Not sure about the reports at all, the signed a contract in the March of 2010, I doubt we'd sign one of our hottest prospects on an 30 month contract. However as people have pointed out there's no smoke without fire. However I should remind you that Cleverley's contract ran into it's final 6 months before he got a deal, so I'm not worried yet.
Paul Pogba
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He may have been 15 If I recall correctly....
Ok maybe my orginal post was a little harsh on fletcher. I fully understand how fergie brings in youth when the time is right. However……anderson was put on to take a penatly kick in a champions league final at 18 years old. Darren fletcher was given his chance at 17 years old.
Based on the form of those two players over the last 18 months……….could pogba do any worse????? If he started with carrick on Saturday would we have got beat? Would he have been out of his depth??? I don’t think he would…..and if fergie does than perhaps pogba isnt all he's cracked up to be.
My point was simply that everybody within the club has a great deal of belief in him. 18 isnt that young anymore. Rooney, ronaldo, da silva, phil jones, anderson, johnny evans, danny wellbeck, kiko macheda de gea all got there chance in the first team at a simialr age. I don’t think there is any doubt we are short in midfield. So in my opinion pogba is quite rightfully questionning the fact that anderson, fletcher and even gibson are all playing central midfield this year (or making the bench) and he isnt. I think it would be a shame and a huge blow if we lost him based on him not getting games.
The point of my orginal post is simply……….pogba surley cant do any worse than fletcher has been producing. So if playing him keeps him……give him a run out.
Based on the form of those two players over the last 18 months……….could pogba do any worse????? If he started with carrick on Saturday would we have got beat? Would he have been out of his depth??? I don’t think he would…..and if fergie does than perhaps pogba isnt all he's cracked up to be.
My point was simply that everybody within the club has a great deal of belief in him. 18 isnt that young anymore. Rooney, ronaldo, da silva, phil jones, anderson, johnny evans, danny wellbeck, kiko macheda de gea all got there chance in the first team at a simialr age. I don’t think there is any doubt we are short in midfield. So in my opinion pogba is quite rightfully questionning the fact that anderson, fletcher and even gibson are all playing central midfield this year (or making the bench) and he isnt. I think it would be a shame and a huge blow if we lost him based on him not getting games.
The point of my orginal post is simply……….pogba surley cant do any worse than fletcher has been producing. So if playing him keeps him……give him a run out.
Why do people play into the speculation so much? We know next to nothing about anything, there's no point assuming Pogba wants to leave, or that he's considering it. Surely you could just hold off a while and save yourself from looking a bit stupid when there's pretty much no information on this.
Anderson was 20 when he took that Champions League final penalty and Fletcher's breakthrough season was when he was 19. People mature at different ages.
for feck sake splitting hairs.
we are short of midfielders.
we have a young lad who everybody is raving about.
he appears to be a very good prospect.
he's a big strong lad.
he wants to play football for us.
he plays in a position in which we are struggling in.
would it do any harm at all to play him.
against benfica the other night darren gibson is sat on the bench yawning all night. if i was pogba id be thinking....."how come he's straight in"
we are short of midfielders.
we have a young lad who everybody is raving about.
he appears to be a very good prospect.
he's a big strong lad.
he wants to play football for us.
he plays in a position in which we are struggling in.
would it do any harm at all to play him.
against benfica the other night darren gibson is sat on the bench yawning all night. if i was pogba id be thinking....."how come he's straight in"
Probably because Gibson is...22? 23? And has previous experience of playing in the Champion's League right up to the semi-finals.
I can see your frustration and understand parts of it... but you can't be serious about this, can you? Again, Fletch has played about 10 seasons for our first team, making around 300 appearances, starring in countless big games against some of the best midfields in the world, captains his country etc.
Pogba so far has done... well, next to feck all on first team-level. No one doubts his potential and ability, especially not Fergie it seems, but your 'original point' has been far off the actual reality.
Central midfield is one of most difficult areas on the pitch to bring through young players. In fact most usually play out wide when they break through, because errors can be ironed out easier there and usually prove less costly on the wings. And young players always make errors, even Ronaldo and Messi did at a young age.
