Still don't get this Young business, would much rather we signed a left-footer to give us more options on the left flank.
Nani
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
How can he be SO inconstant and still win player of the year by his team mates who form the champions? If he's more inconsistent than most then what does that make the other wingers of the league?
Yes, he is more inconsistent than a Valencia who is more of a percentage player but less likely to beat a player with a piece of skill and thump the ball into the back of the net. That's the trade off you make with a player like Nani or Valencia whichever way you look at it. And yes, he can of course improve. No one will deny that. He can get more consistent with his delivery for one.
But IMO it's rather silly to just label him a very inconsistent player when a) he's been acknowledged as one of the best and the best by many this season and b) he is the sort of player who will ALWAYS be a little more inconsistent in his game than some. The reason I bring up the Ronaldo comparison is because it is relevant in some ways. Ronaldo DOES let you down many a time in his buildup play. But you accept it because in the final third he can produce 4 or 5 great moments in a game, one or more which often result in being decisive. Nani hasn't reached that level yet (which is no shame given none of our players have) but the concept is the same. He is more likely to produce a moment of magic than any other attacker we have, maybe along with an inform Rooney. And that's worth the negatives.
He probably won't start the final but that's really because we play only one winger in big games and at this point in time he is out of form and Valencia is in form. If we had a striker who can drop deep and help out like Rooney can (and not Berbatov who isn't the most versatile striker) and Rooney was in his first half of the season form, then he wouldn't start either.
I think it's important to define what one means by inconsistency. If you're talking about inconsistency during the course of a game then he can get better at it but to some degree it has to be accepted and doesn't stop him from being a fine fine player. If we're talking about his bad form then that doesn't make him inconsistent either IMO because for a majority of the season he was the player we relied on. I reckon someone like Anderson is inconsistent right now who has 3 good games and 2 bad ones over the course of 5.
Yes, he is more inconsistent than a Valencia who is more of a percentage player but less likely to beat a player with a piece of skill and thump the ball into the back of the net. That's the trade off you make with a player like Nani or Valencia whichever way you look at it. And yes, he can of course improve. No one will deny that. He can get more consistent with his delivery for one.
But IMO it's rather silly to just label him a very inconsistent player when a) he's been acknowledged as one of the best and the best by many this season and b) he is the sort of player who will ALWAYS be a little more inconsistent in his game than some. The reason I bring up the Ronaldo comparison is because it is relevant in some ways. Ronaldo DOES let you down many a time in his buildup play. But you accept it because in the final third he can produce 4 or 5 great moments in a game, one or more which often result in being decisive. Nani hasn't reached that level yet (which is no shame given none of our players have) but the concept is the same. He is more likely to produce a moment of magic than any other attacker we have, maybe along with an inform Rooney. And that's worth the negatives.
He probably won't start the final but that's really because we play only one winger in big games and at this point in time he is out of form and Valencia is in form. If we had a striker who can drop deep and help out like Rooney can (and not Berbatov who isn't the most versatile striker) and Rooney was in his first half of the season form, then he wouldn't start either.
I think it's important to define what one means by inconsistency. If you're talking about inconsistency during the course of a game then he can get better at it but to some degree it has to be accepted and doesn't stop him from being a fine fine player. If we're talking about his bad form then that doesn't make him inconsistent either IMO because for a majority of the season he was the player we relied on. I reckon someone like Anderson is inconsistent right now who has 3 good games and 2 bad ones over the course of 5.
I am. It won't be easy for him to establish himself with the wing talent we have but Giggs can't go on forever and Park is already 30 so I think he will get his chances (probably not in the league but since Nani, Park and Giggs probably won't be playing a lot of cup matches and meaningless CL group stage matches Tom, in my eyes at least, is effectively first choice for those matches) and in a few years time he could be fighting for a regular starting place. It also helps that he is versatile and could potentially play through the middle as well, but even more importantly I think his skill set is such that he will really benefit from playing with better players around him. I'm talking specifically about his off the ball movement which I think is really intelligent and effective, and his short passing combinations (I actually think he could be really good in Arsenal's system). When you add onto that his excellent defensive work rate and discipline and his direct goal threat I think you have a very promising player. A Park-type with more goals and assists is basically what I see his ceiling as, and there is always a need for that kind of player in a squad.
I can't understand why Aaron is on a Nani thread when he clearly doesn't rate Nani...
18 assists + 10 goals this season, who was pulling the results for us in the early stages of the season Aaron ? Was it Valencia ?
Just stop with the gibberish about inconsistencies... If your calling Nani that, all the top wingers in the world would be inconsistent... Their in a position to be that be with a moment of brilliance, they are able to change the game and thats what we expect of Nani....
