Moyes So Far!

[datura]

Well he got pretty close on several occasions with a shitter Everton, so in theory it should be a piece of cake to break in the top 4. Depends what the moneymen think I suppose. As a fan I'd give him two years regardless but the Glazers et al care most about the stock price.

We have enough quality players to break down the crap teams which Everton struggled with. Plus Moyes' Everton always got better after November, a bit like Fergie's United. I don't think top 4 should be a huge problem, but we'll see.

With Everton he had all his own players in and an ingrained style of playing and team unity. With United he's inherited a talented team but with some issues - weak midfield, too many players underperforming, over reliance on the strikers for goals, ageing back four (Ferdinand, Evra). It was obviously going to be a season of transition and the poor transfer window hasn't helped with the only major signing not completed until the season had started.

I think we should be good enough for the top 4 but the other major teams have all strengthened and also the 2nd tier teams also so it's going to be far more competitive this season. I think some people on here have a sense of entitlement about where we should be and maybe lesser expectations may be a good thing, and allow Moyes time to stamp his mark on the team and integrate players such as Januzaj etc to make us less predictable and better to watch.

 

[Brophs]

Depends how highly you rate the likes of Hernandez, Welbeck, Zaha, Januzaj, Kagawa etc etc. He doesn't need to buy a whole new team because we have some good young players at the club

Probably not the thread for it - and possibly I'm the only one who thinks it - but I can't ever see Hernandez ever being more than a squad player for us.

 

[Varun]

Probably not the thread for it - and possibly I'm the only one who thinks it - but I can't ever see Hernandez ever being more than a squad player for us.

Very surprising opinion that but yeah, not the thread for it.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Well he deserves more chances than he's getting, showed some development in his hold-up play last season, I do think he can score 20 goals a season and flourish in the right team/system.

 

[alastair]

Arsenal never finished outside the top four since Wenger has taken over. Never, not once. And up to this summer their record signing was Arshavin for something like 17m.

Moyes, with greater resources and a title-winning squad at his disposal, has absolutely no excuse to finish behind either Liverpool or Spurs. Or even Arsenal, to be fair. Fifth would be an embarassment. I fail to see why should we lower our expectations so drastically. He inherited a squad with flaws, yes - if we consider the aim to be title challengers and credible contenders in Europe. We have clear deficiencies when it comes to competing on that level (and that is the level we should aspire to, no question). But it's absolutely mental to suggest that it's not among the best four squads in the Premier League.

Some people act as if Moyes had Southampton's squad at his disposal or something. He finished 5th twice with Everton and even 4th once. And yet it's unreasonable to expect him to do better with Manchester United? Anyone who accepts that we might finish 5th basically says that Moyes is not up to the job.

I think that's a very sensible post.

The view that United might drop out of the top four is really premature. It would be quite shocking if they did, and there is absolutely no reason why they should. It would be mis-management of the highest order should it happen.

United have a few games coming up now where they can recover. We need the adjusted PL table to show the real state of play, because whilst United have been disappointing so far, there's plenty of time for improvement.

 

[Varun]

Well he deserves more chances than he's getting, showed some development in his hold-up play last season, I do think he can score 20 goals a season and flourish in the right team/system.

He's a 30 goal a season striker in a team built to get the best out of him. It wont happen here though specially with both RVP and Rooney at their peaks here and think he'l leave in a season or 2.

 

[Julian Denny]

He needs to be given 2 years, because he needs to be given the chance to build his own team. Either by design, or the colossal feck up of the transfer window, this is still Fergie's team, with one of Moyes's pet pupils brought in. Even a disaster scenario of finishing outside of the top 4 wouldn't change my mind on that, because we'd still need to get a summer > half season of re-building under our belts.

There are a lot of things I'm concerned about so far, and I view the start to his tenure pretty badly (the "consistency" experiment was a monumental failure, and should've been acknowledged as such earlier) but if we're going to try and let him build his own dynasty, we have to at least let him do it with a team that's his.

Obviously if it gets too bad we still need the chance to bail, but a couple of years of disappointment is not going to destroy Manchester United.

