Onana has not worked out. We need a new keeper.

[The Hilton]

I said the Crystal Palace match as it was a perfect and recent example of saves he could or should have made. There’s been countless goals all season where fans have thought he could or should have done better with weak goals. Yet somehow you’ve got this stat saying he saved basically 6 more than he should have, after I’ve just watched a video of his best saves of the season and they were 99% bread and butter saves for any keeper, there was nowhere near 6 saves that were expected to be goals but Onana somehow pulled off a worldy

You keep referring to it as "my" stat, which you know is dishonest. It's a statistic that came from the Premier League. You can go on as many hyperbole filled rants as you like, but up until the 10th April he was the second best goalkeeper in the league for preventing expected goals, having conceded 5.7 fewer goals than the expected goals from the shots on target he'd faced. The Palace game doesn't factor into that, and will no doubt reduce that number, but it's almost certainly still positive, which is an improvement compared to DDG last season who was in the red.

This is exactly why it's a great stat, because it allows us to be objective in the face of irrational fans who are frothing at the mouth due to recency bias after a bad performance. It's a much better gauge than you watching a compilation video that you weren't impressed with.

 

[Zlatan 7]

You keep referring to it as "my" stat, which you know is dishonest. It's a statistic that came from the Premier League. You can go on as many hyperbole filled rants as you like, but up until the 10th April he was the second best goalkeeper in the league for preventing expected goals, having conceded 5.7 fewer goals than the expected goals from the shots on target he'd faced. The Palace game doesn't factor into that, and will no doubt reduce that number, but it's almost certainly still positive, which is an improvement compared to DDG last season who was in the red.

This is exactly why it's a great stat, because it allows us to be objective in the face of irrational fans who are frothing at the mouth due to recency bias after a bad performance. It's a much better gauge than you watching a compilation video that you weren't impressed with.

No, I said you’ve got this stat. I didn’t say it was yours.
i havent hyperboled. I haven’t ranted.
I’d love to know what these 5.7 saves are that were expected goals because I’m sure they were not in that video of his best saves apart from the penalty save and probably the Brighton save, and that’s still ignoring all the saves he should have made.

Some fans are Stat mad these days and may aswell watch football from ceefax or a spreadsheet. I get it, you like to watch football through stats, Inlike to watch the actual game and what I see from Onana doesn’t impress me at all. Opinions.

 

[Sky1981]

You keep referring to it as "my" stat, which you know is dishonest. It's a statistic that came from the Premier League. You can go on as many hyperbole filled rants as you like, but up until the 10th April he was the second best goalkeeper in the league for preventing expected goals, having conceded 5.7 fewer goals than the expected goals from the shots on target he'd faced. The Palace game doesn't factor into that, and will no doubt reduce that number, but it's almost certainly still positive, which is an improvement compared to DDG last season who was in the red.

This is exactly why it's a great stat, because it allows us to be objective in the face of irrational fans who are frothing at the mouth due to recency bias after a bad performance. It's a much better gauge than you watching a compilation video that you weren't impressed with.

Yes, he's so bad and shaky every teams are peppering him with pot shots

But hey, "second best goalkeeper"

 

[arnie_ni]

He's Matt Turner?

Alright so we’ve hit the stage of nonsense in the thread. Good to know.

 

[DJ_21]

Apparently Bayindir has already agreed a move in the summer because he’s not happy with his lack of playing time and Heaton contract is due to expire. We will be signing at least 1 keeper so why not make Onana our no.2 or cup keeper?

Probably because we don’t have the money to sign a first team keeper. We have other priorities. A ST will probably take most of our budget.

 

[David De Gea]

No, I said you’ve got this stat. I didn’t say it was yours.
i havent hyperboled. I haven’t ranted.
I’d love to know what these 5.7 saves are that were expected goals because I’m sure they were not in that video of his best saves apart from the penalty save and probably the Brighton save, and that’s still ignoring all the saves he should have made.

Some fans are Stat mad these days and may aswell watch football from ceefax or a spreadsheet. I get it, you like to watch football through stats, Inlike to watch the actual game and what I see from Onana doesn’t impress me at all. Opinions.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Onana is the reason I'm an Xg atheist. People are so obsessed with the statistification of football and this one is particularly bad for me.

