We won't really sign Javi Martinez though, will we?
Paul Pogba
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We won't really sign Javi Martinez though, will we?
We still got Petrucci and Tunicliffe, and behind them we got a bunch of promising midfielders. Nothing to worry about.
I'm sure he'll be much better off at Juventus and the next club his agent gets him a move to when the £2m he is making runs out.
I sense you've not picked up on the sarcasm in my post
None of us have any clue who we'll sign but if Pogba follows Morrison out of the club, the chance of us signing a central midfielder in the summer just got a lot more likely.
Logical enough Pogue...I LIKE it !
Because we were quite clearly the best team in the world? I think he may have been a bit more inclined to stay if we still were, just a thought ya know.
One of the best run clubs in the world.
I did alittle but I still am pissed off
Watching the reserves, the loss of Morrison and Pogba will be felt. It's such a waste on our part.I don't get why you are being so critical of the club, someone made an error with Pereira, it happens and I'm sure we'll be more vigilant in the future as for Pogba if he doesn't want to stay there's nothing you can do about it. You can't throw money at a guy who's played 4 times for the club and if reports are be believed we offered him more than what he'll get at Juve anyway.
For how long though? I must say i am getting a bit concerned by this. If Pogba is as talented as they all claim, then give him a decent wage.
What is the point of letting him go, then struggling to sign somebody as talented? We will probably end up signing someone more experienced, less talented for a much larger fee and comparetively huge wages.
What i don't understand is that if we were signing a top youngster from another club in europe, then we would pay at least £20m and probably give him 50k. We have probably given Jones and Smalling pretty decent wages despite them doing relatively little before joining us.
Midfield talent is costing a fortune these days, there are very few CB's who will cost £30m plus, but almost all the quality CM's will cost at least that and want 100k -150k a week. I don't really understand what our stance is for, if Pogba is as talented as everyone claims. It will be peanuts in the long term if he turns out the player many expect him to be.
Why, where's he leaving to?
I'd rather have players at the club who want to play for us. If Pogba doesn't want to play for us then good riddance.
Make your mind up. I was responding to a post in which you were saying he was leaving because he had a better chance to play first-team football. Currently, his chance of playing football for United is much higher than it would have been in 07-09.
If he wants to join Juve because he doesn't think this current United side is good enough to match his ambitions then... oh wait... that wouldn't make sense either...
I agree with what you are saying, it would be much cheaper in the long run to pay him the money he wants and keep him.
Unfortunately, it turns out he's most likely a little shit and his agent is a money grabbing twat.
That's mostly subjective though isn't it? That's a huge United fans' opinion of our club.
"Excellent recent record in Europe". He could think "just been dumped out of the CL at the first opportunity, potentially on the down vs Juventus back into the Champions League next season, young squad, on the up".
"Glaringly obvious need for new blood in my position". He could just as easily think "despite unbelievable injuries and the obvious need for new blood I'm still being overlooked in favour of out of position players."
"working with the most respected manager...". He could just as easily think "by the time my career begins to peak he isn't going to be the manager anymore and the uncertainty of a new manager and having to prove myself all over again is not an attractive prospect".
"Great track record of bringing through youth". "The last truly top player to come out of their academy occurred when I was in nappy's".
None of the theoretical answers are necessarily even close to the truth and I am deliberately playing devil's advocate, but try not to look at it from a United fans point of view. In fact, look at it as though it is a Liverpool fan deciding what to do with their career at a similar age.
Just read this tweet of Peter Morrison(agent of Will Keane and Tunnicliffe). Unbelievable some are blaming the club for this.
Well this is the point, he may be a little shit or he may just be a young player who knows his own worth in the current market. If he is as special as many seem to think then give him what he wants, if he isn't then i don't see what all the fuss is about?
We have paid more for the much less talented Bebe and Obertan. However we look at it we are taking punts on all the time on young unproven players, why should different circumstances be attributed to Pogba, just because we are not signing him from someone else?
The issue with giving him what he wants is the precedent it sets for other youngsters.
Sure he may turn out to be the best in the world in his position in 2018 or whatever but when (if) we're there we can't go back six years and tell all the other youth players in the meantime who demanded stellar wages that they're not at that level.
You can pay for potential in transfer fees but it's not really something you can afford to do with wages. He and his feckwit agent will know that if he has a good season next year that he'll be offered a larger contract, as happened with Hernandez and Smalling who were given upgraded deals just over a year after beginning with us with ages left on their existing contracts.
Sure he may turn out to be the best in the world in his position in 2018 or whatever but when (if) we're there we can't go back six years and tell all the other youth players in the meantime who demanded stellar wages that they're not at that level.
You can pay for potential in transfer fees but it's not really something you can afford to do with wages. He and his feckwit agent will know that if he has a good season next year that he'll be offered a larger contract, as happened with Hernandez and Smalling who were given upgraded deals just over a year after beginning with us with ages left on their existing contracts.
Cannt look at it from any other point of view im afraid.....its the only point of view I know.
Do you know what their salaries were?
As has been pointed out at least a hundred times in this thread already, the issue here is the precedent in terms of the wage structure at the club.
