Must be the biggest bunch of overrated so called creative players ever at a club.
Our attackers compared to rivals
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yep. Nobody is saying martial or rashford are good enough to be main men yet. Martial probably is ready to start consistently, but he can't be the main man yet. I saw him and rashford in the same boat as Sterling and Sane. All very promising youngsters who have been incredibly inconsistent, though City had 3 other world class players around them to be the main players and allow them to develop as youngsters. Martial and Rashford when they play are essentially the main men. The players that get on the ball the most and we look to to create something. And that in a system that doesn't get the most out of them anyway. Obviously they're going to be inconsistent as feck. They need a lot more quality around them and that'll lift their level. Mourinho brought in a static, old but talented striker last season in Ibra who by the end wasn't quite good enough anyway and severely limited how we could play. Then replaced him with a striker who has shit all round play and hasn't been scoring regularly either, as he's incredibly reliant on service from others.
Mourinhos to blame on both accounts IMO. Obviously the signings, as he's gone for the wrong choices/ignored others who were obvious and shining elsewhere, and then he just doesn't know how to get the best out of them.
Not sure I see it tbh, Lukaku and Rashford could be score what Aguero/Jesus do, Martial play as well as Sane, and Mikhi offer as much as Sterling does, I'll give you De Bruyne, but as much as he is better than what we have in that position, Pogba is for us in midfield.
Is the issue all the players, or perhaps how they're been coached?
Rashford wouldn’t start for City. People keep giving the example of Sterling, but he was always better on the ball than Rashford. Rashford could possibly more likely go the Iheanacho route.
Sterling offers much more than Mkhitaryan. He can dribble and run off the ball. Mkhitaryan wants everything to feet he doesn’t wanna run of the ball and never has.
Our lads are so inept currently. Don’t have a clue what to do, too slow and very stiff. Lad with bundles of pace stands for nothing when they run into dead ends.
Set pieces are diabolical as well. We have no attacking flair at all. We can’t let attackers decide what to do, they still need direction. Need to start from scratch and school then hard on the training pitch.
Very disappointing. Don’t mind us having a mare in front of goal, now concrete chances have totally dried up.
Set pieces are diabolical as well. We have no attacking flair at all. We can’t let attackers decide what to do, they still need direction. Need to start from scratch and school then hard on the training pitch.
Very disappointing. Don’t mind us having a mare in front of goal, now concrete chances have totally dried up.
I pointed out the fee as Pogba and lukaku should be that kind of players for us, if they are not it's down to mourinho targetting the wrong player.
Pushing Pogba further up the pitch would do wonders. He is by far the most skillful player and the best passer in the squad. Whether as a number 10 or in 3-man midfield, he needs to be more involved in the attacking play.
There was one point in the second half where he started to make a late run in the box, but he sees Matic make the same run at the same moment and he just stops. While this was the correct decision (he now has to protect the back 4) it seemed a lot of times Matic was the furthest of the two or Pogba was simply too deep to make an impact.
There was one point in the second half where he started to make a late run in the box, but he sees Matic make the same run at the same moment and he just stops. While this was the correct decision (he now has to protect the back 4) it seemed a lot of times Matic was the furthest of the two or Pogba was simply too deep to make an impact.
Both for me.
Would Jose be 15pts clear at the top with this City squad? Not for me.
Would Pep have this squad top of the league? No.
We need a couple of players who are in their prime with consistency. Rashford, Martial and Lingard has potential but inconsistent as you can expect from younger players. We don't have 2 players in each position as city has so are in trouble if a few of them are off form. If we sort the spine out the rest will come but maybe too late for this season
Kids need coaching, Jose wants finished articles, he'll waste thier talent
Agree, Pep is a brilliant coach not a magician.
Different level.
Balls. They were all thought good enough to be signed for United and then haven’t pushed on.The only players that would get into City’s starting 11 are De Gea and Pogba.
You think the likes of City and Chelsea would have Jones, Smalling, Young and Shaw starting every week for them?Give me a break. Herrera, Mkhitaryan and Martial wouldn’t sniff the pitch for those sides. And like it or not, those two are the competition. They have better players, meanwhile we’re settling for average dross. It’s no surprise they’re so far ahead of us.
We need to wake the feck up.
A lot of it is because the manager we’ve got mostly deals with finished articles and hasn’t a clue how to get consistency and performances from the likes of Smalling or Jones.
Very unfair to write off half your squad. They’re all unlucky to play for United during an era of short termism and poor management.
Strange comment to make because they been decent when played. The issue is that both can’t stay fit when the other is fit.
He hasn't a clue how to solve the problems with the attack, just chucking players into positions hoping someone will come good. What was the idea with Miki today? Held the width but what's the point when he can't cross. Martial comes on and is endlessly cutting inside. The few dangerous moments were crosses from our fullbacks but we don't get enough bodies in the box to convert those chances
I think out attack is clearly missing something, in particular a senior player who can take on a player and will more often than not make the right decision. Only Martial in our attack can really take someone on and he's still learning.
