Negativity about RVP

[Lastwolf]

It was an example of unwarranted moaning.

Don't make me start moaning about people not getting my razor sharp wit, you'll rue the day, sir.

 

[Ash_G]

Always said that whilst I don't think we particularly needed Rvp you can't complain about signing a top player or deny he will make the squad stronger.

Personally I really wanted to see kagawa in the hole with Rooney ahead, suppose we might still see that if we switch formations. Ultimately I hope though that whatever happens we move to having someone who plays attacking midfield/in the hole on a regular basis. I think it's one thing that would help solve a lot of problems from the midfield not being involved as much in the attack to not being exposed by high pressing teams. Rooney can do that role but personally I think in the last 2 seasons he hasn't done it often enough nor consistently enough. The latter may be tactical and if so I hope we change, the second may have just been a blip. He looked sharp in his last game so maybe he'll click back there, as I said I think someone doing that role effectively, will really help give the team and extra dimension.

Seen some people suggesting kagawa will play deeper, said before he can do that role, personally I think we'll be wasting him somewhat but if Rooney is playing deeper then he'll allow him to get involved from deeper which would be good. Still wil be a shame for the likes of clev, ando and probably Powell who may lose games as a result. Think welbeck will be ok as he can play wide, Hernandez will likely be the real loser in the attack.

Still ultimately the squad is undeniably stronger and the statement sent out b this signing is good. Will be interesting to see what fergie has in mind because there are now a lot of players who need game time to progress and others who are well established that will be expect a certain amount of games. But am sure he has a plan.

 

[gooDevil]

nobody said that, but you seem to want to run with that...so sure. You need to endlessly and senselessly moan about how shit the team is. It's got to be 24 / 7...

or you're not a football fan.

I was teasing a bit, since you were arguing a different point than the one others were making so I figured turnabout was fair play.

No one said that some moaning is bad, people are concerned about the quantity and quality of moaning, as am I. Reasonable concern is always welcome, imo.

When we make one of our most exciting signings in years and people would rather complain about having too many good attackers it does make you wonder what it would take to please them, and if they aren't just grumpy bastards.

Since people are moaning about moaning you should be happy either way!

 

[Walrus]

It's fairly simples.

RVP is a quality player when fit, one of the top 5 strikers in the world. I don't think any of that is in question. However;

1) He is 29, not in line with our general transfer policy.
2) £24m is more than what most people expected us to pay for him.
3) He has had a lot of fitness issues. Last season was the first time he stayed relatively injury free in a long time.
4) RVP and Rooney are pretty much guarantees starters, where does that leave Hernandez, Welbeck and Kagawa, not to mention our wingers?
5) We have still not addressed the CM issue and its looking like we arent going to this summer.
6) Berbatov is still on the books with the end of the transfer window approaching.



Sorry to be "that guy" and if we signed Modric I would be the first to unzip, but the above are all valid points. I'm sure RVP and Rooney will be a great partnership, the problem is that they will have an empty hole behind them because we have no fecking midfielders, and it means less games for Welbeck and Hernandez.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The feck is this "transfer policy" people keep referring to?

 

[Adzzz]

Van...fecking...Persie.

 

[Liam147]

The feck is this "transfer policy" people keep referring to?

The transfer policy that dictates that we don't sign players over 26. Van Persie, and less recently, Berbatov, are exceptions to that. It's a fairly recent thing.

 

[moses]

Is one of you cnuts David Conn? Talk about every silver lining having a cloud. That twat has been writing the same article about us for 5 years now.

 

[thegregster]

He was on both Todayfm and Rte radio today plugging his book.

 

[moses]

The twat never mentions City, who he supports, and really with FFP they should be one of his 'investigative' targets.

 

[Gazza]

Do you think it was one or the other? RVP or a midfielder? Or was it us being opportunistic and signing a brilliant player regardless of our other positional concerns?

This is the crux of the matter and I think it's definitely the latter scenario.

 

[De Selby]

Regarding Conn: he obviously knows he has a very big, and potentially very disgruntled United-following audience, so he lets rip into the Glazers every month or so and The Guardian gets the hits.

He wrote a piece about 2 months ago and I could've sworn it was cogged from one of his earlier articles, just with different dates and slightly different figures.

 

[moses]

Regarding Conn: he obviously knows he has a very big, and potentially very disgruntled United-following audience, so he lets rip into the Glazers every month or so and The Guardian gets the hits.

He wrote a piece about 2 months ago and I could've sworn it was cogged from one of his earlier articles, just with different dates and slightly different figures.

Spot on, it's the same article over and over.

 

[Stretch]

It's fairly simples.

