So 2 years ago he had a different agent and now he has a cnut?
But lets say he had the same cnut agent he has today 2 years ago would that have made any difference?
Paul Pogba
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So 2 years ago he had a different agent and now he has a cnut?
But lets say he had the same cnut agent he has today 2 years ago would that have made any difference?
But that comes down to what? Money/football. It depends on what side of the fence you want to sit on. I think he's nothing like Morrison. He's not noted for his twitter account. He was settled here, his brother coming down to watch him play. Another year can make a world of difference and I just don't believe the club would be that petty. I think we can. I don't think the club would.
I doubt it. The type of exposure is worth it for his agent. Playing for a big club, knowing that he can't sign a pro contract yet. It's ideal.
I got that. Perhaps i didnt make myself clearer.
Offering Rooney the deal he wanted tells others that as a club, we recognize the fact that he's our best player and are paying him accordingly. Also, it tells others that they too can get great deals if they match Rooney's contribution to our team.
But, bending over and giving pogba a great pay package wouldnt be based on anything he has done so far. It'd be based on how good he "potentially" is. What are we to say when say a tuncliffe comes around and says that he too has great "talent and potential". Can we really tell him to prove himself or will we have to accept his demands too just like we did with pogba.
I am all for paying our players what they deserve mate, wages all over the world have gone up and we have to keep up. But, what am against is paying players based on their "potential" and how good they could possibly become. Doesnt work that way for me.
You prove yourself, you get paid better. You dont get paid better now based on how good you can be 4yrs down the line.
We are gonna have to go and buy now aren't we? Giggs and Scholes are getting older and I fully expect the injury rate to continue. We've lost our two most promising youth players in years, in that position.
And how much is that gonna cost us in transfer fee and wages? And there's no guarantee signing x will make it at the club like there was no guarantee Pogba/Morrison would succeed for us.
And how much is that gonna cost us in transfer fee and wages? And there's no guarantee signing x will make it at the club like there was no guarantee Pogba/Morrison would succeed for us.
Why would he think he would have a better chance at United though? He had barely got a look in despite all the problems we have had in his preferred position. There is nothing to suggest staying at United will be of some great benefit to his career.
For those who use Ferguson as a reason, how long do you think he will stay around? It's not as if he will be the one developing Pogba throughout his career.
Juventus are also a fantastic club. He will to go on to become as good as he is supposed to be there. It's not only united who can develop a player.
He isn't a local lad. He isn't a United supporter. He isn't going to have the devotion to the club as the likes of Giggs.
Despite what people think, United are not exactly known for bringing young foreign talent through either.
Leaving United is as likely to further his career as it is to damage it. We don't know.
We said that before and we haven't bought in that position in years.
No need to be ridiculous to make your point. As i said if Pogba is as special as everyone seems to be, then special players get special dispensation. It's not that hard to comprehend mate.
It has feck all to do with experience either, it's about talent that is what you pay the extra for.
Petrucci has always been my favourite of all our youngsters. I'm still pinning my hopes on him!
We're a club that rewards our youngsters when they do prove themselves, not a club who shelve out wages based upon their potential alone.
I don't want that to change, so if that involves not keeping Pogba, fine by me.
I don't want that to change, so if that involves not keeping Pogba, fine by me.
I remember when Obi Mikel ended up going to Chelsea. We were all lead to believe that Chelsea had beaten us to the new Maradonna. What a steaming pile of shite he turned out to be. So Pogba is a huge talent but lets not cry over losing a player that has done nothing yet while the jury is still out.
But the thing is you just can't tell at this age and really they shouldn't be demanding stuff. Look at Cleverley, he almost got let go by the club, scholes was apparently on the fringes too, maybe not for quality but regardless at this age you just can't say. Pogba looks great but then maybe his physique helps him out a lot at this level and that won't translate to a higher level. There are plenty of players who clubs have bigged up who have gone on to do very little and there are plenty of footballers not seen as special who have gone on to have very influential careers, look at g.nev.
