Paul Pogba

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United policy used to be to begin and renew contracts when there was 2 years to go. Essentially the new contract would subsume the existing contract. This would mean the new contract kicking in early than if they wauted till the final year.

It's another Glazer dictat.
 
Can't believe two of our most promising players have left within 6 months. fecking unreal.

A year ago we all thought the team would be built around these two in years to come.
 
golden_blunder said:
agree with Pogue on this. You cant chuck long term contracts at everyone
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But personally I don't think you have too. By 18/19 they'll have an idea who could possibly make it but when you leave it down to one year you lose potentially millions . How much will we get if he leaves? It's not good business. I think when your in the public eye and have a year left on your contract, your asking for an agent to barge his way in and make money and that's what we have here. An opportunist.

It's not an exact science. I mean Gary Neville wasn't that highly rated coming through but if they're loyal, they'll sign anyway and prove themselves. We would be wiser in future to protect our prospects. It's not just youtube that highlights these kids - when you got Sir Alex backing him and saying he'll be a top player for this club - then of course you'll get other clubs sniffing. I think we've shot ourselves in the foot here sadly.
 
Commadus said:
United policy used to be to begin and renew contracts when there was 2 years to go. Essentially the new contract would subsume the existing contract. This would mean the new contract kicking in early than if they wauted till the final year.

It's another Glazer dictat.
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you are referring to first teamer contracts but dont let that stop you
 
Striker10 said:
But personally I don't think you have too. By 18/19 they'll have an idea who could possibly make it but when you leave it down to one year you lose potentially millions . How much will we get if he leaves? It's not good business. I think when your in the public eye and have a year left on your contract, your asking for an agent to barge his way in and make money and that's what we have here. An opportunist.

It's not an exact science. I mean Gary Neville wasn't that highly rated coming through but if they're loyal, they'll sign anyway and prove themselves. We would be wiser in future to protect our prospects. It's not just youtube that highlights these kids - when you got Sir Alex backing him and saying he'll be a top player for this club - then of course you'll get other clubs sniffing. I think we've shot ourselves in the foot here sadly.
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I dont, i think we've more experience than most top teams at bringing young players through. I think if anything can be learned from this, it will be. We've been poaching young players for years, it was only a matter of time before the shoe was on the other foot
 
Commadus said:
But hasn't it happened in this instance. Shouldnt we have tied him down far earlier?
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none of us know the details yet, so we're speculating.

I am assuming that a late decision was going to be made on whether he was going to make it in England or not, which was not guaranteed considering how inconsistent he was for the reserves this year. Players who have had bigger impact at reserve level have moved on.

Everyone has jumped on this "Pogba is world class" boat, but the facts are he's 18 and not a first team regular.
 
Wonder how many know that he's not even in our top3 performers in reserves this season.
 
golden_blunder said:
you are referring to first teamer contracts but dont let that stop you
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He's not even right about first team contracts.

In the last few years there's been a number of first-teamers offered new contracts long before their existing ones ran down.

feck it, in the season just gone there's been at least two examples of this (Hernandez and Smalling)
 
KM said:
Wonder how many know that he's not even in our top3 performers in reserves this season.
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I've only seen smattering of Pogba. Who do you rate higher?

I suppose if his head had been turned it may have affected his performances.
 
I don't blame him for leaving. He's one of the best prospects in the world. Fergie talks him up, brings him overseas, and says he will be involved.

Then he finds himself behind Giggs (he's been shit this season), Park, and Rafael in midfield.

Then some other club comes and throws 20k/week at him.

Are you that surprised?
 
holdsteady said:
I don't blame him for leaving. He's one of the best prospects in the world. Fergie talks him up, brings him overseas, and says he will be involved.

Then he finds himself behind Giggs (he's been shit this season), Park, and Rafael in midfield.

Then some other club comes and throws 20k/week at him.

Are you that surprised?
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Extremely talented lad he is. Not sure about one of the best prospects in the world.
 
So, despite having injuries we didnt trust in him enough. You can look at that both ways. I tend to trust Fergies track record & gut instinct with young players
 
Commadus said:
I've only seen smattering of Pogba. Who do you rate higher?

I suppose if his head had been turned it may have affected his performances.
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From what I've seen, both Petrucci and Keane bettered Pogba's performance this season.
 
KM said:
Wonder how many know that he's not even in our top3 performers in reserves this season.
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Not even Top 5.

Funny how it's all turned out since the FAYC in 2011, luckily there's a lot of talent in that group.
 
I remember Cleverley's contract was allowed to run down too, we didn't intend that to happen with Pogba but it's seemed all along that Raiola has been trying to construct a move away. I'm not too fussed as long as we buy a proper midfielder this Summer. Talent doesn't mean anything if his heart's not here, if rumours are to be believed we are actually offering higher wages, so yeah. I think I'm less bothered than I would be because of Petrucci's season this year.
 
