Phil Jones in midfield revisited
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Phil Jones face takes orders off no man. It does what it wants.
6 interceptions and 2 tackles is exactly why he was picked in that position. It was by no means a perfect performance, but we paid £28 million for a player who doesn't put in perfect performances in DM either so lets give Jones a break. He did what he was there to do most of the time breaking up play and he passed the ball simply and quite accurately. He did a very fine job
He was very good last night. I find Jones a bit of an odd player. He seems to excel in positions other than his natural or the one he was supposedly bought for. He offers a decent cover at right back, I find him terrible at centre half largely because of his positioning and reading of the game, yet he mostly tends to do a very good job in midfield as a destroyer. That performance yesterday was better than any I have seen from Fellaini in a defensive midfield role in his time in England. On the basis of what we have seen of Jones in a destroyer type role, Fellaini really has to do more to justify his selection other being the manager's pet.
He also showed a very cool head yesterday, lovely stuff. Just stay fit Phil my son
He also showed a very cool head yesterday, lovely stuff. Just stay fit Phil my son
Should he have done a man-to-man job on Toure? He's a Centre-Back for me who will be used to specialist jobs now and again in midfield. I mean last Sunday we didn't even succeed in kicking any City players, never mind control midfield.
Also seems to do exactly what Fellaini does makes you wonder why we got Fellaini, all we needed was a wig.
I'm not having a go at you, but I don't understand this point of view. If he's not naturally good at being a centreback but is naturally good at being a midfielder, why do people insist on talking about his natural position as being anything other than the one he excels in?
Ferguson, Allardyce, Hodgson and Capello all played him in central midfield more often than in central defence. The only manager who played him exclusively at the back was Stuart Pearce.
I agree with Pogue, that was the best I'd seen him play as a defensive midfielder by a long way. In the past he's just run around like an even more pointless version of Scott Parker but last night he was actually reading the game and breaking up Liverpool's attacks more than any other player. I didn't notice him doing anything particularly wrong all night.
He still looked like a defender playing in midfield though. Everything good he did was still basically what a centreback would do, just that he was doing it in front of the actual centrebacks. Liverpool also seemed to have loads of space near our box all the time, though I'm not sure that was his fault so much as other players repeatedly being panicky idiots on the edge of our area.
Had a pretty good game overall, but he's a centreback.
He still looked like a defender playing in midfield though. Everything good he did was still basically what a centreback would do, just that he was doing it in front of the actual centrebacks. Liverpool also seemed to have loads of space near our box all the time, though I'm not sure that was his fault so much as other players repeatedly being panicky idiots on the edge of our area.
Had a pretty good game overall, but he's a centreback.
Thats too kind.
Had another great game in midfield.
It is. Should read "I'm a fat moany 35 year old smoking 20 a day"
See, I didn't think it was "great" at all.
He played well going by what you'd expect of a defender playing in midfield. Pretty much as well as you could reasonably expect someone to play in that situation. If he was an actual midfielder I would have considered it a limited performance and expected a lot more. We effectively surrendered the middle third of the pitch, in a home game.
I still don't know what these "great" midfield performances from Phil Jones that people refer to are. The only game in which he's bossed the midfield was at home to Wolves, during the season they were pathetic and relegated, and even in that game Carrick was the best player on the pitch.
If the idea is for him to fill in some kind of occasional specific role there then last night was a promising sign that he can, but he's got far too much potential to be wasted as some utility alternative to having an actual midfield option in order to paper over cracks. He has the ability to push for a place as one of our first choice centrebacks, if he ever actually gets to play at centreback for more than one game out of every three he's picked for.
Every year my mother in law gets me a little Man United desk calendar for Christmas. The picture for October is of Jones. He really isnt the easiest person to look at.
I fear he may get a game in midfield tomorrow. Carrick - Fellaini - Jones.
Boring football.
i think the likes of tomorrows game is one of the few occasions jones in the middle isnt a bad thing
Yeah, I know.
According to The Telegraph Moyes is considering starting him at CB alongside Vidic. I hope that he does so we can all reach the point of realisation that Jones is the finest CB in England and should be starting there all the time for us. All this moving him about the pitch is just delaying the inevitable.
And how would the Telegraph know that?
I will take boring tomorrow night..a nice boring 0-0 or snatching a late winner.
