I know I'm being pedantic here but I agree that the "settling in" stuff could make a +/- 10 points difference to our total at the end of the season but I don't see how you can say that while also saying a 5th place finish is out of the question.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
My own reason for being confident we won't finish outside the top four is that I don't think Spurs and Arsenal (never mind Liverpool) have what it takes to maintain their current table standings. I think, as I've thought all summer, that this will be a three horse race.
Put it like this: If Spurs and Arsenal have actually strengthened to a degree which makes them real contenders anything is possible. If Spurs can win the league, we can certainly finish 5th. But I maintain that this is not likely to happen.
Put it like this: If Spurs and Arsenal have actually strengthened to a degree which makes them real contenders anything is possible. If Spurs can win the league, we can certainly finish 5th. But I maintain that this is not likely to happen.
We won the league with 89 points last season, which probably would have been more than 90 if we didn't wrap it up early (e.g. West Brom). I'd think with the same squad + Fellaini we are better off squad wise (the year older should work more to our advantage with the younger ones than it takes away with the likes of Giggs and Rio).
So what is an "allowable cost" from settling in? I'd say 10-15 points is reasonable, which puts us at 75-80 points. I don't think you could realistically be out of the Top 4 with that points total. It's mathematically possible but for that to be the case (many teams picking up higher than normal points total) you would be looking at the mid/bottom-table sides not being very competitive, which in turn makes it less likely we do worse on our performance last year.
I reckon to drop from the Top 4 we would have to lose 20 more points than last season and that would start being quite worrying when it is "only" really the manager that has changed.
Ok, that sort of makes sense.
The thing is, I think there's lots of very plausible reasons for the other 4 teams with a shot of CL qualification to accumulate significantly more points, this season than last.
They've all either improved their managers or invested heavily in their squad, or both (we've done neither, as it happens) Last season, Spurs finished 5th with 72 points. Your "allowable cost" could see us finish with 74 points.
Suddenly the "mathematically possible but unlikely" scenario doesn't seem all that far-fetched at all.
The thing is, I think there's lots of very plausible reasons for the other 4 teams with a shot of CL qualification to accumulate significantly more points, this season than last.
They've all either improved their managers or invested heavily in their squad, or both (we've done neither, as it happens) Last season, Spurs finished 5th with 72 points. Your "allowable cost" could see us finish with 74 points.
Suddenly the "mathematically possible but unlikely" scenario doesn't seem all that far-fetched at all.
First time I've heard a of new manager taking over a PL championshp team (or top 4 come to that) and saying it'll take time. What does he mean......it'll take time for him to get us back to winning things again?
Chelsea have gone through a fair few managers over the last few years and I don't reacall hearing any of them saying they neeed time, they've just taken over and carried on as before, keeping Chelsea winning something (or reaching the final) and in the top 4 of the PL.
Also seems most peculiar to hear a PL manager seem surprised that Hernandez was good in the box.
It's almost like Moyes managed Everton ok yet never bothered to watch any other football teams on the television and didn't pay too much attention to them when he was at their ground.
Chelsea have gone through a fair few managers over the last few years and I don't reacall hearing any of them saying they neeed time, they've just taken over and carried on as before, keeping Chelsea winning something (or reaching the final) and in the top 4 of the PL.
Also seems most peculiar to hear a PL manager seem surprised that Hernandez was good in the box.
It's almost like Moyes managed Everton ok yet never bothered to watch any other football teams on the television and didn't pay too much attention to them when he was at their ground.
That's probably because it's the first time you've heard of a new manager taking over a PL championship team, full stop.
They all said they needed time. That's standard new manager speak. The fact Chelsea remained in or around the top four was a combination of Arsenal and Spurs being miles off the pace and phenomenal spending.
Which PL manager seemed surprised that Hernandez was good in the box?
Really? You actually think that might have been the case?
There's a good argument to be made that for that to have been the stupidest post ever made on the caf, and I'm including the generals and the noobs.