You don't need any stats to tell you what your eyes can see with Onana. The desperation of some fans to say otherwise is desperate.

 

[David De Gea]

Found this, it's 4 mins long, take into account they show most of the saves twice, quite a few of them are not what I would call "great" more like bread and butter, and a fair few hit him, rather than him actually saving them,

This is what tells me more than any xg stat people want to bring up, this confirms its not my imagination that, other than a handful of saves, most of his saves you would expect any Premier league keeper to make. Even his highlights show some of his weaknesses and how bad he is at controlling a ball when he parries it. I've never seen the ball consistently come off a keeper at such mad angles. Straight up in the, straight in to the ground, straight back to the danger zone. It's just madness.

No amout of standing with the ball at feet while pointing or making spectacular diving saves for shots in the middle of the goal will convince me otherwise. Just as it seems no amount of weak efforts along the ground slipping under him will convince his fans otherwise.

Unfortunately I think I'll just have to wait this one out and at least get some entertainment from the bag of frogs coming up with elaborate ways to fail to keep the ball out of the net. Even the mental gymnastics of some on here to explain why every simple shot he let's in brings some form of entertainment.

 

[Matt Varnish]

No, I said you’ve got this stat. I didn’t say it was yours.
i havent hyperboled. I haven’t ranted.
I’d love to know what these 5.7 saves are that were expected goals because I’m sure they were not in that video of his best saves apart from the penalty save and probably the Brighton save, and that’s still ignoring all the saves he should have made.

Some fans are Stat mad these days and may aswell watch football from ceefax or a spreadsheet. I get it, you like to watch football through stats, Inlike to watch the actual game and what I see from Onana doesn’t impress me at all. Opinions.

Why can't we have a thumbs up button the size of the North Stand for posts like this!

 

[Kostov]

Why would I have any difficulty quoting objective statistics with a straight face?

Onana has made some terrible errors, as DDG did last season, but in terms of stopping shots, he's been better at it this season than DDG was last season. The numbers don't lie, and if you can't accept them then maybe you should take a step back and look into why you can't be rational about this subject.

That bolded part right there speaks volumes about how ridiculous your line of argument is. No my friend, DDG did not make even close to as many mistakes as Onana has done constantly this season, and you struggle to understand that, trying to mask it off with stats. It's like you don't even watch the actual football just quote the numbers.

 

[Plant0x84]

Probably because we don’t have the money to sign a first team keeper. We have other priorities. A ST will probably take most of our budget.

I have de ja vu

 

[ROFLUTION]

I'm not denying he faces tons and tons of shots. We're a mess.

I'm saying his footwork is shite and he's often rooted to the spot. Also that he's clearly nowhere near good enough.

As I see it, his footwork was a problem in the beginning of the season, but hasn't been the last half year. Except for his obvious and terrible blunders, he's actually been quite alright from new years and on. (But he'll of course make many mistakes again if he does like he's always done at every club).

Imo we're stuck with him. Unless we can get maybe 30m and have a clear solution for someone else who's better. That'd still be an outlay of maybe 50-70m in total after taking a loss on Onana, and I'm just not sure we have that kind of money or whether it's worth it.

Edit: Imagine spending 50-70m on a good defender so he has less stuff to do and better options to pass to. If that's the logic then someone like Brantwaithe makes sense to me.

 

[Crimson King]

Too many other areas need focus first so spending a small fortune on a new GK would be silly.

I'm expecting him to look a lot more solid next season if we can get a settled defence in front of him and a midfield that can actually control the tempo of a match.

 

[red woppit]

I wouldn't be averse to promoting Vitek, although vastly inexperienced, but that could be a long shot as he's only 20, more likely to have a loan to a higher placed club than Accrington.
I really liked the look of Kovar before he was sold, probably under Ten Hags direction to make room for Onana. I wonder if we have a buy back option, other posters may be able to answer that.

 

[JPRouve]

Come off it. There’s valid criticism but on the ball he’s world class. Yes he’s made mistakes with it but name me a ball playing keeper who hasn’t?

I don't see it and it has nothing to do with mistakes, I don't even remember mistakes related to his ball skills. I simply don't see anything special with his ball skills.

