Nani

Striker10 said:
it's not about getting one over rival fans. I see what you do, you're very persistant and rightly so

However it's not that complicated. If I say potential - I could say, 'well in the future, just imagine what he can do against those teams'....

In the past he's scored against liverpool and Arsenal.

Oh and incidently it's 26th of october. The season ends in may.......
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I know its october. I'm doing my tax returns.

so if I am to understand your point. despite being in his 3rd season at the club, being bought for 17milliion for another european team where he was also a first team player, that Nani is not to be judged on his appearances so far and instead we are to remain completely positive and optimistic about him cos at some point in the future (and maybe in a galaxy far far away) Luis Nani is going to be just brill.

I'll tell you what when it happens i will be the first on here to say I am wrong. But I get the feeling I wont have to. Sadly
 
Striker10 said:
the key point was valencia had experience of this league, and as the new buy why the feck wouldn't you play him?...
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gotta be honest that is singularly the worst point ever made by anyone on here.

(psst...Nani has been playing prem football for 3 seasons now)
 
Legend16 said:
I'll tell you what when it happens i will be the first on here to say I am wrong. But I get the feeling I wont have to. Sadly
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We shall see. In my opinion he's got everything to do it, it's always been his attitude thats been the main issue. He seems to have addressed that this year and come out looking more determined and his form has improved and he's getting alot more games because of it.

Don't think any of us are saying he had a good season last year because he didn't. But i'm not writing him off because he had 1 bad year, just like i'm not writing off Berbatov either, or Anderson...

I do think this is a make or break season for Nani however. If he doesn't perform then we have youngsters coming through and no doubt we'll look in the market. But my opinion is that he'll come good.
 
Striker10 said:
that's an example, that's not an assumption. Your making a complete assumpion. Why? Cause I added one of these: ? <-

I recognize your points but the facts don't back you up.

And incidently, who's right and who's wrong? The fact is nani is a united player and therefore your opinion means feck all. Now, how can you beat that?

Well I know, prove Nani wasn't played for the reasons you think and then by all means brag about how right you were. In the mean time, whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt and support?..

You give up when the going get's 'tough'?..is that nani's problem or yours?..
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are you alright in the head?

there is so much wrong with that post its hard to know where to start.

so its ok to have an opinion of a player so long as its positive. anything else is to be dismissed

feck sake. can you please stick to debating Nani's contribution to united. otherwise this argument is ridiculous.
 
RedSky At Night said:
We shall see. In my opinion he's got everything to do it, it's always been his attitude thats been the main issue. He seems to have addressed that this year and come out looking more determined and his form has improved and he's getting alot more games because of it.

Don't think any of us are saying he had a good season last year because he didn't. But i'm not writing him off because he had 1 bad year, just like i'm not writing off Berbatov either, or Anderson...

I do think this is a make or break season for Nani however. If he doesn't perform then we have youngsters coming through and no doubt we'll look in the market. But my opinion is that he'll come good.
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well that is a well made point and a considered opinion and I respect that. I however believe we have seen enough of Nani to make a decent judgement. And I am not hopeful for the lad. I think he has ability, and I think he can do well somewhere. But I personally feel United is a step too high for him. And I have seen nothing to date to change that opinion
 
Legend16 said:
gotta be honest that is singularly the worst point ever made by anyone on here.

(psst...Nani has been playing prem football for 3 seasons now)
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Valencia is been starting for wigan for how many seasons now? He's older than nani and is a key player for his country. How many games did nani start last season? Nani needs a run of games and only with experience will his decision making get better. He started a lot in his first season and was a very important player for us at the beginning of his first season. That goal against tottenham was great and won the game for us. He also scored a great goal against boro too. He has the potential to be a top5 winger in the world I reckon.
 
Striker10 said:
it's not about getting one over rival fans. I see what you do, you're very persistant and rightly so

However it's not that complicated. If I say potential - I could say, 'well in the future, just imagine what he can do against those teams'....