RVP is a quality player when fit, one of the top 5 strikers in the world. I don't think any of that is in question. However;

1) He is 29, not in line with our general transfer policy.
2) £24m is more than what most people expected us to pay for him.
3) He has had a lot of fitness issues. Last season was the first time he stayed relatively injury free in a long time.
4) RVP and Rooney are pretty much guarantees starters, where does that leave Hernandez, Welbeck and Kagawa, not to mention our wingers?
5) We have still not addressed the CM issue and its looking like we arent going to this summer.
6) Berbatov is still on the books with the end of the transfer window approaching.



Sorry to be "that guy" and if we signed Modric I would be the first to unzip, but the above are all valid points. I'm sure RVP and Rooney will be a great partnership, the problem is that they will have an empty hole behind them because we have no fecking midfielders, and it means less games for Welbeck and Hernandez.

1. SAF decides our 'transfer policy', nobody else. If he feels a 40 year old is worth a punt then that's his decision. In other words, SAF is our transfer policy.

2. Value. We paid what SAF thought was the 'value' of the player. That is what he means by 'value' in the market. He's explained it yet so many don't understand the 'value' concept. And 24m for the EPL player of the previous season's not bad going I'd say, especially considering the selling club is an English 'rival'

3. Sure, but you could sign Modric tomorrow for 40m and then he breaks his leg in training before even playing a match...point being, there's risk involved in any transfer. Yes he's injury prone, but when fit he's brilliant and his fitness has improved drastically. Plus we've other strikers who can rotate if he was out

4. Sure they would be first choice but rotation's not been abnormal in the Utd squad over the past few seasons. There will be healthy competition for spots and I think Danny will be just fine. If anything, Hernandez will suffer most but SAF will manage that, he's the best in the business for a reason.

5. Ever considered that SAF actually doesn't think we've a CM issue at all? No seriously, consider it for a second.

6. From SAF's comments on RvP it seems Berbatov will off. He was speaking of rotating between RvP, Rooney, Kagawa, Chicha and Welbeck. No mention of Berbatov so I suspect he's off.

Sorry to be 'that guy' but if we signed Modric he'd block the progress of Clevs and Ando etc etc etc.

Just be happy man and trust SAF to figure out the CM 'issue'

 

[ghaliboy]

I see a lot of table thumping. Hunched figures pointing to tactical datasheets shouting their views on how the team should line up. Demands of this and that.
Lets just sit back and be happy. RvP might not have been what WE (as the fans) wanted and goals may flow and mask the problems we are seeing in midfield and defence. Have some faith in Sir Alex. The guy knows the club and the players infinitely better than any of us.

I've seen the fans do some ridiculous 180's regarding transfers and some people say some absolutely ludicrous things up to and including writing off the transfer completely as a failure already.

I am going to bow out. Rest my cock and be happy we've signed someone who is a massive goal threat up front. The other lads will have to just make do and raise their own bar to push him out and show the world they are ready.

 

[Snow]

This seems like a good time to re-post some stats I compiled earlier this summer.

Spoiler

All-time Goals Scored Per 38 games [Goals]
97 - 1999-2000
93 - 1956-7 [103]
93 - 1958-9 [103]
92 - 1959-60 [102]
89 - 2011-12
87 - 2001-2
86 - 1951-2 [95]
86 - 1946-7 [95]
86 - 2009-10
86 - 1951-2
83 - 2006-7

Goals Scored last 6 season:
11-12: 89
10-11: 78
09-10: 86
08-09: 68
07-08: 80
06-07: 83

All-Time Goal Difference per 38 games [GD]
58 - 2007-8
58 - 2009-10
56 - 2011-12
56 - 2006-7
52 - 1999-2000
49 - 1994-5
48 - 2000-1
47 - 1997-8
45 - 1964-5 [50]
44 - 2008-9
44 - 1956-7 [49]
43 - 1998-9

Goal Difference last 6 season:
11-12: 56
10-11: 41
09-10: 58
08-9: 44
07-8: 58
06-7: 56

89 points last season is tied for 3rd best in our history with 2006-7, behind 1999-2000 [91 pts] and 2008-9 [90]. We had 92 in 42 games in 93-94 but that's only 2.19 points per game, which would be 83 points over 38 games.

To be fair he said goals against 'very average teams'.

We scored 10 against Arsenal.
6 against Tottenham.
6 against Chelsea.
5 against Everton.
3 against Liverpool.
1 against City.

31 goals against the usually top 6 strongest opponents. It's about the same average as against a lot of the other teams.

Still a good haul at the end of it all but we did struggle to create chances in many games. Some of these games that we won were deadly finishers.

You're mostly right. I'm only nitpicking really. It's that run of 7-8 games before Christmas where we were poor that stands out in people's memory. That and the fact that we barely managed to win both Sunderland and Norwich games and Wigan beat us.

