Nani

[Striker10]

no one is disputing it takes bottle and kudos to the kid. but to suggest that penalty puts him above criticism or critique 2 seasons later is silly. seriously are you really going to dismiss Nanis poor performances with the retort 'hey he took a penalty for us 2 years ago'

look he's not beyond critism BUT it's a witchhunt. The kid came on for 20 or whatever minutes and who's performance are you focusing on? You don't even know if he was 99% fit...

Why are you focusing on nani for?..

Not everyone is suited for coming on as a sub. I don't think some appriciate how hard it can be to fit into the pace of the game and make an impact

I think at the time, our confidence was low at best and what do people expect? People need to get real

Two years has nothing to do with 20 minutes yesterday....so why are you putting all this on nani for?..

It was the previous 70 that lost us the game

 

[Legend16]

Nani should be starting alot of our games imo

I am sure SAF would like to be seeing the sort of performances in training and in appearances that would merit a starting place regularly. He obviously is not. do you really think SAF is saying 'best way to get Nani playing well is to leave him out of the 11'. Of course not. But he obviously is not seeing a player worthy of inclusion

 

[Top]

but to suggest that penalty puts him above criticism or critique 2 seasons later is silly

You'll struggle to find a player who has received as much stick by United fans this past year as Nani has.

Only refreshing to see someone like Striker10 not jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[esmufc07]

I'm at a loss as to why he is getting criticised again considering the little amount of time he played and how poorly the team were playing even before he came on.

Strange.

 

[Legend16]

look he's not beyond critism BUT it's a witchhunt. The kid came on for 20 or whatever minutes and who's performance are you focusing on? You don't even know if he was 99% fit...

Why are you focusing on nani for?..

if you cared to read my posts properly you would see that I am at pains to state that yesterdays performance is not a fair judgement on the lad.

this however is a thread that is here to discuss Nani and I'm trying to make a judgement based on his career so far whether the discussion is happening today, tomorrow or a month from now

 

[Legend16]

You'll struggle to find a player who has received as much stick by United fans this past year as Nani has.

Only refreshing to see someone like Striker10 not jumping on the bandwagon.

berbatov has

 

[RedSky]

and I'm not buying that he is beyond criticism. a lot of people were excited when nani signed. I was. but we have not seen the player we thought we were getting.

some people want to blame his lack of opportunities and the fact that the crowd are not supporting him.

that is doing him, SAF and the crowd a serious disservice. cos as with any player if they are good enough and performing to a high level then SAF will put them in the first 11, and the crowd will cheer him to the rafters. He isn't and he hasn't. And it looks like he wont. and all the fanboy cheering in the world will not help luis nani make the right decisions with the ball at his feet. he either has it or he doesn't. right now the latter is the strongest possibility.

The simple fact is that 3 seasons since he joined the club he is not doing it. Bearing in mind he came from another league where he had been playing and not straight from the pram as some would have you believe, then his contribution so far is massively disappointing and not improving in the slightest

Not buying that either. Nani got more assists than Park/Tevez/Scholes in the PL last season after only starting 7 games (played 13, 546 mins of football). To put that into perspective, Nani has already played 376 mins of PL football this season.

Yes he can be frustrating at times, but he's also been very productive. His first year he got 14 assists, 2nd highest I believe. What is Nani meant to do exactly? If he isn't playing (546mins of PL football is feck all), then how can he improve?

In my opinion, Nani should be our penalty taker, he seems to be the most capable of scoring pens in the squad. I'd start him every game if I had my way, not push him out on the bench. But unfortunatly for Nani this year he's had an immense Giggs in his way.

 

[Striker10]

if you cared to read my posts properly you would see that I am at pains to state that yesterdays performance is not a fair judgement on the lad.

this however is a thread that is here to discuss Nani and I'm trying to make a judgement based on his career so far whether the discussion is happening today, tomorrow or a month from now

listen your not in a position to make a judgement when it comes to a players evolution - we don't see them day by day. If you were, you could actually tell the boy to leave...what makes you qualified?