In the past he's scored against liverpool and Arsenal.

Oh and incidently it's 26th of october. The season ends in may.......
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He's also scored against Chelsea. So thats all of the big 4. How many of our players have done that?

Rooney only finished scoring against the 3 big ones in 2008 didnt he? I only have league goals in front of me, so maybe he scored before then against Chelsea. So Rooney has done it.

Looking through his league goals in English football, I almost thought I'd found that Berbatov hasnt managed scoring against the other big 3 sides in English football. But looking further back he did manage to score against Liverpool for Leverkusen in 2002 - So he's managed it too.

Owen, Scholes and Giggs have managed it I'm sure. So our strikers + two of our veterans. But it looks like Nani is the only other one to score against all of our domestic rivals. And he's been in English football a lot shorter than all the rest.
 
Legend16 said:
And I am not hopeful for the lad. I think he has ability, and I think he can do well somewhere. But I personally feel United is a step too high for him. And I have seen nothing to date to change that opinion
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Thats fair enough, personally I've never doubted his ability, he seems to get a high number of assists/goals with limited playing time. My critism has always been his attitude: "i'm the new Ronaldo".

He looks now to believe that he is "the new Nani". Ronaldo leaving will be a positive thing for Nani, give him more games (that he's getting this season) and another screamer of a goal and I think he'll push his game up another level.

He'll come good this year, have a bit of faith, the signs are there. Espically now that Giggs' form maybe dipping we'll be needing Nani to bag some assists.
 
ecantona7 said:
Valencia is been starting for wigan for how many seasons now? He's older than nani and is a key player for his country. How many games did nani start last season? Nani needs a run of games and only with experience will his decision making get better. He started a lot in his first season and was a very important player for us at the beginning of his first season. That goal against tottenham was great and won the game for us. He also scored a great goal against boro too. He has the potential to be a top5 winger in the world I reckon.
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nani has had as much time as valencia to be a hit in the prem league, valencia has not only done well in a lesser team but he has come to united and early in his career is showing signs of being a good signing. so did nani. I would suggest that if Valencia is on the bench and barely featuring for united in 2 seasons time and performing as frustratingly as nani is now that serious questions will be asked of him too.

also he is a year older than nani. so the age argument is not terribly relevant
 
RedSky At Night said:
Thats fair enough, personally I've never doubted his ability, he seems to get a high number of assists/goals with limited playing time. My critism has always been his attitude: "i'm the new Ronaldo".

He looks now to believe that he is "the new Nani". Ronaldo leaving will be a positive thing for Nani, give him more games (that he's getting this season) and another screamer of a goal and I think he'll push his game up another level.

He'll come good this year, have a bit of faith, the signs are there. Espically now that Giggs' form maybe dipping we'll be needing Nani to bag some assists.
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He's always brushed off comparisons and has said he is his own player so what do you mean, he believes he's the new Ronaldo? Unfair criticism in my opinion.
 
ecantona7 said:
Valencia is been starting for wigan for how many seasons now? He's older than nani and is a key player for his country. How many games did nani start last season? Nani needs a run of games and only with experience will his decision making get better. He started a lot in his first season and was a very important player for us at the beginning of his first season. That goal against tottenham was great and won the game for us. He also scored a great goal against boro too. He has the potential to be a top5 winger in the world I reckon.
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I agree with every word said.

Of course we can't be sure whether he will REALLY make it at united, but as things stand atm I'm confident he will.

Important will be how many games he will get in the end, but with his ablitly to play on both flanks, with Park not beeing used as much as last year and Giggs often beeing played in CM I'M sure he will get enough games to get into some good form and confidence.
 
