Paul Pogba

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Pogue Mahone said:
Absolutely not.

First of all, we're not "struggling". We've got fantastic depth in our squad and are having a decent season, despite a ridiculous amount of injuries.

Arsenal are struggling. Chelsea are struggling. We're not struggling.

Second - and more importantly - our wage bill increased by more than 17% in the last quarter. The inflationary effect of sugar daddies paying stupendous salaries has made players wages almost unsustainable. We need to cut our wage bill, not increase it. Now is the worst possible tome to "tweak our wage structure"
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We're struggling in terms of attracting the quality CM midfield we need + keeping our most talented young players.
 
I disagree. We've always occasionally missed out on players we wanted to sign. Essien, Robben, Ronaldinho etc. In recent times we've also signed players that other clubs wanted to sign e.g. Smalling and Jones. Ditto with youngsters. Rossi and Pique left us several years ago. That's the risk with foreign kids. They don't have the same ties to the club as local lads. As for Morrison, it was a case of us not wanting him, rather than the other way round. We're hardly "struggling". Business as usual, I'd say.

Why did you ignore the rest of my post anyway?
 
Donkey's Ears said:
It seems to me that clubs like us (doing well, needing to pay established players a competitive wage) are always going to be vulnerable in terms of youth players. A club take Juventus is in a much better position to take a gamble on someone like Pogba because of where they are. It is not a bad strategy given their lack of a sugar daddy to start trying to buy up hugely talented players whose value might be underestimated because they haven't played that much and because their current club can't make the best use of them right now (think of Barca and Fabregas and their problems last summer with Thiago) . It's a gamble but you have to take those kind of gambles to improve rapidly without paying huge sums for established players. It's almost like an option. The actual downside for Juventus is quite small but the upside is very large.
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Which is the reason why I've said that if we truly believe in Pogba then we should play him more. We're not being able to attract the quality midfielders that we need which makes us relying more on our kids. Now, unless we don't want clubs like Juventus (good youth academy + ability to play kids more then we do) to start sniffing around our kids then we'll have to give them more playing time.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I disagree. We've always occasionally missed out on players we wanted to sign. Essien, Robben, Ronaldinho etc. In recent times we've also signed players that other clubs wanted to sign e.g. Smalling and Jones. We're hardly "struggling". Business as usual, I'd say.

Why did you ignore the rest of my post anyway?
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We missed on certain players but we always managed to get the players we needed. Nowadays we're only geared in bringing players that will give us a return to our investment. Our central midfield is weak and yet we've signed no one, the reason being....there's no value in the market.

Whether you like it or not I am worried. CM is a position we need to address but have failed to do it for quite some time. Giggs/Scholes are growing old, Carrick is good but he's nowhere near to his predecessors, Fletch's injury is concerning. Clev is good but its still early days for him. The truth is that we're struggling in bringing in the CM we need and we may end up losing our most promising midfielder. I apologize for not oozing happiness and optimisim about that.

And I wanted to clear things up. The last thing I would want is people saying that I've said that we're shit. We're struggling in terms of bringing in the player we need and keeping our most talented kids. That's all.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I disagree. We've always occasionally missed out on players we wanted to sign. Essien, Robben, Ronaldinho etc. In recent times we've also signed players that other clubs wanted to sign e.g. Smalling and Jones. Ditto with youngsters. Rossi and Pique left us several years ago. That's the risk with foreign kids. They don't have the same ties to the club as local lads. As for Morrison, it was a case of us not wanting him, rather than the other way round. We're hardly "struggling". Business as usual, I'd say.
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Lets not forget the Valencia transfer, he was being pursued by Real Madrid but decided to choose us over them.


EDIT -
devilish said:
Whether you like it or not I am worried. CM is a position we need to address but have failed to do it for quite some time. Giggs/Scholes are growing old, Carrick is good but he's nowhere near to his predecessors, Fletch's injury is concerning, Clev is good but its too early to judge him. If we cant get the midfielder we need and we cant keep our most promising midfielder then yes we're in trouble.
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For how long have you felt we've needed to address the CM position?
 
devilish said:
We missed on certain players but we always managed to get the players we needed. Nowadays we're only geared in bringing players that will give us a return to our investment. Our central midfield is weak and yet we've signed no one, the reason being....there's no value in the market.

Whether you like it or not I am worried. CM is a position we need to address but have failed to do it for quite some time. Clev is good

And I wanted to clear things up. The last thing I would want is people saying that I've said that we're shit. We're struggling in terms of bringing in the player we need and keeping our most talented kids. That's all.
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I get where you're coming from but I still think it's off. SAF is really being nitpicky about who to bring in for a CM spot. As fans, it seems like we just SAF to get someone but he seems to feel unless that player can bring us up another level, then we're fine. Thing is Giggsy and Scholesy will be done for sure within the next couple of years which is why I expect to see some movement from us in terms of the transfer market this coming summer.