There's a lot of sense in that but I fear he has an almost thankless task on his hands. Some fans may look on this realistically like you do but I suspect the vast majority will lose patience very quickly - some may have already done so. What's more its going to be very difficult if over the next couple of years and, who knows, some time beyond that, we see the likes of City, Arsenal, Chelsea and, god forbid, Liverpool take all the plaudits whilst we, the mighty Manchester United, struggle to make the top four. Perhaps that's a worst case scenario and we need to try and keep optimistic in what could be a difficult period.

Unfortunately for Moyes he has no real track record of success which was hitherto a stated basic requirement for any Fergie successor. There may be much to criticise about Mourinho's start at Chelsea but everyone knows he is a winner eventually. They don't know that with Moyes which just adds to the pressure.

I can understand Moyes' cautious approach - witness the two holding midfielders. It would be very hypocritical, having complained how Fergie's midfield often leaked like a sieve against better opposition, that we now are aghast when the new manager tries to do something about it. Anyway, what will help is if fans see Moyes at least trying to be a bit more positive and aggressive in his team selection and approach to games. We want to see the likes of Zaha and Januzaj and the flair they may bring. We also want to see some proper dealings in the transfer market come January and next summer in order to strengthen the squad with true United quality. By that time Moyes will have a better idea of his resources and will know who the deadwood are.

The six year contract is an indication that this is indeed a long term project. Unfortunately there are many, incited as they may be by an increasingly hostile media, who wont see it that way.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

There's a sense of entitlement to success with some fans... But yes, to finish outside the top four would be a disaster and Moyes would deserve to be axed if it happened.

It won't happen though.

 

[Mickeza]

It would be a disastrous campaign if we finished outside of a CL spot with the squad at our disposal.

Thank Christ someone has ended the competition of "who can try and come across as the most enlightened supporter" that appears to have broken out on this page. Grinner summed this nonsense up with "So who could manage this squad to top four then?" If Moyes finishes outside the top four this season he'll be very lucky to keep his job, three years (what a random figure) to make his mark or not.

Looking two/three years in advance, unless the Glaziers spend some serious cash, and by serious I don't mean spend £30m in one summer and then write to everyone declaring how brilliant they are, then Moyes will have a near impossible job keeping us competing for titles.

 

[Theon]

Probably not the thread for it - and possibly I'm the only one who thinks it - but I can't ever see Hernandez ever being more than a squad player for us.

Really? I am surprised, Brophs.

I guess he's still somewhat limited but there have been improvements there, no question. He didn't get much of an opportunity last season and in general it was very poor for him, but when he did play his general play and passing was noticeably improved from 11/12. He's no Rooney and will never play as a striker that way but I think if given a chance he'll certainly become a more rounded footballer than what we saw in his first two seasons here. As I said the signs of improvement are there already IMO.

Then when it comes to goals he's already good enough, gets a goal every 120 minutes in the league.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The thing is, if Moyes doesn't finish in the top 4 - considering the squad and quality of players he has at his disposal (He has 2 of the 3 best strikers in the league for feck sake) that surely is a reflection of his own managerial abilities?

Now I am very much of the belief that Moyes needs plenty of time (and I was against Moyes' hiring... and ultimately, I haven't seen anything so far that would make me change my original opinion) to have a real go and either succeed or fall-short... but serious questions would surely have to be asked if we do finish outside the top 4 - though it doesn't necceserily equate to an automatic sacking.

 

[finneh]

Yet there's still an awful lot of people one here saying that failing to make the top four this season is an automatic sackable offence.

Wishful thinking?

I hugely disagree with this. The absolute minimum requirement for this club is Champions League Football. Any competent manager should be able to achieve this with our current squad. Any manager that finishes 5th or worse could not be trusted with the funds and time to build their own squad.

I am massively in favour of giving Moyes 3-4 years to build a team, even if he doesn't win a single trophy. But there are bear minimums; one of which is a top 4 finish.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

The thing is, if Moyes doesn't finish in the top 4 - considering the squad and quality of players he has at his disposal (He has 2 of the 3 best strikers in the league for feck sake) that surely is a reflection of his own managerial abilities? Now I am very much of the belief that Moyes needs plenty of time (and I was against Moyes' hiring... and ultimately, I haven't seen anything so far that would make me change my original opinion) to have a real go and either succeed or fall-short... but serious questions would surely have to be asked if we do finish outside the top 4 - though it doesn't necceserily equate to an automatic sacking.