Legend16 said:
nani has had as much time as valencia to be a hit in the prem league, valencia has not only done well in a lesser team but he has come to united and early in his career is showing signs of being a good signing. so did nani. I would suggest that if Valencia is on the bench and barely featuring for united in 2 seasons time and performing as frustratingly as nani is now that serious questions will be asked of him too.

also he is a year older than nani. so the age argument is not terribly relevant
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If nani was at wigan he would've started the majority of their games for them too. At wigan, valencia gained a lot more experience in the PL than nani had at united which was my point.
 
Boss said:
He's always brushed off comparisons and has said he is his own player so what do you mean, he believes he's the new Ronaldo? Unfair criticism in my opinion.
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Come now, i'm a supporter of Nani, but his first 2 seasons he was trying to be Ronaldo II. Trying to play exactly like Ronaldo and do the step overs etc.

I can understand why, he's grown up with Ronaldo and i'm sure they both have impacted each others games considering they play in the same position.

He seems to be losing the tricks this year and concentrating more on his actual game. Which is naturally helping his form. He's always been a showboat.
 
RedSky At Night said:
Come now, i'm a supporter of Nani, but his first 2 seasons he was trying to be Ronaldo II. Trying to play exactly like Ronaldo and do the step overs etc.
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Do you think so? I don't have the feeling that he really tries to be like Ronaldo, he playes hugely different compared to him and just because he does some stepovers I don't think that we can draw the conclusion that he wants to be Ronaldo II.
 
ecantona7 said:
If nani was at wigan he would've started the majority of their games for them too. At wigan, valencia gained a lot more experience in the PL than nani had at united which was my point.
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and why is nani not in our team? is it because he is brilliant, has great potential and with a run of games could be a world beater. do ye think someone should tell SAF that Nani is an amazing player with loads of potential and that all he needs is a run in the team. Fergie in fairness would not have a clue when it comes to that stuff and should be told.

or could it be that in attitude and performance so far SAF does not think he merits a place in the team.

in which case would it be fair to say Nani has not progressed as we all hoped in the past couple of seasons and questions need to be asked as to whether he will ever make it
 
Godfather said:
Do you think so? I don't have the feeling that he really tries to be like Ronaldo, he playes hugely different compared to him and just because he does some stepovers I don't think that we can draw the conclusion that he wants to be Ronaldo II.
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I've always thought he was trying to mimick Ronnie right from his 1st game, showboat, petulance, selfish etc. I maybe wrong mind, maybe its just a Portugese trait :)

Either way, those bad points have been a shadow this year and looks far more positive for it.
 
Legend16 said:
and why is nani not in our team?
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He has been though (8th highest player this year (third time i've made this point catch up)).

He's also had Giggs (in argubally the form of his life clocking up 8 assists, 6 more than Nani and everyone else in the team) fighting for his position. SAF obviousally feels that Nani should be playing on the left and has been trying to bed in Valencia on the right. Which is the right thing to do.

I don't think that argument stands up tbh Legend. Not this season.
 
RedSky At Night said:
He has been though (8th highest player this year (third time i've made this point catch up)).

He's also had Giggs (in argubally the form of his life clocking up 8 assists, 6 more than Nani and everyone else in the team) fighting for his position. SAF obviousally feels that Nani should be playing on the left and has been trying to bed in Valencia on the right. Which is the right thing to do.

I don't think that argument stands up tbh Legend. Not this season.
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I read the point before. What I am saying is is Nani a starter in our team? When the big games come around is Nani A.likely to be picked and B. likely to perform. Unfortunately for the last couple of seasons that is a no.
 
Legend16 said:
gotta be honest that is singularly the worst point ever made by anyone on here.

(psst...Nani has been playing prem football for 3 seasons now)
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it ain't.

You are just misunderstanding the context.

Nani playing here for 3 years is irrelevent. Valencia being the new buy will get in the first team now as the years he's played in the premiership have impressed the boss (not to mention he's the new buy).. and unlike tosic he's proved he's strong enough to handle it.

I hope you now understand......

They're not competing against each other. Valencia isn't keeping nani out of the side.....