So it comes to opinions and while it's interesting, it offers no solutions.

when it comes to bottle etc - Sir Alex is known to look for 'qualities' in people/players and the reason nani is still here is because he has the qualities. Sadly we can't rush time and have the potential realized now. We must be paitent and support. Incidently, I believe it'd speed up the process

A crowd can make and break a player...it can perhaps also speed up the process

 

[mariachi-19]

and I'm not buying that he is beyond criticism. a lot of people were excited when nani signed. I was. but we have not seen the player we thought we were getting.

some people want to blame his lack of opportunities and the fact that the crowd are not supporting him.

that is doing him, SAF and the crowd a serious disservice. cos as with any player if they are good enough and performing to a high level then SAF will put them in the first 11, and the crowd will cheer him to the rafters. He isn't and he hasn't. And it looks like he wont. and all the fanboy cheering in the world will not help luis nani make the right decisions with the ball at his feet. he either has it or he doesn't. right now the latter is the strongest possibility.

The simple fact is that 3 seasons since he joined the club he is not doing it. Bearing in mind he came from another league where he had been playing and not straight from the pram as some would have you believe, then his contribution so far is massively disappointing and not improving in the slightest

He's started living up to his potential this season and he's looked dangerous.

 

[Legend16]

I'm at a loss as to why he is getting criticised again considering the little amount of time he played and how poorly the team were playing even before he came on.

Strange.

its strange if you want to restrict the debate to yesterdays game. but I'm not. I'm asking why Nani is being defended so much constantly when he has done nothing IMO to merit it. Are we all to assume that SAF is wrong and that Nani should be allowed start 5 or 6 games running? or that SAF does not see the kid as worthy of a starting place? and if the latter is true in his 3rd season then serious questions have to be asked. He came from the portugese league for 17million for feck sake.

he's not some kid whos just started kicking a ball. in other words he has had time to impress the coaching staff at united. he's had time to impress the manager. he is still not in the first team. is it ok to ask why or offer some opinions as to why not?

 

[Legend16]

listen your not in a posiyon to make a judgement. If you were, you could actually tell the boy to leave...what makes you more qualified?

So it comes to opinions and while it's interesting, it offers no solutions.

when it comes to bottle etc - Sir Alex is known to look for 'qualities' in people/players and the reason nani is still here is because he has the qualities. Sadly we can't rush time and have the potential realized now. We must be paitent and support. Incidently, I believe it'd speed up the process

A crowd can make and break a player...

and you are?

its been said ad nauseum before on here. this is a forum for fans to debate issues. why do people have a problem with that. you dont have to agree with everyone but you also have a right to say and defend what you believe.

I dont think Nani is good enough. I have seen little evidence to the contrary.

You do. I'd like to know why cos I am obviously missing something.

but to say I'm not in a position to make a judgement...............well... why am I not but you are?

 

[Rado_N]

its strange if you want to restrict the debate to yesterdays game. but I'm not. I'm asking why Nani is being defended so much constantly when he has done nothing IMO to merit it. Are we all to assume that SAF is wrong and that Nani should be allowed start 5 or 6 games running? or that SAF does not see the kid as worthy of a starting place? and if the latter is true in his 3rd season then serious questions have to be asked. He came from the portugese league for 17million for feck sake.

he's not some kid whos just started kicking a ball. in other words he has had time to impress the coaching staff at united. he's had time to impress the manager. he is still not in the first team. is it ok to ask why or offer some opinions as to why not?

Elvis is one of Nani's biggest critics. He just doesn't jump into the thread and slate him after a game he played less than 20 minutes in whilst adding nothing new to a discussion that has been going on for years.

 

[Striker10]

its strange if you want to restrict the debate to yesterdays game. but I'm not. I'm asking why Nani is being defended so much constantly when he has done nothing IMO to merit it. Are we all to assume that SAF is wrong and that Nani should be allowed start 5 or 6 games running? or that SAF does not see the kid as worthy of a starting place? and if the latter is true in his 3rd season then serious questions have to be asked. He came from the portugese league for 17million for feck sake.

he's not some kid whos just started kicking a ball. in other words he has had time to impress the coaching staff at united. he's had time to impress the manager. he is still not in the first team. is it ok to ask why or offer some opinions as to why not?

