Valencia's been on his way back from injury and in poor form.
But he's a far more consistent player than Nani. Though his 'highest level' is lower than that of Nani at his best.
Nani
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Valencia's been on his way back from injury and in poor form.
But he's a far more consistent player than Nani. Though his 'highest level' is lower than that of Nani at his best.
can't agree with that.
Thanks for that piercing insight.
He looks more productive because he doesn't try to be nearly as flamboyant or deliver the magic but overall his stats aren't as good and he can't contribute to goals and chances like an on form Nani can.
Both are consistent in their own ways, but Nani pips it.
Valencia and Young are neither as good or as consistant as Nani.
Although I tell you who has been consistant over the last year: Carroll; he's been shit nearly everytime he's played.
Although I tell you who has been consistant over the last year: Carroll; he's been shit nearly everytime he's played.
He's consistently amusing, that's for sure. That woefully inept cameo almost took the sting out of watching the dippers beat Chelsea. Almost.
I think Nani's more consistent in terms of creating/scoring goals (and I don't want to underplay the importance of those) but in terms of things like keeping things tight defensively and keeping and using the ball well I'd choose Valencia. But that said, barring fitness/form issues I'd pick Nani to start for us every time, because he can make things happen.
Aye.ha ha, does he get an assist for that? really
I have his actual stats as being a lot more impressive than that. By my reckoning he's played 499 minutes this season and the only goal we've conceded was Long's goal for West Brom. 1,235 without him and we've conceded 15.
So:
Goals conceded per game with Vidic starting: 0.19
Goals conceded per game without Vidic staring: 1.15
I should have clarified: I included his game in the Charity Shield, which a couple of goalkeeper errors ruined his personal stats despite not doing much wrong.
Incredible record so far this season.
Well nobody would argue that, it's one of the reasons Valencia is used in Europe so much, because he's better at protecting our wingers, and really you could only call Valencia a better passer because he just plays it safe so much. It's 2 different styles I guess, but Nani's is in the end, despite being a pain sometimes, more productive.
In a way it sucks that they have to be compared, I guess it's because they play the same position, but despite both being wingers they're actually not very similar players at all.
Slight correction there after you quoted, as I use 95 minutes per game and not 90. But yes, mental, albeit over a much lesser timeframe reminds me of Rio's effect on our goals conceded per game last year.
You seem to significantly over rate Rooney. Rooney scored only one league goal in the first half of the last season. Arguably, he didn't contribute to a single point in that period. His only goal was from a pen vs Newcastle at home and his assists weren't decisive either. Yet we didn't lose a single game in the first half of the season and won as many points as we did in the second half of the season when Rooney was at his best. If the team is capable of coping so well without in form Rooney, his influence isn't as big as you seem to suggest. That's the only way to measure influence: look at the difference the player makes when he plays. There was no big difference between the first and the second half of last season in terms of points and goal difference. Hence, Rooney, as important as he is, isn't maybe that influential.
I used to dislike Nani. Now, I like to watch Nani and find him a more exciting player than Rooney. Rooney may be more important to the team because of his leadership and hard work but in terms of ability to produce magic moments Nani is the superior player, IMO.
Treble's stats strike again.
Things as poorly thought out as that usually need to be explained. Repeatedly. And then dismissed.
I don't really get the logic behind it, it's basically saying that a player having a poor game doesn't necessarily weaken the team.
I think Young will prove to be the better of him and Nani.
Nani is a good player but he is not a world beater as some suggest. Maybe one day he will be but he certainly isn't yet
Nani is a good player but he is not a world beater as some suggest. Maybe one day he will be but he certainly isn't yet
Young is older than Nani, that hardly helps.
Not comparing the 2, I don't think Young will ever be one of Europes best wingers, he's a good winger but not a possible "world beater"
Not comparing the 2, I don't think Young will ever be one of Europes best wingers, he's a good winger but not a possible "world beater"
Then Young definitely isnt.
No big difference? How big was the difference anyway? Not like you to not provide actual stats. Only it certainly felt as thought we were a much much better team in the second half of last season, when Rooney started to hit form.
And, as usual, some people need things explained to them more slowly than others. Or so it seems. Has the penny dropped yet?
Based on what?
On his day Nani really is a World Beater, no question. Is Young? I rate Young, class player but he'll sadly never reach those heights imo.
It's a pretty mad thing to say really. Young has never shown signs of potentially being one of the best wingers in the game, and to suggest that now, at 26 years of age he'll go on to "prove" he's the better player is a bit odd.
