You are right, I used the wrong word but the point was that no youngster with plenty of advisers about is going to ignore the possibility that one injury might end his career. If he has the opportunity to mass up any kind of money now with a decent contract, he is going to take it. A move to a big club will always come if he performs.
Paul Pogba
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Its seems that we're struggling to sign/keep players these days. We werent able to lure Sneijder and Nasri in, we had problems with Rooney, Morrison had left and now Pogba. We'll better hope that the likes of Scholes and Giggs can keep on playing for a long long time, because we'll need that.
Players see football as a job and salaries are dictated by the market whether we like it or not. No one called a certain Irish man mercenary when he threatened to leave the club to go to Italy on free unless he's given 100 grand a week.
Now the argument here is simple. Are we surrounded by a bunch of cnuts or is it more the case that our wage structure is not as competitive as we think? We claim to be the biggest club in the world and yet we're losing promising kids and we're playing former retired players and defenders in midfield.
We didn't try to lure Sneijder, Nasri was all but agreed to join us then tried to play hardball for more money as an offer from city came in so we told him to feck off. I also don't want us paying over the odds for kids even the ones we develop. If we give in to them we set a precedent, and they can be replaced with kids who will be grateful at given the chance to play for one of the largest clubs in the world.
I understand where Ekeke is coming from. No one likes to lose players like this. I just maintain the fact that we have a model for success and we shouldn't deviate from it if some players dont want to comply or dont want to wait.
I agree man. I dont want to lose Pogba but if this is going to be a recurring problem then I'd rather just let him leave. The key in what you said is talented. That doesn't take into account his attitude nor his application to the game. You can have all the skills in the world but if you dont apply yourself properly, how are you going to put yourself in a position to succeed? That's not saying if he goes elsewhere he wont succeed.
I just think Pogba needs to see the value in waiting. I think Rio (based on what we've heard) is trying to get him to see that. For Rio, it was a lot easier seeing the value in biding your time based on all the initiation and little chores he had to do when he was at West Ham. You wont see any of youngsters cleaning the senior players' boots nowadays. Nonetheless, there was value in doing something like that which I think played a factor in Rio appreciating the wait and eventually breaking through even more.
If someone just gives you a car versus you working your ass off and then earning the money to buy yourself a car, in which situation are you more likely to take care of the car? That's my point really. Is it really that bad being on the brink of breaking into the first team at the age of 18 and having to wait just that bit longer to get some more game time?
Said Irishman had already proven his worth to the club and was our captain, said teenagers have had a whole lot of development work and training from us which will gurantee they will be good enough to become millionaires very early in life. When it's obvious we hold them in high regard then they will be very rich indeed. If all they are after is being rich now then their minds are not in the right place and that one quality we create in players that others don't, the desire to never give up and always be hungry for success, is not there, the hunger for money is.
It seems at the moment we struggle to attract or keep players for some reason. A good run in Europe this and next season and maybe a big name signing could help this. Fail on both these things next season and it will be even more difficult.
It's a risk playing Pogba, but it's a risk not playing him too. I can't help thinking the balance has been too far in not playing him.
It's a risk playing Pogba, but it's a risk not playing him too. I can't help thinking the balance has been too far in not playing him.
We did try to lure Sneijder in however You've got a point. Stating that there are times when wage structures need to be updated. Keane rang the alarm bell a couple of years ago, we gave in, a precedent was set and honors kept on flowing. Now as i said before, either we're surrounded by cnuts or else we've got a problem.
Exactly, there's always another player that you can get instead or some way round. As for sneijder as you said we weren't seriously in for him and city can have nasri and his giant wages. He's hardly covered himself in glory this season. At the end of the day city have invested all the money they have, have spent all the money that have and even with all out injuries they're only two points clear atm. Football has already given into players and agents so much at some point you have to draw a line.
We soundd him out, he wanted stupid money, Ferguson saw Cleverley and thought, feck that. Now I do agree every so often we need to update our wage structure, (we did recently with Rooney) but thats only at the top end. Youth our structure is brilliant. We pay them a constantly developing contract that once they prove their worth to the first teamgets renegotiated straight away.
Its a job for them gambit. If you're offered a bigger salary for a job somewhere else wouldn't you consider it? I would.
He also mentioned Pogba and Morrison.
Everyone wants stupid money these days...and yet, you wont here Barca or Real complaining about that and no one is resorting to former retired players and defenders to sort their weak midfield.
Not really. It's just being overemphasized because of the types of players we're losing. Morrison and Pogba are both very talented players. If a player not as talented leaves over similar circumstances, you think anyone really gives a feck?
I said it in an earlier post, we have a model of success that we're not willing to deviate from and sometimes that leads to things not working out between the respective parties. However, at the end of the day, we've still been relatively successful so it's not really all that bad. Gambit already summarized the Nasri situation pretty well and with Sneijder, although it was close, we weren't budging either. We're still doing fine now even though we haven't purchased either of them.
It seems like the situation we're in now is this:
Do you want to play for Manchester United?
'Yes, but if I can get x,y and z!'
versus
Do you want to play for Manchester United?
'Yes!!!'
Obviously that's generalized but that's what it seems like sometimes.