However I really don't think the players are as bad as the performances would suggest and that we're not really getting the most out of them. This doesn't take away from the individual poor performances but I just don't really see what our attacking style is compared to a City/Arsenal. It doesn't feel like we set up to get the most out of the players we have.
For example Mikhi is not really a traditional winger who wants to be wide and crossing it in from deep/the line, Martial is someone who should player closer to the box, Rashford at least at a senior level doesn't feel like a winger.
Yet we make them play relatively traditional wide roles and I don't think that works for them, I can't really think who our current system works for.
Part of the problem I think lies in what we want Pogba to be. At the moment I think we want to give him license to roam but that comes at a cost of needing the wider players to be more defensive and a bit of openness in our centre as Matic can't cover that much space if Pogba is caught high up the pitch.
However for me the problem is wider then that. It just feels from an attacking play that there isn't really a plan i.e. for example we're not working to say get Martial one on one with his fullback high up the pitch, it feels like we are relying on the individual talent of the players that something will happen and unfortunately we either have too many work in progress (Rahford/Martial) or senior players who are inconsistent i.e. Mikhi for that to always see us get enough goals.
Overall I think we are missing a top level performer in our attack but I also don't think we're getting what we can out of the options we have, that might not be enough to fully close the gap to City but I don't think with the options we have the gap should be this wide.
However I really don't think the players are as bad as the performances would suggest and that we're not really getting the most out of them. This doesn't take away from the individual poor performances but I just don't really see what our attacking style is compared to a City/Arsenal. It doesn't feel like we set up to get the most out of the players we have.
For example Mikhi is not really a traditional winger who wants to be wide and crossing it in from deep/the line, Martial is someone who should player closer to the box, Rashford at least at a senior level doesn't feel like a winger.
Yet we make them play relatively traditional wide roles and I don't think that works for them, I can't really think who our current system works for.
Part of the problem I think lies in what we want Pogba to be. At the moment I think we want to give him license to roam but that comes at a cost of needing the wider players to be more defensive and a bit of openness in our centre as Matic can't cover that much space if Pogba is caught high up the pitch.
However for me the problem is wider then that. It just feels from an attacking play that there isn't really a plan i.e. for example we're not working to say get Martial one on one with his fullback high up the pitch, it feels like we are relying on the individual talent of the players that something will happen and unfortunately we either have too many work in progress (Rahford/Martial) or senior players who are inconsistent i.e. Mikhi for that to always see us get enough goals.
Overall I think we are missing a top level performer in our attack but I also don't think we're getting what we can out of the options we have, that might not be enough to fully close the gap to City but I don't think with the options we have the gap should be this wide.
Haven't seen that before. Wow, that's pretty damning but not unthinkable when you look at how we approach the game. You have to admit that this is very concerning. Some time ago I also read some of the comments from players during his Inter days and they said that he wasn't all that tactically compared to Italian coaches in Seria A, however, he managed to motivate them like no other. There is clearly ground for being worried and having doubts given his current state and aura is no longer there with him, how he can motivate anyone right now.
We've needed a right winger/forward for god knows how long.
Didn't he set the record on the most goals scored in a season at Madrid?
Also, he had that siege mentality with his previous teams at Chelsea and Inter. I don't think it's working any longer.
Who? Rashford the academy boy? Martial the sub? Lukaku the new guy? Mikhi the new guy?
So, Mata and whom? Seriously, you don't buy a chicken and try to milk it.
I don’t think there’s even one of our attackers that would get in the Spurs or Liverpool starting 11, City and Chelsea isn’t even debatable.
Every single one of our attckers is over rated and flatters to deceive.
Every single one of our attckers is over rated and flatters to deceive.
Well some people think we’d bring in the Napoli coach and this lot will be scoring 100 goals plus.
A laughable claim, our forward are all hype and media stories. Our best attacker is in fact Lingard who’s widely regarded as a joke by many on here and second to him is Young who’s now playing full back!
He also assembled tough, warrior-like squads at both of those clubs. Here, he has absolutely nobody with any fire in the belly and the will to go the extra mile, maybe 2-3 players maximum. It's a 50/50 split for me, 50% him being past his sell-by-date at the top table of management and 50% poor characters within the squad and lacking in talent.
It would appear we're between a rock and a hard place.
Anyone with half a brain could see that we were going to struggle attacking wise today as soon as the line ups were out. Firstly, a front 4 of Lukaku, Lingard , Mata and Miki is pretty underwhelming. Very little pace, very little flair. Unfortunately it's a million miles away from the rest of the top sides.
Secondly, why on earth are we persisting with Mata on the right? It does not work, and it's never worked.
The recruitment over the years post Fergie has been a joke. To be lining up with that attack after spending whatever we've spent is a joke. We've been crying out for a world class right winger for years, but we never seem to be even linked with anyone.
Quite simply, the players aren't good enough and to make matters worse we seem to be putting square pegs in round holes. I just don't understand how it's been allowed to continue for so long considering the money spent.
Secondly, why on earth are we persisting with Mata on the right? It does not work, and it's never worked.