I think it does, and it should.

But again, I stress I really don't see it happening.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I think it does, and it should.

But again, I stress I really don't see it happening.

Well it depends on the circumstances doesn't it? If Rooney, RVP and Carrick all get injured and we end up finishing 5th by one point... would that be an automatic sacking?

But like you, I highly doubt we'll finish 5th so it's a non-issue.

 

[Steven Seagull]

I'm with Brophs. Hernandez is the same age as Aguero who is the level of player we should be aspiring to. But there's more than enough room to keep Hernandez here and keep him content too.

 

[Redlambs]

I dunno, I'm all for giving him time.

What get's me though is this losing mentality. Saying we are going to have plenty more lows, and need players, it's all sorts of things you look at other managers and think "yeah right, that's a wimp attitude right there".

I agree our squad wasn't the best that we've had last season, and we definitely need improving, but it's the attitude from the man in charge that makes a huge difference. Of course we had shit games against Chelsea, Liverpool and City under Sir Alex, of course we had rough spells, but come on this whole opening period of tactics, player selections, pre and post match interviews has all been about Moyes wanting to get through this rough start. We have looked gutless and devoid of any ideas in nearly every game, all because he's been scared to gamble and really let loose.

He deserves time to change that and learn how to handle life at the top. Even if we finish 5th, I wouldn't call for his head as long as he's showing signs of that stubborn fighting spirit he really needs to succeed here. Because so far he has been a rabbit in the headlights.



Ironic that the one person who, even against City when we four four behind, so far that has shown most guts this season is Rooney.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

It's impossible to maintain a certain high standard, the vast majority of this team have maintained it for years.
So in that respect I do see there being more lows until Moyes can shake up the squad as he wants.

 

[Slevs]

He hasn't rotated the two aging centrebacks enough.
Starting Young when there are better options.
Starting Young and Giggs against Liverpool and then playing Giggs right wing.
Not making changes at half time during the city game.
Signing Fellaini in a panic and overpaying for him.
Not shown any tactical awareness in the way we have been set up to play - its very much 442 wing play or bust.

He just goes one from one mistake to another at the moment.

Is he lacking confidence?

He's used to playing the same starting eleven at Everton because of the lack of suitable replacements. He isn't used to having a squad as big as this.

 

[Mickeza]

Does anyone have the full quotes or know the context regarding his comments about us having lows in the future and him needed to spend money on first team quality? Was he reducing expectations Hodgson style or just answering questions honestly? I hope it's the latter, one of the major things I've liked so far about Moyes is that he hasn't shirked expectations and has stated on numerous occasions Manchester United want to win every trophy.

 

[Brophs]

He's used to playing the same starting eleven at Everton because of the lack of suitable replacements. He isn't used to having a squad as big as this.

I think it's much more likely that he looked at our opening fixtures and thought that it was better to go with tried and trusted players and to keep things steady. I think we'll see him change things a bit more now that we're past that horrible run of games.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I think it's much more likely that he looked at our opening fixtures and thought that it was better to go with tried and trusted players and to keep things steady. I think we'll see him change things a bit more now that we're past that horrible run of games.

I agree.

I also think this is why we've seen Valencia, Young and Giggs over Kagawa and Nani.

 

[Varun]

I'm with Brophs. Hernandez is the same age as Aguero who is the level of player we should be aspiring to. But there's more than enough room to keep Hernandez here and keep him content too.

He's a very different player to Aguero and not being on the same level as him is no reason to not be more than a squad player here. I do agree he'l never be a starter here but that's to do with us already having 2 of the world's best strikers at their peak and not his qualities as a footballer which I think is what brophs meant.

 

[Slevs]

I think it's much more likely that he looked at our opening fixtures and thought that it was better to go with tried and trusted players and to keep things steady. I think we'll see him change things a bit more now that we're past that horrible run of games.

I'd agree with that. Let's see what he does tonight.

 

[Varun]

He's used to playing the same starting eleven at Everton because of the lack of suitable replacements. He isn't used to having a squad as big as this.

He's already said in an interview that the lack of rotation was pre-determined as the fixtures were very tough and being new to the job, he wanted to go with the best possible line up. Its from now on that we'll see how inclined he is to rotation.