He's been defended because some recognize potential and realize that it's best for the club to decide his future not us.

While others value their own opinions above the clubs/managers.

In other words he's had time to impress and is still being given time to impress, therefore why are you jumping the gun? How can you come to that conclusion before the club

And incidently, it is a squad game - why focus on nani? A lot of the players are getting rotated. Carrick, Anderson etc. Unless you were under the impression Nanis Ronaldo?

No, nani is nani and we have a squad of wingers - all young park aside. Nani has also played in a fair few games

 

[Legend16]

He's started living up to his potential this season and he's looked dangerous.

sounds like you are convinced by what you are saying.

I could as easily say 'he's not living up to his potential this season and he has not looked dangerous'.

its probably possible to defend both positions and isn't that the issue with Nani

 

[RedSky]

Well your argument is flawed because Nani has started 11 games sub as 2 which is the 8th highest United player. So obviousally SAF is showing faith in Nani this year.

Still waiting for a response to my other post

This bollocks of Nani not producing is a blooming myth fueled by his frustrating game habits. He's actually one of our most productive players considering the little game time.

 

[BlahRules]

We needed someone like him in the game, who would at least try to test the keeper, one of the reason we lost is we didn’t have someone who was willing attack more direct, when Nani did come we had another dimension to our game. Giggs can only be effective in the wing if we can keep possession in the middle and we couldn’t yesterday.

 

[Legend16]

He's been defended because some recognize potential and realize that it's best for the club to decide his future not us.

While others value their own opinions above the clubs/managers.

In other words he's had time to impress and is still being given time to impress, therefore why are you jumping the gun before the club?hello?..

thats the same argument as saying why is he not getting a regular starting place. its as easy to say that having lost ronaldo and tevez, SAF did not want to lose anymore forwards this summer. add to that we would be lucky to get half the money we paid for him. so maybe there are reasons he was kept this summer.

But to say those reasons are so that his potential will explode unto the world stage are fanciful in the extreme. The same SAF who you credit with keeping Nani so that he can fulfill his potential is the same SAF I see who will not put him in the team. Why are you second guessing SAFs team selection? He is quite obviously showing us that Nani is not in his first 11. are you telling us thats cos in his 3rd season SAF is benching him cos he thinks he's gonna be brilliant or is it cos he's not performing. which is the point I've made all along

 

[RedSky]

thats the same argument as saying why is he not getting a regular starting place. its as easy to say that having lost ronaldo and tevez, SAF did not want to lose anymore forwards this summer. add to that we would be lucky to get half the money we paid for him. so maybe there are reasons he was kept this summer.

But to say those reasons are so that his potential will explode unto the world stage are fanciful in the extreme. The same SAF who you credit with keeping Nani so that he can fulfill his potential is the same SAF I see who will not put him in the team. Why are you second guessing SAFs team selection? He is quite obviously showing us that Nani is not in his first 11. are you telling us thats cos in his 3rd season SAF is benching him cos he thinks he's gonna be brilliant or is it cos he's not performing. which is the point I've made all along

Thats all opinion, you aren't basing your argument on any fact. As I already proved, he isn't being benched. It's called squad rotation! Check out the stats for yourself.

If you're wanting to form an argument at least try and back it up with some kind of fact you're just coming across as having some kind of vendetta against the lad.

 

[Legend16]

Not buying that either. Nani got more assists than Park/Tevez/Scholes in the PL last season after only starting 7 games (played 13, 546 mins of football). To put that into perspective, Nani has already played 376 mins of PL football this season.

Yes he can be frustrating at times, but he's also been very productive. His first year he got 14 assists, 2nd highest I believe. What is Nani meant to do exactly? If he isn't playing (546mins of PL football is feck all), then how can he improve?