The recruitment over the years post Fergie has been a joke. To be lining up with that attack after spending whatever we've spent is a joke. We've been crying out for a world class right winger for years, but we never seem to be even linked with anyone.
Quite simply, the players aren't good enough and to make matters worse we seem to be putting square pegs in round holes. I just don't understand how it's been allowed to continue for so long considering the money spent.
A theory which can't, bar some weird scenario, ever be tested. Still, hindsight is great but you are looking at players who've already played a part of our rivals' teams. You can't just say Martial is no better if he hasn't played in such circumstances. You can say i also don't know, so what give you ask? I just think that our systems the last few years suit players who are different to those who we have.
Rashford and Martial, albeit different, both need a straight line to take on a defender. The opposite of Hazard, yet I keep seeing them in situations where the defender is right in front of them. Martial does have better feed in tight spaces but still. Another thing is that i see Rashford in the box quite often, even though the last header i remember off the top is the one against Arsenal.
Given that we have players like Mata and Pogba, I would think channel runs should be a must against any defense, yet we keep pushing the lads to the byline. Overlaps are another rarity. Too often i see the FB running only for Rashford to stop next the touch and wait. These are instructions, this much is obvious. We can only speculate but for me, it's clear that these players aren't used to their strengths.
Not posted in a while.
But looking at the comparisons and comments of our lads being inept, I thought I'd give my 10 cents.
Let's break it down:
City - Mourinho failed De Bruyne (and look what he's gone on and done).
Liverpool - He failed Salah
Chelsea - As soon as he left, people like Hazard and Pedro gained form again.
He's certainly improved out defenders. However, I refuse to accept that the following attackers are worse than our rivals:
- Martial
- Rashford
- Mkhitaryan
- Lingard
- Mata
Look at Mkhitaryan under Klopp.
Look at Mata before Mourinho joined Chelsea.
I think Mourinho has a tendency to destroy the confidence of certain of attacking players.
But looking at the comparisons and comments of our lads being inept, I thought I'd give my 10 cents.
Let's break it down:
City - Mourinho failed De Bruyne (and look what he's gone on and done).
Liverpool - He failed Salah
Chelsea - As soon as he left, people like Hazard and Pedro gained form again.
He's certainly improved out defenders. However, I refuse to accept that the following attackers are worse than our rivals:
- Martial
- Rashford
- Mkhitaryan
- Lingard
- Mata
Look at Mkhitaryan under Klopp.
Look at Mata before Mourinho joined Chelsea.
I think Mourinho has a tendency to destroy the confidence of certain of attacking players.
Another issue hindering our front line is the midfield. Why on earth are Pogba and Matic so deep?
They don’t influence anything in the final 3rd, if you look at City’s 3 CMs including Fernandinho, all 3 contribute in the final 3rd whereas ours just collect the ball off the defence and recycle it. There’s no drive or ambition to get past a man or run beyond our front line.
With Liverpool, Salah plays on the shoulder of the defender and looks to run in behind, stretching the play and giving an option. Every single one of our players comes short and closes the space. It reduces the space and gives fewer options to the man on the ball.
For me, our CMs and wide players are the biggest issue. Whether that’s tactical or down to Personnel, who knows.
They don’t influence anything in the final 3rd, if you look at City’s 3 CMs including Fernandinho, all 3 contribute in the final 3rd whereas ours just collect the ball off the defence and recycle it. There’s no drive or ambition to get past a man or run beyond our front line.
With Liverpool, Salah plays on the shoulder of the defender and looks to run in behind, stretching the play and giving an option. Every single one of our players comes short and closes the space. It reduces the space and gives fewer options to the man on the ball.
For me, our CMs and wide players are the biggest issue. Whether that’s tactical or down to Personnel, who knows.
Hazard had his first break through season under Jose.
What about Mkhitaryan under Klopp? One average season where he missed a host of chances vs Real Madrid and a poor season.
Mata played under LVG too you know.
Salah was sold by Conte. He benefited from going out on loan to Italy.
Mata played centrally, Oscar and Hazard came in and both wanted to play centrally. Mourinho used Oscar because he made tackles... Mata was pushed to the right where his form dipped for Chelsea and Hazard used on the left
So where did Lampard play? He certainly didn’t play in a midfield two especially at his age and he was a regular when Mata was there.
- We keep screaming our attack Everytime,our midfield doesn't score enough either..
- City midfield comes up with the goods if their attack isn't working,debruyne and Silva can get you goals..
- As much as the system doesn't bring out the best of our players,our attack is largely inconsistent.
- martial,rashford,lingard should be solid squad players or Incorporated with world class players who are consistent.even Micki Is so inconsistent,he deserves to be sold.mata doesn't score much either..
Behind Mata joining from attacking midfield
Absolute rubbish. Smalling and Jones are never gonna get any better than they are now. They were rubbish under Ferguson too.
Absolute laughable that people want Mourinho out before half the squad. Is it not completely obvious that most of them are shite? And it wasn’t just under Mourinho either!
This is a terrible post. It's as over-the-top as lazy. Overreactions like this make the 'Caf hard to stomach at times.