It's not all about having the technical ability though, is it? It's a lot down to mental toughness. Any footballer, never mind an 18 year old, could find the prospect of playing in front of 76,000 fans expecting a demanding victory, very overwhelming. Youngsters need to be eased in to such a scenario.
Paul Pogba
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It's not all about having the technical ability though, is it? It's a lot down to mental toughness. Any footballer, never mind an 18 year old, could find the prospect of playing in front of 76,000 fans expecting a demanding victory, very overwhelming. Youngsters need to be eased in to such a scenario.
Pogba will be the real deal in a couple of years. He's a big unit and he will get stronger.
He's too good for the reserves now and could probably do with a loan to somewhere like Peterbrough for 6 months or so. I just wish he didn't practice shooting with Anderson though
He's too good for the reserves now and could probably do with a loan to somewhere like Peterbrough for 6 months or so. I just wish he didn't practice shooting with Anderson though
SAF, to me at least, tends to favor an approach for youngsters whereby a player spends their first "true" season training with the men's team, playing in smaller tournament games, soaking up the culture, and learning good habits - then are sent on loan for a season or two to get playing time. They come back and Fergie attempts to bring them into the side and it's up to them to earn it.
Cleverly, Macheda, and Welbeck come to mind.
Cleverly, Macheda, and Welbeck come to mind.
Maybe it's just you. He looks anything but slow when I have seen him playing. I wouldn't be writing him off after the guts of 90 minutes first team action. He will come good, and fast.
Pogba will be the real deal in a couple of years. He's a big unit and he will get stronger.
He's too good for the reserves now and could probably do with a loan to somewhere like Peterbrough for 6 months or so. I just wish he didn't practice shooting with Anderson though
Its composure. We've seen Pogba hit enough beauties to know his technique is fantastic. Composure will come with time.
I can't see him going out on loan, training with the first team and playing reserves is probably right for the moment rather than giving him a potentially unsettling experience away from the club.
If the player has potential then he'll get noticed. At this stage a young player's aim is to play as many games as possible and there are managers out there capable of giving him that. Lets face it, a player must play regular football to demand big money to the club and United cannot afford paying top dollar to a promising kid whose hardly involved in the team .
Now if you believe that 80 minutes of gameplay against shit sides is enough to keep Pogba at OT then I respect (altough I dont share) your opinion. However it wasn't me who came with odd scenarios but SAF. He said that if Pogba isn't involved in the first team then he would probably end up leaving.
Giggs, Owen and Ronaldo were all involved in first team football at quite a young age and it didn't hinder them one bit. What concerns me is the lack of quality in our CM. We lack of a leader/quality player capable of covering his arse when needed. Scholes had Keane, what do we have? Fletcher? Apart from that, then I see nothing wrong in seeing Pogba more involved into the first team. Im not saying that we should play him in every game but FFS we're not even giving him 90 minutes against Aldershit
Did you miss the bit above where it was pointed out that Owen was overplayed in his youth, leaving his hamstrings wrecked?
They didn't start against AldershOt because Berbatov, Owen, Valencia etc needed the games and it's hugely important to United that they're match fit and ready - I would have thought that's obvious. Pogba and Morrison get regular work outs in the reserves, last night it was hugely important that certain first teamers got game time.
What ruined Owen was playing football when he needed time to recover from injury and not playing in the first team. Giggs starting playing first team football at age 17 (same thing can be said about Rooney). He's still playing now. No one is saying that Pogba should play week in week out but only that he should be given more first time chances (which considering the quality we've got in central midfield then its worth a try since they may surprise us). Who knows, maybe it could spare us from spending money on a new CM
While I understand the urgency of keeping our 5th (or Owen is 6th choice nowadays?) and 7th striker (Diouf) fit and happy, I still insist that if Morrison/Pogba are as good as you're portraying them then they deserve more then 40minutes with Aldershit. I doubt that you'll convince a kid that he has a future at OT by only giving him minutes in some game against reserve level opposition.
Stop it, devilish. You're embarrassing yourself.
Haha (sorry smileys not working)
'Wouldn't convince a player they have a future'. This is Manchester United ffs. And you're talking about teenagers. They're obviously not going to waltz their way into the first team. I find it hilarious how so many people take the rooneys and fabregas' as the norm forgetting that they are rare and that usually young players cannot simply be thrown into first team action.