Also, exclude Morrison from that last statement. He's a special case. Pogba on the other hand, I'm not really sure but I hope this doesnt become a tendency to think we're a selling club. I think we'll be okay but we've got to look at things more objectively. No player is going to hold the club to ransom. The youngsters need to see that and either feck off or shut up.
 
I don't agree, what palyer is it who we're meant to get into CM, we've addressed it with Cleverley. Who else are we meant to get in?
 
People need to differentiate between attract, afford and need.
 
devilish said:
We're struggling in terms of attracting the quality CM midfield we need + keeping our most talented young players.
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I admit Pique was an annoying case, but looking back I can see why he wanted to leave, he had so much class in front of him. Rossi is an entirely different matter, if only he waited another 3-4 weeks he would've basically been first choice with so many players injured or suspended IIRC (and Ole retiring). The third case is Morrison, a player we clearly did everything to get his head down and take advantage of his talent, but the idiot didn't turn up for training sessions, so what's the point of keeping him?
Anybody else over the last few years left on our terms, because we didn't want to keep them or they simply weren't good enough.

Regarding a CM signing I think it's safe to say we first need to offload players before we can bring someone in. This is strongly underlined by the fact we can only register 25 players (which by using basic maths means Owen, PIG, Amos, De Laet and someone else are definitely on their way out) for next season and our wage bill soaring to unexpected heights.
Let's say we want to sign a player like Javi Garcia we might be looking for another 100k a week on top of a £20m+ transfer fee. This is an awful lot of money in wage terms.
 
Anduin said:
I admit Pique was an annoying case, but looking back I can see why he wanted to leave, he had so much class in front of him. Rossi is an entirely different matter, if only he waited another 3-4 weeks he would've basically been first choice with so many players injured or suspended IIRC (and Ole retiring). The third case is Morrison, a player we clearly did everything to get his head down and take advantage of his talent, but the idiot didn't turn up for training sessions, so what's the point of keeping him?
Anybody else over the last few years left on our terms, because we didn't want to keep them or they simply weren't good enough.

Regarding a CM signing I think it's safe to say we first need to offload players before we can bring someone in. This is strongly underlined by the fact we can only register 25 players (which by using basic maths means Owen, PIG, Amos, De Laet and someone else are definitely on their way out) for next season and our wage bill soaring to unexpected heights.
Let's say we want to sign a player like Javi Garcia we might be looking for another 100k a week on top of a £20m+ transfer fee. This is an awful lot of money in wage terms.
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Why would Amos be out? We need 3 keepers. Two plus another in case of an injury.
 
gambit28 said:
I don't agree, what palyer is it who we're meant to get into CM, we've addressed it with Cleverley. Who else are we meant to get in?
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I agree 100%.

We didn't need to sign a midfielder, we just needed a midfielder.

If Cleverley wasn't on our books and cost us £20m last summer, people would be describing it as fantastic business and exactly what we needed.

The problem is that Transfers are like heroin to some fans and if they don't get their fix, they can think of nothing else.
 
gambit28 said:
I don't agree, what palyer is it who we're meant to get into CM, we've addressed it with Cleverley. Who else are we meant to get in?
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Clev showed some good stuff before and after coming from a relatively long term injury. However is it enough to say that CM is sorted? Fletch may need to be replaced, Giggs/Scholes wont last too long and Ando...well the least said about Ando the better.

Not to forget Clev's injury rate. He suffered relatively serious injuroes with Leicester, Watford and us.
 
Zarlak said:
Why would Amos be out? We need 3 keepers. Two plus another in case of an injury.
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Amos was born in 1990 and needs registering next season. Looking at squad limit I'd say it's fairly certain we'll promote Johnstone to being third-choice and loan Amos out. I'm not being unfair on Amos' ability, in fact I rate him a lot, but unfortunately we can't afford to keep him under this circumstances (in case we don't offload to many squad players).
 
Craig Norwood @CraigNorwood
Paul Pogba not on the team bus for tonight's game against Ajax #MUFC
 
devilish said:
Clev showed some good stuff before and after coming from a relatively long term injury. However is it enough to say that CM is sorted? Fletch may need to be replaced, Giggs/Scholes wont last too long and Ando...well the least said about Ando the better.
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Yes but all of this happened after the summer, Anderson as well was looking mint, we'd brought in Young as well who could do a job in the centre of attack, add to that then the idea of Pogba and Morrsion coming through and things looked very rosy indeed, whilst Giggs gave the experience. Fletcher may need to be replaced now but we thought he was returning too. Carrick Ferguson said has a great period from November onwards and boy was he right. So who is we should have got, who is it we struggled to attract?
 
gambit28 said:
Yes but all of this happened after the summer, Anderson as well was looking mint, we'd brought in Young as well who could do a job in the centre of attack, add to that then the idea of Pogba and Morrsion coming through and things looked very rosy indeed, whilst Giggs gave the experience. Fletcher may need to be replaced now but we thought he was returning too. Carrick Ferguson said has a great period from November onwards and boy was he right. So who is we should have got, who is it we struggled to attract?
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Ah ok I thought you're tallking about our present status. My apologies.
 
devilish said:
Ah ok I thought you're tallking about our present status. My apologies.
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But who do you suggest now? I mean if we're talking present we're still loking fairly goo, Cleverley is coming back, Anderson is returning, Scholes and Carrick are playing incredibly well, we have Giggs. In fact the only things thats changed is that our 2 brightest pupils are gone/going, and Fletcher needs a replacement. I thoroughly believe we can replace them with equally bright prospects from around the world.
 