 

[ecantona7]

I said it in his main thread already but whatever i'll say it again. Top 5 strikers in the world, an amazing finisher, can take freekicks, can take corners. It's a superb signing. If and it's a big our CM options can stay fit or at least 3 of scholes, carrick, cleverly, and anderson can stay fit at all times then we'll be good to go and a genuine contender for all trophies.

Oh, forgot to mention PL player of the year and scored the most goals in the league while playing on a worse team. The talent on united is gonna open up a lot of space for him on defenders. Him and rooney up top is gonna be deadly.

 

[Brwned]

Just thought it would be interesting to revisit the issues initially brought up about the Van Persie signing...

Didn't quite think it would be possible after a player like RVP being signed.

So far we have:

1) The non-development of Hernandez now
2) Becoming like City by buying the league
3) RVP is too old / possibly crocked / Expensive
4) Not a CM

You pessimistic wankers, this is a great signing, if you look hard enough there might be something to get excited about, somewhere.

You missed out what it means for the situation with Welbeck's contract.

Safe to assume with Hernandez's 6 goals and 600+ minutes playing time that there's no worries about him. Likewise with Welbeck's 700+ minutes and a new contract signed. Clearly he's not too expensive and we can expect this level for at least the next couple of years - even though Berbatov never lived up to expectations he still showed (and is showing) that he can produce into his 30s, with him winning top scorer with us at age 30, and Sheringham of course showed he could still be a key player at 33. Van Persie's capable of having 3-4 top seasons here and if he does keep up this level until he's 32 he has a fair chance of scoring more goals for us in 4 seasons than he did in 8 seasons at Arsenal. That only really leaves the "we needed a centre mid, not a striker" issue...

Nope, I'm not pessimistic and I'm not excited.I would be if we had also signed a CM and a LB, but as it is nope.

Yep pretty much my thoughts. Still hoping for that miraculous midfield signing!

Yeah failing to get excited about this signing.

I'd be more excited if we had signed either a CM and a LB

I'm excited but it just seems pointless, it's like Barca potentially buying Song now. What could they possibly need him for? Obviously RvP will improve us, but he's improving the area we are the most well stocked in.

Do people still feel the same way about him being unneccessary, or do we all agree that Van Persie was just too good to say no to regardless of the other positions that need improving?

The money could have been better spent on someone like lewandowski - someone we could develop.

Fergie last couple of signings -

Good
De Gea, Jones, Hernadez, Henriquez, Powell, Smalling, Kagawa

Bad
Berbatov, Hargreaves, Anderson, Young, Vps

I have added vps as I think hes a bad signing both for the money and that we didn't need a striker.

The bad buys all bar Anderson have been experienced players all over 26.

Van Persie still seen in that poor signing category?

 

[Cina]

I remember that Commadus post

Though I was skeptical of the transfer at the time too, not because I doubted his quality or anything, I just felt he was a luxury rather than a necessity considering weaknesses in other positions. But he's proving that totally wrong, feck knows where we'd be without him.

 

[SER19]

some posts in the last few weeks are amazingly bad, top of the league and 4 wins out of 4 in champions league and apparantley we're "shit"

 

[Ash_G]

Tbf although he's been brilliant so far we've been slightly fortunate in some ways that with Nani being out of favor and Kagawa/Rooney/Young injured at times we've not had to try and fit in everybody over a sustained period. Kagawa though has probably suffered a little before his injuries having to play a wide/more disciplined role. Still would have to say RVP has been a great signing.

 

[Cold_Boy]

Hargreaves was not a bad signing in term of ability and quality.

Berbatov was an ok signing.

Young and Anderson are still no verdicts.

RVP

 

[Adebesi]

My main concern with this was nothing to do with RVP but the absence of a CM signing. Things seem to be going as well as can be hoped for on that score but it doesnt take long for an injury or two to cause everything to unravel. Dont want to sound unduly pessimistic but this is my biggest concern.

As for RVP, I originally thought the signing was a bit of a luxury - a great player but one we didnt need as much as we need strengthening in other positions. I guess I have changed my stance on it a bit, he doesnt feel like a "luxury" now. I guess the piece of the jigsaw I didnt really grasp before was Rooney's reinvention as a quasi midfielder.

Oh and my other concern about RVP was also about injuries. So the jury remains out on that one as well. But there is no doubt he is a phenomenal player - and there never was.

 

[Pink Moon]

My main concern with this was nothing to do with RVP but the absence of a CM signing. Things seem to be going as well as can be hoped for on that score but it doesnt take long for an injury or two to cause everything to unravel. Dont want to sound unduly pessimistic but this is my biggest concern.