 

[Rojofiam]

He's Matt Turner?

Completion percentage doesn't mean much.

Vicario has been one of the best keepers in the world this season (as an all-rounder: great shot-stopping, but he's very good with the ball too), and he's lower than Onana. Alisson has been playing for a side that controls their games much better than 2023/24 United do, and yet he's barely ahead in this metric.

Petrovic and Pope are two examples of traditional goalkeepers who aren't really good with their feet, similarly to De Gea, and they're both ahead of Onana.

Sorry, but this really isn't proving that Onana can't pass. Judge him after a season where we are at least good enough for top 4 collectively as a team, and we also actually control most of our games, unlike last season.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Completion percentage doesn't mean much.

Vicario has been one of the best keepers in the world this season (as an all-rounder: great shot-stopping, but he's very good with the ball too), and he's lower than Onana. Alisson has been playing for a side that controls their games much better than 2023/24 United do, and yet he's barely ahead in this metric.

Petrovic and Pope are two examples of traditional goalkeepers who aren't really good with their feet, similarly to De Gea, and they're both ahead of Onana.

Sorry, but this really isn't proving that Onana can't pass. Judge him after a season where we are at least good enough for top 4 collectively as a team, and we also actually control most of our games, unlike last season.

We can't wait that long.
We'd be in League 2

 

[Rojofiam]

We can't wait that long.
We'd be in League 2

I clearly cannot change your mind, and that goes vice versa as well. Let's just come back to these posts after Onana has played a full season in a functional tactical setup for a team that doesn't concede 20-30 shots every game.

 

[David De Gea]

I clearly cannot change your mind, and that goes vice versa as well. Let's just come back to these posts after Onana has played a full season in a functional tactical setup for a team that doesn't concede 20-30 shots every game.

Likewise I'll becoming back to this thread after each and every game when Onana shows himself up again.

Is there not even a little pang of doubt creeps in your mind when you see tame efforts roll in passed him? Or see him time and time again stand stock still as the ball flies in the net? Never enters your head as another soft goal goes on 'keeper!?'

 

[RoyH1]

I clearly cannot change your mind, and that goes vice versa as well. Let's just come back to these posts after Onana has played a full season in a functional tactical setup for a team that doesn't concede 20-30 shots every game.

He struggles with basic positioning and fundamentals. It’s how he stands, uses his arms and hands. He has to fix those. If he doesn’t, then I’m afraid he could have prime Rio, Nesta and Maldini in front of him and he’d still be a liability for us..

 

[Big Andy]

Onana is a strange one for sure.

For the amount of shots he's faced, he's actually done very well, and yet he doesn't fill me with confidence either. He is capable of making really good saves, but by and large struggles if they are either low down in the corners or high into the corners. Even those shots that are straight at him aren't dealt with very well, and he's liable to feck up with his feet at times as well.

And yet he's put under tremendous pressure with the complete lack of protection afforded to him by our midfield being wide open and defence being wide open.

I agree he could do much better, but I think I would like to see him play behind a solid midfield and defence before I throw him to the wolves. The United keeper position is one of the hardest in football, as every mistake is amplified through the United lens, by both fans and opposition fans, and the media in general. You could make 10 great saves, and then feck up, cost a goal and that's all everyone will go on about. So I do feel some sympathy for him as well.

 

[Dermott Walsh]

Arguably it couldn't of gone much worse than it has with Onana.
The CL exit was solely his fault, which is a crazy thing ot say but it's true. He then had a small period in the middle of the season where he played fairly well. The past 5/6 weeks he has been in horrible form again.
For all the talk about how good he is with his feet & playing out from the back, apart from a few good long balls we really haven't seen it. Granted he hasn't had the best ball playing CBs in front of him for most of the season but what he has delivered on that front does not cover for the sheer lack of quality he has at shot stopping.
Presumably his confidence is at an all time low, pressures of being man utd GK & poor defensive structure are some reasons for his poor performances but when I look at him play he doesn't look like a top tier GK even in the slightest. If a ball goes in low he simply can't get down in time, seems v suspect with any sort of cross (punching attackers & letting wide free kicks straight in) and gets beaten at near post regularly.
Terrible recruitment yet again, cut losses and sign literally anyone else from PL. There's at least 19 other keepers better than him in the league.