Also, I believe, the fact that his agent is a grade A bona fide money leeching greedy cnut who will feck us left, right, and center in near future for more benefits.
Why? Did Rooney's wage set a precedent for our other players? Special talents deserve special treatment, that is always the way of it. If Pogba is so special he should be given what he wants. The cost of replacing him with probably another less talented youngster, will far outweigh what it will cost to keep him in the current market.
Many don't want us to sign the established like Modric for £40m and 150k wages, so the probability is another youngster. How much cheaper would a top youngster be? We should ask ourselves how much we would be willing to pay if it was us signing Pogba from somewhere else?
Chances are it would be far far more than his current demands.
No, stop over complicating and over analysing things. Perhaps you need to give your brain a rest from all the posting you've done today. I said he'd be more inclined to stay, because we were the best team in the world during that period, a period where we were more capable of attracting the top players. Its a very simple concept of players wanting to play with better players and a better team (which we had 4 or 5 years ago now) that you're struggling grasp. This was just a thought, not a fact.
Someone like Rooney had proved his worth. Pogba has proved feck all.
Players need to earn their wages though. Cannot go about giving players great deals based on how good they might become in the future, that is not how you run a club. Sets a bad precedent for everyone involved.
Pogba does have great potential, but the keyword here is "potential". He isnt good enough currently to demand a huge pay, that'l come when he's proved himself. We gave the likes of smalling and chicha better deals after just a year or so of signing previous ones, we'd have done the same for pogba. All he needed is to prove himself when given the chance which would inevitably have come.
You cannot give a 18yr old with very few first team appearances massive wages, not at a club with a proper wage structure in place like we do. It'd be a recipe for disaster.
Why not give Tunni and Davide the same eh?
That Mats Daeli looks good...and him. Quick. They could all get more elsewhere.
In fact Tunni is far further down the line than Pogba in terms of experience.
How can you even compare him with Rooney? Rooney is our best player, pogba a youngster with great potential. There's a massive difference in what you'd do to accommodate the 2 of them.
That makes no sense at all as he's moving to Juve. A club worse than us atm. Also, if a player intends to make it at a club, surely having less competition at his slot is more favorable??
That wasn't the point i was making it was about setting precedents. Rooney is a special talent as is Pogba. What had Bebe or obertan proved? Or Diouf? We are scouriung the world for top talent and when we have it on our own doorstep we are willing to let it go over 20k and a couple of mil for the agent. Bizarre logic in my view.
I must say, you do have a point there. Especially if we go out and buy a midfielder come this summer for a few million quid.
It's all very well to say 'it's their loss' or 'good riddance to bad rubbish' or whatever. But supposing Sir Matt had decided that a young George Best had too much 'baggage', and pressed the ejector button on his Aston Martin (that ages me). How much less rich would the history of the club have been?
Keeping and getting the best from gifted, if troublesome, individuals is so important. The youth system hasn't turned up a top player since the fledgling era. We can't let the next generation go. We have to find a way to keep them.
Keeping and getting the best from gifted, if troublesome, individuals is so important. The youth system hasn't turned up a top player since the fledgling era. We can't let the next generation go. We have to find a way to keep them.
My gripe is we should deal with contracts with 2 years to go like we used to not one. Even if he can;'t sign pro, we should come to an agreement and if a player backs off from that - then fair enough. We shouldn't leave it with a year to go and not expect this sort of situation. We are Manchester United - people are watching. We shouldn't be talking bollocks about an additional year without knowing it's validity. Someone in legals not that bright if it's a case that it's invalid.
Good, if this prevents these problems from happening again then fair enough. It's all coming to a head now with our two best prospects deciding to leave and there's the possibility on the horizon of he same happening with Petrucci, who will now get the limelight vacated by these two. It seems we built our negotiation game plan with Pogba around the fact that we had the option to extend should Pogba not accept our first offer. To find out the option is illegal is a balls up, whichever way you look at it.
Right so here's what happens.
Let's say that we give 19 year old Pogba $50k a week to stay here. Then players like Tunnicliffe, Petrucci, Daehli, Van Velzen etc will also want some large amount of money to stay. Now it's fine to say oh well Pogba is a special case if we assume he goes on to be an absolute monster for us and is one of the best in the world by like 2020 but until he fulfils that potential we're going to have other youth team players who have also proved nothing yet demanding ridiculous wages.
It's a gamble that doesn't pay off really unless (and until) he fulfils his talent, which isn't guaranteed
I was comparing the precedent set by special dispensation Varun not the players contributions.
But you don't have to give a player xxx amount in wages if you make it incremental. If a player demands the same and we don't believe he's good enough, it's not our problem. If we do, then we can do the same. But for anyone to prove anything, they need games.
So Pogba has gone?
Has the new policy of negotiating contracts with one year to go had any influence in this?
Has the new policy of negotiating contracts with one year to go had any influence in this?
yes because Sir Alex said he changed agents. Though that's speculative as we don't know when that was. I don't believe he was his agent the season prior to this. It was 'too quiet' ..
Or perhaps we decided not to enforce it light of Pogba's unwillingness to stay.
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