 

[SER19]

Does anyone have the full quotes or know the context regarding his comments about us having lows in the future and him needed to spend money on first team quality? Was he reducing expectations Hodgson style or just answering questions honestly? I hope it's the latter, one of the major things I've liked so far about Moyes is that he hasn't shirked expectations and has stated on numerous occasions Manchester United want to win every trophy.

youl get them on the times today. I genuinely dont believe for a second he was lowering expectations I very much read it as him trying to make sure people dont think a result like sunday will have crushed him, basically saying he's taken over from the greatest manager ever and trying to build his own team so bad results are inevitable. he did say he wants to add players but that we have enough squad players, he only wants ones to go straight into the team.

I trust Moyes fully, we cant judge him at all yet honsetly, christmas we'll have a good idea but even then is early. He's going expect to push for the title and Id be surprised if hes not successful here/

Bizarrely the times suggested we were prepared to match the Real bid for Bale!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Arsenal never finished outside the top four since Wenger has taken over. Never, not once. And up to this summer their record signing was Arshavin for something like 17m.

Moyes, with greater resources and a title-winning squad at his disposal, has absolutely no excuse to finish behind either Liverpool or Spurs. Or even Arsenal, to be fair. Fifth would be an embarassment. I fail to see why should we lower our expectations so drastically. He inherited a squad with flaws, yes - if we consider the aim to be title challengers and credible contenders in Europe. We have clear deficiencies when it comes to competing on that level (and that is the level we should aspire to, no question). But it's absolutely mental to suggest that it's not among the best four squads in the Premier League.

Some people act as if Moyes had Southampton's squad at his disposal or something. He finished 5th twice with Everton and even 4th once. And yet it's unreasonable to expect him to do better with Manchester United? Anyone who accepts that we might finish 5th basically says that Moyes is not up to the job.

Times have changed.

As soon as the second sugar daddy club hit the league Arsenal's ceiling was fourth. They were fortunate in that Spurs were a managerial merry-go-round who inevitably ended up as a shambles. This also coincided with Liverpool basically falling apart at the seams.

This season Spurs have had a massive windfall (all invested in the squad) and stuck with a manager that looks competent enough. Arsenal themselves have managed to - for once - not lose their best player as well as doubling their biggest transfer fee to date. Meanwhile Chelsea and City have continued their insane spending and got two extremely highly rated managers in charge. Liverpool are better than they have been in years an' all.

You'd have to be living under a rock not to see that holding down a place in the top four is a far harder task than in previous seasons where Wenger achieved this goal.

 

[Redlambs]

I think it's much more likely that he looked at our opening fixtures and thought that it was better to go with tried and trusted players and to keep things steady. I think we'll see him change things a bit more now that we're past that horrible run of games.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about and definitely what I'm hoping.

A bad result tonight with that kind of performance is really going to start to pile pressure on him. Let's hope he opens the taps up. Even if we then lose, showing some guts has got to be better than what we've had so far.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I suspect it will be closer to three years before he's absolutely got the team where he wants it. This season will be almost a write off in terms of transfers and he won't want to make sweeping changes anyway, given the upheaval at the club as it is. Next summer I think we'll probably see him try to make some big moves in the market and possibly move a few players on. He'll also have to deal with the likes of Rio and Evra either retiring or possibly being moved on, particularly in light of how we were obviously trying to bring in a left back. So even his second season will have plenty of players settling in and so on. Most players, particularly coming from abroad, take a season or so to find their feet.

I think as long as we get in the Top 4 it will be fine, we need CL football to sign the calibre of player we need. If we do that I will be happy. The guy needs our support. If It takes a bit of time for it all to come together then so be it. Another thing everybody stop believing the bloody press.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Does anyone have the full quotes or know the context regarding his comments about us having lows in the future and him needed to spend money on first team quality? Was he reducing expectations Hodgson style or just answering questions honestly? I hope it's the latter, one of the major things I've liked so far about Moyes is that he hasn't shirked expectations and has stated on numerous occasions Manchester United want to win every trophy.

I think he was just being honest, no club has constant highs. I also think the players he needs to sign are for in the team, not the squad. A majority of the players signed recently bar RVP and DeGea are what I would call squad players.

