Hes an RB if anything. Nowhere near the tenacity to do a good job at CB yet.
Phil Jones in midfield revisited
- Thread starter Brwned
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Hes an RB if anything. Nowhere near the tenacity to do a good job at CB yet.
Exactly. Think Charlton's "comparison" went as far as saying they have similar running styles. Don't think it went any farther than that. Fans took it to a different level.
That was clear from day one. In general, comparisons are always OTT and not helping the player at all
Jones is a defender and should play there. I understand why Fergie brought him on but for his development, it isnt really helping as he just doesnt play well enough
Couldn't agree more! Not only that, playing him in stupid positions will actually be detrimental to his development. I don't know if cleverly was on the bench yesterday, if he was, I dont for the life of me understand why he didn't come on for ando.
Jones is a defender, simple as that. He should never play anywhere near in midfield!
See him as a RB. Which is a bit of a problem as we got probably the best RB in the league on that position already who has about 10 to 12 years ahead of him if he stays here.
Guess he could also develop into a defensive midfielder but as Fergie said, we have never used holding midfielders and probably never will and as for now Jones lacks passing ability or positional awarness to play in CM.
CB? I don't know, I dont think he is airially dominant enough to play there.
Guess he could also develop into a defensive midfielder but as Fergie said, we have never used holding midfielders and probably never will and as for now Jones lacks passing ability or positional awarness to play in CM.
CB? I don't know, I dont think he is airially dominant enough to play there.
Our worst performance in years.....oh i Know, what a disasterous win, if only we could have lost 6-1 against our most hated rivals..
I wouldn't say that results are always great indicators of the performance, personally. Particularly when half of those goals came in the last 4 minutes or so. Never mind the quality of opposition factor.
Yeah ok, not that you are over reacting or anything,,,,,,,
About a year ago Jones put in a string of stunning performances in midfield when partnered with Carrick. I'd like to see it tried again, and see no reason to write him off as a midfielder when he has had far, far worse performances at CB than anything he's produced in midfield.
Far too much doom and gloom about him, he's 20, younger than Scott Wooton and look at the experience he already has. There's way too much game by game analysis of young players, time will polish his game, right now he's nowhere near the player he'll ultimately become.
There's two separate issues here, us not knowing where his best position is is one, he's young, clearly a good player and had great work rate, mentality. Whether he ends up as a centreback, right back or centre midfielder he'll likely be a very good player. The issue I think the thread was started about is him playing attacking midfield for us again which is a position that he clearly isn't suited too and which has never seemed logical for him to play an I think that's more about our use of him rather than his talent.
FFS he only just came back from injury, he had some great outings last year, his role in midfield is grooming him to add a bit of skill to his future centre back role. I really have a problem with all the muppets and top reds who trash SAF and the team, be careful what you wish for
Can't see Bobby elevating any player - no matter how good he is - to the level of Duncan Edwards overall. Bobby still idolises him.
I wouldn't write off Jones as a midfielder just yet. Before anyone overreacts I'm not suggesting he's the next Zidane or Makelele. But he could turn in tidy shifts as a defensive midfielder for us over time.
I have a horrible feeling that he might play against City in midfield.
Probably too soon for him, but I think Ferguson might decided he's the only way to combat Yaya.
Probably too soon for him, but I think Ferguson might decided he's the only way to combat Yaya.
That's what I'm thinking too, ninja.
I reckon Fergie is going to play a very defensive side, hoping for the draw but maybe sneaking a late smash and grab win. With that in mind, I see Jones back with Carrick. The "3-1" would likely be
Cleverley/Rooney/Young
RvP
Just enough for a counterattack but not too much to leave a struggling back line exposed to City.
I'm not going to argue that Jones can handle Yaya Toure, but he may be the option we have given the current state of our squad. I really would love to have seen Ando report for duty v Toure, but we're going to have to wait another few months for that.
Would rather have him in midfield against City than Giggs or Fletcher. Give the younger lads a chance I'm diss appointed regarding injury to Anderson but if it goes to highlight anything it's that we have a need for the next generation in midfield.
There's a real possibility that Fergie's actually going to pair Jones up with Carrick, with Rooney/Clev/Young in front of him and RVP as the lone striker.
I don't now if I can bear watch such a game.
I don't now if I can bear watch such a game.
That's ok if jones actually plays alongside carrick, so far whenever he's played in a 3 for us he always ends up as the most attacking player which just doesn't work. Although we've not see it enough for me to try it in such a big game.
It would certaintly reduce the chances of this becoming zombie-event of the year.
Why? Waste of his talents.