IMO Pogba needs to be patient, and the same is required from us supporters. Of course I want to see Pogba getting games ahead of someone like Gibson who - with all due respect - is a dead man walking within our squad, but still I can see why Fergie is giving Gibbo games - he's got the experience Pogba lacks, has played first team and Champions League football. Pogba will surely soon enough get a taste of it as well, and it's up to him to grab his chance with both hands. If he decides to sulk and feck off, well goodbye, it's his loss.
Are you trying to shut down the caf?
Why should Pogba expect to play over Gibson? What experience does he have in the Champions League?
Just because he is a very talented player, with a lot of potential, it doesn't mean he is just ready to start playing games. Whether he thinks he's ready or not is completely immaterial, unless he's been secretly managing United these past 20+ years. The fact is, he won't know when he's ready for United or not, but Fergie will, and if he feels that there would be nothing to lose in playing Pogba more often, we would have done that. As it is, it doesn't take a genius to work out why we would be playing the likes of Fletcher over Pogba, regardless of how badly he might want matches or not. Experience.
And say you chuck Pogba in on the deep end, you seem to think that he could only succeed. You ask what the worst is that could happen, did you read that interview from Fergie about young players being thrown in too early? The affect it could have on them could be extensive, and it could delay their progression if they aren't ready for the that level of football.
"From there, we'll bring the boy into first-team training for a couple of sessions. That's what we're doing at the moment with Paul Pogba, Ravel Morrison, Jesse Lingard, Zeki Fryers, Larnell Cole and Michael Keane. They're all training with the first team.
"That allows me to see how they cope playing against seasoned professionals, it lets me judge their temperament. It allows me to get a far better picture of how they're progressing. And, while this is going on, you hope they're playing well for the Reserves and displaying the right attitude and enthusiasm.
"Players are never simply thrown into first-team action," he asserted. "They always follow this step-by-step process.
"I don't think we've ever been off the mark and given a boy his chance too early. That can be very damaging. If he's not up to the standards we require at United, then we don't venture there. The last thing we'd want is to humiliate a player. I'm not saying every player I've ever given a debut to has gone on to be a fantastic player at this club, but most of them have at least forged successful careers."
"That allows me to see how they cope playing against seasoned professionals, it lets me judge their temperament. It allows me to get a far better picture of how they're progressing. And, while this is going on, you hope they're playing well for the Reserves and displaying the right attitude and enthusiasm.
"Players are never simply thrown into first-team action," he asserted. "They always follow this step-by-step process.
"I don't think we've ever been off the mark and given a boy his chance too early. That can be very damaging. If he's not up to the standards we require at United, then we don't venture there. The last thing we'd want is to humiliate a player. I'm not saying every player I've ever given a debut to has gone on to be a fantastic player at this club, but most of them have at least forged successful careers."
If only we had a manager who had some experience of bringing young players through eh?
how and when did he get that experiance. played against bayern munich a few years ago so based on ages you have given he was 20-21 and playing in a champions league qauter final.
exactly my point.....everybody else in the squad played at 18, 19, 20. so pogba is in my opinion quite unstandably asking "why arent i involved" im sure 10-15 minutes as a sub would keep him happy.
i totally understand the lads frustrations and stand by my point that based on form and fitness of others he certainly wouldnt weaken our team
You don't even know if this 'frustration' even exists yet. For all you know there could be an article released damning the earlier events and saying he's happy to wait for his chance.
Gibson was 23 at the time of that Champs League QF with Bayern (he's an 1987 kid)
we have the best manager at doing that. he has given the opportunity to countless 18 years olds.
he said at the start of the season that we arent signing anybody because it would hold back pogba. he obviousley thinks highly of him.
so all im saying is i can understand pogba's frustartions at not being involved. i think it would be a shame to loose such a prospect because he didnt get a 10-15 minute run out every now and then. as ive said time and again..........its not like we have keane and scholes dominating the central midfield is it. if carrick anderson cleverley and fletcher where all fighting fit abd pulling up tree's with there form i dont think pogba could be in a position to expect football. but the simple fact is two of them aare out injured, flecthers form is not good and carricks form has only just returned.
we have a 20 year old keeper. a 19 year old centre half. the da silva's played at 18 as did kiko, wellbeck and many others. i am sure pogba is simply asking "why am i not getting a look in"?