 

[Raees]

Who was a better alternative then Valencia? He'd just had his best game in ages midweek and scored as well so should have been high on confidence?

Nani is just back from injury so lacking match sharpness and Kagawa wasn't particularly impressive midweek.

Going in 4-4-2 was positive, he could easily have tried to contain them with a 4-5-1 but he didn't. It was just a poor performance all round.

We're presuming that he makes these decisions based exclusively on match fitness, which if it is true, then I would say he's well within his rights to select them in that case. I'm saying that if he genuinely believes Valencia and Young to be better players because they 'work harder'.. we have a right to be worried as that demonstrates a lack of judgement.

 

[Rednails]

Moyes actual words.


David Moyes believes Manchester United may suffer more defeats like the 4-1 thrashing by Manchester City and that he will continue “to take the punches” as he changes a team in “transition”.

Punch drunk: David Moyes is ready to take a fall again for Manchester United Photo: GETTY IMAGES


By Henry Winter, Football Correspondent
6:00AM BST 25 Sep 2013

176 Comments

Manchester United’s manager reiterated the need for “one or two” new players “to go right into the team’’.
United face Liverpool in the Capital One Cup at Old Trafford on Wednesday evening with Robin van Persie still missing with a groin strain and some youngsters may feature.
The initial indication on Tuesday was that Moyes’s assistant, Steve Round, would conduct the pre-match media duties at Carrington but the manager decided it was important to front up after Sunday’s defeat.
“It does mean I may have to take a few more blows, definitely, maybe even more than that,’’ Moyes said.
“It’s important that I took the punches and keep taking the punches and I’m happy to do that.
"Not for a minute did I think this Manchester United job was going to be an easy job. I know there will be days like we had on Sunday and there might be more of them because we are in a period where there will be a transition, there’s a new manager for the players, and in turn there will be new players as well at different times, so obviously that will happen.
“When you are a football manager for the length of time I’ve been, you are always going to have shocks. I’ve had lots. I’ve no doubt there will be more in the future.
"I’m going to have to take a few on the chin. Any manager who is in a situation where they lose a game will tell you that it’s never a nice place to be when you’ve been well beaten, which we were. So you’re never comfortable, especially in a derby game as well. It wasn’t great, that’s for sure.
“It might be all season I have to take a few blows but I knew this was going to be the case because I was taking over from a great manager and it was always going to take time for me to get my own ways and change things round a little bit.
"It doesn’t need big jobs changed but there will be some things. A lot of people thought with Manchester United [winning the league] last season it was probably the form of other teams that was poor.’’
Few would argue with Moyes’s perspective on the title race. United’s main rivals, City, certainly faltered. This was not one of United’s greatest title-winning squads. Moyes acknowledged strengthening was required.
“I don’t think it’s actually the squad,’’ he said. “We’ve got numbers. Maybe what we’ll be looking to do is bring players in not for the squad but to go right into the team so that’s the slightly different equation.
"It’s not necessarily the squad players we needed. We needed one or two who might have just gone in [to the team]. But that will happen. But going back to that transfer window, we always said it was going to be a tough one and it was going to take a little bit more time.”
United were disappointed that Leighton Baines did not submit a transfer bid and they withdrew from buying Ander Herrera. Cesc Fabregas proved too embedded at Barcelona while Moyes refused to comment on the claim by Florentino Pérez, Real Madrid’s president, that the English champions bid for Gareth Bale.
United are already focusing on recruiting a centre-half, a left-back and a central-midfielder in either the January transfer window or, more likely, next summer.
Moyes does expect a strong reaction from his team on Wednesday night.
“When you’ve got the players we’ve got I can see it’s written all over their face how they feel,’’ Moyes said. “You know and hope there will be a reaction. I’m sure there will be.’’
United’s manager defended the team’s record this season.
“We’ve only had one [bad game] really,’’ he said. “The team has played well in the games. If you were being really fair you you’d have to say that Manchester United have actually played well in the games but that was the poor performance really. We could maybe have played a little bit better at Liverpool and got a goal or two but we have not played badly, except at Manchester City.’’
He agreed that his players failed to do the basics against City, particularly the marking.
“In the games where we’d played really well I hadn’t seen that. I’ve also got to say I hadn’t seen that level of performance from Manchester City either. We looked quite easy to play against which is not the norm for Manchester United.”
Moyes took some reassurance that his team did not totally fold at 4-0 down after 50 minutes.
“I took a little bit that we tried to make sure nothing else went any further because at that time it could have. I’m not daft. I know we were in real danger at that moment but by that time Manchester City knew they didn’t need to do any more either.’’
As for what it would “mean” to the game if Luis Suárez starts after suspension, Moyes replied:
“It means Liverpool have a really good player. I know the qualities of Luis Suárez are very good.’’
Van Persie, who has a slight groin problem, would not be involved, Moyes claimed.
“He will have an outside chance for Saturday [at home against West Bromwich Albion].”
Moyes also confirmed that Michael Carrick “wasn’t well” before Sunday’s match.
The United manager has to balance the need for a confidence-restoring victory against the usual habit of introducing some fringe players.
“We’ve got one or two young players that we’d like to be involved,’’ he said.
A final question to Moyes, about Ashley Young’s form, was interrupted by United’s press officer, declaring: “Got to go.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...eds-in-as-Manchester-Uniteds-new-manager.html