18 assists + 10 goals this season, who was pulling the results for us in the early stages of the season Aaron ? Was it Valencia ?
Just stop with the gibberish about inconsistencies... If your calling Nani that, all the top wingers in the world would be inconsistent... Their in a position to be that be with a moment of brilliance, they are able to change the game and thats what we expect of Nani....
It's called an agenda.
I think it's crazy. From January/February 2010 to February 2011 Nani was ridiculously consistent. He's allowed a dip in form, and will be back fresh next season.
He's just not his kind of player, same with Name_Changed and plenty of others. They notice the flaws of his games more than others, they annoy them more. They prefer the more reliable, simple and smart players. I don't see why people have such a big issue with it or try to contest him on it - it's ingrained into how he perceives the game, that won't really change by people explaining their own viewpoint.
Indeed.
It's really not worth debating Nani with some people (maybe a certain one in particular) who post on this forum. They just don't like him.
His dip in form came after a ferocious tackle by Carragher... And he had to quickly comeback and played that Marsaille game...
Other than that, he's been the our best player of the season... Some people have short memories.
Other than that, he's been the our best player of the season... Some people have short memories.
Preference is one thing and constant criticism which is not warranted nor applicable is another. I prefer Nani to Valencia (I think) but I have nothing against Valencia. He's a class player. Having strong feelings against or for individuals and pushing that irrespective of reality has been a particular downside to the caf in recent years. Agenda is another word for it.
Also, when I look at a post that individuals posting history including likes and dislikes doesn't automatically pop up and neither do I do a half an hour background check either.
Like feck it is. I just have a different opinion on the player than some others. I didn't realise we all had to share the same cnuting opinion before being allowed to post on a thread. If you have a problem with someone having a different opinion than you on an internet forum, feck off an read a book, as Fergie might say.
I'm not aggressive it just gets boring when the same 'gang' pop up and some how try to self-regulate the Cafe whereas only people who agree with them are allowed to post in certain threads.
Posters who go on and on about how much they dislike a United player, either openly or subtly, will always catch the attention - that's how it's always been, whether it being R. Nilsson, Johnno, Ekeke, Johnmufc, Scholesy, you, or someone else.
Not at all. In the thread asking the QUESTION if Nani was the best winger in the country, I suggested Valencia was.
"Oh shut up, why post here if you don't think Nani is the best winger in the country, oh you've got an agenda"
etc.
It's absurd.
"Oh shut up, why post here if you don't think Nani is the best winger in the country, oh you've got an agenda"
etc.
It's absurd.
I'm one who encourages people to give their opinion more than most here. Except when it becomes apparent that people 'dislike' a certain player and will push that argument forward irrespective of reality.
Like this you mean?
I mean if you hate Gibson and have an agenda about him, why bother to post here?
I don't dislike Gibson. I just don't rate him. But when he plays well I do praise him. And I think it is very very unfair to Evans to compare his accomplishments at the club to Gibson's, although Evans has undone some of that.
Watch if I say the same when he's been voted by his fellow United players as the player of the season.
Although I will admit the 'premiership level player' comment was a poor one in hindsight.
You probably won't as I've long suspected you're not actually capable of independent thought.
You're just a hypocrite, really.
Jog along, Aaron. Come back when you're over 10. Logic doesn't seem to apply to the space between your ears. Only childish talk does.
Another interesting response you gave in the thread after others were critical of you being critical of a player.
Give over bickering you two.
Let's just go back to posting about how Nani is the best winger in the PL.
That way we'll all be happy because no-one can argue about that now can they.
Let's just go back to posting about how Nani is the best winger in the PL.
That way we'll all be happy because no-one can argue about that now can they.
Do you realize you stopped makings sense ages ago?
You for some reason seem to think you're being criticized for being critical. Not at all. It's perfectly alright to criticize a player.
Good lad. I knew you'd agree.
Apparently, we can't.
Yeah, back on topic. So I think it's a big decision for Fergie whether to play Nani for the final but I think the team that beat Chelsea must definitely be leading the race. That was just about the perfect team performance (apart from finishing) and it's so recent that barring some one looking really poor in training or not being fit or of course a specific tactic Fergie decides to employ, I think we'll start with that lot.
There is a difference bewteen Agenda Posting and not rating a player but being happy to praise him when he plays well, even though you still think on the whole he's shit. Many have a problem with the former, but there is nothing wrong with the latter.
Unless of course you were proved wrong (regarding he was shit) and refuse to budge... then it drifts into agenda-posting.