Gibson is 24. When he played in that Champions League-tie against Bayern Munich, he was 22, with a couple of seasons in and around the first team, plus loan spells at other clubs, with regular senior football included. Paul Pogba is 18, and has made two brief first team appearances in his senior career.
Pogba looked rushed and not entirely comfortable against Leeds, against Aldershot he looked comfortable enough - but let's be honest, that game was dead when he came in, and we were completely cruising - and it was bloody Aldershot. Look at a player like Park against the same standard of opposition, albeit in a slightly alien central mid-position - totally running the show, looking the absolute part for his whole involvement against Leeds and Aldershot.
Turn the tempo up four or five notches, along with the general level of football, and a crunch match against Benfica which we had to win to have any hope of winning our group in th CL perhaps wasn't the right place for Pogba.
Seriously, some posters simply doesn't think things through before posting. Astonishing. To think that someone believes Pogba is on the level of Fletcher as of now.. the mind boggles.
Well Fabio played in a champions league final ahead of some very experienced players....
The amount of Mary Jay you've smoked, i'm surprised you can recall what you had for breakfast old man
Based on form and fitness from others...You mean players who have played countless games for our first team? He could very easily weaken our time, I'm not sure how you can't see that. I've followed Pogba for a long time and can't wait for his career to really take off, he has immense potential. But the fact is we've been limited to seeing his performances at reserve level, not the premiership or champions league. He could easily weaken our team, he might come in and have a phenomenal season for all I know but he could very easily weaken the team, given his experience at this level is completely non-existent.
if your regarded as a future star you wouldnt be happy sitting on the bench watching some of our performances of late......nevermind not even making the bench when at the start of the season you where told you'd be getting a look in.
there's no smoke without fire.
Sigh.. You just don't get it, do you? Fabio was at the end of his third season with United when he started that final - and had previous experience in the competition, along with a host of other appearances, plus training with the first team for three years, married to the fact that he was in the form of his life - Pogba has barely entered a pitch in senior football.
And Rooney was just 18 years old when he scored a hatrick in the Champions League.
What does that have to do with any other player and how they break into our team?
What does that have to do with any other player and how they break into our team?
which is why you give him 10-15 minutes when games are finished.
granted we havent been finishing games but the fact remains that even had we been finishing teams off he isnt even making the bench to be in that position.
we curretnly have carrick, giggs and fletcher as central midfielders yet pogba still doesnt make the bench......i understand him asking why not???? i cant beleive you can appreciate that
Yes there is, all the time. Do you see the stories that come out about our players? Vidic and Evra have both left the club about 900 times in the last two seasons. Nani, Valencia, Park, Giggs, Rooney, Scholes, Berbatov, Carrick, Gibson etc I can find you a number of articles that say they want to leave or will be leaving. All of them bullshit.
If you are a kid, sitting at United's bench, watching some our performances, even if they were poor, I'd be ecstatic that I'm there and have the chance. He has potential, it doesn't mean he is currently a super-star or playable anywhere and anytime.
Why not indeed.
And what makes you think they won't be given the chance? They will, just have to be patient and trust a manager who has tons of experience when it comes to, well, anything - and bringing youth through is part of that. The two aren't even 19 yet. Fletcher wasn't playing regularly at 19.
I think what we can deduce from this discussion is that if you haven't played in the Champion's League by the time you're 20, then you're not making it at United.
Well, first off I don't believe the article until I see something more concrete or confirmed, so I'm not about to start passionately arguing on behalf of Pogba, when I don't know if he even feels this way.
I'd say go back and re-read Fergie's comments on introducing young players.
you only get experiance by playing......fabio had previous experiance because he was given it. pogba hasnt and isnt being given it.
you cant say...."oh he cant play this game because he hasnt got experience otherwise he'l never et the experience.
all im saying is it cant hurt to name him on the bench. if we are out of sight give him 20 minutes.
feck me if bebe is ready than pogba is
I'd leave that judgement about whether someone is ready in the hands of Sir Alex. He should know, what with those 25 years of experience. I'm sure Ferguson isn't deliberately holding Pogba back. Nor do he reckon he's as good a player as Fletcher is, as opposed to the insane drivel you're on about. If he did, Pogba would be starting regularly, and regarded as the finest young midfielder since Fabregas broke through.