And once again you can tell no one, 100% why nani has missed a few games and you've not told us the percentage of games he's played.....

Rather you try to one up and it ain't working for you today
 
Striker10 said:
it ain't.

You are just misunderstanding the context.

Nani playing here for 3 years is irrelevent.

Valencia being the new buy will get in the first team now as the years he's played in the premiership have impressed the boss and unlike tosic he's proved he's strong enough to handle it.

I hope you now understand......
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you're stacking them up now

poor old tosic has done nothing to get judged yet. I'd like to think in his 3rd season at united with plenty of first team starts we may form an opinion of him though.
 
Legend16 said:
I read the point before. What I am saying is is Nani a starter in our team? When the big games come around is Nani A.likely to be picked and B. likely to perform. Unfortunately for the last couple of seasons that is a no.
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He's not an automatic starter, but there are very few players who are. Hell, only Rooney, Rio, Vidic and VDS are. Even Rio and Vidic are under pressure from Evans.

It's what makes us a great team, all of our players are fighting it out each week for a starting place. To answer your question:

A: Likely to be picked? See above
B: Likely to perform? Well he performed fine in his first season, his 2nd was pretty woeful, but he's started well this year. So i'd say he has a fair chance of impressing, like he has done for the majority of this season so far.
 
you just don't get it. nani and valencia don't play on the same wing....

Valencia being the new buy will get plenty of games to impress and show the fans what he can do. While Nani has already played plenty and will play plenty of games if we go by the numbers he's already played

This is my last responce as your obviously unable to prove anything you've imagined which therefore means your reaching...

goodluck with that btw..

ps: The tosic opinion (I rate him btw) he would be in competition more likely with Nani...but this is irrelevent anyway so we can forget that
 
Striker10 said:
it ain't.

You are just misunderstanding the context.

Nani playing here for 3 years is irrelevent. Valencia being the new buy will get in the first team now as the years he's played in the premiership have impressed the boss (not to mention he's the new buy).. and unlike tosic he's proved he's strong enough to handle it.

I hope you now understand......

They're not competing against each other. Valencia isn't keeping nani out of the side.....

And once again you can tell no one, 100% why nani has missed a few games and you've not told us the percentage of games he's played.....

Rather you try to one up and it ain't working for you today
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what are you talking about? one up....

I have no intention of one upping anyone. I'm judging Nani on his united career so far. One that has not impressed. could you try to do the same


valencia and nani can be compared.

they are similiar ages, cost the same money and are having similiar debut seasons.

I suggest if valencia is as unconvincing as nani in 2 seasons time people will ask the same questions of him
 
Simon Adebesi said:
That strikes me as a very bizarre interpretation.
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Nani left valencia right..seems simple enough - both maybe can switch..simple enough

I would say tosic is more after nani's place and park and maybe obertan in competition with valencia though obertan can drift
 
Striker10 said:
you just don't get it. nani and valencia don't play on the same wing....

Valencia being the new buy will get plenty of games to impress and show the fans what he can do. While Nani has already played plenty and will play plenty of games if we go by the numbers he's already played

This is my last responce as your obviously unable to prove anything you've imagined which therefore means your reaching...

goodluck with that btw..

ps: The tosic opinion (I rate him btw) he would be in competition more likely with Nani...but this is irrelevent anyway so we can forget that
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dear jesus let that be so
 
RedSky At Night said:
When was the last time Nani started a game on the right? It's fair i'd say.

Valencia was bought to play on the right and Nani has always played on the left.

Valencia/Park - Right
Nani/Giggs - Left
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could we possibly get back to rating or not rating nani
 
Legend16 said:
dear jesus let that be so
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dude you've made not one good point. What the feck is your point? All we have from you is a stubbon opinion based on no fact - ie he's not playing because he ain't good enough .....he's 'going backwards'...
 
