In my opinion it is. I'm genuinely interested in your opinion as to why it isn't. If you don't mind to share it with me
Paul Pogba
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I honestly don't remember a time before Morrison, Pogba, Freyers and Berbatov that this has happened. (P.C.M.I.I.W.) That is why to me it smacks of a change of policy. I've been used to United offering new deals to players with 18 months left save for the oldies.
Because a policy has been in place for years doesn't make it right
We bent over backwards for Rooney last season when he questioned our ambition and insulted his teammates and fergie effectively
If a player is special we should be more flexible with contract negotiation
We bent over backwards for Rooney last season when he questioned our ambition and insulted his teammates and fergie effectively
If a player is special we should be more flexible with contract negotiation
All this that we have a new contract negotiation is really pissing me off. Smalling, Clev and Hernandez in the last few months have been given new deals much before they are left eighteen months on their contract.
It's more to do with the principle of it all. If we overpaid Pogba by 10k a week, say 30k then this will have a knock on effect to the rest of the squad. The likes of Smalling, Jones and De Gea who are actually doing something for the first team may feel they are owed more if this young reserve player can command that sort of wage.
Yep and every other young player that we think has potential would want to command such a wage. It's one thing doing it for your very best player and another entirely to do it for a player at the bottom. As I said before with this policy we might lose a few youngsters but we won't lose everyone, I'm happy to take that hit.
Andy mitten, another who knows what he's talking about:
RAVEL MORRISON and Paul Pogba were Manchester United’s most promising youngsters at the start of this year. The former was sold to West Ham after Sir Alex Ferguson ran out of patience with his continued off-the field indiscretions. The latter, despite being considered as the next Patrick Vieira by first-team players who train with him, is likely to leave soon.
United don’t want Pogba, out of contract in June, to go and have offered him a deal worth £20,000 a week. It would make him the top paid player outside the regular first teamers on a salary far in excess of his usual team mates in the reserves. United’s locally reared graduates have long been irritated that imported youngsters earn far more. To stress the point, Mancunian defender Ezekiel Fryers, has a contract offer worth about a fifth of Pogba’s. Unlike Pogba, who has just four substitute appearances to his name for the first team, Fryers has actually started two games for United. Both turned down their offers and were given ultimatums last week. Fryers is likely to sign.
Despite Pogba’s family allegedly being of the opinion that United is the best place for him, Pogba and his outspoken Italian agent Mino Railoa are not satisfied with the offer. They’ve been distracted by the fluttering eyelashes of several European clubs who look at Pogba’s impeccable record captaining France at four different age groups, the cachet of being a Clairefontaine graduate and a United player since 2009 after joining in controversial circumstances from Le Harve.
While Sir Alex Ferguson recognises Pogba’s talent, he must look at the bigger picture. Ferguson asked Rio Ferdinand to get inside Pogba’s head and convince him that United is where he should stay, but the 18-year-old Parisian isn’t heeding the advice.
Ferdinand explained that United can offer what a supremely talented youngster needs and that he will get more first-team appearances when Ferguson, who is usually a shrewd judge of young players, thinks he’s ready.
It’s not just about money, though.
Like every player, Pogba is impatient to play, yet he simply has to bide his time. Gerard Pique and Giuseppe Rossi, two former United players who arrived as highly-hyped youngsters and only fulfilled the promise after being given their chance away from Old Trafford, might sympathise with Pogba. After years of waiting, they felt they would have better chance of first team football elsewhere and they were right.
Pogba, whose brother Mathias is at Wrexham, has hardly begun his wait, yet Ferguson finally lost patience with him last week when the contract offer remained unsigned. Pogba wasn’t included in the squad for the Ajax home game on Thursday and on Friday, he was told to train alone.
Ferguson likes players to trust him about their career. Even if they don’t make it at United, he usually helps line up a good club for them – as the countless former United players in the championship will testify.
I’ve spoken to plenty and almost all praise their former manager; not a given in the world of professional football.
