans is natural I think.
 
I think Moyes has been dealt a really shit hand so far: central midfield issue, Fergie putting the boot in with Rooney before leaving, change of CEO.
 
The Neviller said:
If we lost tomorrow and scrambled odd points against City, Liverpool and Chelsea the media would have annihilated Fergie too, and there would be questions about whether it was time to retire. What's the point in discussing what might happen if a hypothetical scenario happens?
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Yeah, pretty much, there's been times when some have called for Ferguson to retire, even last season.

On the start to the season, we're obviously going to drop some points over these fixtures, it's important to get as many points as possible and remain stable and united. Moyes won't bring instant success, we may have to grit our teeth and take some loses, but know Moyes is the right appointment in the long term.
 
moses said:
I'm beginning to subscribe to the idea our success has given us more than our fair share.
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Probably, but having Rapid Vienna as my second favourite football club is giving me quite an idea how angry and deluded football fans can get. Compared to that even the worst United fans seem rational.
 
Feed Me said:
I think Moyes has been dealt a really shit hand so far: central midfield issue, Fergie putting the boot in with Rooney before leaving, change of CEO.
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In a way all that mitigates any troubles he'll have. The bottom line is that a year is too soon to judge a manager in my opinion, so now ... it's just fecking absurd.
 
moses said:
In a way all that mitigates any troubles he'll have. The bottom line is that a year is too soon to judge a manager in my opinion, so now ... it's just fecking absurd.
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Yeah. It's just a pity that we're going to have to deal with a media shit storm throughout that period.

I've never taken as little notice of the mainstream media as I have this summer, because this little I have seen is ridiculous. People outside the club are desperate for the Empire to crumble. Fergie would've been busy building our famed siege mentality right about now - I trust Moyes is of the same ilk.
 
Feed Me said:
Yeah. It's just a pity that we're going to have to deal with a media shit storm throughout that period.

I've never taken as little notice of the mainstream media as I have this summer, because this little I have seen is ridiculous. People outside the club are desperate for the Empire to crumble. Fergie would've been busy building our famed siege mentality right about now - I trust Moyes is of the same ilk.
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Have been for years, and who can blame them. Rivals are understandably pissed at our success and the end of the empire is a big newpaper story, so they want to see the demise at every hands turn. And so should be ignored. When the doom mongers come from or own fanbase it's weird.
 
Tbh moses, I do agree with you general sentiment. But take a look at the successfull clubs in recent years, especially Bayern. The pressure put on Guardiola alone. That's just something Moyes will have to live with. Expectations are huge even in his first year. Nevertheless I agree that most fans should be so sensible to give him the time needed to settle in and get going before they start criticising him, and I'm sure most will.
That's the downside of success really. Expectations and pressure go hand in hand with it.
 
moses said:
@ Godfather

Yeah, you are right, and I know the reasons, it still pisses me off.
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Can totally understand that.
Although I'm also guilty of sometimes venting my anger on United. Often United isnt even the reason for me beeing pissed off. I can be quite a knob when it comes to this.
 
Feed Me said:
I think Moyes has been dealt a really shit hand so far: central midfield issue, Fergie putting the boot in with Rooney before leaving, change of CEO.
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Are you serious Moyes will think all his Christmas have come at once we know he has a minimum of £40-50m to spend! He would have had a new CEO regardless if it was Gill, his central mid options were more than enough to romp the league last season plus if need be he has a massive transfer kitty to strengthen it. And he could have chosen what he does with Rooney i.e new manager new start kid or sell him and it looks like it does now! The only hard time Moyes is getting is from the press who constantly write shite and any fan dumb enough to believe without thinking it through!
 
Raees said:
He wishes it was PHD material, in his own words - he's the very personification of an imbecile.



Good article.
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Could you paste it for those who don't subscribe Raees?
 
Kid Cunto said:
Yeah, pretty much, there's been times when some have called for Ferguson to retire, even last season.

On the start to the season, we're obviously going to drop some points over these fixtures, it's important to get as many points as possible and remain stable and united. Moyes won't bring instant success, we may have to grit our teeth and take some loses, but know Moyes is the right appointment in the long term.
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We don't know that to be fair. It's good to trust on the new manager, but on the other side manager has to earn the trust too. It will all be depended in how good the team play. Without going to make any parallels, Liverpool could have stood by Hodgson for another decade but that wouldn't improve things a bit and at best they would have been fighting relegation. If an appointment is a bad appointment, it doesn't make sense to stay by it for a long period of time. The sooner the team could their looses, the damage is smaller.

Anyway, while Moyes hasn't put himself to glory with the pre-season and the lack of signing, the real judging on him should start after the campaign starts. While we looked like an amateur team yesterday (and in some periods on other games) it doesn't make sense to start judging him without giving him the chance of having a competitive game.
 
The thing that bothers me is that Liverpool seem to be handling the Suarez situation better than we are the Rooney one.
 
Lawman said:
Are you serious Moyes will think all his Christmas have come at once we know he has a minimum of £40-50m to spend! He would have had a new CEO regardless if it was Gill, his central mid options were more than enough to romp the league last season plus if need be he has a massive transfer kitty to strengthen it. And he could have chosen what he does with Rooney i.e new manager new start kid or sell him and it looks like it does now! The only hard time Moyes is getting is from the press who constantly write shite and any fan dumb enough to believe without thinking it through!
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In an ideal world, Gill would've still been in place. A new manager and a new man heading up the board isn't ideal. Not having a pop at Woodward, but clearly it'd have been more ideal for Gill to have still been in place while Moyes was settling in. I suspect we'd have seen a very different approach to the way we've briefed the press this summer, and this would've created less pressure on Moyes. We can all sit here and say the press are talking rubbish, but when they start mischief making, it has the potential to create real problems for the team.

The central midfield area is clearly a problem. That we won the league doesn't remove our desperate need to strengthen. We were arguably lucky that City had the season they did (after a similarly disappointing close season) and that Chelsea were in constant flux. One thing is for sure, our rivals won't go easy on us this year.
 
Rednails said:
The thing that bothers me is that Liverpool seem to be handling the Suarez situation better than we are the Rooney one.
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I disagree with this. I just think Rooney is manipulating the press narrative better. We're in the same position as Liverpool - no need to sell. I hope we stay strong. £40m in the bank will be no consolation for handing Chelsea the title.
 
Moyes knows we just need 1 midfielder really to have real balance in the team. He knows we still have a few weeks to get that player and that the best time to bid will be towards the end of the window shutting when teams will be more likely to sell at a slightly reduced price to what they might want in this moment.....I think Moyes knows he needs a box to box goal scoring playmaker but theres no gaurentees he'll find someone....I think he will get the right player and if not then he knows the team will still challenge for trophies.....and he'll buy fellaini to bring more depth to the squad...I think moyes will have a good first season
 
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