I will take boring tomorrow night..a nice boring 0-0 or snatching a late winner.
How does anyone know anything, through the acquisition of information perhaps?
Perhaps they just made it up to titillate their readership, such excitement does such a sentence make!
Maybe he starts at CB and maybe he does not, only the fullness of time will tell.
Perhaps they just made it up to titillate their readership, such excitement does such a sentence make!
Maybe he starts at CB and maybe he does not, only the fullness of time will tell.
Likewise. Though I tend to agree with him on Phil Jones. I was surprised there wasn't more criticism of him (or the decision to play him there) in midweek, though I suppose us winning had something to do with that. Even for a defender playing in midfield I thought there were quite a few moments where he was on the edge of his own box and blatantly didn't have a clue what space to occupy or who to pick up and ultimately it left one of their men free in the box. It's bound to mess him up if he switches about position as frequently as he does.
I agree with what Pogue said before about there being dozens of top players that were equally capable of playing in midfield or defence, but they didn't establish themselves as great players by flip-flopping about in various roles. If you look at the more recent examples of Hierro or (more appropriately) or Desailly being equally at home in either role, they didn't play in all manners of positions and excel in each. They simply started off as midfielders and dropped back later in their career. Someone has made the point that Robson played in defence in the early part of his career and moved forward, and there are surely hundreds of great players that started off in a different role to one they later made their name in, but that's different to being a utility man.
I don't think anyone wants him to become a utility man but it does seem like it could go that way. His performances at right back are already deteriorating and I think part of that is down to him being moved about a lot, whereas when he first looked good on the right it came about due to that essentially being his primary position at United (in the beginning).
I agree with what Pogue said before about there being dozens of top players that were equally capable of playing in midfield or defence, but they didn't establish themselves as great players by flip-flopping about in various roles. If you look at the more recent examples of Hierro or (more appropriately) or Desailly being equally at home in either role, they didn't play in all manners of positions and excel in each. They simply started off as midfielders and dropped back later in their career. Someone has made the point that Robson played in defence in the early part of his career and moved forward, and there are surely hundreds of great players that started off in a different role to one they later made their name in, but that's different to being a utility man.
I don't think anyone wants him to become a utility man but it does seem like it could go that way. His performances at right back are already deteriorating and I think part of that is down to him being moved about a lot, whereas when he first looked good on the right it came about due to that essentially being his primary position at United (in the beginning).
If it's really Fellaini, Carrick and Jones in the middle, I'd quite like to see Carrick in a more advanced role, he hasn't been able to show that side of his game but now we are using Jones in a DM position and have the microphone...
Brings back Roma memories
DR---DC---DC---DL
--Fellaini - Jones
------Carrick----
--LW-----------RW--
--------ST--
Brings back Roma memories
DR---DC---DC---DL
--Fellaini - Jones
------Carrick----
--LW-----------RW--
--------ST--
I suspect Moyes is going to make the same mistake in about 4 weeks and start Jones in midfield in a big game straight after an injury lay off.
Amongst other things Jones' rustiness cost us in the Chelsea game. I expect the same tonight.
Amongst other things Jones' rustiness cost us in the Chelsea game. I expect the same tonight.
If it's really Fellaini, Carrick and Jones in the middle, I'd quite like to see Carrick in a more advanced role, he hasn't been able to show that side of his game but now we are using Jones in a DM position and have the microphone...
Brings back Roma memories
DR---DC---DC---DL
--Fellaini - Jones
------Carrick----
--LW-----------RW--
--------ST--
That's incredibly negative and not mobile at all.
It was month's ago, and I never promoted the mobility/creativeness of it, the idea was it's a sturdy midfield.
Maybe that's what we need at the moment, clearly we have to change something. Three attackers should be enough if they are Rooney, RvP and Mata.
Don't tell Moyes, the more strikers he puts on the more we'll win by
for me any team is as good as their defensive, when we back to drawing board with SAF several times, he always did defense and used that as his platform to build on.I didn't realise it was a month ago, I don't usuallt check the posting date.
Don't tell Moyes, the more strikers he puts on the more we'll win by
I'm the type of fan who is more impressed by consecutive clean sheets than high-scoring results.
this is one of the few fixtures it wouldn't be a bad idea having him there.
typically he's out injured for a change
typically he's out injured for a change