GE said:
Can't believe two of our most promising players have left within 6 months. fecking unreal.

A year ago we all thought the team would be built around these two in years to come.
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Let's put this into context. Morrison was doing fine from a football perspective but that's not the only thing that matters and so we did the best thing for him. Yeah it sucks but I mean shit happens.

With Pogba, as someone mentioned earlier, he has no ties to this club and he wasn't even among the top performers in the reserves this season. He's obviously a gifted player and we know that Sir Alex wanted to keep him but when you've got these agents to deal with, it can make things complicated. A player at that age is more likely to take their agent's word over what others say.

If we lose Petrucci, then I think it would warrant getting bent out of shape. Not with these 2. You gain some, you lose some. We do what we've always done. Move on.
 
KM said:
Wonder how many know that he's not even in our top3 performers in reserves this season.
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That doesn't really matter. I think our squads so fluid that a lot of players stand out. One season don't define a players worth and early in the season he was played out of position. Also we saw Gibson go from reserve player of the year to first teamer back to reserves and he wasn't very rarely the best player among kids, certainly not someone you'd think 'reserve player of the year material'.
 
wish we could edit. What I meant to say was when Gibson returned to the reserves, he didn't look anything special and certainly not someone that stood out among kids...
 
Try pressing the Edit button.
 
holdsteady said:
I don't blame him for leaving. He's one of the best prospects in the world. Fergie talks him up, brings him overseas, and says he will be involved.

Then he finds himself behind Giggs (he's been shit this season), Park, and Rafael in midfield.

Then some other club comes and throws 20k/week at him.

Are you that surprised?
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We've had a lot of injuries and he has been on the bench a fair bit as I've said in the post quoted below:

Damien1990 said:
If Pogba had longer left on his contract I think he may have gone on loan but with his contract situation the focus has been on persuading him to stay by giving him the odd game or so and Fergie probably thought he'd benefit more from playing the odd game this season. If we hadn't got knocked out of the FA Cup, League Cup or had the number of close games in the league that we have done I think he'd have been given more game time.

League Cup: Leeds United 0 - 3 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, came on 46' (score was 0-3 before he came on)
League Cup: Aldershot 0 - 3 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, came on 60' (score was 0-3 before he came on)
Champions League: Manchester United 2 - 0 Otelul Galati - Pogba on bench, didn't come on (it was 1-0 until 86', game still in balance)
League Cup: Manchester United 1 - 2 Crystal Palace - Pogba on bench, came on 64' (score was 0-0 before he came on, 0-1 1 minute after he came on)
Premier League: Manchester United 2 - 3 Blackburn Rovers - Pogba on bench, didn't come on
Premier League: Newcastle United 3 - 0 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, didn't come on
Premier League: Manchester United 3 - 0 Bolton Wanderers - Pogba on bench, didn't come on
FA Cup: Liverpool 2 - 1 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, didn't come on
Premier League: Manchester United 2 - 0 Stoke City - Pogba on bench, came on 72'
Premier League: Chelsea 3 - 3 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, didn't come on
Premier League: Manchester United 2 - 1 Liverpool - Pogba on bench, didn't come on
Europa League: Ajax 0 - 2 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, didn't come on

They're all the games he has been on the bench for. He's played in four but stayed on the bench in eight. Nearly all of those eight were in the balance till the end (or near the end) of the match.
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And more games since that post was made:

Premier League: Manchester United 2 - 0 West Bromwich Albion - Pogba on bench, came on 72'
Europa League: Athletic Bilbao 2 - 1 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, came on 63'
Premier League: Wolverhampton Wanderers 0 - 5 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, came on 58'
Premier League: Blackburn Rovers 0 - 2 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, didn't come on
Premier League: Manchester United 2 - 0 Queens Park Rangers - Pogba on bench, didn't come on
Premier League: Wigan 1 - 0 Manchester United - Pogba on bench, didn't come on

Then Pogba missed the last 5 games through injury. We've also had other players returning from injury who need the game time to get fitness back. It's not been a great season to play him in given our problems on the pitch getting knocked out of the FA and Carling Cup as well as needing to play a strong side in most of the Champions League games if we wanted to progress to the knockout stages. In the Premier League in quite a few games he didn't come off the bench in the game was in the balance so it would have been risky to put him on - Wigan away, QPR at home, Liverpool at home, Blackburn Rovers at home to name a few.

So that is why he hasn't been involved more. You can see that we had the intention to play him more, but the team struggled to get results at times so it wasn't ideal to put him on.
 
The question is, can you miss something you never really had? I suppose it's pretty much like telling me I can never eat fish again; I know it's good for me, and some even argue the fact that it is quite delicious. Still I hardly ever eat it, so my life would go on and I think I would survive if I only remember to buy some D-vitamins.