In my opinion, Nani should be our penalty taker, he seems to be the most capable of scoring pens in the squad. I'd start him every game if I had my way, not push him out on the bench. But unfortunatly for Nani this year he's had an immense Giggs in his way.

oh god......the stats that prove everything.



thats my point!!! are you reading? he had a good first season but has since gone backwards and does not look like fulfilling his potential. stats from his first season are a condemnation of his current performances. we know the kid can play football. but can he do it consistently at united? the last 2 years would suggest no.

 

[Striker10]

thats the same argument as saying why is he not getting a regular starting place. its as easy to say that having lost ronaldo and tevez, SAF did not want to lose anymore forwards this summer. add to that we would be lucky to get half the money we paid for him. so maybe there are reasons he was kept this summer.

But to say those reasons are so that his potential will explode unto the world stage are fanciful in the extreme. The same SAF who you credit with keeping Nani so that he can fulfill his potential is the same SAF I see who will not put him in the team. Why are you second guessing SAFs team selection? He is quite obviously showing us that Nani is not in his first 11. are you telling us thats cos in his 3rd season SAF is benching him cos he thinks he's gonna be brilliant or is it cos he's not performing. which is the point I've made all along

How do you know what sir alex wants? We've ljajic coming in jan, welbeck, obertan and tosic in the wings...

The potential is very much in the club.

who said he'd explode? I talk about potential. you talk of failure or superstardom...

Sir Alex plays rotation. You're reaching my friend.

Your best 11 isn't always the best 11 to face every opponant your going to face, during a season. With park out, you have to protect players AND again just because someones on the bench or even plays - it don't mean they're 100% fit...

 

[anything about now]

Most of the poor performances from Nani are usually when the entire team are playing bad, as a whole. I don't remember many instances where everone was on fire, the team was clicking, and Nani looked out of place like a div2 player. Simply put, he is the easiest to single out for criticism (it used to be Fletcher, O'Shea, etc). He was our best and most inspirational player against CSKA, despite some poor decisions, he tried to make things happen. Selling him now at a major loss would be idiotic as he has just been showing signs of improvement. Never mind the fact that he's been here two years, how many times has he had a proper run of games during those two years?

 

[Legend16]

Thats all opinion, you aren't basing your argument on any fact. As I already proved, he isn't being benched. It's called squad rotation! Check out the stats for yourself.

If you're wanting to form an argument at least try and back it up with some kind of fact you're just coming across as having some kind of vendetta against the lad.

right so dismiss my opinion as a vendetta but yours is perfectly sound cos you are being supportive.

I am basing my argument on watching the kid play. Over 3 seasons now. I was a fan when he arrived. He has gone backwards in the past 2 seasons. the fact is that SAF is currently showing more faith in the winger he bought this summer who is also a young man than the winger he has had for 3 seasons.

and do me a favour. at least show my opinion the same respect I am showing yours and dont dismiss it with the notion that I am biased against Nani. I'm not. I'd be happy out if the kid would do the business

 

[Xander45]

As i've said before, this season he and Evra down the left have looked our most potent attacking threat. Yes he infuriates at times, but christ he offers more than nearly all our wingers in the attacking third.

 

[RedSky]

oh god......the stats that prove everything.



thats my point!!! are you reading? he had a good first season but has since gone backwards and does not look like fulfilling his potential. stats from his first season are a condemnation of his current performances. we know the kid can play football. but can he do it consistently at united? the last 2 years would suggest no.

You aren't reading the posts very well are you

Nani got more assists than Park/Tevez/Scholes in the PL last season after only starting 7 games (played 13, 546 mins of football). To put that into perspective, Nani has already played 376 mins of PL football this season.

Well your argument is flawed because Nani has started 11 games sub as 2 which is the 8th highest United player. So obviousally SAF is showing faith in Nani this year.

So bad form last year? Wasn't played much and when he did he still managed to clock more assists than Park/Tevez/Scholes.

Benched this year? Not correct, he's United's 8th highest starting player. Coming off the bench only twice.