 

[JPRouve]

He struggles with basic positioning and fundamentals. It’s how he stands, uses his arms and hands. He has to fix those. If he doesn’t, then I’m afraid he could have prime Rio, Nesta and Maldini in front of him and he’d still be a liability for us..

Yeah Onana is a decent shot stopper with pretty good reflexes but his footwork and positioning are subpar, he consistently fails to close near post shot angles and his footwork prevents him from covering more distance. These things are fixable and he is young enough for a goalkeeper to still improve a lot, so I don't have an issue with him in the short to mid term.

 

[Hughie77]

Feck the stats.. the guys Rubbish ..

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Onana is a strange one for sure.

For the amount of shots he's faced, he's actually done very well, and yet he doesn't fill me with confidence either. He is capable of making really good saves, but by and large struggles if they are either low down in the corners or high into the corners. Even those shots that are straight at him aren't dealt with very well, and he's liable to feck up with his feet at times as well.

And yet he's put under tremendous pressure with the complete lack of protection afforded to him by our midfield being wide open and defence being wide open.

I agree he could do much better, but I think I would like to see him play behind a solid midfield and defence before I throw him to the wolves. The United keeper position is one of the hardest in football, as every mistake is amplified through the United lens, by both fans and opposition fans, and the media in general. You could make 10 great saves, and then feck up, cost a goal and that's all everyone will go on about. So I do feel some sympathy for him as well.

I'd agree with this. It becomes an even stranger discussion when you throw De Gea in the mix. It's true that Onana leaves a lot to be desired, and he's having an underwhelming season. The way we defend as a team - from our reactions when we lose the ball high on the pitch, to the individual decisions to either close down or protect the space that lead to the ridiculous amount of shots we concede - is also a huge problem.

It is an issue because of the particularities of the position. It's very different playing for a team that allows the opponent a lot of shots, and a whole different story when you're at a (more often big) club where you have to be prepared to clear out the danger just a few times in a game. For example, Henderson looking like a world beater at Sheffield United doesn't (and didn't) translate into him being able to sit between the sticks for a title contender. It just doesn't work like that. Some keepers just look very good, despite their weaknesses, when they are busy all the time. Onana isn't probably one of them, and he has certainly never played (until now) in such a team. But, except for Alisson, i don't know who else is out there that can look good in both sets of circumstances.

The thing with De Gea is that he was the former type. He always looked very good when he had a lot of work to do. And some of his most memorable performances came when the team was under a lot of pressure from the opposition. I still remember a friend of mine describing him as "the best small-club goalkeeper" in the world when i asked him where he would rank him among his colleagues. This is a description of United in the post-SAF era as much as it is an evaluation of De Gea. Now, id Onana the answer? Possibly, no, he is not. On the other hand, goalies nowadays (at the highest level) are, more often than not, much more than shot-stoppers. The reason why so many can't see it, is because United are resisting to get on with the times, and we are always in the process of thinking which hole to plug first instead of drawing a line and starting anew. It's similar to the praise Maguire has been getting lately. He passes the eye test for a traditional centre-half in our current mess, but if you have a closer look, he plays to protect himself more than his team.

 

[NLunited]

Onana is the least of our worries. He‘s been solid after settling in. As the stats and eye test show.

 

[Alex99]

Onana is the least of our worries. He‘s been solid after settling in. As the stats and eye test show.

I personally think he fails the eye test.

Even when he makes saves, he often looks incredibly awkward, and a fair number of the goals he has conceded seemed very saveable.

 

[JPRouve]

I personally think he fails the eye test.

Even when he makes saves, he often looks incredibly awkward, and a fair number of the goals he has conceded seemed very saveable.

I agree with you on the eye test but the paradox is that he also makes saves that he shouldn't be able to. At this minute he isn't reliable because you can't predict what he is able or unable to save or the areas where he will dominate but with better coaching I can see him improve drastically and be a genuine asset.

 

[Alex99]

I agree with you on the eye test but the paradox is that he also makes saves that he shouldn't be able to. At this minute he isn't reliable because you can't predict what he is able or unable to save or the areas where he will dominate but with better coaching I can see him improve drastically and be a genuine asset.