Try this one, mate:
A newb wrote:
Users are going to bash me For this But what the Hell.
I have been a fan of United since 2001.Many great players have graced old trafford and many would be remembered for different reasons for years To Come.Eric Cantona is Loved By united Fans to no end.As Big of a united Fan I am I never found him on the level of Henry,Shearer,Bergkamp or dare I even Say Rooney.
He was intrumental in Uniteds Success in early-mid ninties.The final Piece in the jigsaw.Yes he was a great Father figure and inpirational but Here I am talking about Cantona the player not the Father figure.I never Saw him Play since he was Before My time.After watching many clips of the guy,Yes he was a very good player but seriously there is was nothing special about him That would consider me Placing him Amongst the greats And once Again I am talking about Cantona the Player not the Father figure.
He was not a Great Dribbler neither was he A great Goal Scorer.He was inspirational but he rarely produced moment of brilliance on the pitch on regular intervals the way others did.I think he is overhyped to no end.
Worth mentioning he failed to perform for united at champions league.I think Eric cantona the Player is Overhyped.I can name 20 Players at united better than cantona.
One thing that Has helped Cantona alot is Nostalgia.Many fans are suckers for nostalgia and tend to forget how he failed to perform on many occasions like champions league.
He was Overrated by EPL media Machine.
Users are going to bash me For this But what the Hell.
I have been a fan of United since 2001.Many great players have graced old trafford and many would be remembered for different reasons for years To Come.Eric Cantona is Loved By united Fans to no end.As Big of a united Fan I am I never found him on the level of Henry,Shearer,Bergkamp or dare I even Say Rooney.
He was intrumental in Uniteds Success in early-mid ninties.The final Piece in the jigsaw.Yes he was a great Father figure and inpirational but Here I am talking about Cantona the player not the Father figure.I never Saw him Play since he was Before My time.After watching many clips of the guy,Yes he was a very good player but seriously there is was nothing special about him That would consider me Placing him Amongst the greats And once Again I am talking about Cantona the Player not the Father figure.
He was not a Great Dribbler neither was he A great Goal Scorer.He was inspirational but he rarely produced moment of brilliance on the pitch on regular intervals the way others did.I think he is overhyped to no end.
Worth mentioning he failed to perform for united at champions league.I think Eric cantona the Player is Overhyped.I can name 20 Players at united better than cantona.
One thing that Has helped Cantona alot is Nostalgia.Many fans are suckers for nostalgia and tend to forget how he failed to perform on many occasions like champions league.
He was Overrated by EPL media Machine.
We have a very good back five (best in the league given the depth), decent midfield (A bit short in CM but brilliant at AM) and PL two best players in attack. I can't really comprehend how any of our fans would suggest that. It's not really being arrogant and spoiled but rational.
That's because they wouldn't have managed Chelsea if they said it's going to take time. Managers aren't that stupid in general.
I really like Moyes and his recent comments suggest that he realizes that we're 2-3 top quality first team players short of being capable of competing on all fronts properly. They really do need to be extremely good additions houh if we're to keep pace with the best in Europe.
Don't judge him on this season alone.
Don't judge him on this season alone.
I want to punch that newb right in his tiny newb cock.
Stupid Cantona, our king was such a useless footballer. God, I'd take play Victor Moses over him any day of the week.
To be fair, there are a fair few United players I'd take over Cantona if I was picking a team to play for my life. Keane, Ronaldo, Scholes, Vidic, Giggs and Schmeichel to name a few. Obviously he was quality but I wouldn't have him amongst the very best United players of all time. Just my opinion though.
Same here, can't really say Cantona's better than Bergkamp, Zola, di Canio, Jay Jay Okocha etc let alone Henry or Ronaldo.
Come on now. Have either of you ever watched him play?
Okocha better than Cantona. Reeeeeally???
Now see what you've done!
Seems Ian Herbert, after slamming the quality of our squad earlier this week to defend David Moyes, has changed his tune and is now saying the manager hasn't shown enough faith in the players Fergie left him...