Ferguson likes players to sign the contracts they are offered. From David Beckham signing a deal worth £9,000 a week without negotiation alongside his star struck father, to Tom Cleverley who was keen to sign, he expects players to appreciate what he considers to be the fair terms on offer from the club.
Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs continually signed new deals with the minimum of fuss.
They didn’t do too badly out of it – and scored both goals at Norwich on Sunday, Giggs in his 900th United game and Scholes in his 686th, football’s equivalent of the Rolling Stones with a combined age of 76.
Maybe they were more inclined to stay close to where they grew, up playing for the team they came to support.
Maybe Pogba’s loyalty is to himself and he’ll go and become an immediate star in the first team at Juventus, but in opting to leave a stable club with a proven track record of promoting its best youngsters, he’s adopting a risky strategy where a short-term gain could lead to a long-term loss.
l ANDY MITTEN – whose great uncle Charlie Mitten starred in Matt Busby’s first great side – has been the editor of Manchester United fanzine United We Stand since 1989 and is the author of 10 books. He has visited 85 countries, covering games from Israel to the Faroes, and is a regular contributor to Four Four Two magazine.
RAVEL MORRISON and Paul Pogba were Manchester United’s most promising youngsters at the start of this year. The former was sold to West Ham after Sir Alex Ferguson ran out of patience with his continued off-the field indiscretions. The latter, despite being considered as the next Patrick Vieira by first-team players who train with him, is likely to leave soon.
United don’t want Pogba, out of contract in June, to go and have offered him a deal worth £20,000 a week. It would make him the top paid player outside the regular first teamers on a salary far in excess of his usual team mates in the reserves. United’s locally reared graduates have long been irritated that imported youngsters earn far more. To stress the point, Mancunian defender Ezekiel Fryers, has a contract offer worth about a fifth of Pogba’s. Unlike Pogba, who has just four substitute appearances to his name for the first team, Fryers has actually started two games for United. Both turned down their offers and were given ultimatums last week. Fryers is likely to sign.
Despite Pogba’s family allegedly being of the opinion that United is the best place for him, Pogba and his outspoken Italian agent Mino Railoa are not satisfied with the offer. They’ve been distracted by the fluttering eyelashes of several European clubs who look at Pogba’s impeccable record captaining France at four different age groups, the cachet of being a Clairefontaine graduate and a United player since 2009 after joining in controversial circumstances from Le Harve.
While Sir Alex Ferguson recognises Pogba’s talent, he must look at the bigger picture. Ferguson asked Rio Ferdinand to get inside Pogba’s head and convince him that United is where he should stay, but the 18-year-old Parisian isn’t heeding the advice.
Ferdinand explained that United can offer what a supremely talented youngster needs and that he will get more first-team appearances when Ferguson, who is usually a shrewd judge of young players, thinks he’s ready.
It’s not just about money, though.
Like every player, Pogba is impatient to play, yet he simply has to bide his time. Gerard Pique and Giuseppe Rossi, two former United players who arrived as highly-hyped youngsters and only fulfilled the promise after being given their chance away from Old Trafford, might sympathise with Pogba. After years of waiting, they felt they would have better chance of first team football elsewhere and they were right.
Pogba, whose brother Mathias is at Wrexham, has hardly begun his wait, yet Ferguson finally lost patience with him last week when the contract offer remained unsigned. Pogba wasn’t included in the squad for the Ajax home game on Thursday and on Friday, he was told to train alone.
Ferguson likes players to trust him about their career. Even if they don’t make it at United, he usually helps line up a good club for them – as the countless former United players in the championship will testify.
I’ve spoken to plenty and almost all praise their former manager; not a given in the world of professional football.
Ferguson likes players to sign the contracts they are offered. From David Beckham signing a deal worth £9,000 a week without negotiation alongside his star struck father, to Tom Cleverley who was keen to sign, he expects players to appreciate what he considers to be the fair terms on offer from the club.
Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs continually signed new deals with the minimum of fuss.
They didn’t do too badly out of it – and scored both goals at Norwich on Sunday, Giggs in his 900th United game and Scholes in his 686th, football’s equivalent of the Rolling Stones with a combined age of 76.