At the end of the day as I've said there will always be another player. We can always find someone else or find a way round. Our policy might see us lose a few stars and it might also see us escape having a costly flop on our hands. Giving in though would change the whole wage structure of the club and would set a tone to all players at the club that we'll bend over for them. You can't compare with Rooney as there are a handful of players in the world who can legitimately make the same claims as him. I'd rather take the hit and show we still have prinicples then give in.
Eventually clubs are going to have to say no to players and agents. Look at Rangers, there are plenty of other clubs out there like this. As I said we might lose some stars but we'll always find a way round, not everyone will jump ship for money. And I reckon sooner rather than later player wages and agent fees etc will get reigned in.
I blame Berba. I really do. He cost us £30m and gets £100k for sitting on his arse. As a talented youngster you would be thinking I'm worth at least half as much - so give me £50k a week!
/humour
Back to reality. No need to over analyse this issue. He's gone - lets see how he does.
/humour
Back to reality. No need to over analyse this issue. He's gone - lets see how he does.
I give up on us buying a CM s as long as scholes and giggs is still playing on.
The point being made was that we broke away from what we usually pay our established stars when we accommodated Rooney's wage demands. We did so obviously because we thought he was special. It doesn't mean we'll do the same for everyone.
If we can change the wage structure for established stars, why can't we do the same for the other levels of players at the club, if we thought they are special as well? The reason why Pogba's departure is causing so much debate is because we think he just might turn out to be special.
A couple of years from now, it might well turn out that 30 or 40k is the standard wage that all upcoming, talented teenage players would ask for anyway.
Knowing us we'll put Jones in midfield and buy a defender
We're giving Nani, our 2nd/3rd best player £130k a week, not THAT far off Rooney, so I think the club are just doing it in terms of players importance to the club. Rooney is our best and most marketable player, considering wages across the world, 180k really isn't that bad.
Offering Pogba 40k+ would be mental. He'd basically be on similar wages to DDG, Jones, Chico etc
We pay players all the time based on potential, especially those signed from elsewhere Varun. Should we let Pogba leave we will no doubt do exactly that to replace him this summer.
I got your point first time by the way and i agree in principle, but seeing as we are continually scouring the world looking for unproven potential to take a punt on, i was struggling to see the relevance of it.
Can you not see the contradiction? We pay transfer fees, agent fees and wages for the likes of Bebe, Obertan, Diouf etc, yet we turn our noses up about doing the same for a player more talented than all 3 together simply because we already have him.
If we were siging Pogba from Juventus tomorrow for £10m and offering him 30k a week, based solely on his potential, there would be considerably more excitement about that prospect than anger i would suspect. Furthermore i doubt anyone would give a feck about how much his agent was getting.
thank christ the 90 min rule is going
Add them together with their transfer fees and i would wager it would be no less than what Pogba is demanding. I never said i did know them but Pogba might, if you saw someone less tallented than you getting paid more for positions that do not cost as much to fill, would you be satisfied?
The bottom line Pogue is we will pay more to replace him than we will to keep him. He is the type of special talent which we scour the planet for, and this is one right on our doorstep. Do we let him go over 20k, and then spend more than that in the summer on another unproven youngster with probably less talent? Sorry makes very little sense to me.
Exactly!
So you think it's ok to pay Pogba the same wages as Jones, DDG, Rafabio, Henrnandez, Welbeck etc etc?
You're making shit up again.
Name a young player we signed whose salary has been higher than what was offered to Pogba based on his potential?
feck it, name the salary we offered Pogba?
Regarding the rest of your post, how many times do you need it pointed out to you that transfer fees and our wage structure are completely different issues? Using your logic, Michael Owen should demand to be the best paid player at the club because we signed him on a free.
Using his logic we'd be Man City. Pay whatever the feck we need to for a players wages as long as we get him.