As for RVP, I originally thought the signing was a bit of a luxury - a great player but one we didnt need as much as we need strengthening in other positions. I guess I have changed my stance on it a bit, he doesnt feel like a "luxury" now. I guess the piece of the jigsaw I didnt really grasp before was Rooney's reinvention as a quasi midfielder.

Oh and my other concern about RVP was also about injuries. So the jury remains out on that one as well. But there is no doubt he is a phenomenal player - and there never was.

I'm not sure but hasn't he been fit for well over a year now? Since the start of last season at Arsenal? It seemed he used to be injured a few times a season but since he's become a goalscoring machine he also seems to have remained fit. Must be taking the same drugs as Messi now

 

[Adebesi]

He has been fit for a while now, it is true. It is certainly grounds for hope. But I dont want to assume that means he has put all his problems behind him. Anyway, that was my concern, I dont want to dwell on it.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

He's been fit for about 18 months now. That coincides, I believe, with the moment he swapped from Arsenal's medical team to the Dutch NT's physio (I think I read this somewhere).

 

[Nobby style]

The footballing geniuses sharpening their knives after Valencia had a not so great half against L'Arse in a game where he left Santos as a rape victim and set up Van Persie's goal.

He's looking completely out of ideas in attack at the moment. He always slows the game down to almost a complete halt nowadays, and usually he either doesn't do anything or does something utterly pointless and wasteful. It's strange to see. He puts in the effort defensively, but honestly he shouldn't be an automatic starter anymore. He needs a wake-up call.

Better at what? he doesn't score as much, doesn't create as many chances, he is extremely one footed. People seem to think Valencia is consistent always because he puts in a shift, the amount of times he wastes good chances yet he gets so much more leeway than other players.

I just wish he could learn a bit of a trick or something to help him get passed his man.

Using that drop of the right shoulder and belt down the line is all well and good, but it hardly works all the time. Sometimes when he gets to the byline and just stands there waiting for something to happen is a bit odd, i would love if he could learn a step over or something, can we not hybrid nani and valencia?

Played like a pile of shit today

Looking just by direct goal danger, he is probably worst winger in the league.

If he played for any other team we'd be calling him a hit and run merchant. He's way too one dimensional to play in our current set up.

Today was another average performance mind. Agree with Amar that he gets off easily.

 

[surf]

12 wins in the last 13 games in league and champions league. Not bad.

 

[Tomuś]

The footballing geniuses sharpening their knives after Valencia had a not so great half against L'Arse in a game where he left Santos as a rape victim and set up Van Persie's goal.

It's a good thing you didn't name those idiots you quoted

 

[Amar__]

The footballing geniuses sharpening their knives after Valencia had a not so great half against L'Arse in a game where he left Santos as a rape victim and set up Van Persie's goal.

That's not negativity, he wasn't playing his best football this season, and that's a fact. And he didn't rape Santos at all, he get past him couple of times and that's it, most of the time when Santos was caught out of position.
He was great against Braga though, I hope he will continue to play like that.

And my comment still stays the same, he is awfull in front of goal, did you see some of his misses this season? He should be more dangerous in front of goal.

Even at this form, he is one of the best wingers in the world, but he can play way better than this.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

The footballing geniuses sharpening their knives after Valencia had a not so great half against L'Arse in a game where he left Santos as a rape victim and set up Van Persie's goal.

Is that from the matchday forum?

Worth a LOL for worst winger in the league comment, I mean FFS.

 

[peterstorey]

He and Young were both pretty crap against Arsenal.

 

[jem]

Just thought it would be interesting to revisit the issues initially brought up about the Van Persie signing...





Safe to assume with Hernandez's 6 goals and 600+ minutes playing time that there's no worries about him. Likewise with Welbeck's 700+ minutes and a new contract signed. Clearly he's not too expensive and we can expect this level for at least the next couple of years - even though Berbatov never lived up to expectations he still showed (and is showing) that he can produce into his 30s, with him winning top scorer with us at age 30, and Sheringham of course showed he could still be a key player at 33. Van Persie's capable of having 3-4 top seasons here and if he does keep up this level until he's 32 he has a fair chance of scoring more goals for us in 4 seasons than he did in 8 seasons at Arsenal. That only really leaves the "we needed a centre mid, not a striker" issue...











Do people still feel the same way about him being unneccessary, or do we all agree that Van Persie was just too good to say no to regardless of the other positions that need improving?





Van Persie still seen in that poor signing category?

How could Commadus say that a guy who has yet to play for us (Henriquez) was a good signing (never mind what he said about RVP)? Just a ridiculous comment.

 

[Gee Male]

Looking just by direct goal danger, he is probably worst winger in the league.

Direct goal danger

 

[Amar__]

Direct goal danger

feck it, I couldn't find better words, but my point still stays the same, his finishing is awfull, and he rarely gets into good goalscoring opportunities.