 

[finneh]

I think that's a very sensible post.

The view that United might drop out of the top four is really premature. It would be quite shocking if they did, and there is absolutely no reason why they should. It would be mis-management of the highest order should it happen.

United have a few games coming up now where they can recover. We need the adjusted PL table to show the real state of play, because whilst United have been disappointing so far, there's plenty of time for improvement.

Judging by peterstorey's old formula:

Top 6: Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd, City, Spurs
Bottom 5: Southampton, Hull, Sunderland, Crystal Palace, Cardiff
Midtable: the other 9.

Win all homes (57)
Lose away against top 6 (0)
Point away against midtable (9)
Win away against bottom 5 (15)

81 points so probably won with a +4.

United: Swansea away (+2), Chelsea home (-2), Liverpool away (0), C.Palace home (0), Man City (0) = 0 points
City: Newcastle home (0), Cardiff away (-3), Hull home (0), Stoke away (0), Man Utd (0) = -3 points
Arsenal: Villa home (-3), Fulham away (+2), Spurs home (0), Sunderland away (0), Stoke home (0) = -1 points
Chelsea: Hull (0), Villa (0), Man Utd (+ 1), Everton (-1), Fulham (0) = 0 points
Spurs: C.Palace (0), Swansea (0), Arsenal (0), Norwich (0), Cardiff (0) = 0 points

Shows our current "form" in a slightly more sympathetic light.

 

[Julian Denny]

I think as long as we get in the Top 4 it will be fine, we need CL football to sign the calibre of player we need. If we do that I will be happy. The guy needs our support. If It takes a bit of time for it all to come together then so be it. Another thing everybody stop believing the bloody press.

Whilst Moyes will undoubtedly be given time, the top 4 finish is crucial though. Not only from a financial viewpoint and indeed being able to attract the right quality players, it is also an issue of keeping the ones we have got - particularly Rooney. If we don't get ECL football during this Moyes transition then nobody can blame Rooney looking to sign possibly the last major contract of his career somewhere else.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Moyes actual words.

What's your point? By taking the punches he was referring to facing the media after the defeat, and he never said we might suffer more defeats like the 4-1. That headline is exactly the opposite of his actual words. It's taking a quote and stretching it way past what was actually said.

As for the bolded part, I see nothing wrong with that. We do have a strong squad. Our second 11 would bead any other second 11 but we do need some real quality on the wings and perhaps in midfield. Once he knows that he can be working towards the next windows.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What's your point? By taking the punches he was referring to facing the media after the defeat, and he never said we might suffer more defeats like the 4-1. That headline is exactly the opposite of his actual words. It's taking a quote and stretching it way past what was actually said.

As for the bolded part, I see nothing wrong with that. We do have a strong squad. Our second 11 would bead any other second 11 but we do need some real quality on the wings and perhaps in midfield. Once he knows that he can be working towards the next windows.

That's the big problem when you get someone writing the article and someone else writing the headline.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Judging by peterstorey's old formula:

Top 6: Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Utd, City, Spurs
Bottom 5: Southampton, Hull, Sunderland, Crystal Palace, Cardiff
Midtable: the other 9.