Maybe they were more inclined to stay close to where they grew, up playing for the team they came to support.
Maybe Pogba’s loyalty is to himself and he’ll go and become an immediate star in the first team at Juventus, but in opting to leave a stable club with a proven track record of promoting its best youngsters, he’s adopting a risky strategy where a short-term gain could lead to a long-term loss.
l ANDY MITTEN – whose great uncle Charlie Mitten starred in Matt Busby’s first great side – has been the editor of Manchester United fanzine United We Stand since 1989 and is the author of 10 books. He has visited 85 countries, covering games from Israel to the Faroes, and is a regular contributor to Four Four Two magazine.
In my opinion it is. I'm genuinely interested in your opinion as to why it isn't. If you don't mind to share it with me
Okay how is moving from a second tier French club to one of the biggest clubs in the world the same as moving from one big club to another big club?
I mean no offense to Le Havre, but you have to leave those sort of clubs if you want to develop your game further and test yourself against the best by playing in big competitions. United and Juventus can offer all of that. How a club like Le Havre offer him that?
Seems like fergie has tried the nice uncle approach, and is now trying the tough love father tactic.
I just hope Pogba can see past the $$$ signs in his and riaolas eyes and see that staying at utd and being a star here will far outway anything he can get in italy
So by all accounts we've offered £20k pw and he wants £30k pw, surely there must be room for a compromise?
Fair enough. For me the reason I felt it similar though is he turned his back on extending his stay with a club that was developing him. If it happens to us, we can't complain too much since its been done before.
You do make a great point.
Its a shame his agent has dragged this all out in the open. Notice how we've got a similar situation with Freyers but its not getting half as much press attention. I assume he's not got a complete knob for an agent.
In fairness if we are offering fryers about 3 1/2 grand a week he's got every right to be pissed off.
If true, that can't be good for the morale of the other young players.
TBF Fryers, with all respect, doesn't have the same "next big superstar" profile that Pogba has, despite more 1st team appearances.
Mitten has only said there what we knew and what we are all thinking...well, everyone except Pogba. Pogba seems to be more concerned by the fact that he is in demand by however many clubs and that they will give him guarentees we won't, rather than being concerned about the history SAF has at bringing youngsters successfully into the team.
From what we are hearing it seems a scare tactic more than anything I feel. I think what is being missed here is that yes, he may be asking for £30k or £40k a week or whatever it may be, but what is he expecting to gain from this situation other than more money? Just because we pay him more does not mean we will play him more and I think Pogba doesn't realise this. SAF will know when he is ready and I don't for one second think he will be held to ransom like he seemingly is.
If he's the type of player who knows he is still going to be a bit-part player, and still going to sit on the bench or play for the reserves, yet wants an extra £20k a week to do so, then I don't think he is the type of player we want at United - no matter how talented.
I can understand Fryers frustration, youngsters at championship clubs get them sort of wages.
Pogba on the otherhand, who cares. I cant believe this thread is still here.
Pogba on the otherhand, who cares. I cant believe this thread is still here.
Are agent compensations not regulated in Europe?
AKA cannot take more than 7% of player's wages, cannot take more than 1% of wages in the case of early-termination, etc. etc.
AKA cannot take more than 7% of player's wages, cannot take more than 1% of wages in the case of early-termination, etc. etc.
exactly
so if he turns out to be a good player, so what?
Dont want a player at united who absolutely doesnt want to be here!
It's amazing how influenced they can be by the various hangers on they attract. I cant believe that young players think that playing under the guidance of SAF isnt the best thing for them. Track record, longevity, trophies... it's all there on a plate for talented young players.
Players like pique and rossi were correct in deciding to go elsewhere, but the writing was on the wall for them. Pique was 21/22 and had vidic ferdinand evans etc ahead of him, Rossi in a similar place.
Pogba has a great opportunity to contribute to a United side with a suprising dearth of midfielders - with Scholes and Giggs pushing 40 ;-)
Nope. I believe that agent contributions of around 20% are pretty standard and often higher, as in this case. If you think about it, we give pogba £20,000 a week, about 6k goes to raiola minus tax, another 7k goes to the taxman, he's left getting 7k a week. At juve he'd potentially be getting 20k+, although I have no idea of tax rates there.