I haven't followed Young at Villa closely enough to be definite about his potential but I'd be very surprised if it's anywhere near Nani's. He gives me the impression of being a player who's already close to making the most of his abilities, while Nani's someone who's not quite making the most of his.
If/when he does, though, he could be as good as anyone in the league. I don't think I'd ever say that about Young.
If/when he does, though, he could be as good as anyone in the league. I don't think I'd ever say that about Young.
Well now that's something we can agree on, Nani definitely hasn't reached his full potential yet and I do think he will.
In games we struggle offensively, I feel we don't do enough to get Nani on the ball. I feel more than Rooney he can make magic happen - would love to see in games like the other day where we gave him more chance to make things happen.
18 league games before New Year's Eve - 38 points
20 league games after that - 42 points
We had 2 games in hand after Christmas as Chelsea and Blackpool were postponed. We were doing slightly better till Christmas (including the game vs Sunderland) than after that.
That's genuinely surprising. What about goal difference?
That we can agree on, for sure.
39-17 before New Year's Eve
39-20 after that
So, GD wise we did slightly better till Christmas, too.
Bizarre. I can't remember which way the fixture list was loaded but we must have had more difficult fixtures after January first, surely? There's no way I completely imagined the improvement in our football when Rooney finally hit form!
League form was similar, but in Europe we really stepped up a gear after casually strolling through the group stage.
We had Arsenal, Pool and City away all after Xmas I think?
I'm not sure why you think we were better in the 2nd half of the season though, for a month or two we were very good but before xmas Berbatov, Nani, Scholes were all really good and at home we were sublime. AFH we were pretty shit all season.
I guess the CL games against Chelsea and Schalke contribute but in the league we weren't that great. Arsenal and pool both bet us pretty comfortably.
I'm not sure why you think we were better in the 2nd half of the season though, for a month or two we were very good but before xmas Berbatov, Nani, Scholes were all really good and at home we were sublime. AFH we were pretty shit all season.
I guess the CL games against Chelsea and Schalke contribute but in the league we weren't that great. Arsenal and pool both bet us pretty comfortably.
Both of those games, it should be noted, came at the end of weeks in which we'd played away games, and our opponents had had the week off. We were a better team in the second half of the year, but we had a much tougher schedule.
Well there you go.
EDIT: Just checked. Played Chelsea home and away, Spurs away, Liverpool away and Arsenal away. The City game was at home.
Aren't we always a better team in the 2nd half of the year though, regardless of who's in the squad? It's how we've always done things, not just last year.
I think there are things stat cannot tell you.In this case I believe it's one of these.Rooney's presence improved the entire team in the second half of the season.There is no doubt about it despite what the numbers said.
Stats are a great tool but you can get a lot of different interpretations from them
I think the big difference between the first and the second half of last season were the games vs Chelsea. We played some lovely football against Chelsea with Rooney being fantastic in 3 of those games. Apart from those Chelsea games and the first game vs Schalke away, we weren't particularly great and had poor games throughout the second half of the season. With hindsight, we shouldn't have being that surprised that Barcelona completely outplayed us in the final.
WBrom away - Rooney won us the game but we didn't deserve the win and were terrible
Spurs away - solid performance in defence, utterly toothless in attack
Blackpool away - poor performance apart from the last 20 min
Woolves away - poor
Marseille away - average
Liverpool away - poor
Bolton home - unconvincing
Newcastle away - average
Everton home - uninspiring
Arsenal - poor
Blackburn away - poor
WBrom away - Rooney won us the game but we didn't deserve the win and were terrible
Spurs away - solid performance in defence, utterly toothless in attack
Blackpool away - poor performance apart from the last 20 min
Woolves away - poor
Marseille away - average
Liverpool away - poor
Bolton home - unconvincing
Newcastle away - average
Everton home - uninspiring
Arsenal - poor
Blackburn away - poor
Things from illogical minds needs to be explained. Because it's illogical.
Anyways, my point was about how these two players firing give us a different dimension in attack. Then you started taking the thread in a different direction talking about 'bottom levels', early season form and other such nonsense including a comparison between the two.
Rooney is more influential but they are influential in different ways. The individual brilliance nani brings when he's on song is something noone else does. Rooney has other qualities which make him hugely influential when in form. The amount of influence each exerts can be debated endlessly but imo thes are the two attackers who give us as an attacking the biggest lift when in form. Hence we need (loosely used) one of them to fire.
And let's not forget the hernandez factor either.
And also our defence was poor early on giving away leads all the time.
Good point. We played great football in attack back then but stupidly lost points vs Everton and Fulham away and were on the way to do the same vs Liverpool.