Win all homes (57)
Lose away against top 6 (0)
Point away against midtable (9)
Win away against bottom 5 (15)

81 points so probably won with a +4.

United: Swansea away (+2), Chelsea home (-2), Liverpool away (0), C.Palace home (0), Man City (0) = 0 points
City: Newcastle home (0), Cardiff away (-3), Hull home (0), Stoke away (0), Man Utd (0) = -3 points
Arsenal: Villa home (-3), Fulham away (+2), Spurs home (0), Sunderland away (0), Stoke home (0) = -1 points
Chelsea: Hull (0), Villa (0), Man Utd (+ 1), Everton (-1), Fulham (0) = 0 points
Spurs: C.Palace (0), Swansea (0), Arsenal (0), Norwich (0), Cardiff (0) = 0 points

Shows our current "form" in a slightly more sympathetic light.

That is actually quite reassuring.

Good ol' peterstorey.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Judging by peterstorey's old formula:

Shows our current "form" in a slightly more sympathetic light.

I'd been thinking about that table actually and I'd say it's more reflective of where we are. Apart from the City game we haven't been too far away from getting it right. We've dominated the other 4 games to some extent and despite not creating a lot we scored 7 in five games including three of our toughest opponents. Once we get through the next 5 games I'll pass judgement. I always assumed we would set up mush more creatively after these few games.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

That's the big problem when you get someone writing the article and someone else writing the headline.

Exactly. to quote an article with a misleading headline and to state 'Moyes actual words' above it is dangerous. People start to believe what they see instead of the truth.

 

[Chabon]

RVP will be 33 then, and Rooney (if he's still here) 30 - but physically 38 - and Carrick 35, So he's going to need to replace almost everyone essentially, even our best and brightest.

Good job we've got a small army of immensely talented u25s then. If we make the quite possibly inevitable Coentrao transfer all we'll need is a couple of squad players and two really big signings for the first team. To avoid untidyness, I'll put my justification for that in spoiler tags.

Spoiler: explanation

Discount those who I'm confident won't be here three years from now, and you're looking at this:

De Gea (Lindegaard)

Evans Smalling Jones Keane (Vidic)

Rafael Varela Coentrao Fabio

Fellaini Cleverley Powell Kagawa (Carrick)

Zaha Januzaj Nani Lingard (Rooney)

Welbeck Hernandez Henriquez Keane (Van Persie)

Subtract a couple of kids who fall away, a couple of players who feck off and probably one of the over-30s who falls apart. Then add a couple of signed squad players and a couple of kids stepping up. After that all we need is two big transfers in whichever positions need it most (midfield, one imagines) and we'll have a pretty bloody squad in three years. Just need to get the signings right...

Of course, the above is all very presumptuous. This is football, after all, Ashley Young might well be captain three years from now. My point is merely that we have a very, very strong group of young players to build on. Partly because this is Alex Ferguson's parting gift to the his successor, partly because we have a great tradition of youth, and partly because the above bolded players cost something like £150m, plus however much we shell out for Coentrao.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Re: Top four finish.

Of course this is important, vital, even. It is to any team in our category these days. But Moyes is well aware of this. His comments, designed to lower the expectations, aren't meant for his own players. They're aimed at the press and the fans: The former would just love to see United fall apart and the latter are prone to hysteria, as we've bloody well seen round here of late.

He knows well that CL football is the first condition that must be in place if we are to attract the sort of players we need - and keep certain other characters.

As for this task itself - yes, it's more difficult in many ways than it has been. But I personally think we'll manage this "easily" enough. We have looked very comfortable against the weaker teams we've faced thus far. This is the key to making a good run in the league. Not to drop unnecessary points against the smaller fry. If we can get this right - and I see no reason why we shouldn't with our collective experience - 4th shouldn't be a big problem.

Plus, City are in no way a clear favourite to run away with the league just because they waltzed allover us the other night. They're capable of dropping points here and there, nothings suggests otherwise. Maureen's team down in London definitely needs a bit of work before it's anything to be truly feared. Arsenal and Spurs both have highly dubious squads compared to us. None of this has changed.