I hope coaching can sort him out. He looks more like an outfield player filling in than an actual goalkeeper at times.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

What's a stage of nonsense?

His ball playing is factually very good, there’s no point is replying to people saying otherwise. Let’s focus on the actual problem parts of his game.

 

[Judas]

I do look forward to seeing him with players who can pass, and us actually using him properly instead of him being told to lump it forward. Willing to give him another season because we've got plenty of other issues to address.

 

[Jund]

I'm not sure what the debate is about anymore?

The club overpaid massively for an average goalie. That's it, there's nothing more to it.

It's like defending the Maguire, Fellaini transfers. Great business for the seller clubs, average players for quadruple the money they're worth.

 

[mu4c_20le]

His ball playing is factually very good, there’s no point is replying to people saying otherwise. Let’s focus on the actual problem parts of his game.

To be fair I was strictly talking about this season. I don't think it was an outlandish statement to say that he isn't the only modern keeper in the PL capable of launching an accurate long ball? You could say that injuries and a poor team played a part, but his numbers have been average.

 

[RoyH1]

I'm not sure what the debate is about anymore?

The club overpaid massively for an average goalie. That's it, there's nothing more to it.

It's like defending the Maguire, Fellaini transfers. Great business for the seller clubs, average players for quadruple the money they're worth.

Be careful. You're about to be bombarded with a dozen posts with unfiltered data of all sorts that will help chastise you into believing that Onana was a bargain and we have the privilege of having the second best goalie in the league.

 

[Raoul]

I'm not sure what the debate is about anymore?

The club overpaid massively for an average goalie. That's it, there's nothing more to it.

It's like defending the Maguire, Fellaini transfers. Great business for the seller clubs, average players for quadruple the money they're worth.

Pretty much this. He's also the latest in a litany of calamatous transfer choices made by ETH, which have resulted in the club being in reverse for the past 12 months, which has happened despite the respective emergences of Garnacho and Mainoo.

 

[Melville Red]

Feck the stats.. the guys Rubbish ..

Correct, would have been better off keeping Henderson and spending the money wisely. Saying that when did Utd last spend money wisely?

 

[Frosty]

Pretty much this. He's also the latest in a litany of calamatous transfer choices made by ETH, which have resulted in the club being in reverse for the past 12 months, which has happened despite the respective emergences of Garnacho and Mainoo.

Saying that we are in danger of massively overplaying both teenagers (if we haven't already), which may really hamper their development.

 

[Hughie77]

Correct, would have been better off keeping Henderson and spending the money wisely. Saying that when did Utd last spend money wisely?

Henderson wasn't good enough either apparently? And he buggerd off before ETH came in that's what he wanted , because they pissed him off season before..

Now I'm using stats haha .. onana is slightly better than Henderson on stats but hes also been out injured as well.. ?? Never like Onana never will .. eth gets sack and take him as well back to Holland

 

[Raoul]

Saying that we are in danger of massively overplaying both teenagers (if we haven't already), which may really hamper their development.

Agreed. Also, concerning is the degradation in their morale at such an impressionable age. They should be working under a proper manager who knows what he's doing.

 

[simplyared]

How can you watch Onana stink up the place for the entire season yet pull up statistics and tell me how he has prevented 5 more goals than he should have, and that with a straight face? There’s a 15 minute blooper reel of his cock ups and he has let 80 goals past him. And you need evidence

And yes average was indeed better than some of the crap being served last year by the likes of Antony, Weghorst, Eriksen, Casemiro, Fred and others. We scored 58 goals last year in the PL.

Good post! Anyone who defends Onana or comes up with meaningless stats trying to justify he's a goalkeeper are deluded. The man's a fraud.

 

[cpresc]

I must question you on this. What is it you've seen that makes you feel confident?
Shoot!

I think he has courage, will stand up and be counted instead of shy away - this is a must have trait for a Utd player

He's a good shot stopper with fast reactions. Athletic and good on the ball.

He flaps a bit, granted and makes silly mistakes. Both I hope can be solved with great coaching and sports psychology.

Similar to Ten Hag, I want to see how he performs with a good structure around him, a consistent, high-performing defence.