Pogba never played a vital part in our team, and thus he will not be missed. When you leave as a 19 year old, your heart is not in the club, and thus you will never be one of the truly great players!
 
So he's gone?

If we'd bought a Sneijder and Hazard and our midfield was busting with top class midfielders then i wouldn't be surprised of him leaving but the fact we have couple of spare slots in CM and with his talent he should be competing for a position not thinking of leaving.
 
holdsteady said:
I don't blame him for leaving. He's one of the best prospects in the world. Fergie talks him up, brings him overseas, and says he will be involved.

Then he finds himself behind Giggs (he's been shit this season), Park, and Rafael in midfield.

Then some other club comes and throws 20k/week at him.

Are you that surprised?
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I don't blame him, as it's his choice, and I'm not surprised, but he can't really complain about playing time. He's gotten a fair amount of time this season. You shouldn't really just throw youngsters into the mix with 30+ games a season when they've never played at this level. You gradually phase them in over time.

Calling him the best prospect in the world is too exaggerated as well, considering he's yet to show that at all at a first team level. In all honesty, you can't really say that confidently about a player at his age. There's too much that can happen to them throughout their development, positive and negative.
 
Skywarden said:
I still can't see him getting any more playing time time in Juve than here.
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He will.. Shame really.. But atleast we don't have to seem him kicking balls around in the Premier league. Wonder if a buy back clause is worth putting in seeing as he wants to leave. We'll probably go for a Witsel or Garcia as his replacement.
 
Mainoldo said:
He will.. Shame really.. But atleast we don't have to seem him kicking balls around in the Premier league. Wonder if a buy back clause is worth putting in seeing as he wants to leave. We'll probably go for a Witsel or Garcia as his replacement.
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What makes you think that? Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo have enough talent to be first teamers at United.
 
Mainoldo said:
He will.. Shame really.. But atleast we don't have to seem him kicking balls around in the Premier league. Wonder if a buy back clause is worth putting in seeing as he wants to leave. We'll probably go for a Witsel or Garcia as his replacement.
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We're not selling him so no buyback can be installed in his contract. He's leaving on a free as his contract is up in June. We'll get some compensation as he is U24.
 
To me it comes down to Fergie gambling again. He thought he could restrict Pogba's chances this season and still keep him, and it didn't work.

I can't blame Pogba at all. He'll be 20 soon, and barely managed a dozen appearances this year. In a team that had gaping holes in his position all season long. That's no way to develop, and it tells me that Fergie has no faith in him, despite what he says to the press.

If we'd won nothing this year and actually played the youth, I'd consider it a good transition season. As it stands, Fergie trusted Giggs and Park more than our young players, and therefore I really don't know what we've learned this year. Other than Giggs and Park are no longer good enough, and should never play in central midfield.
 
devilish said:
What makes you think that? Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo have enough talent to be first teamers at United.
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Pirlo would.. The rest of all batting around the same level.. Not really spectacular and i doubt they would have put so much effort in signing him to use him sparingly like we have.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
So when would you have offered him a long-term professional contract as a first-team player? Before he'd even played a full season for our reserves?

It's standard practice for academy players to end up near the end of their contract before being offered a new contract. It would be madness to do it any other way. Too many unknowns in their development and we'd end up stuck with a load of kids on long term contracts, with big wages, that blatantly aren't good enough for United yet impossible to sell on (cg. Denilson at Arsenal)
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I wouldn't have let it get within 12 months that's for sure.

You can talk about other players all you want. Pogba's quite clearly an exceptional talent. Probably the most naturally talented player I've seen at his level for United. He also from all accounts has his head screwed on right. We also stole him from another club by, basically, doing exactly what Juve have done to us.

If you're employed by United especially to look after this sort of thing and couldn't see that a) this lad's good enough that other clubs will be sniffing around, and b) letting his contract run down would leave United in a difficult position in trying to compete with that, then you probably shouldn't be allowed to get yourself dressed in the morning.

I don't understand what the point was in knicking him from Le Havre if we never had any intention to protect against the same thing happening to us should he develop as planned. We'd have been better off keeping an eye on him and stepping in now as Juve have.
 
noodlehair said:
I wouldn't have let it get within 12 months that's for sure.

You can talk about other players all you want. Pogba's quite clearly an exceptional talent. Probably the most naturally talented player I've seen at his level for United. He also from all accounts has his head screwed on right. We also stole him from another club by, basically, doing exactly what Juve have done to us.

If you're employed by United especially to look after this sort of thing and couldn't see that a) this lad's good enough that other clubs will be sniffing around, and b) letting his contract run down would leave United in a difficult position in trying to compete with that, then you probably shouldn't be allowed to get yourself dressed in the morning.

I don't understand what the point was in knicking him from Le Havre if we never had any intention to protect against the same thing happening to us should he develop as planned. We'd have been better off keeping an eye on him and stepping in now as Juve have.
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So True :(
 
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