I'm writing off your argument mate because:

1. You aren't using any facts to back it up. All you're doing is stating your opinion which is fine, but when facts can prove that wrong then you're looking a bit silly.

2. You aren't reading my posts properly

 

[Legend16]

How do you know what sir alex wants? We've ljajic coming in jan, welbeck, obertan and tosic in the wings...

The potential is very much in the club.

who said he'd explode? I talk about potential. you talk of failure or superstardom...

Sir Alex plays rotation. You're reaching my friend.

Your best 11 isn't always the best 11 to face every opponant your going to face, during a season. With park out, you have to protect players AND again just because someones on the bench or even plays - it don't mean they're 100% fit...

what?

Sir Alex rotation includes not playing Nani more often than playing him. does that tell you anything?

 

[Striker10]

right so dismiss my opinion as a vendetta but yours is perfectly sound cos you are being supportive.

I am basing my argument on watching the kid play. Over 3 seasons now. I was a fan when he arrived. He has gone backwards in the past 2 seasons. the fact is that SAF is currently showing more faith in the winger he bought this summer who is also a young man than the winger he has had for 3 seasons.

and do me a favour. at least show my opinion the same respect I am showing yours and dont dismiss it with the notion that I am biased against Nani. I'm not. I'd be happy out if the kid would do the business

your talking about valencia? ofcourse he's going to play him...he payed a lot of money for him, he's premiership experience...he's older then nani at 24/25

It has nothing to do with faith. Valencia with 2 goals in 2 was our in form winger in terms of goals, he even hit the bar against liverpool...

 

[RedSky]

what?

Sir Alex rotation includes not playing Nani more often than playing him. does that tell you anything?

Last season: Yes
This season: No

 

[Striker10]

what?

Sir Alex rotation includes not playing Nani more often than playing him. does that tell you anything?

how many games has he played and how many games has he missed?
How many times has nani picked up an injury/illness?
How many times has he had to miss a game because of a family tragedy?
etc

people miss games, for lots of reasons. When you've a big squad, you have to rotate

So it don't tell me anything because there is a bigger picture. if you zoom in too close, you miss the point

 

[Legend16]

your talking about valencia? ofcourse he's going to play him...he payed a lot of money for him, he's premiership experience...he's older then nani at 24/25

It has nothing to do with faith. Valencia with 2 goals in 2 was our in form winger in terms of goals, he even hit the bar against liverpool...

was nani free? does he not have prem experience?

could the fact valencia started this and the previous games before he scored have something to do with SAF thinking he merited a starting place?

why did Nani not?

 

[anything about now]

was nani free? does he not have prem experience?

could the fact valencia started this and the previous games before he scored have something to do with SAF thinking he merited a starting place?

why did Nani not?

He is in better form.

 

[Godfather]

Elvis is one of Nani's biggest critics. He just doesn't jump into the thread and slate him after a game he played less than 20 minutes in whilst adding nothing new to a discussion that has been going on for years.

Very well said.

 

[RedSky]

was nani free? does he not have prem experience?

could the fact valencia started this and the previous games before he scored have something to do with SAF thinking he merited a starting place?

why did Nani not?

I thought you were basing your argument on his whole carear not two games

 

[Striker10]

was nani free? does he not have prem experience?

could the fact valencia started this and the previous games before he scored have something to do with SAF thinking he merited a starting place?

why did Nani not?

what does the fee have to do with anything? It is irrelevent. When carrick wasn't in the team early on, were you saying? 'Shit! We waisted all those millions?'..

mate your ignoring what I said. your jumping to conclusions. Unless you have talked to sir alex personally, you don't know why nani didn't play at liverpool....

Now I won't make assumptions - but with internationals, trips to moscow why not give him a rest?

But your jumping to conclusions based on the back of the opinion you've formulated...