Nothing's guaranteed Sharky. The point you are missing is we are buying youngsters from other clubs all over the world and paying fees and wages that would be more than those in our academy. Bebe has probably cost close to 10m and for what. At least we can recognise Pogba's talent.
Your point would stand if it was confined to our own youngsters, but for a club that spends it's time taking gambles on potential, it seems a bit illogical in my book.
Proof?
You don't think that's what they do already?
Or to put it another way. Do you really think they offered Pogba no more than they would offer any other kid his age?
There's a world of difference between offering our most promising youngsters what we believe to be a contract that reflects their current standing and future potential, with offering them whatever the hell they want.
That's the madness in this whole discussion. Absolutely nobody on here has any idea exactly how much we offered Pogba. Nor do they know how much was offered by Juventus. The club has a wage structure in place and no contract negotiations takes place in isolation but it beggars belief that people assume there was not a very generous offer on the table.
To quote his own fecking agent "The money in Manchester is very good"
What's the latest ? Has he fecked finally fecked off ?
This is thread is amazing. You'd think Pogba was the second coming or something. We offered what we was prepared to pay him, Juve offered what they were prepared to pay him.
He choose the best offer for himself for whatever reasons. Might not actually be down to money or it might just be bad advice. However, to go all crazy and say how Fergie and United have fecked is taking it way too far!
Threads like these bring 'them' out don't they?
He choose the best offer for himself for whatever reasons. Might not actually be down to money or it might just be bad advice. However, to go all crazy and say how Fergie and United have fecked is taking it way too far!
Threads like these bring 'them' out don't they?
Let's be honest, If they cave into his wage demands now it not only sets a precedent but if he is demanding such high money when he hasn't impacted at all on the first team what the hell would he be like as a regular starter? He obviously doesn't have the right attitude and Fergie knows that, the likes of Cleverley, Welbeck and Macheda have had more chances than Pogba by this age, clearly if the attitude is right you are rewarded and if he can't see that then fine, clearly this would have lead to problems in the future.
Welbeck and Cleverley hadn't had any chances by his age either, they were about to go on loan, which presumably he would be.
Worked out fine for them so far.
Pogue you know i don't know the salaries anymore than you do, but what difference does it make? We are all debating the issue without knowing all the details anyway.
Answer this question for me instead of your usual nitpicking. If we were buying Pogba tomorrow from another club how much would he cost in today's market? You know fine well it will cost us a lot more to replace him than it will to keep him and probably with someone not as talented.
All the established stars and now potential ones are costing more than ever before. It won't be long before all of the most promising talents are asking for such wages. We are already unwilling to pay £40m plus 150k -200k for a Modric or a Sneijder, if we are also unwilling to pay the going rate for potential stars, where exactly does that leave us?
By the looks of things though, it wasn't wage demands. We were offeing more, it's paying agents fees that did this one in.
I accept a lot of what you say, but the hard reality is, if we believe what Fergie has publicly claimed, Pogba may well prove Manchester United quality. If that is indeed so, he will be worth a minimum of £15M/£20M in a few years. And he is now leaving the club for the princely sum of £300,000.
To clarify, lets look at some (imaginary) figures. For the sake of argument, lets say we were prepared to offer Pogba £25g/week and he wanted £50g/week. 1.25M /year more. Should we have been prepared to accept?
Well, if we really believed that he would prove good enough to play for us, a modest valuation would be £16M. Spread over a 4 year contract that's £4M/year. In other words, we would still be getting a huge bargain.
That's what I meant when I talked about assessing a young players true worth.
Why, then, would Pogba pick juve? Is it because the agent fees comedy out of his own pocket if he picks united?
Welbeck had played and scored at 17, and featured in a few cup games that year including semi final, you are right about Cleverley though but he was still far more in the frame by the nature of him being on loan.
Pogba hasn't done shit.
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