I'd say its the latter as SAF said that a few times himself
(could be wrong..just going on my memory of Keane @ Forest)
(could be wrong..just going on my memory of Keane @ Forest)
Phil Jones
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I think you're right, Jones just strikes me as naive and over eager as a CB. He just wants to win the ball back as soon as possible, that's one thing that stuck out from the Basel game at OT. He pushed up so high and got sucked into areas which left Rio vulnerable one on one. He will learn here, I think he's relied on his physical attributes for most of his career and as I said earlier I doubt he was brought up at Blackburn with an appreciation of the tactical nuances of the game. I've learnt a lot about defending (I'm a CB myself, well I was) from watching Rio and Vidic, Jones will learn a lot training with them, Rio especially.
Jones has a bit of David Luiz about him -too agressive and eager at times to win "unwinnable balls" and try to compress space too much when sometimes its better to hold your position.
It all boils down to decision making and you improve your decision making hopefully by learning from your mistakes and choice words from experienced players.
It all boils down to decision making and you improve your decision making hopefully by learning from your mistakes and choice words from experienced players.
Jones is 19, Luiz is 24, 5 years is a massive difference in terms of experience. Smalling at the moment is the one I'm more excited by defensively, though as the Basel game showed he still has learning to do.
Nonsense, hes 19. Luiz is a different kettle of fish.
Just because there's an age difference doesn't make him wrong. Jones at the moment does have many of the same strengths and weaknesses which Luiz has.
The age difference does obviously mean we should hope Jones has ironed out those flaws (or most of them at least) by the time he's Luiz's age. And to be fair, even 24 is still fairly young in central defensive terms.
Yep. my points exactly but it seems some like to argue another point all together.
I never disagreed at all, as MadDogg said 24 is young in defensive terms which makes Jones at 19 a complete baby. I'd be worried if at 19 Jones was the complete package because the only area he is lacking in is tactical awareness/positioning, if he had that added to his current game at 19 then a lot of CB's should consider retiring.
I think Jones is out to prove himself. The difference between Jones & Luiz is (so far) Jones' enthusiasm has been slightly more measured, and Luiz' rogue approach has more often than not been a major factor in Chelsea conceding a goal or losing a game. Unless I'm very much mistaken, I can't fault Jones too much for an important goal we have conceded, maybe the odd couple where he could have done better, but no calamitous errors.
Also, Jones has done unbelievable things that JT & Rio would be proud of. Luiz has done some good things, but mainly at the attacking end of the pitch. Jones has done amazing things all over the pitch. As far as I'm concerned, big Phillip is ready for an entire career at CB, and a bloody good one at that. Luiz isn't even in his league imo.
I rate Jones as potentially as important as Rooney in terms of transfers in the past 10 years, I just think he can be a rock for us for the next 10-15 years. I would even go as far as to say that had Arsenal or City signed him he may have won them a league or two, particularly Arsenal. Not only did we gain a terrific player, but we also stopped our biggest rivals getting a huge asset. I believe he can be as big as Tony Adams & John Terry for us.
Also, Jones has done unbelievable things that JT & Rio would be proud of. Luiz has done some good things, but mainly at the attacking end of the pitch. Jones has done amazing things all over the pitch. As far as I'm concerned, big Phillip is ready for an entire career at CB, and a bloody good one at that. Luiz isn't even in his league imo.
I rate Jones as potentially as important as Rooney in terms of transfers in the past 10 years, I just think he can be a rock for us for the next 10-15 years. I would even go as far as to say that had Arsenal or City signed him he may have won them a league or two, particularly Arsenal. Not only did we gain a terrific player, but we also stopped our biggest rivals getting a huge asset. I believe he can be as big as Tony Adams & John Terry for us.
What?
In terms of spectacular tackles and blocks.
Jones is great at full back and in midfield but he's been an absolute disaster at times in central defense this year.
Should not play in defence for us again this season. Each time he has been abysmal. Basle, Blackburn and tonight sum it up when he's in there.
He is not a centre half. Maybe he will be one day but I doubt it.
As a centre-half he's been underwhelming, to put it kindly. He needs to learn and quickly.
He's been brilliant at right back though. It's only in central defense where he looks clueless right now. Partially/completely responsible for all 3 goals tonight.
Tbh an injured Vidic could do better than him at CB right now.
Yeah, i mean central defence of course. He just lacks in so many departments for that position right now and for him to play there is too big a risk. Carrick would probably be a better option.
2nd own goal for him this season, no?
Learning. The free-kick was him being a fraction late in reading, had he not lost his feet he'd have won the ball. The O.G. was poor from him and Lindegaard.
Give the lad a fecking break. He played pretty well tonight. He was very unlucky with the OG. He is 19 years old.
He's never been completely convincing at centre back since joining United. His best spells of form came at right full back. He played well at times in the centre of the park too.
He makes so many poor decisions though and that gets brutally exposed at centre half.
For all the talk about him being a natural defender, I don't half see a number of deficiencies. Chief amongst them is his weakness in the air.
He makes so many poor decisions though and that gets brutally exposed at centre half.
For all the talk about him being a natural defender, I don't half see a number of deficiencies. Chief amongst them is his weakness in the air.
I hope Smalling/Evans returns quickly, Jones has been fantastic as DM or RB but has struggled so far as a CB.
No communication from the keeper, reacted late and badly. Its hard for him to bed in at CB when he doesnt have a consistant partner at the back. But positionally he's not as secure as Smalling
His future is at midfield. Without Vidic's guidance in central defense he has been poor.
He is getting a lot of leeway due to his style of play, but if it was Evans who had kept his standard in defense he'd get shot down on here.
He is getting a lot of leeway due to his style of play, but if it was Evans who had kept his standard in defense he'd get shot down on here.
He was at fault for all 3 goals, as well as Blackburn's 2nd. Thankfully it wasn't Evans as he'd be written off.
I don't know he's got a good leap on him, he won an awful lot of headers against Crouch for instance despite the consistent fouling unfortunately the one he didn't win ended up in the goal. A lot of him being beaten in the air tonight can be attributed to positioning.
His positioning is so poor, and he is constantly beaten in the air. A liability in central defence at the moment.
Jacob got laughed at when he wanted Carrick at CB and Jones in midfield, well I would rather have it that way now.
He gets a lot more leeway than DDG.
The only difference - position aside - is nationality.
They're both promising. They're also a liability at times.
The only difference - position aside - is nationality.
They're both promising. They're also a liability at times.
He's better off at RB or even midfield, at least for now. Some poor performances at CB I have to see, even considering his age
I think you could be right. His starting positions are so poor at times. He constantly gets caught under the ball.
Fair comment I'd say
Another shocker from him. He is now looking a liability at the back.
It's extremely difficult becoming a top class cb in the English league when you are as short as him. He's got a decent jump but he lacks timing and positioning and is always at a disadvantage versus taller players. Like others have said, he's a very promising rb and he's done okey in central midfield but he is a huge liability as a centre back. Smalling is a miles better option as a cb.
I wish we'd stop trying to play him in midfield which is where half the issue comes from.
Jones has played more than anyone else this season, he's 19 years old. he's been forced to play all over the park because of injuries, he's playing alongside a not so solid Rio Ferdinand and behind a sometimes non existent midfield, cut him some slack.
He was shit tonight
Playing him in midfield made him forget how to defend? That's bollocks.
He was a liability at centre-back from day 1 and looked far to adventurous. He's a midfielder through and through, that much is clear now.