The thing you're seemingly ignoring is it can hurt. It doesn't matter if it's 20 games or 20 minutes if they're played too early it can damage/stall/ruin their development.
Why is it so difficult to accept that some players mature earlier than others, thus get their chances earlier, and that Pogba might just be one of those players that hasn't matured to the appropriate level yet?
Is it May already?
Did Rooney set a precedence?
I don't think anyone knows if there is any truth to these rumours but it doesn't matter until something factual is confirmed by the club these rumours have done their job and could unsettle a player.
I don't think anyone knows if there is any truth to these rumours but it doesn't matter until something factual is confirmed by the club these rumours have done their job and could unsettle a player.
Nobody is doubting fergies judgement.
If fergie is saying that pogba isnt ready then pogba isnt ready.
But if he's considering going else where because he isnt getting a look in then maybe we can look at "rushing" him along.
I keep repeating this but it can do no harm at all to name him on the bench. To have him involved. To make him feel wanted. Should we be in a position where the game is over we could give him 20 minutes in a 451 so he'd be protected. He could get a touch on the ball, he could get his head up and make a few passes with no pressure. Nothing would be lossed, we win the game…….and important first teamer gets a 20 minute rest, pogba comes off the field knowing what its like to win at old trafford, he feels wanted. He feels part of the squad. He's a united first teamer and would probs sign a 10 year contract if its put infront of him. You never know……he might do alright. Carrick, anderson, fletcher might think….fecking hell……this lads a player……bit of competition here now.
Alternativeley……..lets say it doesn’t happen for him. He comes on and does a bebe. It’s a reality check for him. You sit him down Monday morning and say "look paul forget about Saturday. Couple of things you ned to work on but your at the right club" he signs a deal….gets his head down and improve and fulfills his potential.
If he goes on……looks like a rabbit caught in head lights……has a mare and cant recover then perhaps he isnt a united player.
What ever the outcome come of giving him a run it is my personal opinion a better bet then loosing a potential star to our biggest rivals simply because he wasn’t getting a look in.
If fergie is saying that pogba isnt ready then pogba isnt ready.
But if he's considering going else where because he isnt getting a look in then maybe we can look at "rushing" him along.
I keep repeating this but it can do no harm at all to name him on the bench. To have him involved. To make him feel wanted. Should we be in a position where the game is over we could give him 20 minutes in a 451 so he'd be protected. He could get a touch on the ball, he could get his head up and make a few passes with no pressure. Nothing would be lossed, we win the game…….and important first teamer gets a 20 minute rest, pogba comes off the field knowing what its like to win at old trafford, he feels wanted. He feels part of the squad. He's a united first teamer and would probs sign a 10 year contract if its put infront of him. You never know……he might do alright. Carrick, anderson, fletcher might think….fecking hell……this lads a player……bit of competition here now.
Alternativeley……..lets say it doesn’t happen for him. He comes on and does a bebe. It’s a reality check for him. You sit him down Monday morning and say "look paul forget about Saturday. Couple of things you ned to work on but your at the right club" he signs a deal….gets his head down and improve and fulfills his potential.
If he goes on……looks like a rabbit caught in head lights……has a mare and cant recover then perhaps he isnt a united player.
What ever the outcome come of giving him a run it is my personal opinion a better bet then loosing a potential star to our biggest rivals simply because he wasn’t getting a look in.
lol you make it sound like he was experienced when he wasn't. Two of those seasons for the most part was reserve team football. Prior experience in the competition? That just means a game here and there. Training? Morrison/pogba train with the first team....form of his life? Oh I see so brown and o'shea weren't? or maybe their experience ..their VAST...experience counted for feck all? silly
You can play in prior games in Europe, the pinnacle is still the final. Experience or mentality is still vastly important. It goes to show you CAN play talented kids if they have the right attitude/temperament and you have experience in the side to help.
He's barely 19. Plenty of time yet for him to feature. He seems good, but from his two appearances so far with the first team, I can see why SAF is holding him back a little.
No, he really isnt.
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