Andy Mitten: Manchester United losing battle to keep Paul Pogba - Man Utd FC - Sport News - Daily Post North Wales
If he wants out bid him farewell. I find the situation stunning personally speaking. You look at someone like Cleverley who wasn´t offered a contract at 16 cos the club felt he was too small, has been on loan three times and had to wait to 22 for his chance and think to yourself how can Pogba at 18 having played for the first team be impatient? Its mad.
If he wants out bid him farewell. I find the situation stunning personally speaking. You look at someone like Cleverley who wasn´t offered a contract at 16 cos the club felt he was too small, has been on loan three times and had to wait to 22 for his chance and think to yourself how can Pogba at 18 having played for the first team be impatient? Its mad.
I said it when it came to light and I'll say it again now,
when Raiola became involved that was basically the end for him at United. We aren't going to break the wage structure for him.
when Raiola became involved that was basically the end for him at United. We aren't going to break the wage structure for him.
You can't really compare him with Cleverley. First of all, he isn't even English, he hasn't been at a club long enough to feel any real connection to it and he has an opportunity to sign for one of the best football clubs in the world at Juventus. It's all well saying that Cleverley did this and Tunnicliffe will do that when they've never been offered lucrative deals by teams like Juve. They didn't really have a choice, Pogba does and it's a tempting one to say the least.
Unfortunately I agree with you.
Its an absolute shame but the club is always ultimately more important and needs to hold firm on this issue.
Young players that do well at this club will always be rewarded. Just not when they decide to.
I'm all for what we're doing here but we will have to re-think our policy in a near future. We can't afford to buy superstars and we won't be able to produce any in not too distant future if we don't start paying them silly money because that's where football is heading. Teams will start paying wrong money to youth because that's the only way to get hold of a potential superstar these days unless you have hundreds of millions to spend which not many do.
Give him the 40 large, tie him up on a 5 year contract with a £50M release clause (all the Continental clubs do that) then no further contract discussion for at least 3 1/2 years.
If he turns out to be something special, we'll actually have him on the cheap. If he insists on leaving we make a huge profit to spend on an equivalent.
If he turns out shit, we'll can sell him on the cheap & get back what we overspent on wages on the transfer.
If he becomes a regular next season, we'll raising his wages to that or above that level anyway. What we're arguing over is fecking £1M, its peanuts in football.
What he gets paid is nothing to do with the other players anyway.
I haven't seen Nani or Vidic crying about how much Rooney gets paid, when their contract come up for renewal, they know they'll be well rewarded.
If he turns out to be something special, we'll actually have him on the cheap. If he insists on leaving we make a huge profit to spend on an equivalent.
If he turns out shit, we'll can sell him on the cheap & get back what we overspent on wages on the transfer.
If he becomes a regular next season, we'll raising his wages to that or above that level anyway. What we're arguing over is fecking £1M, its peanuts in football.
What he gets paid is nothing to do with the other players anyway.
I haven't seen Nani or Vidic crying about how much Rooney gets paid, when their contract come up for renewal, they know they'll be well rewarded.
Shite idea
feck the greedy scrote!
Also Rio isn't the best person to convince a young player it's not all about money.
Also Rio isn't the best person to convince a young player it's not all about money.
Did you read any further?
If he wants to leave for more first-team opportunities, fair enough.
If it's really about that extra 10k then feck off. Anyone who isn't satisfied with earning 20k a week at the age of 18 (or at any age, really) won't get any sympathy from me. I don't earn that amount in a year. Seriously, footballers and their agents need to wake up.
If it's really about that extra 10k then feck off. Anyone who isn't satisfied with earning 20k a week at the age of 18 (or at any age, really) won't get any sympathy from me. I don't earn that amount in a year. Seriously, footballers and their agents need to wake up.
yes. Its still a shite idea and thankfully wont happen .
So instead we will still need to spend £20M+ on a decent midfielder & pay them £100K /week in the summer.