No, I turned one down last week. I like being self employed and love my work. Difference is though if someone offered me the kind of money that Pogba will have been offered, when 18, whilst doing what I love, safe in the knowledge that if I keep performing the way I do that the wage will increase from a few thousand a week to 10's of thousands, to 100's of thousands within a well thought structured process that takes 8 years, at the largest company in the world who's employess are treated like gods amongst men, the world over, I would try to get anyone who offered me anything arrested for idiocy.
Im sure that there will be plenty of players who'd rather go to cold Manchester on a lesser salary then to Barcelona
And what makes you think that we're the only club with a good youth academy and faith in kids? Pogba was given bits and pieces in meanigless games. Others may give him more games.
The football world doesn't rotate around Manchester United.
I'm not necessarily getting into the wages aspect of the issue. For me, that's pretty much self-explanatory with the emergence of agents. I'm talking about the demands besides one's salary.
Madrid have been in dispute with certain first teamers over salary, including Sergio Ramos.
Barca have been playing hardball with Abidal.
Happens everywhere.
Pogba has no track record to justify exorbitant demands. He needs to realise where he is and prove himself. Riches, monetary and footballing, will flow for him if he stays here. If he sees his future at another club - feck him. We ought to be offering a deal that reflects his stature and if he's stupid enough not to accept, that's his prerogative.
Agents are ruining the game but they are there to stay. Its a bitch but we'll have to adapt to them as much as we had to adapt having millions of debt on our back
And yet you wont find Barca/Real getting players out of retirement and playing defenders in midfield because time and time again they failed to find a quality midfielder on value and must therefore rely on kids to sort CM out wouldn't they? Agents are bitches expecially if they sense some kind of leverage
At the end of the day this is just business. We cant really play the moral card here. I mean there aren't many big clubs who are owned by business men who know nothing about football and who had plunged us into a mountain of debt in a bid of getting the biggest 'brand name' in football.
We've lost one reserve player, and Scholes is one of the best midfielders in world football. You sound like a hack you exaggerate so much.
Scholes asked to come out of retirement, a request we acquiesced to given his ability - I'd say he's done nothing but enhance us since returning. In fact, I'll put it out there that given he knows the club inside out and that he'll have required no acclimatisation whatsoever, he was the perfect January signing.
Not sure why you keep using Real Madrid as some sort of footballing paragon of virtue, given they've won nothing in relation to us over a five year period.
In fact, bar Barcelona, who are a special case, no one has done better than us.
Let's stop painting the potential loss of an unproven young player as a harbinger of impending doom. It's a silly kid who's had his head turned by agents and money.
It'll be his loss and we'll continue to be monumental.
We're losing one of the most promising midfielders in Europe, we're failing to attract quality players in CM and our best 2 midfielders are over 36yrs if age. I remember guys (me including) laughing at AC Milan for sticking to old players. We're not laughing anymore
As I said either we're surrounded by a bunch of cnuts or else our wage structure need to become more flexible.
He he he
We're doooooomed I tell you! Dooooooooooooooooooomed! We've only got the same problems as every other club has; do you think Madrid and Barcelona just give players whatever they want, no bluff or negotiation? Bollocks. City and Chelsea are struggling with wage-bills,why should United be any different?
Then why the feck do they join us, they join us for the simple facgt we're Manchester United. I don't buy this it's just a job bull. It's not, they're not doing it out of the need of being poor, they are doing it as it will allow them to get rich and have an incredible life. Their were other clubs in for Pogba when we got him, he could have just as easily joined them and would more than likely be playig more first team footbllfor them. There's a reason they join us and we need to sort out their mindset more when they first join us. The football world doesn't revolve around us, but there are not many peaks as high as us.
We've only got the same problems as almost every other club has; do you think Madrid and Barcelona just give players whatever they want, no bluff or negotiation? Bollocks. City and Chelsea are struggling with wage-bills,why should United be any different?
Have I said that?
However the fact that we're failing to convince quality midfielders sign with us + we seem set of losing our two most talented players makes you think. Are we're surrounded by a bunch of cnuts or is it more the case that our wage structure need to become more flexible?
I guess that would convince Messi to come to OT...
Well it hasn't convinced Rooney/Nani to go to Barcelona, so what's your point?
Do they need them?
But they signed Fabregas and Sanchez FFS, transfers are all that matters!!!
Do you think central midfielders are more picky than players in other positions?
You're just a poor Jewish transfer muppet kid, you cock.
We've got a good youth academy and we probably pay better then Le Haivre. However we're not alone. There's life after United just ask Platt and Pique.
I'm glad we didn't get Sneijder or Nasri as neither this year have been as good as Cleverley for me, nor do I think they will get any better where as Cleverley has the world at his feet. Who else could we sign? As you say the world doesn't revolve around us but those who sign for us have to think like that, we want them to think we are not a stepping stone, we are the zenith. If you desire to play for others then go play for others. If you want to be paid a lot of money, here is a wage that will make Syou richer than your were, what someone else has offered more, tohan go to them then. Who was available for us to buy?
And here we're reverting to insults. Pretty mature isnt it.
I really hate devilish for making me agree with cider.
Yeah, we're not laughing. We didn't sign a player. We didn't make a transfer. So what if we're the champions of England with a good chances of defending the title. We must sign someone. Buy buy buy.
You're so fecking annoying it's impossible to discuss with you without throwing one or two. You're the problem and the reason, not the people who do that.
You're talking shit. Messi isn't at Barcelona because he prefers their wage structure to ours.
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