Ian Herbert: David Moyes unable to grasp that it's HIS Manchester United team
Its amazing how quickly people can change their minds isn't it?
Ian Herbert: David Moyes unable to grasp that it's HIS Manchester United team
Its amazing how quickly people can change their minds isn't it?
He's just based his article on the exact same stuff that's triggered dozens and dozens of posts on here. Moyes's habit of talking about what "they" told him about his squad. It all means feck all anyway. Every PL manager will know loads about players they might come up against. Much more than the casual observer on here. Add to that the briefing he will have had from Fergie and the fact he watches them in training every day and it's blatantly obvious he will have formed his own opinions. It's just a manner of speaking. He's trying to give journos an insight into the discussions about players that goes on behind the scenes when a new manager takes over. Nothing in it at all.
When it prompts as much debate as it did on here, it's no great surprise that journos spin a 1000 words out of it, nor does it contradict the previous article from the same hack.
When it prompts as much debate as it did on here, it's no great surprise that journos spin a 1000 words out of it, nor does it contradict the previous article from the same hack.
VII is just joking (hopefully). Though personally I don't think that there was much to choose between King Eric and Bergkamp.
We serious here?
Through many of the fans? No. Hasn't got a chance.
Through the people who matter at the club? I hope so.
Hope he doesn't get any stick today, I can't see what he's done too wrong today in terms of selection. Players need to sort themselves out.
Yes he does wrong, prioritising champions league while playing the likes of Buttner.
Seriously, rotation only works if you actually win the match, rotating and lose... heck I can do that
Seriously, rotation only works if you actually win the match, rotating and lose... heck I can do that
I think he is under pressure already to be brutally honest. Should not be losing at home to WBA
You've seen the match thread, and what this thread has been like this season. He's going to be roasted.
He's always going to get the blame if we lose, it's unfair but that comes with the job.
can you blame the fans etc?
Damien if you have an issue with the match thread just close the feckin thing, not everybody can be as cool and calm and analytic as you
I wouldn't expect him at Everton to lose to WBA at home, or at least look so inept.
Bear in mind RVP's had a groin injury...
Nani Carrick Anderson Kagawa
Rooney Hernandez
I'm sorry but the majority of those names are so called 'fan-favourites' and we've still be poor, they've looked more dangerous than us going forwards. The manager can't always be to blame, I've seen a lack of effort from some players - not good enough. He needs our backing for now.
The thing is , we have a solid team (probably not world class), but solid.
With Smailing, Vidic, Jones, Fabio, there's no reason why Moyes needs to play Buttner and Anderson (while resting Fellaini), it's a cocky move thinking we could mow WBA and keep the squad fresh for Shaktar... it backfired backly, and it is down to Moyes.
Rotation only means something if you're actually winning the match, rotating and lose any manager can do that.
It takes so long for Moyes to take off Anderson / Buttner.. he could have at least shouted instruction to settle things up at the back there.
With Smailing, Vidic, Jones, Fabio, there's no reason why Moyes needs to play Buttner and Anderson (while resting Fellaini), it's a cocky move thinking we could mow WBA and keep the squad fresh for Shaktar... it backfired backly, and it is down to Moyes.
Rotation only means something if you're actually winning the match, rotating and lose any manager can do that.
It takes so long for Moyes to take off Anderson / Buttner.. he could have at least shouted instruction to settle things up at the back there.
Kagawa cuts inside, it exposes Buttner who isn't great defensively, it means midfielders spread wide leaving us open.
He has my backing, but let's not sugar coat it.
It's a pretty abysmal start so far.
We would have been well out of the title race if Chelsea and City were their ussual self.
Buck stops with the manager. This is an atrocious performance. Really really bad football.
This is extreme really, losing 4-0 to City and then 2-1 at home to West Brom is an order of results that Hull fans would be worried about.
He is fast becoming our Graeme Souness
I guarantee the pressure is on him now from above.
- Status