Makes sound economic sense does that...
So instead we will still need to spend £20M+ on a decent midfielder & pay them £100K /week in the summer.
Makes sound economic sense does that...
I don't think some other 18-year-old barely ready for first-team football would cost that amount. And we need an established (at least 23 years old, playing in a moderately respectable league, preferably with a little CL experience) midfielder anyway, even though we all know we're not going to sign one.
EDIT: also, all the other young players who think they have some potential will probably start demanding unrealistic sums if we just give in to the stupid demands of an untested, unproven talent who looked good in the reserves.
Agree with this. Pogba might just being a bit too objective for our liking here. I personally think he'll be making a mistake by leaving, but at the same time I can understand why he might be swayed.
If this was going to be a one off and Pogba really is going to be a special talent, then I would think Man Utd would offer him this lucrative contract. However this will sadly start a trend with every young talent at the club (which it already looks like it has happened with Morrison, Fryers) and they will demand similar or even greater wages, especially when in connection to agents such as Mino Raiola.
So instead we will still need to spend £20M+ on a decent midfielder & pay them £100K /week in the summer.
Makes sound economic sense does that...
Not sure you're getting it here Colin. We both know the club wont bow to the alleged demands. Again thankfully.
We have plenty more promising youngsters, this would set a very dangerous precedent for the future.
Did you?! A £50m release clause is meaningless if he turns out to be shite: we're jsut stuck paying him 40k a week to not play for five years!
We will spend approx. £170m in wages this season and in doing so we're one of the top five spenders in the entire footballing world. We're already paying 'silly money', just not to an 18-fecking-yo who has done feck all for the club so far. If you work hard and earn your place, you'll get rewarded at United. It's all there for Pogba (even in the last year when Hernandez and Smalling got pay rises for their performances), if he wants to leave, so be it. We will cope.
Couldn't that just be because young players wanted to stay at United and didn't value the extra money they could possibly get elsewhere higher? You're just making the assumption that because there's some noise now means that it's a new thing, which is a big assumption to make.
Of the people you mention:
Morrison's length of the contract wasn't an issue at all. United didn't want to have him on contract for too long, as they didn't trust him. In the end we could've kept him if we wanted to, but decided it wasn't worth it anymore.
Fryers is mainly paper talk, isn't it? Morrison and Pogba was making noise about a switch, so the papers will do anything to add another United youngster to the list.
We had an option on Berbatov, didn't we? Which means he's still got over a year left on his contract. Not sure why you include him. Besides it's pretty obvious that he wants to stay, so why start negotiating earlier than needed?
I'm a bit surprised you didn't include Michael Owen and Owen Hargreaves in your list to make it longer. Would've been as pointless and some of the other names you included anyway.
So you think you know more about running a football club than United? The policy has obviously been working fine - and still does, apart from one player who's supposedly just after more money. As I said I don't think negotiating with Pogba earlier would've changed anything. If he's truly just after as much money as possible he'd just hold out and in the end we'd be down to the last few months anyway.
And that should show young players that money will come if they prove their worth - even if there's plenty of years left on their contract. Those players you mentioned got a new contract because their squad status changed and they deserved more money. Pogba is still only a reserve team player (although quite close to the first team - and closer yet if he signs a new contract). He isn't worth £40k per week now, and giving him that just because he might be worth it in a year or so doesn't really make much sense. He's already getting paid a very good sum each week because of his special talent, so I don't see any reason to stretch it any further.
Does take a lot of the interest out of watching the youths and reserves, doesn't it? On the other hand, it also heighten the respect for players like Giggs, Beckham and Scholes before, and Fletcher, Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley now. Really wanting to play for Man United, wanting to be part of a team more than solely wanting to shine your own light - is a 'skill' as important as technique, vision, speed or stamina. Which I think is part of Barcelonas success with La Masia. They focus very much on being a part of a society, more than on developing your personal skills.
Pogba is in a similar situation to the club.
Say for example he does not make it, or has a bad injury. At least if someone is offering better financial rewards he'd have more money to fall back on for the next 5 years.
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