Also, surely by now we can trust Fergie's handling of young players. I think he's been decent at it in his short time at this club, right? I think he possibly (long shot I know) knows these youngsters as people and players better than us fans and hence knows how to pace their inclusion?
'Wouldn't convince a player they have a future'. This is Manchester United ffs. And you're talking about teenagers. They're obviously not going to waltz their way into the first team. I find it hilarious how so many people take the rooneys and fabregas' as the norm forgetting that they are rare and that usually young players cannot simply be thrown into first team action.
Also, surely by now we can trust Fergie's handling of young players. I think he's been decent at it in his short time at this club, right? I think he possibly (long shot I know) knows these youngsters as people and players better than us fans and hence knows how to pace their inclusion?
Not every youngster is as head strong as the aforementioned players. Ronaldo's sheer arrogance and determination to succeed is what has made him one of the best players in the world (along side is ridiculous amount of talent), it is also what made him mentally strong enough to handle the pressure at United. Not every teenager has that quality, actually, I would think it is a small minority. A lot of youngsters' confidence is very fragile, and one bad performance for the first team, could heavily damage their mentality and delay his progress.
If Fergie doesn't think he is ready, he's not ready.
You gave Owen as an example and I told you why Owen ended in the way he ended. Owen's problem was not that he wasn't head strong but it was simply due to overplaying (ie playing him when he was injured/needed rest). Im not suggesting that we should do the same with Pogba.
My point is simple. We have a very weak CM and we also have some good kids coming through. Now why shouldn't we try and see if these kids are able to solve our CM problem once and for all? If they fail, feck it. Its not as if 1-2 EPL games will ruin them forever.
We wont know if these kids are ready unless we try them out. At the end of the day we may be pleasantly surprised by them.
We lost 60m worth of talent in the past few years because we didn't give them a decent run into the team (Pique-Rossi). Foreign talent is different from homegrown ones. They tend not to see United as the center of the football's world and they are prone of having less patience then the homegrown ones
We'd have lost Pique regardless because he always wanted to play for Barcelona first and foremost, besides he had absolutely no chance of making first team with us, nor would he be a regular right now. Same goes for Rossi really, a good striker but would he get into team ahead of Hernandez and Welbeck right now? Doubtful.
He's still going on? fecks sake.
Eh? I didn't once mentioned Owen.
wdf happened in here?
Devilish happened
Watched the second half of the Aldershot game again before. I think that people saying that Pogba looked like a youngster trying to impress are being very harsh on him. He didn't look out of place in that team at all. Showed a very good understanding of how to play in midfield, outmuscled their players on a few occasions and looked very assured on the ball. He was always available for the passes and the more senior players were more than happy to give him the ball.
I've said this before but he reminds me a bit of Scholesy. Lots of neat one-touch passes with the inside and outside of his boot. He just strokes it around the pitch in such a similar fashion. That outside of the foot ball to valencia was quality. How can anyone say he didn't look confident after that cameo?
I've said this before but he reminds me a bit of Scholesy. Lots of neat one-touch passes with the inside and outside of his boot. He just strokes it around the pitch in such a similar fashion. That outside of the foot ball to valencia was quality. How can anyone say he didn't look confident after that cameo?
My only complaint about Pogba, and it's such a minor one that it's probably irrelevant, is that he often looks to go back with the ball before seeing if there's options available forward. He sometimes positions himself to make a pass back rather than forward when there's no need.
That said, it's a tiny complaint, and I'm obviously nitpicking. His short range passing is good, as are his long balls. He's mobile for such a big lad and he's not afraid to get stuck in. He really could be an important player for us, just needs more time.
That said, it's a tiny complaint, and I'm obviously nitpicking. His short range passing is good, as are his long balls. He's mobile for such a big lad and he's not afraid to get stuck in. He really could be an important player for us, just needs more time.
He is only doing that at this level, wants to minimize his mistakes I think, he is much more adventurous when he is not playing for first team.
Yeah, the one time I saw him in the flesh he constantly looked for the forward ball, although he did play very deep
Pogba will be the real deal in a couple of years. He's a big unit and he will get stronger.
He's too good for the reserves now and could probably do with a loan to somewhere like Peterbrough for 6 months or so. I just wish he didn't practice shooting with Anderson though
It could only be of benefit to Anderson. Pogba's shooting from range is immense.