Young Reds to face Ajax

Sir Alex Ferguson will treat Thursday night's Europa League clash against Ajax as an opportunity to hand game time to those players who most need it... and many of them are relative newcomers to European football.

The Reds hold a 2-0 lead going into the second leg, and although the Manchester United manager isn't expecting an easy match against the Dutch champions, he took the unusual step of revealing a large chunk of his team more than 24 hours before kick-off.

"There are a lot of players who need a game, players who haven't been playing lately," Sir Alex said at his pre-match press conference. "Nani, Ashley Young, Javier Hernandez, Tom Cleverley, Chris Smalling, Phil Jones... they all need games and they'll all play tomorrow in whatever position I decide to play them. Then we'll hope to get a sprinkling of experience amongst it."

The boss also admitted there's a chance Paul Pogba could gain some valuable first-team experience. The 18-year-old Frenchman has yet to start a senior match for United, but has been involved in a number of matchday squads and was an unused substitute in Amsterdam last Thursday.

"It's possible," Sir Alex conceded, "but it depends on the rest of the team."
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In bold.
 
Never been so over a player before. Quite honestly the pantomine that has followed this kid around is a joke. How much of a nightmare is he going to be if fulfills his potential? He will be courting the attention of Madrid worse that Ronny.
 
gza the genius said:
Why would he have not played with the reserves the other day if Sir Alex was going to completely leave him out today? That just wouldn't make any sense.
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Yes it does. Fergie can do what he likes with him.
 
Craig Norwood @CraigNorwood
Apologise I forgot Chris Smalling from those travelling players, SAF was asked will Pogba start in which he answered "not starting tonight"
 
Well the possibilities are:
i) He has picked up an injury in training and has been left out
ii) His agent showed him Juve's contract and Fergie has decided that he will not match it and decided to play players who want to be at the club.

I suspect it is option ii). Too bad, really. Young players do not often get chances in Italian teams, even Ballotelli is playing in the Prem. Lets hope Pogba does see sense or a spell in their reserves awaits him. He will be more richer in the short term but he could have made a lot more in a few more years staying at United.
 
gambit28 said:
So. He's a kid and he's done nothing to guarantee a spot even on the bench.
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He's not guaranteed anything. However, it is a game at OT, we are resting some of our players, and we are 0-2 up from the first leg. Along with that, he is one of our most promising youngsters. For me, it's the ideal time for him to be on the bench.
 
From a newbie called unplayable.
Gazzetta - Ore decisive per Pogba. Juve ad un passo... - Tutto Juve
Official - Hours decisive Pogba. Juve one step ...
Juventus is running out for Pogba. According to "La Gazzetta dello Sport", hours are crucial for the future of the eighteen year old French midfielder out of contract with Manchester United. The Bianconeri would be one step closer to closing the deal. There is only the last hurdle to overcome: Marotta and Guild, with the player's agent Mino Raiola media, must reject the final assault of United, who is trying to convince the boy to renew the contract.
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From this morning.
 
greater wall said:
Well the possibilities are:
i) He has picked up an injury in training and has been left out
ii) His agent showed him Juve's contract and Fergie has decided that he will not match it and decided to play players who want to be at the club.

I suspect it is option ii). Too bad, really. Young players do not often get chances in Italian teams, even Ballotelli is playing in the Prem. Lets hope Pogba does see sense or a spell in their reserves awaits him. He will be more richer in the short term but he could have made a lot more in a few more years staying at United.
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ii) makes sense. Whether it's a kick in the arse of we've written him off remains to be seen. Either way, feck him. His spot on the bench can go to someone who is more committed to the club.
 
I'd guess we are looking at something like this:

De Gea
Rafael, Ferdinand, Evans, Evra

Nani, Tom Cleverley, Phil Jones, Park

........Ashley Young
Javier Hernandez
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That's literally every player that needs "some game time" according to Ferguson while on the bench I expect to see:

Amos, Fabio, Smalling, Scholes, Giggs, Berbatov, Welbeck

Or something like that. Lots of players who need 90, 60 or 30 minutes for whatever reason. Cleverley and Jones need 90 minutes for match fitness while players like Scholes and Giggs need 30 minutes or so to be sharp for the weekend after 10+ days without a game. Then there is Berbatov who needs minutes ect ect.

You can see why Ferguson feels he can't find space for Pogba as it's a key point of our season coming up and players need to be kept in the right condition for it.
 
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