Ronnie Johnsen did it to decent effect in a few games around 1997 I remember (in Europe against Porto and in the league against Liverpool for example)
Although I think you're right about Jones
I can see him as the sort of midfield that plays much like a 3rd center back, in the sort of team set out to win 1-0. And I can see him, as a 20 year old, developing his game into that of a top class midfielder.
But so far he hasn't really had the run of games in midfield to get that chance.
But so far he hasn't really had the run of games in midfield to get that chance.
We really can't be sure yet what Jonesey's talents are.
He looked really, really good as a RB last season but not as good as Rafael now. Questions may be asked as to whether he's tough enough to be a central defender. I'll concede he doesn't look like a defensive midfielder, but how many 21 year olds really look the part of a defensive midfielder at that age? Some, but not many.
The best way forward for Jones is to try him out in different positions, wherever Fergie needs him. It will not only teach him the game, but build his character.
Imo Jones is a bit too industrious.
Needs to calm down a bit sometimes in situations.
Needs to calm down a bit sometimes in situations.
Agreed.
A year and a half ago, he was a master stroke by SAF but now he's an average player who can't do anything with a football
I wouldnt mind him playing with Carrick in a middle 2 just behind Rooney. Not as an AM though.
He's not a fecking midfielder.
Fact.
Fact.
Of course he's not a midfielder, and anyone who said he was a viable option there was just being stupid. But he's clearly going to be a class defender in a few years given the right training, so people need to relax.
Its like when we started playing Alan Smith in midfield because he had "passion" and "work rate" while having little else to qualify him as a midfielder.
Quite agree....I think he's going to be a class act at the back.
So let's not turn him into a fecking utility player.
He's a natural defender. End of.
IMO it is not helpful if he gets picked in midfield. He doesnt do well and cant build up consistancy or confidence. Play him as CB or RB and then I'm sure he'll grow into a fantastic defender
Hasn't he played more games in midfield then he has at the back?
That's what I don't get. He played in midfield for Blackburn, he's played there for us, he's played there for England.
Why are some of you so against him being a midfielder. I'd much rather he play there than CB (after the Blackburn fiasco)
That's what I don't get. He played in midfield for Blackburn, he's played there for us, he's played there for England.
Why are some of you so against him being a midfielder. I'd much rather he play there than CB (after the Blackburn fiasco)
Personally speaking having watched him play in midfield if we signed him to fill the gap Hargreaves' injury left then I'm sorry that was a mistake. He may be rash at times at centre-half but he has looked both convincing and strong at times there something he has never truly been in midfield barring one game last season away at Villa.
Totally agree, thought he'd be given at least a game back before he became a fall guy.
He's being played in MF because he's been out too long to stick him into an already slightly dodgy back line.
He came on ahead of Cleverly because he offers more protection and is a better header of the ball from set pieces which we were being murdered on.
Some of the comments in this thread are a bit OTT.
He was fecking brilliant in midfield against Villa, Wolves and QPR. Not the highest quality of opponents admittedly, but he was only 19 at the time. QPR especially was probably the best he's ever played for us, and had this entire forum cooing. That was when the (admittedly wildly premature) comparisons with Bryan Robson started getting made.
Seeing him play in midfield, every time, has convinced me he'll never be good in that position. I'm adamant, as I've rarely been with young players, that he will never, ever, be a consistantly good option for us in CM (of course he could have the odd fluke good performance due to a set of factors). His awareness, positioning, technique, first touch and passing are just way too poor for him to develop in any kind of way for a central position like that. He doesn't have the qualities required from a DM, an AM or a box to box, and his dynamism and ability to surge forwards now and again can't hide it.
And I'm not trying to be especially harsh on the kid, I very much like him and enjoy seeing his desire, but he just does not have to attributes to develop in that position, I'm certain of it.
I think he could, in time, become a good CB in the Terry mold (when Terry used to be a football player), all action/physical monster kind of player, who would be very good when partnered with a more tactically astute CB.
And I'm not trying to be especially harsh on the kid, I very much like him and enjoy seeing his desire, but he just does not have to attributes to develop in that position, I'm certain of it.
I think he could, in time, become a good CB in the Terry mold (when Terry used to be a football player), all action/physical monster kind of player, who would be very good when partnered with a more tactically astute CB.
For all his talents, it's really hard to see where Jones will fit in for us in the long term. His game is best suited in defence, but he's too raw to be played there now as he'll cost us points with his tactical naivety.
Really think he needs to be loaned out for him to get more game time.
Edit: He might just turn out to be like O'Shea, never really holding down a proper spot in the team and just playing wherever we need him to.
Really think he needs to be loaned out for him to get more game time.
Edit: He might just turn out to be like O'Shea, never really holding down a proper spot in the team and just playing wherever we need him to.