 

[Legend16]

how many games has he played and how many games has he missed?
How many times has nani picked up an injury/illness?
How many times has he had to miss a game because of a family tragedy?
etc

people miss games, for lots of reasons. When you've a big squad, you have to rotate

So it don't tell me anything because there is a bigger picture. if you zoom in too close, you miss the point

ok I am missing the point. despite playing for sporting lisbon and arriving at united for 17mil and being around the first team squad for 3 seasons now I have been ignoring nanis obvious brilliance and contribution to the team

and despite watching the same team as you guys I am misinterpreting the facts.

maybe I am forgetting stuff. Help me out here. remind me of a few times this season or last against top opposition when he won us the game. how many times he has started important crucial champions league games or prem ties against Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea and been one of our best performers. surely there must be a list as long as your arm.

 

[Legend16]

what does the fee have to do with anything? It is irrelevent. When carrick wasn't in the team early on, were you saying? 'Shit! We waisted all those millions?'..

mate your ignoring what I said. your jumping to conclusions. Unless you have talked to sir alex personally, you don't know why nani didn't play at liverpool....

Now I won't make assumptions - but with internationals, trips to moscow why not give him a rest?

But your jumping to conclusions based on the back of the opinion you've formulated...

are you taking the piss?

you started your previous point saying valencia was being played cos he cost good money and has prem experienc. now you are asking me what nani's fee has to do with anything. seriously get your argument together

 

[Striker10]

ok I am missing the point. despite playing for sporting lisbon and arriving at united for 17mil and being around the first team squad for 3 seasons now I have been ignoring nanis obvious brilliance and contribution to the team

and despite watching the same team as you guys I am misinterpreting the facts.

maybe I am forgetting stuff. Help me out here. remind me of a few times this season or last against top opposition when he won us the game. how many times he has started important crucial champions league games or prem ties against Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea and been one of our best performers. surely there must be a list as long as your arm.

it's not about getting one over rival fans. I see what you do, you're very persistant and rightly so

However it's not that complicated. If I say potential - I could say, 'well in the future, just imagine what he can do against those teams'....

In the past he's scored against liverpool and Arsenal.

Oh and incidently it's 26th of october. The season ends in may.......

 

[Legend16]

what does the fee have to do with anything? It is irrelevent. When carrick wasn't in the team early on, were you saying? 'Shit! We waisted all those millions?'..

mate your ignoring what I said. your jumping to conclusions. Unless you have talked to sir alex personally, you don't know why nani didn't play at liverpool....

Now I won't make assumptions - but with internationals, trips to moscow why not give him a rest?

But your jumping to conclusions based on the back of the opinion you've formulated...

no dont make assumptions but then make them anyway.

so its ok for you to assume that Nani was rested but not ok for me to assume that he was left out. right got ye.

 

[Striker10]

are you taking the piss?

you started your previous point saying valencia was being played cos he cost good money and has prem experienc. now you are asking me what nani's fee has to do with anything. seriously get your argument together

the key point was valencia had experience of this league, and as the new buy why the feck wouldn't you play him?...

We've tosic - but he needs to strengthen up. Valencia is a big guy, why risk problems not playing him?

 

[Raven Blade]

Dont know why some people come in here to slag him off after such a short cameo in an awful team performance. Y'all are seriously on his case.

For what its worth, I expected to see him come on sooner. Our attack looked toothless and the left wing had no penetration. At the very least it was nice to see Reina actually have to make some saves during the latter half of the game. We needed some inspiration and more directness in our play if we wanted to score. Nani is such a player that can have an impact because he has the bravery to force the play and make something happen. Unfortunately he couldnt be the difference this time but he did make a positive improvement.

 

[Striker10]

no dont make assumptions but then make them anyway.

so its ok for you to assume that Nani was rested but not ok for me to assume that he was left out. right got ye.

that's an example, that's not an assumption. Your making a complete assumpion. Why? Cause I added one of these: ? <-

I recognize your points but the facts don't back you up.

And incidently, who's right and who's wrong? The fact is nani is a united player and therefore your opinion means feck all. Now, how can you beat that?

Well I know, prove Nani wasn't played for the reasons you think and then by all means brag about how right you were. In the mean time, whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt and support?..

You give up when the going get's 'tough'?..is that nani's problem or yours?..