Striker10 said:
dude you've made not one good point. What the feck is your point? All we have from you is a stubbon opinion based on no fact - ie he's not playing because he ain't good enough .....he's 'going backwards'...
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oh and there's me labouring under the misconception I have a point of view.

and the facts that support Nani being a great player are..........sorry you will have to run over them again. did you have any?
 
Legend16 said:
oh and there's me labouring under the misconception I have a point of view.

and the facts that support Nani being a great player are..........sorry you will have to run over them again. did you have any?
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yeah you have a point of view, an opinion. However are you respecting others? no your not. Your stubbon like we are. So don't bring up that card as we're not using it

What facts do I have to dig up? Was fletcher always a good player? Was berbatov a great player last season? Was rio always the top player?

What this is, your being stubbon and trying to get one over the people trying to support him (which is natural) by, asking us to do whatever..

You have jumped to a completely negative opinion but the facts don't back you up and you have not exactly proved yourself to be correct. Therefore you should maybe have an open mind

I'm not personally saying your wrong - but I don't jump to conclusions and I don't think we should based on the fact, we don't know all the facts..

You have answered none of our questions. So I ask if you have any? Cause I don't see any and if your the kind of person who in october in his third season - the second really where he's featuring in at all - calls that three seasons rather then 2 and a bit..then your a bit nieve
 
Legend16 said:
oh and there's me labouring under the misconception I have a point of view.

and the facts that support Nani being a great player are..........sorry you will have to run over them again. did you have any?
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2 footed, pace, power, first touch, technique. All the key attributes.
 
Nani isnt going backwards. In fact I would say he is going forwards. But he isnt going quickly enough.

I actually dont know when Nani last started on the right. The implication of your question is it has been a long time, and Ill take your word for that. But he is well capable of it. If he merited a start, Fergie would give him one. And given Giggs' form, he could get games on the right.

Even if you work on the assumption that for some reason, Nani is not in contention to start on the right, despite his clear ability to play there, but through no connection to the level of his performances, you would have to say Fergie seems nervous about playing them both at the same time against top opposition, and the evidence suggests if he was going to go with one then he will go with Valencia. Which seems rational to me seeing as at the moment he looks better.

I havent reached the end of my tether with Nani yet as many people have. But he continues to frustrate the hell out of me.
 
Ekeke said:
Looking through his league goals in English football, I almost thought I'd found that Berbatov hasnt managed scoring against the other big 3 sides in English football. But looking further back he did manage to score against Liverpool for Leverkusen in 2002 - So he's managed it too.
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Forgetting his goal(s?) against Arsenal for Spurs?
 
Striker10 said:
dude you've made not one good point. What the feck is your point? All we have from you is a stubbon opinion based on no fact - ie he's not playing because he ain't good enough .....he's 'going backwards'...
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That's not "no fact", it's an accurate reflection of what's happening. If he was playing better he'd be starting more games. The reason he's not starting more games is because he's not made the most of his opportunities.

That's a statement that needs to keep being repeated because, for some reason, there's a lot of people on here that find it incredibly hard to grasp.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's not "no fact", it's an accurate reflection of what's happening. If he was playing better he'd be starting more games. The reason he's not starting more games is because he's not made the most of his opportunities.

That's a statement that needs to keep being repeated because, for some reason, there's a lot of people on here that find it incredibly hard to grasp.
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Its extraordinary isnt it. Someone doesnt get games, but the suggestion that the reason for this might be that he isnt playing well enough is ridiculed as though it were the most far fetched suggestion ever to be made.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's a statement that needs to keep being repeated because, for some reason, there's a lot of people on here that find it incredibly hard to grasp.
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Putting it bluntly, for the 4th fecking time.

He's started plenty of games this season, 8th in current stats. Above Giggs and just below Valencia. The point is not valid this season Pogue.
 
He doesnt seem to have much pace anymore, which is quite strange. He doesnt beat his man anymore either.
 
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