Unless of course you were proved wrong (regarding he was shit) and refuse to budge... then it drifts into agenda-posting.
Don't bring it back 'on topic' as if you weren't the one who moved it off topic in the first place with your hypocritical "oh my, someone has been critical of a player i like" nonsense.
I'd agree. I've repeatedly said Nani is maturing into a brilliant player. I still maintain he has creases in his game that are substantial enough to stop him as of yet being called one of the best in the world but I've said dozens of times that he's improving as a player all the time.
But apparently I "dislike him", so there you go.
Dry your eyes and move on, girl.
Erm, weren't you the one who said as much yourself in a thread titled United Players You Don't Like?
Not really, I was just getting into the spirit of the thread with some others. I'd surely have imagined that anyone with common sense would have seen that thread for what it was. But as I said myself at the time, I think before I posted anything, they'll be people who will read that thread and quote posters out of it and out of context when it suits them in an argument elsewhere.
Predictable really.
I think, injury problems permitting, he'll be used as an 'impact' player vs Barcelona for the last 20 minutes, regardless of what the score is, to stretch them at the back.
If we're leading it'll be for someone like Hernandez who you'd expect would have been running like a bitch all game up until that point.
If we're leading it'll be for someone like Hernandez who you'd expect would have been running like a bitch all game up until that point.
So you post that you don't like Nani in a thread about United players you don't like, then are complaining when people say that you don't like Nani in other threads?!
I admit I prefer players that are extremely reliable and consistent. There is nothing wrong with that. I does not mean I do not see Nani's talents or admire what he can do. I have not critisised Nani other to say than to say he is inconsistent within games and to say I thought Hernandez & Vidic had better seasons. With the talents he has, there should be not doubt about his place in the team. However, I would be of the opinion that he won't start the Champions League Final, and there is a reason for that. If Ferguson was sure that the consistent Nani would get a goal or assist in the match, he would definitely start. But isn't it more likely that Park and Valencia will be trusted to start? I don't know, it's only my opinion that these two will be picked.
Just because you prefer flair players over reliable players does not mean that you are right. It's a matter of opinion, not fact.
Nani has had an extremely good season. I doubt many will argue against that. In fact, I never actually said anything to the contrary.
We're certainly not the same gang, its mostly about how unreasonable you are and how you are biased towards Valencia > Nani...
When clearly this season Nani has done a lot more than Valencia... You go on about how Valencia is more consistent etc....
If you said Nani was a good player in a Nani thread then they'll be no debate here... Some PPL rate him, others don't, but clearly he has been instrumental in "19" so I don't really understand what your ranting about Aaron...
So if I think Nani could improve as a player, where would I say that if not in a Nani thread?
Perhaps in future all Nani opinions other than out and out praise should go here?
https://www.redcafe.net/f8/artifici...-antarctic-ice-330137/index2.html#post9802286
Perhaps in future all Nani opinions other than out and out praise should go here?
https://www.redcafe.net/f8/artifici...-antarctic-ice-330137/index2.html#post9802286
It's a Manchester United fans message board not a Nani fan club society.
Some people think Carrick is better than Fletcher or Rafael is better than Fabio or Berbatov better than Hernandez. They don't cry about it though or ask why someone would go into a 'Fabio' thread with the opinion that he's not quite as good as his brother and then accuse those who do of having an 'agenda'.
A thread title 'Nani' gives no indication or suggestion that the only opinion are allowed are those that say Nani is world class and doesn't have a flaw to his game.
This is what people misunderstand. They seem to think that if you post in a thread about a player, it has to be universal praise. It doesn't and people who criticise me for critiquing Nani, hypocritically, also are critical of other players elsewhere. So I'm not getting it, really.
You're not getting it because you're misunderstanding the criticism (of you). It isn't because you think Valencia is better or that you are critical of Nani. We all praise our players and criticize them when we feel necessary. Valencia himself is a quality player and while I don't agree, it's perfectly fine to prefer him or rate him higher. But your posts on Nani come across as incredibly biased. The tone of your posts regarding Nani seem to be overly negative and have some strange content I can't fathom, which is odd for a player whose just stepped his game a level up this season and has been regarded by his peers as the best United player of the season (which isn't the be all and end all of everything but is a good indicator).
Anyways, I don't mean to drag our 'spat' on. I just thought it should be cleared up why that was thought of about you in the first place. It's fine if you disagree. You're totally entitled to.
Anyways, I don't mean to drag our 'spat' on. I just thought it should be cleared up why that was thought of about you in the first place. It's fine if you disagree. You're totally entitled to.