Devilish, why dont you give us your opinion on Pogba
Pogba will ask for a move because at 18 he NEEDS to be a regular.
But we don't know what was asked for him...even in the reserves we've asked something different of him for alot of this season ie play on the wing. I think that we were looking for balance and gave Pogba the defensive duty so that Ravel could come on and do what he did.
I've actually met Pogba and I saw him play life once. He's a quite technically gifted player and a big strong lad . Physically wise I think he's ready. Experience wise...he's still rough on the edges but considering his age that is a given.
I don't know whether he's ready for the EPL or not but I don't see it as a tragedy if he's given some games (my point). CM is starving for some quality and Pogba/Morrison may be the answer. If they fail it won't really be a tragedy, I mean, I never seen a kid leaving football or committing suicide after a bad match.
It's October. Who's to say he won't get games between now and the end of the season. The first step is CC games. If he does well in those games he might get a few minutes here and there. That's always been the way it works. I'm not even sure what point you're making here but it's fairly obvious that Fergie knows exactly what he's doing when it comes to exact timing of bring through young players at the right time, for them and for the club.
I hope he gives him matches. I met the guy, he's a good player and he's quite a nice down to earth guy. I think that he can handle more then few minutes against third rated sides and I don't want to see him take the Rossi/Pique route.
It takes time though, especially with Pogba being foreign, I think he also had an issue with stamina initially when he joined us. Also his positioning still needs working on, as with Morrison the talent isn't in question but other facets of his game are, I think SAF is probably the best at blooding young talent because he's very good at picking the right moment to throw them into the deep end. Look at Welbeck and Cleverley, 2 loans for them so we should be looking at 2 years before Pogba is a first team squad player, same with Morrison although he might not go on loan.
Personally, I don't think they'll both go out on loan. Just a feeling though, which might just be me being hopeful. I think there comes a time where a youngster is probably a bit above playing for youth and reserve teams and they need to be surrounded by better players to take that next step. The usual solution is to give them game time with the first team.
Obviously they may make mistakes here and there, but after being involved in 10 games or so, they will naturally iron out these mistakes. Watching them for the reserves makes me feel that it's too comfortable for them and isn't really a test.
An example of how they will improve with better players can be drawn from the Aldershot game. When Morrison played that flick to Berbatov, it was instantly returned for him to run on to but he didn't expect it. This is probably because the level of player that he currently plays with wouldn't have pulled this off. Give him more time with better players around him and you'd see a natural improvement from that experience alone.
Obviously they may make mistakes here and there, but after being involved in 10 games or so, they will naturally iron out these mistakes. Watching them for the reserves makes me feel that it's too comfortable for them and isn't really a test.
An example of how they will improve with better players can be drawn from the Aldershot game. When Morrison played that flick to Berbatov, it was instantly returned for him to run on to but he didn't expect it. This is probably because the level of player that he currently plays with wouldn't have pulled this off. Give him more time with better players around him and you'd see a natural improvement from that experience alone.
It seems devilish has seen the completely made up media rumors of pogba leaving for arsenal and is taking them a bit too seriously
I agree with your post in general but am not sure loaning morrison out would be a great idea for obvious reasons. he needs to stay here under the watchful eyes of Sir Alex.
That's the only explanation to why he's saying all these things about Pogba. In the Morrison thread he's saying basically the exact opposite and that we shouldn't get too excited by him and to give him time.
In the Morrison's thread I said that 40 mins against a rubbish side is not the best way to judge a player's skill. That doesn't mean that I don't want to see him being introduced to EPL football. (Same as Pogba). If he's good enough then he's not too young.
Im believing SAF's 'rumors' that if we don't give Pogba faith then he'll end up leaving. And guess what? I believe them.
Pogba is going to become an absolute beast of a player. His cameo appearances in the league cup matches will have done him the world of good.
Everyone (us fans included) just needs to have patience with him.
Everyone (us fans included) just needs to have patience with him.
Great talent, but let's not forget that when asked if he might go out on loan, SAF said 'he's not ready'.
I would guess that his progress will be like Welbeck, sporadic appearances this year, loan to Sunderland with a few France caps the next, then a true rising star in 2013-14.
I would guess that his progress will be like Welbeck, sporadic appearances this year, loan to Sunderland with a few France caps the next, then a true rising star in 2013-14.
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